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Killerbrian26
06-15-2016, 07:59 AM
The idea of a shield with the current art of battle system seems odd to me, so I've been speculating on how it could be implemented into the game and here are some theories I've come up with and what I think the likelyhood of them being implemented is.

They're purely Aesthetic/Don't play into the combat
The shield is only used in animations when you would normally block an attack or only provides an armor buff.
I see this theory as the least likely do to how intuitive, bland and silly it would be. There would be no reason to have a shield other than the weapon that goes with it.

They cover a zone you are not
The shield covers one of the adjacent zones you are not. IE, if i'm guarding left, it guards my right.
While I see this theory as plausible, I do not think it is how Ubisoft will implement the shields do to balance issues like shield-users being overbearing.

They block while you attack
The shield covers the zone you attack from giving you protection where you wouldn't normally have it.
I see this as the most plausible way to implement the shield. I think it would feel intuitive and give reasons to play shield-users, while being relatively balanced. There is also some evidence to show this such as in the cinematic launch trailer (link here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSHXXks53YY ), around the one minute mark, you see a viking block a samurai's attack while simultaneously attacking him, though this was not showing actual gameplay. As well as this, in the vikings campaign mission they showed, a sword and shield using viking can be seen moving his shield with his sword, covering the same zones he guards.

Have a theory of your own or disagree with mine? Post a comment below.

Eiddard
06-15-2016, 09:34 AM
I think it will be different for knights and vikings.

I will not discuss the Knights because we have 0 information to work on, but we can actually see gameplay from the viking sword + shield(it is from an NPC).

Here we can see a right stance for the shield + sword viking.

http://i.imgur.com/TnH3M0x.gif

Here we can see the top stance, and I would say slightly the left stance.

http://i.imgur.com/xxrGzrU.gif

More gameplay

http://i.imgur.com/2cwPLnM.gif

And Click Here (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_tEkUbrBOIpkyV0Blf1VQPZ0DU8_lG2H) for a playlist made by me of videos about the same mision but all played by different persons, the guy with sword+shield always appears in the bridge part before the final boss.

DerHerbman
06-15-2016, 10:10 AM
I think it will work as a separate Block mechanism like in real life I think. The thing is that you most likely will have short weapons with the shield, so you can block and attack faster with them to stand a chance against long range weapons. So lets say you go into left stance. Your shield will be at the left side and your sword on the right like you said, they cover a zone you are not. The balance would be that you donīt have reach, but you are more covered.
You can see how he swings the shield when he attacks so I donīt think it will block while you attack.
I think the shield is also good for some special moves! Do you see whow he is holding the sheld over his head? Maybe he is then immune against arrows?
Iīm now going to look up some medieval shield fighting on YT :cool:

V4nClief
06-15-2016, 05:22 PM
I hope it's as we speculate and honestly would make the most sense.

Casp3r42
06-15-2016, 05:41 PM
It will likely allow you to attack and block from a direction simultaneously. He will likely also have combo's that utilize his shield as a weapon (shield push off a cliff? :D )

Altair_Snake
06-15-2016, 07:12 PM
My money is on it being cosmetic. But I was wrong about shields before. I thought they wouldn't be allowed in playable characters.

However I do expect the shield classes to have some defensive advantages, just not stuff that provides exceptions to the 3 directions thingy. They could for instance, have better parries. The guard breaks vary quite a bit from class to class, so I wouldn't be surprised if the parries vary, too. And they could also have abilities that focus on defense, like taking less damage, or healing (The Warden has healing).

EDIT: I also wouldn't be surprised if their Guard Break would deal damage by itself, besides allowing a free hit. It could be something like a shiled bash along with a cut. And then you'd still get a free hit (like everyone gets a free hit, apparently). The Warden gets two free hits and apparently two strong free hits if he throw you against a wall. The Raider has that very long carry-run and apparently a damaging wall splat and still gets a free hit after that. So, a damaging vanilla guard break doesn't sound absurd to me and it would fit the "theme" of a shield.

V4nClief
06-15-2016, 09:29 PM
I'm thinking it will be more integrated than just cosmetic left stick may control movement but if pushed in you might have free range to move it in any direction. Then again this is just wishful thinking as I'd like to be able to master both shield and sword as part of mastering the art of battle.

Sparley
06-15-2016, 09:34 PM
If you block a heavy attack you still take a small amount of damage. Maybe classes with a shield blocks all the damage?

V4nClief
06-15-2016, 09:42 PM
If they want it realistic even if you're skilled with a shield it should take something out of you on the lines of stamina. If I'm beating you repeatedly on the shield with a very heavy great eventually you're going to exhaust from blocking and im either going to break through one way or another or you better roll and recover.

AvarusTyrannus
06-16-2016, 12:55 AM
My guess would be that it works same as the other archetypes, but is more effective in some way. Easier to parry, no damage bleed, harder to stun, immune to projectiles....something like that.

Altair_Snake
06-16-2016, 05:47 AM
Aaand I was wrong yet again. A shield user can block all directions at once!

DeathsDestroyer had figured it out in his reakdown thread:

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1461874-A-Complete-breakdown-of-everything-i-could-figure-out-from-watching-e3-footage

But... it drains stamina. And I don't know if it has other drawbacks, like not granting you a time advantage when you block the attack. In the video, the player Guard Breaks teh enemy that tries it. I don't know if the enemy had released the turtling before the GB happened. Either way, I'm pretty sure a GB would work against teh turtling. Here is the video. It's at 2:47... from Eiddard's playlist.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iuW5rFnaG0&list=PL_tEkUbrBOIpkyV0Blf1VQPZ0DU8_lG2H&index=4

Sorry for not posting a gif instead. I'm still unfamiliar with it, even though some guys here gave me some tips. ._. And I admit I was in a hurry to post this.

You can see the turtling actually guarding an (NPC's) attack in 1:27 of this video. But it is not very clear. It's hard to tell what actually happens. The first block of what seems to be a fast strike allows the Shield Maiden to continue her combo. The second block, though, stops her, much like a regular block does to a fast attack. I don't know if he blocked left just as he was leaving the turtle (the HUD doesn't indicate that), or if releasing the turtle allows him to block normally (and stagger the enemy), or yet... if blocking the second attack does this.

And at 1:34, a turtler actually blocks two attacks at once! I'm guessing he has to time this stuff. Otherwise, my guess would be that leaving the turtling stance would be slow and make you a sitting duck against Guard Breaks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0HlFFUyWjI&index=5&list=PL_tEkUbrBOIpkyV0Blf1VQPZ0DU8_lG2H

FLYINGvDUTCHMAN
06-16-2016, 07:41 AM
Thanks for that, it should be really interesting to see how that fits into the multiplayer, if you could also block a side while attacking it would make the shield a lot more viable for fights. Turtling would only work in some situations, like when you know a teammate is on the way. If you could say, block left and strike to the right at the same time (or block left strike up, block up strike right, block up strike left, block right strike up) it would make the fights really interesting, one way to balance it is to make the shield user unable to dash so his/her opponent could use their longer reach to outplay the shield user, which would mean that the sheild user would need to look for fights in close compact areas, and avoid fighting in wide open spaces.

NephthysIV
06-16-2016, 08:02 PM
I believe blocking with a shield works the same like blocking with a weapon. Every other thing would be stupid idea.

shield user can block all directions at once!
This is woring. You only have to block the first attack, if you get attaked by more than one opponent in a short time window.
Like here. (http://imgur.com/AeGL7e0)
Picture is from this helpful Thread in the reddit Forum (https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/3p7xd7/mega_thread_of_things_that_you_couldve_possibly/).

Blocking a heavy attack does a bit of damage. You have to parry to block the full damge.
To give shields something special I like the idea that you block more damage with a shield. For example if you block 80% of the damge with a weapon, you should block 90% with a shield. Moreover you should lose less stamina from blocking and parrying with a shield.

And it would be cool if you can block projectiles with a shield, like the arrows or the throwing blade from the Oni samurai. You just have to go on guard mod and press R2 (heavy attack) in the right time to block the projectil. This would be probably a to strong counter to some classes. I lstill like the idea :o.
What do you think?

And sry for my bad english. I never liked to learn for languages :p

FLYINGvDUTCHMAN
06-17-2016, 03:36 AM
I believe blocking with a shield works the same like blocking with a weapon. Every other thing would be stupid idea.

This is woring. You only have to block the first attack, if you get attaked by more than one opponent in a short time window.
Like here. (http://imgur.com/AeGL7e0)
Picture is from this helpful Thread in the reddit Forum (https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/3p7xd7/mega_thread_of_things_that_you_couldve_possibly/).

Blocking a heavy attack does a bit of damage. You have to parry to block the full damge.
To give shields something special I like the idea that you block more damage with a shield. For example if you block 80% of the damge with a weapon, you should block 90% with a shield. Moreover you should lose less stamina from blocking and parrying with a shield.

And it would be cool if you can block projectiles with a shield, like the arrows or the throwing blade from the Oni samurai. You just have to go on guard mod and press R2 (heavy attack) in the right time to block the projectil. This would be probably a to strong counter to some classes. I lstill like the idea :o.
What do you think?

And sry for my bad english. I never liked to learn for languages :p

I personally would prefer to be able to block in one direction and attack in another at the same time, being balanced by not being able to dash, and having shorter range (Short sword/ hand axe), which would make fights more unique in that the shield user has an advantage in tight spaces, and a disadvantage in open spaces.

Yggdrasil_67
06-17-2016, 08:43 AM
Shields seem to effectively block attacks from all sides at the expense of stamina. I'm not sure how it works beyond that.

The way I see it, blocking on the wrong side of an incoming attack should still block the hit, but the attacker won't get the recoil of the hit, whereas if the defender blocks on the same side, the hit would reflect as with any other blocks. Same thinng with parries, too.

handheld brando
06-17-2016, 05:34 PM
I actually asked them about this when i was there and they couldn't really tell me too much about it so they may not be quite done with how its actually going to work.

FLYINGvDUTCHMAN
06-18-2016, 04:14 AM
I actually asked them about this when i was there and they couldn't really tell me too much about it so they may not be quite done with how its actually going to work.

I hope they take my suggestion to heart then, I think that it would make battles even more intense, they could map the shield direction to the left stick and keep the sword to the right stick, then when you click either the right bumper or the right trigger your shield will block whichever way you're moving (left stick) and you will attack whichever way your right stick is pointing (Some direction combinations wont work like left left, up up, right left, right right). These duels will be all about keeping distance for the longer reached opponents, and closing the distance for the shield users. Making the environment around the players, a huge factor in these fights, in open spaces the longer reached opponent can dash and dodge around the shield user, using their longer reach to rain down blow after blow without repercussions, but if the shield user manages to corner his/her longer reached opponent, watch out because when cramped for space, the opportunities to dash and dodge are few and far between, and the shield user will close in and their ability to simultaneously block in one direction and attack in another will begin to tell. P.S. The shield user wont be able to use the dash/ dodge ability.

NephthysIV
06-18-2016, 06:02 AM
I hope they take my suggestion to heart then, I think that it would make battles even more intense, they could map the shield direction to the left stick and keep the sword to the right stick, then when you click either the right bumper or the right trigger your shield will block whichever way you're moving (left stick) and you will attack whichever way your right stick is pointing (Some direction combinations wont work like left left, up up, right left, right right).
This system looks interresting, but I don't believe that we are going to see something like that, because it's so diffrent and complex.
Moreover I don't like the idea that the shield-user gets always free hits, if he blocks left or top. To block 2-Hand weapons you have to move and use your whole body.I can't imagene that you can block and attack effective at the same time. In reallife you would block and follow then with a attack.

I like the idea that you can attack faster after you block sucesfully with something else than your weapon you will use in your following attack. And the best thing is that Devs don't have to change anything of the fight system. Of couse you won't get the attackspeed bonus for the combination you mentioned like left left, up up, left right, right right.
For two weapon users the system would work also and you could block with the right weapon and attack with the left one. So you would have no blockdirection where you won't have an attack speed bonus in your following attack. The weapon users should have two buttons for blocking. One for an one handed weak block and one for a strong block where both weapons used for, but you won't be able to follow with an attack with speed bonus
.
Moreover the system can be balanced quite well, like adjusting the damge for blocking a strong attack with one hand. And you can only attack faster for two directions and the attack speed bonus shouldn't be so high that the opponent can't block them. If you parry a light attack with an one hand weapon you should stun/stagger your oppent and get one free hit with your fast following attack. Parrying a strong attack with one hand should only reduce the damage you take and don't stun the oppent.

waraidako
06-18-2016, 07:27 PM
Still not sure how I feel about samurai using shields. On one side, them not using shields is part of the myth of the samurai. No active protection, either you win or you die. It also makes them unique in a way, and makes them stand out as different from the other factions.
And on the other hand, in this world they've fought vikings and knights for a thousand years, they probably realised very quickly just how useful a shield can be.

Altair_Snake
06-18-2016, 09:34 PM
One thing to remember is that shields are OP irl. It's understandable if they can't be fully faithful to realism here.


Still not sure how I feel about samurai using shields. On one side, them not using shields is part of the myth of the samurai. No active protection, either you win or you die. It also makes them unique in a way, and makes them stand out as different from the other factions.
And on the other hand, in this world they've fought vikings and knights for a thousand years, they probably realised very quickly just how useful a shield can be.
If it's any consolation, I don't think the Samurai will have any of the shield archetypes, officially. Those Samurai with Shields in the Viking campaign were more a easter egg kind of thing, just like some of them were actually fighting like the Warden. In MP, I'm guessing the Samurai warriors will not have shields.

FLYINGvDUTCHMAN
06-19-2016, 05:10 AM
One thing to remember is that shields are OP irl. It's understandable if they can't be fully faithful to realism here.


If it's any consolation, I don't think the Samurai will have any of the shield archetypes, officially. Those Samurai with Shields in the Viking campaign were more a easter egg kind of thing, just like some of them were actually fighting like the Warden. In MP, I'm guessing the Samurai warriors will not have shields.

If it's any consolation, I don't think the Samurai will have any of the shield archetypes, officially. Those Samurai with Shields in the Viking campaign were more a easter egg kind of thing, just like some of them were actually fighting like the Warden. In MP, I'm guessinghoping the Samurai warriors will not have shields.

:D

AvarusTyrannus
06-19-2016, 05:23 AM
If it's any consolation, I don't think the Samurai will have any of the shield archetypes, officially. Those Samurai with Shields in the Viking campaign were more a easter egg kind of thing, just like some of them were actually fighting like the Warden. In MP, I'm guessinghoping the Samurai warriors will not have shields.

:D
I think the art of battle samurai with shields, let's call them AOB Minions for short, are just a singleplayer feature. My guess would be that they borrow shield mechanics from the shield wielding hero classes, but are really only their to mix up the type of enemies you can encounter during singleplayer.

MisterWillow
06-19-2016, 08:22 AM
I stand behind everything I said over here (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1183119-please-fix-the-UI!-and-other-general-critiques?p=10872409&viewfull=1#post10872409).

Shields will at least be the primary method of blocking at least two of the three positions, and will probably be used as the weapon on at least the shield side position and/or incorporated into combos.

BaconBusterYT
06-21-2016, 07:40 PM
Guys, shields have already been demonstrated in how they work. Go to about 4:16 in this video here;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MKlJd3VnRA&list=LLb1VZyMOT4ithrvZKPHSptA&index=23

See? You can "turtle" to block all directions, but it drains stamina over time. Seems balanced to me, tbh.

TripleJay_X
06-21-2016, 07:47 PM
4:33, AI at it's best lol

MisterWillow
06-21-2016, 08:46 PM
See? You can "turtle" to block all directions, but it drains stamina over time. Seems balanced to me, tbh.

That could only be one aspect of using the shield, or a special ability you have with a shield class. You might also be able to guard every direction individually, and in another video, you can see the shield-Viking uses it while attacking.

Here he is guarding right
https://media.giphy.com/media/XaZxGMwEOh916/giphy.gif

And here he is guarding top and attacking (it looks to me like attacks with the shield will be heavy and attacks with the sword will be light, just based on speed and implied power behind them)
https://media.giphy.com/media/3YuG1ALKwU372/giphy.gif

Eidard
06-21-2016, 08:56 PM
That could only be one aspect of using the shield. You might also be able to guard every direction individually, and in another video, you can see the shield-Viking uses it while attacking.

You can, you can see in several of those videos the Viking using different stances with the shield, same for those samurais.

MisterWillow
06-21-2016, 09:00 PM
You can, you can see in several of those videos the Viking using different stances with the shield, same for those samurais.

yep, after I posted that, I went to look and made some gifs to demonstrate (and edited that for clarity). I tried to make them before anyone else had posted, but I guess I wasn't quick enough. :p

hallower1980
06-22-2016, 11:59 PM
Another possibility is that shields increase the reaction time window for blocking, allowing the shield-bearer more leeway. The bigger the shield, the later the warrior can react and yet successfully block; but also with a penalty to offensive speed, strength, or manueverability.

It would be cool to see a knight with a tower shield matched against a viking with a buckler.