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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:28 PM
Ok HL regulars.. simple question...

How`s aircraft recognition going? Currently running FR server with limited friendly icons - 3k and padlock limited to 2k. Shall i drop icons completely? Will you join my game?
Those flying signs are bothering da hell outta me /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Wadda u say?

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
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"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub


Message Edited on 09/17/0310:29PM by crazyivan1970

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:28 PM
Ok HL regulars.. simple question...

How`s aircraft recognition going? Currently running FR server with limited friendly icons - 3k and padlock limited to 2k. Shall i drop icons completely? Will you join my game?
Those flying signs are bothering da hell outta me /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Wadda u say?

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub


Message Edited on 09/17/0310:29PM by crazyivan1970

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:32 PM
Range-only icons for all.

Also make the colors darker and enable padlock.

If no padlock, then black range-only icons for all.

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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:32 PM
I like Friendly Icons only, no Enemy icons.
I don't like having a neon sign over my enemy's plane.
It's just not right.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:34 PM
If you would change the colors of the icons, then there is no "neo"

It all comes down to the host knowing what he is doing.

Range-only icons are good because it makes up for the lack of stereo vision depth perception and they are small. Make them black or dark colors and you have a fun server.

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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:38 PM
Color i can change...no biggie... range only is possible too. I wish we had "dot" option tho. Not really big fan of knowing range to your opponent... will see.

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
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"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:39 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- If you would change the colors of the icons, then
- there is no "neo"
-
- It all comes down to the host knowing what he is
- doing.
-
- Range-only icons are good because it makes up for
- the lack of stereo vision depth perception and they
- are small. Make them black or dark colors and you
- have a fun server.


I was kidding about the neon sign. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Seriously though, I personally don't care for icons, regardless of size or color.



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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:40 PM
Limited friendly icons.


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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:42 PM
I prefer no icons or PL at all.

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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:43 PM
We don need no stinkin' icons!

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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:43 PM
I know you do MD.. just a matter of fairness to me. I do own trackIR /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
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"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:44 PM
crazyivan1970 wrote:
- Color i can change...no biggie... range only is
- possible too. I wish we had "dot" option tho. Not
- really big fan of knowing range to your opponent...
- will see.


Check with Raven (or is it Jimmy) one of them hosts with just a small black abbreviation as the tag, no range. If I had icons I'd have it like theirs.


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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:46 PM
BP Raven?

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:49 PM
I would like to have black range only icons with padlock, but padlock is not advanced enough by the developers.

If icons are on at all then padlock can tall friend or foe regardless of the mp_dotrange_COLOR value.

So if padlock is on then might as well use (dark) colors so people who don't use padlock aren't left out of the ID loop.

I don't like friendly only icons. Heck if padlock is enabled friendly-only icons are moot. (b/c padlock+icons switch=instant ID) Just give everybody range-only so all planes are represented on an equal level.

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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:51 PM
crazyivan1970 wrote:
- BP Raven?



Yes or JimmyG or maybe it was Hilts.
My memory is only slighly better than a watermelon's.
Just ask one of the limeys.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:59 PM
LOL Gem, will do

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
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"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 11:03 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I don't like friendly only icons. Heck if padlock
- is enabled friendly-only icons are moot. (b/c
- padlock+icons switch=instant ID) Just give
- everybody range-only so all planes are represented
- on an equal level.



They're not moot if the PL range is limited. Friendly icons will be visible before PL works. This saves on chasing ghosts.



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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 11:05 PM
Ivan, I thought icon no more worth debate and disappeared in forum long time ago.

Sure, definitely no icon. (or limited friendly icon. )

Why bring that old one?

You're giving RBJ a new life. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 11:09 PM
BpGemini wrote:
-
- RayBanJockey wrote:
-- I don't like friendly only icons. Heck if padlock
-- is enabled friendly-only icons are moot. (b/c
-- padlock+icons switch=instant ID) Just give
-- everybody range-only so all planes are represented
-- on an equal level.
-
-
-
- They're not moot if the PL range is limited.
- Friendly icons will be visible before PL works. This
- saves on chasing ghosts.

Can padlock range be adjusted? I know you say friendly only icons have use if the icons are furthur than padlock, but I would not enable the icons past the padlock range, and usually in "friendly-only" icons the host sets them at extreme close range.

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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 11:09 PM
Not to mention they give you visual verification of your wingman when Voice Comms are not available.


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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 11:18 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- Can padlock range be adjusted? I know you say
- friendly only icons have use if the icons are
- furthur than padlock, but I would not enable the
- icons past the padlock range, and usually in
- "friendly-only" icons the host sets them at extreme
- close range.


I believe g00se had set his PL range very close (I think he threw it away completely now). I don't see a point in setting Friendly Icon range so close, defeats the purpose IMO. WWII pilots would have a better idea of where his friendly pilots are located than we have with all icons off. No icons for the enemy and extended or normal friendly icons works well for me when hosting. I can take or leave PL. I usually have PL simply because people don't show up if you make the settings "too/more difficult".




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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 11:20 PM
Gem, i`m using g00ses settings for icons/pl, PL range is 2k if i am not mistaken.

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
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"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 11:22 PM
Friendly icons w padlock.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 11:24 PM
crazyivan1970 wrote:
- Gem, i`m using g00ses settings for icons/pl, PL
- range is 2k if i am not mistaken.


There ya go RBJ.
Thanks for the memory jog Ivan.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 11:25 PM
Ok, on the serious note... it comes down to:

One pilot`s vision (yong 20x20) vs others (old man eyes)

One gaming rig(top notch) vs other (system requirements)

Additional hardware (TrackIR) vs mice...

Tough call eh?

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 11:46 PM
crazyivan1970 wrote:
- Ok, on the serious note... it comes down to:
-
- One pilot`s vision (yong 20x20) vs others (old man
- eyes)
-
- One gaming rig(top notch) vs other (system
- requirements)
-
- Additional hardware (TrackIR) vs mice...
-
- Tough call eh?
-
- Regards,
- VFC*Crazyivan
- http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif
-
- "No matter how good the violin may be, much depends
- on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy
- pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub
-


There are even physical limitations beyond age and eyesight. Carpal tunnel syndrome in my wrist makes constant thumb-jockeying while maneuvering actually painful. Consequently, I generally stick to servers with padlock. Personally, I only use it in close, and am more than able to deal with the fact that there might once in a while be some dork who just constantly pans his view while repeatedly pressing the padlock key. To me, that behaviour seems like more of an annoyance than a rewarding advantage. If people honestly get enjoyment out of playing that way, more power to them. I'll take my occasional unfair death as fair compensation for their hours of button pressing.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

adlabs6
09-18-2003, 12:27 AM
Ivan,

I don't see a reason to totally disable the team icons, since if a player doesn't like them they can toggle them off on the client side. I never understood why some people don't assign a key (mine is NUMPAD_/) to the "toggle icons" setting. Just like padlock, everyone can choose whether or not they use it.

I have been thinking on settings of icons, and I'll post back here with a command line I've worked out in a bit.

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 12:42 AM
My icons say:

Shoot Ivan down; he's a lamer!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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adlabs6
09-18-2003, 12:54 AM
Ivan, here are the settings I have worked out.

mp_dotrange FRIENDLY COLOR 0.01 DOT 14.0 RANGE 0.01 TYPE 0.01 ID 3.0 NAME 0.01

This setting provides very little useful info, not even range or team color for friendlies. Only the plane number, and still this can be toggled by players.

By removing the colors, the icons are less obtrusive, and also show well against most sky and ground conditions. Though at night they are invisible, if you can select a middle gray default color and set that color to show out to the range that the icon ID appears, then this should show at night.

Try these out if you like, anc consider them yours. I would test/use them online, but I cannot host on my connection.

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:53 AM
Plain and simple: "no icon" is simply an egregious example of "uberdifficulty"; that is to say, more difficult than in reality.

The way the "specks" are drawn (or not, as the case often is), visuals in IL-2 are a simulation of a real WWII ace's vision *today*...when he's in his '80s or '90s. Unbelievably bad.

Given that our 17 - 21" monitors are projecting our total field of view, scaling a tiny speck several klicks away amounts to invisibility.

Therefore, icons are a necessary evil.

Do they need to be "thislongandcontainthepilotsnamerankandseialnumber"? No.

I like 3km type only for enemy, and 5km for friends, name and range to 3km. This helps simulate command control, coordination, and previous flying experience.

The net effect of such an icon setup is,
1) Planes stop disappearing into forest canopies while they're right in front of your nose.

2) You can use the advantage of altitude, and need not commit to going low just to see *anything*; this is especially a problem in no-icon settings over forest, sea, and seemingly the entire Finnish map.

Some people give friendlies icons, but none for foes. That doesn't solve the problem: you still can't see dots you should at medium range distances. Friend OR foe. So, it only helps you to find planes that are no threat. Not much help, and your tactics still suffer.

I sure wish the "full realism" nuts that run the full real leagues would re-examine the issue of icons and consider putting them into their setups. When you examine the rationale for icons and the limitations of monitors, the case for icons becomes clear.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 02:30 AM
Ok, i found a compromise... No enemy icons period, friendlies 1km plane type only, 2KM Padlock. VFC*HOST is up with Kuban map. All welcome /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 03:12 AM
crazyivan1970 wrote:
- I know you do MD.. just a matter of fairness to me.
- I do own trackIR

I don't have a TrackIR and have no intention of ever getting one. Hat switch on X-45 works fine /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . However I would like a set of VR goggles but that is still a few years off.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 03:17 AM
I would vote for no icons. btw, it's a choice whether or not to use visual aids, but it is not an absolute as some seem to imply. I always try and use the advantage of altitude and in this sim find it relatively easy to spot enemy planes over forests, water, or whatever without icons. Different strokes for different folks.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 08:34 AM
NO ICONS! NO WAY! NEVER!

I'd never join a club that would have ME as a member!!.