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Yggdrasil_67
06-17-2016, 08:36 AM
I'm pretty sure some of you samurais are also wondering what happened to the Oni and why it's not on the website anymore since E3. At first I thought they had replaced the it with the Kensei, which I wasn't too happy about to be honest since I'm not a fan of the nodachi, but after watching some gameplay a few more times it would seem the Oni is still in the game.

We can clearly see that this guy at 6:00 is an Oni.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iuW5rFnaG0&t=6m

It's also in the E3 demo gameplay, at 2:45 and also at 4:22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK5wRNPj2tk&t=2m45s

Also, if you look back at gameplay from last year, you can see that the Oni's upper stance is different from the Kensei. The Oni adopts a 'Jōdan' stance where he lifts his sword above his head as if he was about to strike, while the Keinsei's upper stance is similar to the Warden's. Their attack animations are also different, which could indicate that they are indeed an entirely different class. Hopefully this clears any doubt anyone may have about this.

Or maybe I'm wrong and they did in fact cut the Oni out of the game and they are just filler enemies in the campaign, but that seems unlikely to me now.

Either way, I'm looking forward to the reveal of other classes for all three factions.

Fatal-Feit
06-17-2016, 10:58 AM
The only reason why I may still cling to them cutting the Warden and Oni is because they both have been replaced on the cover while the knight with the flail got a reskin to fit their more bombastic designs. Although, originally, the knight with the flail looked very similar to the other classes, so maybe they simply changed his design to appear more standalone and kept him because the flail was unique enough for the cover.

premiumart
06-17-2016, 05:23 PM
I dont think these heroes got cut from the game cause that would set them back quite a bit in terms of progress woudlnt it ?

Also both the Warden AND the Oni are all over the story campaign. I dont think they got cut they just took a step back for now i guess.

handheld brando
06-17-2016, 05:27 PM
The only reason why I may still cling to them cutting the Warden and Oni is because they both have been replaced on the cover while the knight with the flail got a reskin to fit their more bombastic designs. Although, originally, the knight with the flail looked very similar to the other classes, so maybe they simply changed his design to appear more standalone and kept him because the flail was unique enough for the cover.

The Warden is definitely not cut from the game and the Oni isn't either.

Fatal-Feit
06-17-2016, 07:00 PM
The Warden is definitely not cut from the game and the Oni isn't either.

Thanks for the confirmation, homie. :) This is very good news, as I really dig the Warden and Oni designs and would be devastated if they were gone.

MisterWillow
06-17-2016, 10:43 PM
I dont think these heroes got cut from the game cause that would set them back quite a bit in terms of progress woudlnt it ?

Also both the Warden AND the Oni are all over the story campaign. I dont think they got cut they just took a step back for now i guess.

That's my view of it. I feel like they wanted to introduce us to new Hero/classes, but don't want to do it too fast, not only for the crafty grins they're all probably wearing for making us sweat, but also because if you throw out a bunch of information like that all at once, it might result in information overload in the public.

I do wish they would have shown gameplay of the Flail Knight instead of the Warden, since we've already seen him and because it would give some insight in how shields will really work (for that Hero/class anyway), but maybe we'll see more at PSX, or Gamescom.

waraidako
06-18-2016, 09:09 PM
I thought the Oni was the guy with the kanabō.

Altair_Snake
06-18-2016, 09:18 PM
The Oni style appears in the Viking Campaign, right after the Raider opens the gate. One easy way to spot the style is that he has a neutral stance.

Willaguy2010
06-18-2016, 09:18 PM
I thought the Oni was the guy with the kanabō.

The Oni is the slim samurai with the katana. As opposed to the fat guy with a Kanabo, of whom we know not the name. Then there's the Kensei who has a nodachi.

Dead1y-Derri
06-19-2016, 12:45 AM
That's my view of it. I feel like they wanted to introduce us to new Hero/classes, but don't want to do it too fast, not only for the crafty grins they're all probably wearing for making us sweat, but also because if you throw out a bunch of information like that all at once, it might result in information overload in the public.

I do wish they would have shown gameplay of the Flail Knight instead of the Warden, since we've already seen him and because it would give some insight in how shields will really work (for that Hero/class anyway), but maybe we'll see more at PSX, or Gamescom.

I'm hoping we'll see more at Gamescom this year or PSX as while I loved all the For Honor info released, it makes me want even more :D

Killerbrian26
06-19-2016, 02:34 AM
I think the reason the Oni isn't on the website currently is because they are only showing the classes you play in the campaign right now, and instead of the Oni being the Samurai campaign person, it's the Kensei. EXTREMELY doubtful he was cut because he is in a lot of the campaign gameplay demo.

MisterWillow
06-19-2016, 06:17 AM
I'm hoping we'll see more at Gamescom this year or PSX as while I loved all the For Honor info released, it makes me want even more :D

It's like a drug. You get a taste and all you can think about is the next hit....

Oh, God, Ubi, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!!!?? :eek::p

AvarusTyrannus
06-19-2016, 07:01 AM
The Oni is the slim samurai with the katana. As opposed to the fat guy with a Kanabo, of whom we know not the name. Then there's the Kensei who has a nodachi.

They gave the Kanabo warrior a name. It was "Shugoki" or something along those lines. I'm spelling it how I would guess it's spelled, but I really have no clue. Geoff Ellenor can be heard naming him/it during the viking campaign video with commentary.

HideoshiKaze.TV
06-20-2016, 12:12 AM
The Oni is not cut from the game. It is now known as "Orochi".

The Kanabo chosen is known as Shugouki, which is a tank class with unblockable heavy attacks but easily countered with doges and guard breaks.

MisterWillow
06-20-2016, 02:18 AM
The Kanabo chosen is known as Shugouki, which is a tank class with unblockable heavy attacks but easily countered with doges and guard breaks.

Unblockable? Maybe for singleplayer, but it'd be a mistake for that to carry over to multiplayer, I think.

Killerbrian26
06-20-2016, 02:22 AM
Unblockable? Maybe for singleplayer, but it'd be a mistake for that to carry over to multiplayer, I think.

If you see any of the attacks, they're very telegraphed and really slow. I was watching one person struggle with it because he never dodged his attacks or never counter-attacked him. I think in multiplayer, he would only be good as a noobstomper or in tight corridors where people don't have the room to dodge.

HideoshiKaze.TV
06-20-2016, 02:24 AM
The Shugouki and tank classes from what I was told, will all have unblockable heavy attacks in MP. But this can change.

MisterWillow
06-20-2016, 03:47 AM
If you see any of the attacks, they're very telegraphed and really slow. I was watching one person struggle with it because he never dodged his attacks or never counter-attacked him. I think in multiplayer, he would only be good as a noobstomper or in tight corridors where people don't have the room to dodge.

Or walking up behind someone occupied by an enemy (or two) and beating them down before they know what hit them...


The Shugouki and tank classes from what I was told, will all have unblockable heavy attacks in MP. But this can change.

Maybe if the chip damage from blocking a heavy strike were more than other classes, that would be fine, but making them unblockable sounds ludicrous.

HideoshiKaze.TV
06-20-2016, 06:15 AM
Yea it does. Raider also has unblockable heavy's as well lol.

Yggdrasil_67
06-20-2016, 07:03 AM
I'd be okay with unblockable heavy attacks if they are slow/telegraphed enough; it doesn't seem that hard to avoid normal heavy attacks, although they do in fact deal some chip damage.

MisterWillow
06-20-2016, 07:10 AM
Yea it does. Raider also has unblockable heavy's as well lol.

Were they performed by pressing something other than R2? Cause I was getting my heavy attacks blocked during the demo.

HideoshiKaze.TV
06-20-2016, 07:16 AM
You hold back on the left stick while chaining a 2nd or 3rd heavy attack. It'll glow orange when being done.

You can only do it left or right.

AvarusTyrannus
06-20-2016, 06:43 PM
Unblockable? Maybe for singleplayer, but it'd be a mistake for that to carry over to multiplayer, I think.
The UI warning for it seemed pretty clear, the giant red exclamation point pretty much screams DODGE!, some classes that have special attacks that follow up on a dodge might doubly be able to take advantage of the opening. The real tricky one is the Kensei's feint attack, does a number of spins and then swings hard at your right side. The UI doesn't prompt for when the attack is coming, you just have to have had it done to you enough to know which of the swings is a feint and which the attack. Could be even more useful if that is an attack you can cancel part way.


You hold back on the left stick while chaining a 2nd or 3rd heavy attack. It'll glow orange when being done.

You can only do it left or right.
The Raider also seemed to have a light attack combo that bashed the opponent in the head with the butt of the axe, it applied a stun effect similar to the hilt bash some of the Chosen used on me or the wall slam the Raider could do.

MisterWillow
06-21-2016, 06:14 AM
You hold back on the left stick while chaining a 2nd or 3rd heavy attack. It'll glow orange when being done.

You can only do it left or right.

Interesting...


The UI warning for it seemed pretty clear, the giant red exclamation point pretty much screams DODGE!, some classes that have special attacks that follow up on a dodge might doubly be able to take advantage of the opening.

Right, and that's all well and good in singleplayer, when you can turn the difficulty down if you need to and the AI will presumably have at least minor attack patterns, even at higher difficulties.

In multiplayer, though, I'm thinking of ways an unblockable attack could be abused. Say, you're preoccupied with an opponent or two and a Shugoki walks up behind you and bops you on the head for an easy third of your life gone. Or the entire enemy team of Shugoki, get teamed up on, and you find yourself unable to dodge out of the way of every attack for one reason or another. Things like that.

Maybe it will be a case of players learning effective ways to counter things like that over time, and since we haven't seen that class in multiplayer we can't accurately comment on it anyway, but I feel like extra chip damage from that class specifically would be better than taking all the damage no matter what.


The Raider also seemed to have a light attack combo that bashed the opponent in the head with the butt of the axe, it applied a stun effect similar to the hilt bash some of the Chosen used on me or the wall slam the Raider could do.

That I did notice. I enjoyed knocking the sense out of Saburo very much with it. :D

AvarusTyrannus
06-21-2016, 07:39 AM
Interesting...



Right, and that's all well and good in singleplayer, when you can turn the difficulty down if you need to and the AI will presumably have at least minor attack patterns, even at higher difficulties.

In multiplayer, though, I'm thinking of ways an unblockable attack could be abused. Say, you're preoccupied with an opponent or two and a Shugoki walks up behind you and bops you on the head for an easy third of your life gone. Or the entire enemy team of Shugoki, get teamed up on, and you find yourself unable to dodge out of the way of every attack for one reason or another. Things like that.

Maybe it will be a case of players learning effective ways to counter things like that over time, and since we haven't seen that class in multiplayer we can't accurately comment on it anyway, but I feel like extra chip damage from that class specifically would be better than taking all the damage no matter what.



That I did notice. I enjoyed knocking the sense out of Saburo very much with it. :D

Well, it's interesting that blocking alone does not totally prevent you from taking damage any more. Only a parry will do that, and give you an opening. The chip damage bonus for the Shugoki would have to be substantial to make it worth the effort. Seems to me that the hypotheticals you are concerned about could be avoided by either spatial awareness or not being a total goober. Picking a fight with more than one guard break character, letting someone get you from behind...plus if the Shugoki has a guard break, the Kensei has it, the Raider has it...for all we know every hero might be getting a guard break.

MisterWillow
06-21-2016, 08:19 AM
Well, it's interesting that blocking alone does not totally prevent you from taking damage any more. Only a parry will do that, and give you an opening.

I thought heavy attacks always granted chip damage.


The chip damage bonus for the Shugoki would have to be substantial to make it worth the effort. Seems to me that the hypotheticals you are concerned about could be avoided by either spatial awareness or not being a total goober.

Like I said, it could be a matter of people spending time with the game and finding effective ways of countering something like the Shugoki.


Picking a fight with more than one guard break character, letting someone get you from behind...plus if the Shugoki has a guard break, the Kensei has it, the Raider has it...for all we know every hero might be getting a guard break.

I figured that was going to be the case anyway.

HideoshiKaze.TV
06-22-2016, 04:32 AM
Interesting...



Right, and that's all well and good in singleplayer, when you can turn the difficulty down if you need to and the AI will presumably have at least minor attack patterns, even at higher difficulties.

In multiplayer, though, I'm thinking of ways an unblockable attack could be abused. Say, you're preoccupied with an opponent or two and a Shugoki walks up behind you and bops you on the head for an easy third of your life gone. Or the entire enemy team of Shugoki, get teamed up on, and you find yourself unable to dodge out of the way of every attack for one reason or another. Things like that.

Maybe it will be a case of players learning effective ways to counter things like that over time, and since we haven't seen that class in multiplayer we can't accurately comment on it anyway, but I feel like extra chip damage from that class specifically would be better than taking all the damage no matter what.



That I did notice. I enjoyed knocking the sense out of Saburo very much with it. :D


If there was a full team of Shugouki's. Then just pick a full team of Orochi's lol, dodge for days.

ZenBearV13
06-22-2016, 05:21 AM
I wasn't too thrilled at first with the idea of unblockable attacks either, but I see how they fit into the game. You have a wealth of options at all times. If an enemy comes at you with a heavy attack, you can hit them first with a fast attack, you can block/parry, or you can dodge. If they come at you with a fast attack you can negate it with a block until they tire themselves out. If they turtle up you can guard break. If they attempt to guard break you, you respond with a guard break to negate.

The real skill will come from intelligent use of the tools at the appropriate times. This game is not exceptionally fast paced, for which I am immensely thankful. There are enough twitch-reflex games on the market (looking at you FPS genre), For Honor is more like chess. You set up the enemy into a predictable position, then counter the expected response.

The Shugouki and other juggernaut types will be interesting to see in play. They will be easy to react to with their slow attacks, so the only way to win against a competent foe will be to restrict their options. If you can pin them in a corner, there's no dodging your unblockable heavy attack. That being said, the way to beat the juggernauts is to never let yourself be cornered. Pick your battle carefully and know your and your enemies' strengths and weaknesses.

Back to the main topic of the thread:
I didn't expect them to get rid of the Oni, and I'm happy for the confirmation. I'm a little disappointed they decided to go with the Kensai for the campaign. I think it would have been cool to have the "assassin" samurai be the star of the campaign. They could have leveraged the immense pop culture love for the ninja and gotten all of the money.

TrikRisk
06-22-2016, 10:07 PM
The Oni is a class of the Faction The Chosen. The fat guy in here: https://youtu.be/OK5wRNPj2tk is also from The Chosen. Maybe we'll have different katanas for The Oni(samurai) or even another Samurai class that aren't Oni but yes, The Oni are still in, off course. The Oni even have a trailer on their youtube channel.

HideoshiKaze.TV
06-22-2016, 10:32 PM
The Oni is a class of the Faction The Chosen. The fat guy in here: https://youtu.be/OK5wRNPj2tk is also from The Chosen. Maybe we'll have different katanas for The Oni(samurai) or even another Samurai class that aren't Oni but yes, The Oni are still in, off course. The Oni even have a trailer on their youtube channel.

It isn't called Oni anymore, It's called "Orochi".

And the "fat guy" is called the Shugouki which is the tank class for MP.

And the end boss for the Viking map is called the Kensai which is called the Champion class.

waraidako
06-23-2016, 03:07 PM
Orochi is better for the quick guy. I assume after Yamata no Orochi. The kanabo guy should be the one named Oni, for obvious reasons.

coma987
06-23-2016, 03:16 PM
It isn't called Oni anymore, It's called "Orochi".

And the "fat guy" is called the Shugouki which is the tank class for MP.

And the end boss for the Viking map is called the Kensai which is called the Champion class.

And Holden Cross is a class which seems to be the "LawBringers" Poleaxe class

MisterWillow
06-23-2016, 06:50 PM
Orochi is better for the quick guy. I assume after Yamata no Orochi. The kanabo guy should be the one named Oni, for obvious reasons.

They might have another Hero to reveal as well, which might be even more Oni than a giant with a mace...

AvarusTyrannus
06-23-2016, 08:35 PM
They might have another Hero to reveal as well, which might be even more Oni than a giant with a mace...
Would be strange, to my knowledge Oni and Kanabo are fairly synonymous.

BoldAlphawolf
06-23-2016, 09:51 PM
oni is still in the game

waraidako
06-23-2016, 11:14 PM
Would be strange, to my knowledge Oni and Kanabo are fairly synonymous.

What if Oni is the naginata class, because of Hinomoto Oniko? xD

MisterWillow
06-24-2016, 01:32 AM
Would be strange, to my knowledge Oni and Kanabo are fairly synonymous.

What if he's wearing a demon mask...? :p


What if Oni is the naginata class, because of Hinomoto Oniko? xD

That would be cool. I admit to being slightly confused when I saw the kanabo, as I figured we'd get a naginata Hero, based on the reveal trailer.

To be clear, I'm glad about the kanabo, especially seeing the sort of class he is, but hope we still get a Hero with a naginata.

On naming conventions, though, I agree with Avarus.

AvarusTyrannus
06-24-2016, 07:40 AM
What if he's wearing a demon mask...? :p

I'm 100% behind that idea. I love a good spooky simplistic mask. The kind that doesn't try too hard to be scary, but just removes the humanity from the wearer. Court of Owls type of masks.

MisterWillow
06-24-2016, 07:16 PM
I meant something more traditional. It would also make for some great customisation options.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e7/51/e8/e751e858133ff43e21e7b30ebff45963.jpghttp://www.undernierlivre.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Nobody-2.jpghttp://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mTv7wItHq8i0TiSloHq6MTA.jpghttps://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/6c/eb/e8/6cebe852c8e72f9f99af38a7fef9be55.jpghttp://media.mnn.com/assets/images/2015/01/japanese-wood-mask-17th-century.jpg