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DronePa
06-16-2016, 05:32 AM
When I first saw Revenge mode I was like I guess that's nifty for campaign. Then I heard it's also making its way to multiplayer modes where I would've preferred it kept it's moderate realism. Just wondering what the people on this forum thought about the mechanic?

I can understand it'll definitely help players in like a 2v1 scenario where they might find it difficult to get an attack in edgewise but my intuitive reaction was that it would disrupt an epic duel in multiplayer with some clunky, unrealistic mechanic. I'll definitely reserve my opinion until I get my hands on it and maybe more gamey mechanics make the game better overall :D.

Altair_Snake
06-16-2016, 05:55 AM
I don't like two things about it: the glow and how the activation is a scream that blocks any attack. I don't ind its mechanical effects. I'd just like to be ale to turn off its damn orange glow... and for the activation to look like an actual parry, when it works like a parry (when an enemy is attacking). So, mechanics: cool; looks: very bad.

FLYINGvDUTCHMAN
06-16-2016, 07:31 AM
I don't like two things about it: the glow and how the activation is a scream that blocks any attack. I don't ind its mechanical effects. I'd just like to be ale to turn off its damn orange glow... and for the activation to look like an actual parry, when it works like a parry (when an enemy is attacking). So, mechanics: cool; looks: very bad.

I whole heartidly agree, I was thrown aback by the boss fight where the boss parried by activating rage and throwing his arms out. Plus, Samurai were meant to have disciplined minds, to not let them selves feel emotion while fighting, having a rage ability doesn't feel right for any faction other than the vikings, because it's like the beserker rage so many stories about vikings include.

Sir_Beefing
06-16-2016, 11:04 AM
I am with DronePa, I think its a cool idea for the campaign in the way the it will help in the two vs one scenario but I don't really see this being something i would want to see in multiplayer. I see it getting frustrating when you are winning a duel and you're not giving your opponent an opening but because you were winning and landing more hits he becomes more powerful? just sounds like its going to ruin the skill based fighting in duelling people.

Kerniac69
06-16-2016, 11:38 AM
Revenge is related to vikings but not to samuraï and knights. They should add a bonus adapted to each community. The problem would be to keep a good balance between the 3 races.

And I don't like the animation for revenge, the viking just looks like Hulk.

FLYINGvDUTCHMAN
06-16-2016, 11:56 AM
I am with DronePa, I think its a cool idea for the campaign in the way the it will help in the two vs one scenario but I don't really see this being something i would want to see in multiplayer. I see it getting frustrating when you are winning a duel and you're not giving your opponent an opening but because you were winning and landing more hits he becomes more powerful? just sounds like its going to ruin the skill based fighting in duelling people.

I don't know if you noticed, but in the campaign, the 2 v 1 duels are pretty much 1 v 1s with the 2nd enemy watching. Rage is totally unnecessary.

Sir_Beefing
06-16-2016, 12:04 PM
I don't know if you noticed, but in the campaign, the 2 v 1 duels are pretty much 1 v 1s with the 2nd enemy watching. Rage is totally unnecessary.

From what i know they way the the enemy's fight will change greatly with the difficulty level allowing them both to attack simultaneously. In response to Kerniac69 in the video linked below it shows that revenge mode can be used by all factions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnxBC91ilEE

Kerniac69
06-16-2016, 12:34 PM
Sir_Beefing, sorry for my bad english ! I meant revenge sounds good for vikings but I don't like the fact that samuraïs and knights can also use it… I would have prefered a specific skill for each faction.

Sir_Beefing
06-16-2016, 12:42 PM
Yeah i could see that working. It defiantly fits the vikings style :P

WYRDB0Y
06-16-2016, 01:20 PM
Revenge is related to vikings but not to samuraï and knights.


What? I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Maybe look up what "revenge" means, I think you got it wrong.

Sir_Beefing
06-16-2016, 01:25 PM
Sir_Beefing, sorry for my bad english ! I meant revenge sounds good for vikings but I don't like the fact that samuraïs and knights can also use it… I would have prefered a specific skill for each faction.

They clarified themselves in a later post...

FLYINGvDUTCHMAN
06-16-2016, 02:05 PM
From what i know they way the the enemy's fight will change greatly with the difficulty level allowing them both to attack simultaneously. In response to Kerniac69 in the video linked below it shows that revenge mode can be used by all factions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnxBC91ilEE

If the enemies are more aggressive when you increase the difficulty then you do not want a tool that negates that, if you decide that you want to increase the difficulty of the game, why would you want an ability that makes fighting easier? Makes more sense to just not have it, cause it breaks immersion.

Sir_Beefing
06-16-2016, 02:31 PM
The way that i see it is that its an optional buff so for that people that want a bit more of a challenge they simply don't have to use it. They could through in an achievement or something for the people who make it through the campaign without using it.

V4nClief
06-16-2016, 02:40 PM
I'm just against the orange glow and I was hoping this game stuck to more of a realistic approach rather than taking a fantasy style edge to it with these power ups. I fight MMA and when I get angry and seeking revenge on a hit or a take down I do not glow orange...well not that has been visually documented anyway. Keep things simple please don't make this game start to go over the top and unrealistic.

DerHerbman
06-16-2016, 02:59 PM
The Glow is horrible, looks like a Tekken game. Keep it real and please donīt use this shiny flashy stuff. I also donīt like the Idea that everyone can use it.It could ads an unrealistic arcade feel to the battle! But I canīt really judge the mechanism before playing.

V4nClief
06-16-2016, 03:03 PM
The whole concept of glowing orange, screaming, and then sending my opponent flying across the screen when i get hit by a sword is absurd. I really do not see what Ubisoft was thinking on this one. Maybe jsut they wanted to appeal to the fantasy crowd a bit more. We have so many sword fantasy games already though. Most of us on here wanted that more realistic approach to immerse ourselves in. What's next a perk for Vikings that they can play a magical flute and Thor is summoned to battle to help him??? Oh darn I just gave them another lame idea...

Kerniac69
06-16-2016, 03:11 PM
They corrected themselves in a later post...

I was actually answering you...

Sir_Beefing
06-16-2016, 03:29 PM
I should of said clarified, sorry. But as for the orange glow when entering revenge mode i agree that is does look alittle cheesy and it takes away from what could be a really immersive gritty sword play game.

FLYINGvDUTCHMAN
06-16-2016, 04:22 PM
The way that i see it is that its an optional buff so for that people that want a bit more of a challenge they simply don't have to use it. They could through in an achievement or something for the people who make it through the campaign without using it.

Oh yes I certainly wont be using it in campaign, but the NPC's I face will use it, which will feel cheap. So when I've struck my enemy close to the point of death, and I've managed to corner him and swing a sweet Heavy Attack for my finisher, he spreads his arms out, glows orange and I get blown off my feet. That there is my problem, and if this or things like this get put into the multiplayer then I'll be disappointed too, I liked the Arrow, Shuriken and catapult feats from E3 2015, but was not a fan off the likes of the self healing feat that the warden had, or the ally buffing feat.

MathiasCB
06-16-2016, 04:29 PM
The whole ''revenge'' thing just makes me sad.
Me personally would just simply want to see it completly removed.

It's just another way to kick butt in a way to easy way.
The real issue you're going to be facing talking about 2v1 and such is people simply stabbing you in the back, revenge is not going to help you there as you'll be dead in a second most likely.
If we're talking 2v1 when you've got 2 opponents in front of you holding their guard up waiting for their time to strike.. Then it should simply come down to your own skill and team to help you out.
2v1 Is not and should not be easy, giving people another tool to fight it by screaming on top of their lungs... No thanks.
It's easy enough as you parry every strike from the 2nd opponent by guarding his way.

This is not something I could have ever imagined when listening to Jason speak about the game at E3 2015. First time I'm disappointed with something in the game.

I want a viking with an axe. Not a viking with saiyan Powers.

premiumart
06-16-2016, 04:42 PM
Damn i cant wait, im gonna throw the biggest horns i can possibly find onto that raider helmet and then kick *** while glowing orange in revenge mode and bathe in tears afterwards.

( sorry couldnt resist XD )

FLYINGvDUTCHMAN
06-16-2016, 04:51 PM
Damn i cant wait, im gonna throw the biggest horns i can possibly find onto that raider helmet and then kick *** while glowing orange in revenge mode and bathe in tears afterwards.

( sorry couldnt resist XD )

I'll just have to find you on the battlefield and kick your silly looking glowing *** with my great authentic looking non glowing axeman :D

Casp3r42
06-16-2016, 04:59 PM
It's worth noting that based on the footage available the meter won't fill up during 1v1's unless you both really suck or your in a boss battle since the boss has enough health to live long enough for it to happen. But even so, i personally don't like it. There def needed to be concessions for multiple attackers but i really dislike this mechanic. It looks very artificial and silly to me.

Sir_Beefing
06-16-2016, 05:00 PM
Hopefully this is something that will be looked at during the next alpha. Maybe a hardcore game mode could be the solution something that removes all combat buffs from the game keeping it %100 skill . Personally I feel like it just makes a good fight feel cheep and the victor undeserving. I want to feel like i played my cards right and didn't have to gain an advantage with some silly buff. I want to feel Honor :cool: when i take you'r heads from you'r shoulders.

V4nClief
06-16-2016, 05:16 PM
One would hope there is a hardcore mode without the silly effects and glowing chest bumps...

https://s31.postimg.org/ddd5fxbkn/FHsig.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/ddd5fxbkn/)

BananaBlighter
06-16-2016, 07:02 PM
In the same way that I don't like skill trees (because how does magical 'XP' that I earned from killing people suddenly translate in to a new ability) I don't like that this revenge mode is something which you can activate (or almost 'buy') at any time after having blocked a certain number of times.

This is also the reason why I wasn't impressed with the feats when they were announced, because from what I remember it seemed that they were gained when you do well. Now it seems they're scattered about the place and need to be collected, which makes probably even less sense. Though unrealistic, I'll give them a pass, because this is a game and at least they offer some sort of variety to the gameplay, although many seem quite gimmicky. I personally can't think of how else it would've been done that makes sense, so there's no point me bashing Ubi for doing it in this way.

Revenge, and some of the feats also look ridiculous. Like, the random glowing thing is really off-putting. Also, the Raider's heal feat animation looks really silly because in the middle of a fight he'll suddenly jerk upright and simply stand there while knocking his head side to side, fully exposing himself. I don't see why we couldn't have had the head knocking while remaining in stance. The warden's heal animations from last year looked a lot better, because at least he/she does some sort of pose with the sword.

V4nClief
06-16-2016, 07:39 PM
Honestly I could do without the perks altogether and especially if their is an xp tree on the line of Assassin's Creed. Sometimes simplicity = more. The more I hear about these fantasy perks the more off-putting this game is becoming and that is sad, because I've been anxiously awaiting this game for months prior when there was barely any information. I hope Ubisoft reconsiders this feature or disables it in a hardcore mode setting for both campaign and multiplayer.

FLYINGvDUTCHMAN
06-17-2016, 03:03 AM
Honestly I could do without the perks altogether and especially if their is an xp tree on the line of Assassin's Creed. Sometimes simplicity = more. The more I hear about these fantasy perks the more off-putting this game is becoming and that is sad, because I've been anxiously awaiting this game for months prior when there was barely any information. I hope Ubisoft reconsiders this feature or disables it in a hardcore mode setting for both campaign and multiplayer.

Completely agree, if they cant bring themselves to remove the magic ability feats then hopefully they bring a hardcore mode to both single and multiplayer and we will all just have to make hardcore the main competitive mode :D

Killerbrian26
06-17-2016, 03:16 AM
In the same way that I don't like skill trees (because how does magical 'XP' that I earned from killing people suddenly translate in to a new ability) I don't like that this revenge mode is something which you can activate (or almost 'buy') at any time after having blocked a certain number of times.

This is also the reason why I wasn't impressed with the feats when they were announced, because from what I remember it seemed that they were gained when you do well. Now it seems they're scattered about the place and need to be collected, which makes probably even less sense. Though unrealistic, I'll give them a pass, because this is a game and at least they offer some sort of variety to the gameplay, although many seem quite gimmicky. I personally can't think of how else it would've been done that makes sense, so there's no point me bashing Ubi for doing it in this way.

Revenge, and some of the feats also look ridiculous. Like, the random glowing thing is really off-putting. Also, the Raider's heal feat animation looks really silly because in the middle of a fight he'll suddenly jerk upright and simply stand there while knocking his head side to side, fully exposing himself. I don't see why we couldn't have had the head knocking while remaining in stance. The warden's heal animations from last year looked a lot better, because at least he/she does some sort of pose with the sword.

I'm fairly sure that you only find the perks on campaign mode, but I do agree that Revenge looks really stupid. Honestly I don't want to be too judgemental because I haven't played the game, and I'll make more comments on the system if I get into some Alpha or Beta testing.

V4nClief
06-17-2016, 02:48 PM
I can understand if xp would go towards more block, agility, speed, strength, heart, etc. Things that are actually known in the world and would make sense if you put in the practice and battles. I'd rather XP go towards those real life aspects then I get a perk where I can play a magical flute and Thor himself comes crashing from the sky to help me strike down my enemies. I mean come on might as well add in the ability to use mounted combat with the choice of a unicorn, pegasus, or some other mythical creature. Ubisoft please keep the game more authentic and less fantasy we have way to many fantasy sword games out there. What we don't have a true and accurate just raw depiction of how all these great warrior factions lived, fought, and trained.

premiumart
06-17-2016, 07:47 PM
You guys need to calm down a bit. The revenge meter only fills up when you are blocking so it is probably possible to kill an enemy in 1v1 before he even gets revenge mode also if you actually win he isnt really blocking, also it just means you are not interuptable which means that you can block all of his attacks in revenge mode and get yours. This mechanic is probably in place so that enemies cant just hit you non stop it helps you to fight back and gives you better chanes in 2v1 but it doesnt make you invincible.

A game needs rules and mechanics to be balanced. Realism doesnt help much, because the world we live in isnt balanced. XD

DronePa
06-17-2016, 07:56 PM
I think I agree with premiumart to a certain extent. If in multiplayer you could duel someone and not have revenge be as significant factor a factor as in a 2v1 scenario then sure. So basically as a gamey mechanic if you can play around it well enough then I don't mind. I'm trying to reserve my opinion somewhat until I can actually get my hands on the game. Moar xD

Sir_Beefing
06-17-2016, 08:30 PM
The revenge meter only fills up when you are blocking so it is probably possible to kill an enemy in 1v1 before he even gets revenge mode also if you actually win he isnt really blocking, also it just means you are not interuptable which means that you can block all of his attacks in revenge mode and get yours.

The way that i see it is that there is nothing stopping someone from saving revenge mode from their last fight and opening with it in the next 1v1 giving them an immediate advantage. I just don't think it will feel good dying like that.

Fatal-Feit
06-17-2016, 08:55 PM
Silly glow and chest pumping aside, I think a major flaw in this presumably 2v1 solution is that it doesn't give someone more advantage when being ganked on than the players ganking themselves since it's a bonus all players can have. Essentially, the gankers can both use 'revenge' and the player would be no better than he was before. In fact, there's a higher chance that one of the gankers themselves would have their bar filled up already.

Assuming this is suppose to be a 2v1 solution, I think what they could do to tweak this is 1. make it so the bar only fills up if the player is being locked on by multiple enemies. This would be the best way of assuring that 'revenge' isn't a common, exploitable feature and can only be used by players that put themselves in dangerous situations like tackling Capture Point B where everyone are at their most vulnerable with all the chaos and minions around, and 2. the buff is more passive and AoE-centric. Meaning, it's only there to buff the players' defenses, speed, and improve their AoE attacks (such as L1 + L2 sweep attacks).

Casp3r42
06-17-2016, 09:10 PM
for some reason it double posted my comment -_-

Casp3r42
06-17-2016, 09:18 PM
The way that i see it is that there is nothing stopping someone from saving revenge mode from their last fight and opening with it in the next 1v1 giving them an immediate advantage. I just don't think it will feel good dying like that.

It drains very rapidly when your not locked onto an opponent so unless that next fight starts just before the first one ends you won't have it for the next fight. In fact i'm noticing a lot of misconceptions about how the mechanic works in the comments so here's how it works: It only fills from blocking and taking damage, and does not fill fast enough to be relevant in 1v1 fights unless they are very prolonged. It drains very quickly when your not locked onto an enemy, and lasts about 10 seconds. It knocks attacking enemies prone when activated and gives hyperarmor, increased damage and possibly other currently unknown defensive benefits.

DronePa
06-17-2016, 09:24 PM
So it kinda seems like if in a single fight you can gather Revenge mode while fighting a single opponent and it isn't that possible to play around it then I would start getting scared. Other than that just make different game modes available if it drastically alters play for more experienced players and they don't favor the mechanic.

MathiasCB
06-18-2016, 01:06 AM
No dragons.
No witchcraft.
No spells.
No magic roars.

The more I think about it...
The viking is turning more and more into my skyrim character. :'D

Fatal-Feit
06-18-2016, 01:40 AM
No dragons.
No witchcraft.
No spells.
No magic roars.

The more I think about it...
The viking is turning more and more into my skyrim character. :'D

You were destined for this game.

Sir_Beefing
06-18-2016, 11:51 AM
It drains very rapidly when your not locked onto an opponent so unless that next fight starts just before the first one ends you won't have it for the next fight. In fact i'm noticing a lot of misconceptions about how the mechanic works in the comments so here's how it works: It only fills from blocking and taking damage, and does not fill fast enough to be relevant in 1v1 fights unless they are very prolonged. It drains very quickly when your not locked onto an enemy, and lasts about 10 seconds. It knocks attacking enemies prone when activated and gives hyperarmor, increased damage and possibly other currently unknown defensive benefits.

Thank you for clarifying on how revenge mode works. This has defiantly put a few of my concerns to rest, but I still don't really like the idea of a buff system in a game like For Honor.

Willaguy2010
06-18-2016, 03:38 PM
It's good to discuss things like this, but let's keep in mind that there is an upcoming alpha where I'm sure us community members will get to test stuff like this, we all share your concerns so even if you don't get in it will probably still be tested to high heaven.

I like the idea of having it fill up when there's only multiple people locking on to you, seems like a more direct way to counter 2v1's or 3v1's.

Sir_Beefing
06-18-2016, 04:20 PM
I think the alpha is the ONLY thing on peoples minds :p but yeah, during the alpha things like this will be looks at in greater detail and it will be cool see what people have to say once they get the chance to play.

MathiasCB
06-18-2016, 04:34 PM
I'd be totally cool with revenge if it had some other animation and did something else than knocking your opponent down. Til' then I'll just keep calling it a saiyan power.
But I guess I should stop hating, heck, maybe I'll like it.

Casp3r42
06-18-2016, 07:06 PM
Well there are 2 glaring flaws I see with the current system, the first is purely aesthetic. The glow is annoying and obtrusive and very ‘video gamey’. It sticks out in the relatively gritty world of For Honor and it really doesn’t need to be there. The character already roars and poses and an icon appears next to his health and stamina meter and frankly i don’t think even the pose is needed. The roar and icon are perfectly sufficient. The second glaring flaw is the fact that the pose, for some reason, knocks all players prone that happened to be attacking you. This looks cheap. It’s likely there so you have enough of an opening to get a couple attacks in or flee but it looks so forced and artificial that it ends up looking like it would be very unrewarding. There are also a few other, more nitpicky, issues with it. Revenge is kind of an odd theme to frame it under. I’m not sure how useful the hyper-armor it gives you would be as you would still be taking the hits so wouldn’t you just be trading damage at best? The damage boost i get, how else are you gonna come back but it’s another very ‘video gamey’ aspect of this mode.

Maybe they should rename it to Adrenaline. Would make a lot more thematic sense than 'revenge'. I for one would rather see a more subdued mode, with changes made elsewhere in the game to deal with combat where you're outnumbered.

waraidako
06-18-2016, 07:37 PM
Where was this shown?

From what I've read in this thread it sounds terrible. Any thing that makes your character glow is always a turn off for me.

Dead1y-Derri
06-19-2016, 12:39 AM
The way that i see it is that there is nothing stopping someone from saving revenge mode from their last fight and opening with it in the next 1v1 giving them an immediate advantage. I just don't think it will feel good dying like that.

I think this could be the problem, you could have the meter filled up and activate it coming into a next fight which would be 1v1,


Silly glow and chest pumping aside, I think a major flaw in this presumably 2v1 solution is that it doesn't give someone more advantage when being ganked on than the players ganking themselves since it's a bonus all players can have. Essentially, the gankers can both use 'revenge' and the player would be no better than he was before. In fact, there's a higher chance that one of the gankers themselves would have their bar filled up already.


Assuming this is suppose to be a 2v1 solution, I think what they could do to tweak this is 1. make it so the bar only fills up if the player is being locked on by multiple enemies. This would be the best way of assuring that 'revenge' isn't a common, exploitable feature and can only be used by players that put themselves in dangerous situations like tackling Capture Point B where everyone are at their most vulnerable with all the chaos and minions around, and 2. the buff is more passive and AoE-centric. Meaning, it's only there to buff the players' defenses, speed, and improve their AoE attacks (such as L1 + L2 sweep attacks).

Yeah that's a problem too.


Thank you for clarifying on how revenge mode works. This has defiantly put a few of my concerns to rest, but I still don't really like the idea of a buff system in a game like For Honor.

I agree it was good explanation of the revenge boost. However I have to admit I just don't know how well something like this would work considering how much of an advantage it can potentially give in a 2v1 situation. I understand they had to do something to balance the odd, considering being ganged up on was one of the biggest concerns in the initial reveal of For Honor. However maybe giving someone an active buff that has all these benefits would be too much.

I think we've got to wait for the Alpha as it could turn out to be an excellent feature that for the most part is helpful but still fair.

MisterWillow
06-19-2016, 09:13 AM
so here's how it works: It only fills from blocking and taking damage, and does not fill fast enough to be relevant in 1v1 fights unless they are very prolonged. It drains very quickly when your not locked onto an enemy, and lasts about 10 seconds. It knocks attacking enemies prone when activated and gives hyperarmor, increased damage and possibly other currently unknown defensive benefits.

Thank you. Reading through this thread was making me want to scream.


Well there are 2 glaring flaws I see with the current system, the first is purely aesthetic. The glow is annoying and obtrusive and very ‘video gamey’. It sticks out in the relatively gritty world of For Honor and it really doesn’t need to be there. The character already roars and poses and an icon appears next to his health and stamina meter and frankly i don’t think even the pose is needed. The roar and icon are perfectly sufficient.

I agree with this to an extent. The glow is probably unnecessary. I'd like to see it without the glow, just for comparison sake.


The second glaring flaw is the fact that the pose, for some reason, knocks all players prone that happened to be attacking you. This looks cheap. It’s likely there so you have enough of an opening to get a couple attacks in or flee but it looks so forced and artificial that it ends up looking like it would be very unrewarding.

I think it's supposed to be like you shrugging an attack off. I don't know if your opponent should be knocked down---a stagger would be fine---but overall I get they're going for a 'I'm done being hurt' sort of mentality.

Also, a couple attacks I can see, but I don't know why you'd flee (I understand you probably put it there as an option, but still). Will a clear advantage, there'd be little reason to run away.


Maybe they should rename it to Adrenaline. Would make a lot more thematic sense than 'revenge'. I for one would rather see a more subdued mode, with changes made elsewhere in the game to deal with combat where you're outnumbered.

Definitely agree with this. Something about the term 'revenge' seemed off the moment I heard it, but for some reason I couldn't think of a term to replace it with.


I think this could be the problem, you could have the meter filled up and activate it coming into a next fight which would be 1v1,

Nah. If you have your meter filled and let go of the lock on trigger for more than a second, you lose it.


I agree it was good explanation of the revenge boost. However I have to admit I just don't know how well something like this would work considering how much of an advantage it can potentially give in a 2v1 situation. I understand they had to do something to balance the odd, considering being ganged up on was one of the biggest concerns in the initial reveal of For Honor. However maybe giving someone an active buff that has all these benefits would be too much.

How so? There's next to no chance of one of the two people ganging up on the one to ever filling their revenge meter, since they'd need to be blocking/taking damage, and since they're more likely to be the aggressive pair in the encounter, there's very little chance of that happening.

The single player in that situation, though, will be on the defensive almost at all times, and would need to block a lot to fill their meter up. Something that I didn't see mentioned by anyone is that blocking seems to fill the meter faster than taking damage. In the video below, pay careful attention to how much the bar fills from being hit vs successfully blocking an attack. This ensures that players can't just get wailed on and spam revenge when their bar maxes out, since they'll be dead long beforehand. They still need to be fluent in the defense department.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBJA4bnyhd4

Also, at 10:25, notice that the bar fills much more when you're hit by someone you're not locked on to, making it more useful in situations where you're outnumbered (but still not so useful that you can take a bunch of hits and activate revenge, since you'd still die before the meter's full).

DerHerbman
06-19-2016, 03:01 PM
If you bring up the 2 vs 1 argument you should ask why there is a 2 vs 1 situation! I think if your tactic is bad, and you end in a 1 vs 2 situation you should get punished! If you play strategically and and up with 2 vs 1 you did something right and should be rewarded!

MisterWillow
06-19-2016, 06:15 PM
If you bring up the 2 vs 1 argument you should ask why there is a 2 vs 1 situation! I think if your tactic is bad, and you end in a 1 vs 2 situation you should get punished! If you play strategically and and up with 2 vs 1 you did something right and should be rewarded!

In certain areas of the Viking mission it was unavoidable. You'd enter an area with three or more Hero samurai, and would need to kill them all. There are certain things you can do to mitigate the threat (fining narrow areas like stairs or a hallway), but it doesn't change the fact that you're outnumbered.

In multiplayer, I can sort of see your argument, but then again, it's conceivable that some players will group up and try to, say, capture a point together, and given ever-changing circumstances, it might not always be a lack of strategy that caused one player to be outnumbered---perhaps they were fighting with a teammate and that teammate died, so now they're fighting not only their opponent but the one that just killed their teammate, or perhaps they went to capture a point and found it guarded by two enemies, or maybe they were capping a point with someone, thought nobody was coming, told their teammate to run to another point and two enemies show up after they're gone, or maybe they were going to a point, turned a corner, and found themselves outnumbered, etc. etc.

premiumart
06-19-2016, 08:56 PM
Guys please 5 pages of speculation for something that is subject to change ? XD

The next testing phase they still call "alpha" so we still got plenty of time to test things that might change anyway.

Dead1y-Derri
06-19-2016, 09:14 PM
Guys please 5 pages of speculation for something that is subject to change ? XD

The next testing phase they still call "alpha" so we still got plenty of time to test things that might change anyway.

Its what the community does :D

premiumart
06-19-2016, 09:27 PM
Its what the community does :D

Its kinda frustrating to me to see so many users here discuss nothing with so much effort. There is no right answer here.

Sir_Beefing
06-19-2016, 09:53 PM
Well if there was one right answer then there would be nothing the discuss ;)

Casp3r42
06-19-2016, 10:08 PM
the devs read these threads, all speculation is taken as feedback and could influence how things end up for the upcoming alpha test.

MisterWillow
06-19-2016, 10:19 PM
the devs read these threads, all speculation is taken as feedback and could influence how things end up for the upcoming alpha test.

http://static4.fjcdn.com/comments/One+of+my+cousins+got+hemorrhoids+and+couldnt+stay +still+_bb40fda75181ad81a781364ce4aae51e.jpg

HideoshiKaze.TV
06-19-2016, 11:51 PM
Revenge mode:

Revenge mode is obtained by blocking, parrying and taking repeated hits from the enemy. It is the yellow bar on the bottom left of the screen. It gives you slightly increased attack speed, movement and damage.

How to use Revenge mode:

Activate Revenge mode right before an enemy attacks to perfect parry them and have them fall over which acts like they have zero stamina (all about timing) which leaves them open to attacks. Revenge modes also enables you to chain your attacks without a limit for the duration it's activated. Revenge mode also enables you to be unstunable aka super armor, which means attacks don't stun you and guard breaks don't effect you for the duration.

You are still able to perfect parry or block an enemy who has revenge mode activated.

If you are fighting an enemy with Revenge mode activated. Use only perfect parries with two side light hits, or run away until it's worn off.

MathiasCB
06-20-2016, 12:02 AM
As long as you scream, block an attack with your chest and can knock down your opponent...
https://media.giphy.com/media/p9YSFq1W0uyuA/giphy.gif
#SaiyanMode

Yes, it does bother me that much. :(

Sir_Beefing
06-20-2016, 12:06 AM
haha that gif sums it up well :D

Casp3r42
06-20-2016, 04:35 AM
Revenge modes also enables you to chain your attacks without a limit for the duration it's activated. Revenge mode also enables you to be unstunable aka super armor, which means attacks don't stun you and guard breaks don't effect you for the duration.

Interesting. Until now i thought the hyperarmor only affected attacks, i didn't know it negates guard breaks.

HideoshiKaze.TV
06-20-2016, 06:17 AM
From what I tested it didn't effect me, as I would swipe aside Saburo's guard breaks.

Yggdrasil_67
06-20-2016, 07:47 AM
They need to tone down on the grossly incandescent Sunny D aura, that's for sure. Also maybe remove the knockdown effect on activation.

From what we've seen so far it seems balanced enough. The bar depletes quickly when you're not targetting anyone and you gain slightly more meter when blocking or being hit by someone you're not targetting (while locking on someone else, I hope). This way, it doesn't happen often and occurs only in long lasting duels, although a turtling player might abuse this ability. Other than that, it doesn't seem like it'll be possible to get ganked and have one or two of them go super saiyan on you.

I just hope it's not that big of a buff if it boosts both your attack and defence while also giving you super armor and immunity to guard breaks.

FLYINGvDUTCHMAN
06-20-2016, 09:20 AM
I would just like to see it completely removed, I don't want to get a bonus for fighting long duels or fighting 2 v 1, and I don't want my enemies to get a bonus either.

premiumart
06-20-2016, 09:20 AM
So you wanna die everytime a 2v1 comes up ? :3

DerHerbman
06-20-2016, 09:28 AM
But we know how it works and chances are that it will work in MP exactly the same. It was said that this feature is present in MP when I donīt mix up things. So its better to raise our concerns now, before its to late.
Also nobody came and said that we are wrong with our speculations!

premiumart
06-20-2016, 09:29 AM
the devs read these threads, all speculation is taken as feedback and could influence how things end up for the upcoming alpha test.

We are talking about a feature nobody in this thread ever tested or even knows how it works in mp exactly.

Furthermore why would speculation equal feedback ?

Fatal-Feit
06-20-2016, 09:34 AM
We are talking about a feature nobody in this thread ever tested or even knows how it works in mp exactly.

Furthermore why would speculation equal feedback ?

Yeah, I see your point, but the Star Players discussing the mechanics in this thread, such as MisterWillow himself, have presumably had hands on at E3 and HideoshiKaze wrote a detailed description (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1461909-Concerns-about-Revenge-mode?p=11783370&viewfull=1#post11783370)of it.

The biggest criticism regarding Revenge mode is how it looks and aesthetics are always something that could be tweaked with feedback, regardless of how something functions systemically in the game. Personally, I'm going to be optimistic about the mechanic since the response from Youtubers and Star Players have been overwhelmingly optimistic about the gameplay, but like my feelings on the UI, the looks is something I hope will be addressed.

premiumart
06-20-2016, 09:38 AM
But we know how it works and chances are that it will work in MP exactly the same. It was said that this feature is present in MP when I donīt mix up things. So its better to raise our concerns now, before its to late.
Also nobody came and said that we are wrong with our speculations!

All we know is that it will be in mp but we dont know in what form that will be. And also you are correct better be conerned know about something thight might not happen at all.

Its always better to whine about something that could be instead of discussing something that is.

Guys when the alpha is up the ones of you that were chosen can discuss this matter all month. Could we just focus on the facts for now ?

premiumart
06-20-2016, 09:41 AM
Yeah, I see your point, but the Star Players discussing the mechanics in this thread, such as MisterWillow himself, have presumably had hands on at E3 and HideoshiKaze wrote a detailed description (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1461909-Concerns-about-Revenge-mode?p=11783370&viewfull=1#post11783370)of it.

The biggest criticism regarding Revenge mode is how it looks and aesthetics are always something that could be tweaked with feedback, regardless of how something functions systemically in the game. Personally, I'm going to be optimistic about the mechanic since the response from Youtubers and Star Players have been overwhelmingly optimistic about the gameplay, but like my feelings on the UI, the looks is something I hope will be addressed.

So you are telling me the starplayers actually played a mp match with revenge mode ?? Also we cant be sure if the aesthetics affect gameplay yet sure its just a glow but take overwatch for example how would you know McCree is using his ult without the red glow ? Maybe its better to see if someone is in revenge mode half the map away so you can keep your distance untill it runs out ? Have you thought about that ?

I dont want to sound like an ******* here but we cant be sure about anything at this point. Maybe revenge mode is the best thing ever, maybe the glow is important, maybe the battlecry is awesome, i dont know and neither do you XD.

FLYINGvDUTCHMAN
06-20-2016, 09:51 AM
I think it's fair enough for people to share their like/ dislike of a feature in the game, based on what they have seen from E3, it's not whining, it's constructive criticism, the Devs read these forums, so if the general consent is that people didn't like the aesthetics/ mechanics of the rage ability they may then tone it down or change it before the Alpha. You don't necessarily need to play with this mechanic in a multiplayer match to form an opinion on whether you would like it in MP or not, you can extrapolate from the opinion you formed when watching the mechanic in play in the E3 footage. Just remember, nobody is complaining, this is the development stage, almost everything is constructive criticism.

waraidako
06-20-2016, 09:58 AM
So you are telling me the starplayers actually played a mp match with revenge mode ?? Also we cant be sure if the aesthetics affect gameplay yet sure its just a glow but take overwatch for example how would you know McCree is using his ult without the red glow ? Maybe its better to see if someone is in revenge mode half the map away so you can keep your distance untill it runs out ? Have you thought about that ?

I dont want to sound like an ******* here but we cant be sure about anything at this point. Maybe revenge mode is the best thing ever maybe, maybe the glow is important, maybe the battlecry is awesome, i dont know and neither do you XD.

How you could tell? The little music cue? Or in this game, the scream. The notion that you should be able to tell everything that's going on everywhere on the map at all times is terrible. It's just as bad as when people in FPS games complain that they can't tell at a glance whether or not another player 1km away is friend or foe. So what? Get closer and take another look, pay more attention. This hand holding has to end.

So without the glow you can't tell they're in revenge mode? Big whoop. Without eyes in the neck you can't tell if someone's behind you either, but no one complains about that. If constant awareness without any effort is what we're striving for, then why stop at glowing during revenge mode? Just have all of the characters always glow in their team colours so they're easy to spot. And whenever anything happens, text pops up on the screen, accompanied by voice over, telling you what exactly happend. "Xplix0r1337ninj4 has entered revenge mode." "ghostb0i1998 is 10 meters away from you on your right hand side and closing in."

It's like the grenade indicator in FPS games. For decades we didn't have that, and it was fine. No one had any problems seeing grenades flying through the air. You saw a little ball thing flying across your screen, you ran away. Easy. Now they added the indicator, and all of a sudden it's like everyone's had a lobotomy, and in any game where it isn't present anymore they ***** and moan to no end about how it's so utterly impossible to see the grenades.

There comes a point where the onus is on you to pay attention to what's going on around you rather than relying on the game to provide you with audio and visual cues.

Fatal-Feit
06-20-2016, 10:00 AM
So you are telling me the starplayers actually played a mp match with revenge mode ??

Nope, I wasn't there so I don't know anything. And even if I did, I'm not at liberty to say. It's better to ask one of them than me.


Also we cant be sure if the aesthetics affect gameplay yet sure its just a glow but take overwatch for example how would you know McCree is using his ult without the red glow ? Maybe its better to see if someone is in revenge mode half the map away so you can keep your distance untill it runs out ? Have you thought about that ?

I dont want to sound like an ******* here but we cant be sure about anything at this point. Maybe revenge mode is the best thing ever, maybe the glow is important, maybe the battlecry is awesome, i dont know and neither do you XD.

No, I haven't. That is actually an interesting point you brought up and I think it attests to why people are discussing the mechanic in the first place. As you said, most of us don't know how it fully functions and most of us don't know the reasons for the design choices, but that's exactly why some of us are here to discuss it.

premiumart
06-20-2016, 10:11 AM
I think it's fair enough for people to share their like/ dislike of a feature in the game, based on what they have seen from E3, it's not whining, it's constructive criticism, the Devs read these forums, so if the general consent is that people didn't like the aesthetics/ mechanics of the rage ability they may then tone it down or change it before the Alpha. You don't necessarily need to play with this mechanic in a multiplayer match to form an opinion on whether you would like it in MP or not, you can extrapolate from the opinion you formed when watching the mechanic in play in the E3 footage. Just remember, nobody is complaining, this is the development stage, almost everything is constructive criticism.

You are absolutely right i am not denying everyones opinion on this or any other matter all i wanted to get across ( which is kinda hard for me cause im not a native speaker) is that there is still plenty of time for numerous changes and that an orange glow and a battlecry might not be the worst we encounter.

Guys i apologize if may comments seemed aggressive or ignorant. I just wanted to be the voice of reason and stop this from being a self fulfilling prophecy.

Fatal-Feit
06-20-2016, 10:43 AM
I didn't think you were being aggressive or ignorant, no worries. I understand what you're trying to say, which is that we should focus our discussions on other things with more concrete information, but I think we've already discussed everything else to a tee in the General Discussion at this point.

And I think people are more concerned about a new mechanic that could potentially change the way we battle than, you know, other things.

FLYINGvDUTCHMAN
06-20-2016, 10:55 AM
This ^
Thank you for putting it into words, we don't need all of this hand holding, we don't even need a stance indicator at all, just watch your damned opponent, oh you can see he is holding is sword on his right side? OMG what stance is he in? upside down? :O

DerHerbman
06-20-2016, 10:59 AM
You are absolutely right i am not denying everyones opinion on this or any other matter all i wanted to get across ( which is kinda hard for me cause im not a native speaker) is that there is still plenty of time for numerous changes and that an orange glow and a battlecry might not be the worst we encounter.

Guys i apologize if may comments seemed aggressive or ignorant. I just wanted to be the voice of reason and stop this from being a self fulfilling prophecy.

You made a valid point and didīt sound aggressive or anything. At this stage we canīt be sure what exactly the revenge mode is going to look like. Just discuss it a little bit and make our opinions heard. And its good to be remembered that its not set in stone.

DerHerbman
06-20-2016, 11:05 AM
This ^
Thank you for putting it into words, we don't need all of this hand holding, we don't even need a stance indicator at all, just watch your damned opponent, oh you can see he is holding is sword on his right side? OMG what stance is he in? upside down? :O

I thought about that exact topic! Do we need an indicator? It may look like we donīt, but beware what you are wishing!
What if there are some fancy combos and whirling actions where you canīt see or predict for sure where the attack is coming from?
What if the map is full of minions and weather effects and fire and explosions and falling cherry tree leafs and you canīt see exactly where the attack is coming from?
Or your facing 2 or more opponents at the same time? I think in this situations I will be happy to have an indicator.
Also in general I think less hut and ui is better.

Sir_Beefing
06-20-2016, 12:04 PM
This ^
Thank you for putting it into words, we don't need all of this hand holding, we don't even need a stance indicator at all, just watch your damned opponent, oh you can see he is holding is sword on his right side? OMG what stance is he in? upside down? :O

I do agree that the game could use some changes to the UI and HUD however, you have to consider the fact that most of the people on this forum are going to be putting countless hours into the game including myself. For the more casual play most of the HUD elements will be necessary. when it comes down to it i think that i would much rather see this game with large player bass and last for a long time then for the game to be come to challenging for some players because of a lack of HUD, as a consequence people may not play because of it.

HideoshiKaze.TV
06-20-2016, 12:37 PM
Revenge mode is needed. Do you know how hard it is to do a 2v1 or a 3v1? It's really really hard to do. You can only block one direction.

From what I played, it's nice and the knockdown is needed so you can knock one person down and switch targets to the other guy rushing you.

IMO revenge mode is a nice addition to the game. Go look at my AMA if you want any in-depth details about the game so far.

MathiasCB
06-20-2016, 01:37 PM
I didn't think you were being aggressive or ignorant, no worries. I understand what you're trying to say, which is that we should focus our discussions on other things with more concrete information, but I think we've already discussed everything else to a tee in the General Discussion at this point.

And I think people are more concerned about a new mechanic that could potentially change the way we battle than, you know, other things.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/6ceb3089da9eed06c62c8f8f6867d78f/tumblr_inline_muxkd6SV741s4kxph.gif





Revenge mode is needed. Do you know how hard it is to do a 2v1 or a 3v1? It's really really hard to do. You can only block one direction.

From what I played, it's nice and the knockdown is needed so you can knock one person down and switch targets to the other guy rushing you.

IMO revenge mode is a nice addition to the game. Go look at my AMA if you want any in-depth details about the game so far.

2v1 is hard but not at all impossible, I don't Think anyone should survive a 3v1 if not by running away.
Since you already block all attacks from the 2nd opponent by guarding his way, I feel thats enough,
Timing it all won't be that hard after some practise. Revenge feels way to strong for multiplayer, also... Magic!!

FLYINGvDUTCHMAN
06-30-2016, 02:53 AM
You shouldn't be able to 2 v 1 on anything but your own skill, you shouldn't get some kind of bonus for being dumb enough to get yourself into a 2 v 1

yote224
06-30-2016, 04:22 AM
2v1 and 3v1 's are SUPPOSED to be hard, no? You're fighting against 200-300% your capabilities in a worst case scenario. We already have the friendly fire/staggering that can trip up your friends if you're ganking someone, we already have environmental kills that will dispatch an opponent immediately, we already have spacing/zoning and even attacks that switch positions with your enemies. we already have the option to retreat to a more easily held position while outnumbered like narrow corridors or walk ways. The parry and block system already helps you out when outnumbered if you respond to the correct attack.

I'd also like to make a point on a hypothetical scenario that while the combat is what seems to be drawing everyone into this revenge mode mechanic we can look at why it was introduced in the first place. Which from what I'm gathering is because "Being outnumbered is too hard." This leads me to needing to point out that if you (the 1 in a 3v1 scenario) can retreat and focus on being defensive while possibly even contesting a zone of control during a 3v1 scenario and effectively kite them (you don't have to strike down a single opponent even) you are wrapping up 75% of the other team's real attack power giving your team the opportunity to: 1.Capture 1 control zone uncontested in a WORST case scenario or 2. Contest 2 control zones, 1 uncontested and the other at a 2v1 advantage. Meanwhile you die, woo. Which is worth more points? Who do you think is playing more effectively?

Personally I'm against it.

I'd hate to be close to shoving an opponent off an edge only to have him roll over me to change positions and immediately push his rage button to which there is no counter and kill me.