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Badass7774
06-16-2016, 04:39 PM
In real history assassins brotherhood was created by "Hassan-e-sabbah" in Persia. he was a patriot who was organizing rebellions and critical assassinations against abbasid and Seljukian who had occupied Persia back then. but Ubisoft never gave credit to "Sabbah" for being the creator and the leader of assassins brotherhood, back then some people would mention "Sabbah's" assassins as "Hashashins" and the word "assassin" is coming from this root. The center for assassins operations was "Alamut" which is a fortress in Iran but in Assassin's creed Revelations Ezio said that assassins were "reborn" in Masyaf which is false! Masyaf was just one of many Hashashins fortresses under command of "Alamut". Ubisoft even got the idea of AC series from a book named "Alamut" by "vladimir bartol"! Alamut means eagle's nest which is very accurate with the story of the game. so here is the question: Why Ubisoft insist's not to give historical credit to real Assassins brotherhood? and where should i go to have some proper answers?

ze_topazio
06-16-2016, 07:05 PM
In real history

That's your answer, this is not real history, it's fiction, in our world the historical Hashashins inspired the Assassins from AC, in the AC world the actions of the Assassins created the legend of the Hashashins.

Ureh
06-17-2016, 03:36 AM
They did give some credit to Hassan-i Sabbah in the Official Assassin's Creed Encyclopedia. I'm looking at the 1st edition, Chapter 4, pg 228:


Masyaf
Located in the Orontes Valley in Western Syria, Masyaf was the headquarters of the Assassin Brotherhood in the Levant. Masyaf's proximity to Jerusalem, Acre and Damascus made it the natural center of Assassin influence in the region; its high walls were a brazen delcaration of Assassin presence, repelling both Saracen and Crusader invaders.

In the late 11th century, Assassin leader Hassan-i Sabbah began a campaign to publicize the Broterhood's activities, making it a visible political force in the region. The citadel of Masyaf allowed the Broterhood to extend its networkk of agents, informants and spies throughout the Levant. By the Third Crusade, Masyaf had solidified into the political, cultural and geographical center of the Assassins.

*rest of the text was excluded*

But like ze_tapazio said, AC lore is only loosely based - especially after AC1 - on the real, historical Hashashins. In AC lore, the earliest recorded history of the Assassins extends as far back as 400 BC (BCE), and even further than that, to 75,000 BC (BCE) if you count the First Civilization and when the first humans rebelled against them.

LoyalACFan
06-17-2016, 05:39 AM
Because he died 65 years before the first game took place, and his relevance on later time periods would have been minimal considering that the fictional Assassins have been around for millennia.

cawatrooper9
06-17-2016, 02:43 PM
In AC lore, the Hashashin are essentially portrayed by the Levantine brotherhood. There are actually a ton of references to Alamut in the original game. However, the series needed an identity of its own, so now whenever they need to reference the roots of the Assassins in more modern games, they're more likely to reference in-universe examples like Altair, Masyaf, and Al Mualim than they are to reference true historical examples. Basically, see Altair and the gang as stand-ins for their historical counterparts.

Badass7774
06-17-2016, 02:46 PM
That's your answer, this is not real history, it's fiction, in our world the historical Hashashins inspired the Assassins from AC, in the AC world the actions of the Assassins created the legend of the Hashashins.

the thing is that AC uses real historical characters and elements for it's fictional stories. for example Machiavelli and Da vinci were real characters and french revolution or crusades and even the date of assassinations of every main character are real and true history. but as i said creation of assassins announced to be in Masyaf which doesn't match with true history and it's kinda strange for a game with this level of accurate historical facts not to mention the most essential fact, where the story was born from: "Hashashins".....

Badass7774
06-17-2016, 03:53 PM
In AC lore, the Hashashin are essentially portrayed by the Levantine brotherhood. There are actually a ton of references to Alamut in the original game. However, the series needed an identity of its own, so now whenever they need to reference the roots of the Assassins in more modern games, they're more likely to reference in-universe examples like Altair, Masyaf, and Al Mualim than they are to reference true historical examples. Basically, see Altair and the gang as stand-ins for their historical counterparts.

There may be some references to Alamut as you mentioned but they are so slight that me as someone who almost completed every AC game at 100% didn't see any and considering that "Sabbah" was a very remarkable person it's really weird and awkward... the creed which the game is about wasn't something new even in "Sabbah's" era nor was the assassination but when you combine these two you get "Assassin's creed" and the person who used the creed as a weapon with his assassins was "Sabbah". isn't that weird that we see Machiavelli between assassins in the game because what he says is like what the creed says but we don't see the name of their creator anywhere? at least i didn't see... It's like i write a book about the beauty of the moon and i don't say that it gets its light from the sun. or you paint a copy of "The Monalisa" without lady Giocondo in the middle!! which i find very weird... Imagine a great and powerful empire like Seljukid with their Sultan trembling in his bed at nights afraid of the Dagger of one of "Sabbah's" assassins, and it's true! "Sabbah" was absolutely a genius of his time and as the creator of assassins brotherhood, it would be disrespect if Ubisoft don't give enough credit to him...

cawatrooper9
06-17-2016, 04:57 PM
Perhaps we just have differing definitions of "slight", but I thought the references were pretty well adapted.

Sure, Sabbah doesn't appear, but Sinan (Al Mualim) does, and fulfills a relatively similar role.
Rather than drugging his Assassins with hashish like Sabbah, Sinan uses the Apple (as well as clever political maneuverings) to assert his will. The final fight with him takes place within a garden at the back of the palace- a relatively meaningless place in the context of the game, but one of greater significance if one considers the heavenly gardens in Alamut.

Then, there's the matter of fanaticism, specifically Yusuf (who also may have gotten a nod in AC Revelations) who kills himself by jumping off of a tower. We see this when Sinan orders the three Assassins to attempt an Eagle Jump to indimidate the Templars at the beginning of the game, and Eagle Jumps have appeared in every single main entry in the series since then.

Speaking of which, Hassan's motto of "Nothing is an absolute reality, all is permitted" sounds awfully familiar... :rolleyes:

Finally, Hassan's ending if very similar to a different Al Mualim's- that being Altair. Both locked themselves away to work for the rest of their lives (which for Altair, wasn't admittedly long).

So no, it's not a direct copy/paste of Alamut, but there are plenty of references to it- thematically most of all. I think you're looking at it the wrong way. AC, to use your example, is absolutely not trying to paint a "copy of the Monalisa". It's trying to make its own painting, drawing inspiration from the Mona Lisa, among many other works.

D.I.D.
06-18-2016, 10:22 AM
The simplest answer is that they can't, because they decided early on that the Assassins had not begun at Masyaf and the Templars had not begun as Crusaders. I wish they hadn't done that. I realise that they were thinking about freedom for the series in terms of how far back in time they could go, but I don't think they would have been trapped in post-11th century if they'd allowed the origins of the Assassins and the Templars to remain true to our history. They could still have had games set further in the past where Shaun made it clear which side was which (if we needed that, since whoever wields authority would be the Templars in spirit). I think that could have been more interesting, too; AC1 would have been the story of the formation of the Assassins and Templars as organised forces, gaining full awareness of the First Civ, whereas anything before that would be a different time when their understanding is more murky and a series of steps in that process.

At the very least, I hope that pre-Crusades games aren't going to call the movements "Assassins" and "Templars", since the former has a linguistic root local to the MIddle East and "Templar" is a specifically Christian cultural term.

Ubi-JollyCharly
06-18-2016, 04:02 PM
In real history assassins brotherhood was created by "Hassan-e-sabbah" in Persia. he was a patriot who was organizing rebellions and critical assassinations against abbasid and Seljukian who had occupied Persia back then. but Ubisoft never gave credit to "Sabbah" for being the creator and the leader of assassins brotherhood, back then some people would mention "Sabbah's" assassins as "Hashashins" and the word "assassin" is coming from this root. The center for assassins operations was "Alamut" which is a fortress in Iran but in Assassin's creed Revelations Ezio said that assassins were "reborn" in Masyaf which is false! Masyaf was just one of many Hashashins fortresses under command of "Alamut". Ubisoft even got the idea of AC series from a book named "Alamut" by "vladimir bartol"! Alamut means eagle's nest which is very accurate with the story of the game. so here is the question: Why Ubisoft insist's not to give historical credit to real Assassins brotherhood? and where should i go to have some proper answers?

Hi Badass7774 and welcome on the forums!

I do undertsand your question, but I think it isn't the right way to look at it. It is not that Ubisoft "insists on not giving historical credit to the real Assassins Brotherhood", but that Ubisoft was inspired by it. It never has been said that Assassin's Creed was following exactly the historical reality. In all the Assassin's Creed games, history mixes fiction, and this is the committed stance production took.

JollyCharly

Badass7774
06-18-2016, 05:25 PM
Hi Badass7774 and welcome on the forums!

I do undertsand your question, but I think it isn't the right way to look at it. It is not that Ubisoft "insists on not giving historical credit to the real Assassins Brotherhood", but that Ubisoft was inspired by it. It never has been said that Assassin's Creed was following exactly the historical reality. In all the Assassin's Creed games, history mixes fiction, and this is the committed stance production took.

JollyCharly

Hi! I really appreciate that you answered my question! But what i'm saying is that Assassins Creed is well known for teaching history! And really did a fine job with all the databases about characters and places and events! But it is strange that it doesn't mention anything about where it got its story from. I bet that 90 percent of the players of the game who don't know about the real brotherhood think that it was something done by Arabs which is false. It was Persian "Sabbah" who organized the brotherhood and used both patriotic and religious feelings of people (which is obviously the inspiring for the apple of eden!) and fought with the enemies of Persia, and did a great job! it was such a remarkable job that this order was active in next centuries until the attack of mughals! I know that Assassins Creed is not a history book to be accurate in every phrase but this is a great deal of history that is being misunderstood by the players of the game... Thank You

Megas_Doux
06-18-2016, 07:34 PM
Perhaps we just have differing definitions of "slight", but I thought the references were pretty well adapted.

Sure, Sabbah doesn't appear, but Sinan (Al Mualim) does, and fulfills a relatively similar role.
Rather than drugging his Assassins with hashish like Sabbah, Sinan uses the Apple (as well as clever political maneuverings) to assert his will. The final fight with him takes place within a garden at the back of the palace- a relatively meaningless place in the context of the game, but one of greater significance if one considers the heavenly gardens in Alamut.

Then, there's the matter of fanaticism, specifically Yusuf (who also may have gotten a nod in AC Revelations) who kills himself by jumping off of a tower. We see this when Sinan orders the three Assassins to attempt an Eagle Jump to indimidate the Templars at the beginning of the game, and Eagle Jumps have appeared in every single main entry in the series since then.

Speaking of which, Hassan's motto of "Nothing is an absolute reality, all is permitted" sounds awfully familiar... :rolleyes:

Finally, Hassan's ending if very similar to a different Al Mualim's- that being Altair. Both locked themselves away to work for the rest of their lives (which for Altair, wasn't admittedly long).

So no, it's not a direct copy/paste of Alamut, but there are plenty of references to it- thematically most of all. I think you're looking at it the wrong way. AC, to use your example, is absolutely not trying to paint a "copy of the Monalisa". It's trying to make its own painting, drawing inspiration from the Mona Lisa, among many other works.


/THREAD


.

At the very least, I hope that pre-Crusades games aren't going to call the movements "Assassins" and "Templars", since the former has a linguistic root local to the MIddle East and "Templar" is a specifically Christian cultural term.


I know is the super unknown French comics, but Assassins called themselves "Liberalis Circulum" back in the time of the Roman Empire.