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View Full Version : FW-190 drivers, what are your impressions?



Hunde_3.JG51
03-04-2004, 05:54 PM
Anyone who flies the FW-190(especially the "A" series), let me know what you think after trying them out in AEP. Let me know how the change in flight dynamics seems to affect the 190 vs. other planes. I'm really interested in in whether or not people think the 190 flies/performs any better in climb, energy retention, etc. Any input is welcome.

My only comments so far is that I like the new complex DM alot, though my gunsight seems to get knocked out ALOT.

Overheat times seem a bit short compared to others (especially Spitfire), and the overheat seems more severe. Will need more time to check this out.

Roll-rate decreased at high speeds, which is nice/correct.

Less spread, better velocity and trajectory for MGFF cannons.

*Note, please no Ta-152 comments, good impressions of them have already been posted.*

*Note, if it is ok I will bump this from time to time so there is no hurry as I'm sure most are using their new toys http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.*


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Hunde_3.JG51
03-04-2004, 05:54 PM
Anyone who flies the FW-190(especially the "A" series), let me know what you think after trying them out in AEP. Let me know how the change in flight dynamics seems to affect the 190 vs. other planes. I'm really interested in in whether or not people think the 190 flies/performs any better in climb, energy retention, etc. Any input is welcome.

My only comments so far is that I like the new complex DM alot, though my gunsight seems to get knocked out ALOT.

Overheat times seem a bit short compared to others (especially Spitfire), and the overheat seems more severe. Will need more time to check this out.

Roll-rate decreased at high speeds, which is nice/correct.

Less spread, better velocity and trajectory for MGFF cannons.

*Note, please no Ta-152 comments, good impressions of them have already been posted.*

*Note, if it is ok I will bump this from time to time so there is no hurry as I'm sure most are using their new toys http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.*


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boohaa
03-04-2004, 06:14 PM
All I can add here is that there something real nice going on with the FM tweak.I wish oleg could give a hint as to what they did.

I am lining up easier in all versions of FW.

Maj_Death
03-04-2004, 06:17 PM
I didn't notice much of a change but I've only made a few flights in the F8 so far. Engine torque seemed uped a littled but that's it. Havn't been shot in it yet so I don't know about the new damage models.

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Hunde_3.JG51
03-04-2004, 06:20 PM
If anyone gets a chance, I would also be interested to see if you guys think the 190 holds more energy at speed. It seems like before if you even thought about a turn the speed would drop quickly, I think I can pull a little more now and maintain high speed.

LOL Major Death, I know what you mean. I had to slow down and let planes in behind me to test the DM.

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Flamin_Squirrel
03-04-2004, 06:29 PM
It climbs better which is good, but its too slow still. I got ran down by a spitfire in an A9 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

Zen--
03-04-2004, 06:31 PM
I've flown the A9 once and the D9 10-15 times over the past day. It's hard to say just yet in part because with the recent release of AEP there are not many servers up and few opportunities to get in 'tradional' fights against the benchmark adversaries.

The A9 seems to climb better than it used to, overheat is definately much faster than before. Thats about all I have to say on it I guess http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


The D9 feels better in many ways, but I'm still hampered by the new stall modelling. It's for sure I can't fly it quite the same way that I used to...the fine line has definately changed. Climb is excellent, I'd say in relation to other planes it feels correct, though somewhat slower overall mostly due to my feeling about the tweaked physics engine.

Scissors appear to be very problematic now because of the stall changes, but this is one area where I haven't been up against anything to need it yet and so is hard to tell for sure, but it seems much less effective than before. The rollrate has finally and thankfully been reduced, the plane is no longer rolling at mach 10. Stability is greater but the D9 doesn't seem to fly with impunity down low as it did before...it seems now you must really be careful and is closer to the problems the old A5/9 faced when caught low. Guns seem better to me, Oleg said there were no changes but they seem a touch more lethal if lined up properly, but much worse for high deflection shooting as far as I can tell at this point.

E retention is also hard for me to say...I'm still getting used to the new physics.



<S!>

-Zen-

Hunde_3.JG51
03-04-2004, 06:39 PM
Thanks for input, keep it coming as you notice something.

Zen, please post again at a later date if you get the chance regarding the 190A's. It doesn't matter when.

Flamin, I'm not sure that is possible, A-9 is very fast. Make sure to use 80-100% prop-pitch and don't leave radiator open. A-9 is capable of almost 590km/h at sea-level and almost 700km/h at 5,500 meters, thats fast.

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BuzzU
03-04-2004, 06:58 PM
You asked about the DM, so here's a little input. I like setting up a QMB with the Spit against the A5. It's pretty easy to knock out the Fw with the 20mm's, but it only has 6 seconds of them, so i have to use the .303's a lot. I've knocked out quite a few of the Fw's with the .303's, but I have to get the tanks. They mke nice flames. The .50's on the P-51 will take it apart pretty good though, but you need more than a passing shot to do any damage.

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FW190fan
03-04-2004, 07:49 PM
The one thing that truly stands out clearly to me now is that the more planes that get added, the more I love my Focke-Wulfs. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

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faustnik
03-04-2004, 07:52 PM
The new DM is great. Climb is reduced even further for all but the A9 which is going the wrong way. Roll still seems real fast. Overheat is fairly quick.

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Flamin_Squirrel
03-04-2004, 07:57 PM
Ok, just did a roll on test with a friend. Him in a CW spit, me in an A9. Starting at about 330kph, we sat in formation, then both opened the throttles at the same time to see acceleration/top speeds. After a couple of minutes, the A9 was doing ~460kph, the spit ~440kph, and there was only 0.8km of seperation between us.

Now remember, the spit V is '41, the A9 is '44. The spit V's adversary would more likely be the A4, which historicaly was (by how much of a margin i dont know) faster than the spit, let alone the A9.

So, which model is wrong? Imo i think probably both. The spit should be slower, the A9 should be faster. More testing needed to find out i think...

Hunde_3.JG51
03-04-2004, 08:01 PM
After some more time in FW, forget what I said about maintaining energy, its the same old &^%$. Planes like Yak, P-39, and now Spitfire can do 180 degree turn with virtually no e bleed and run you down (since FW-190 now overheats incredibly fast). I played with radiator settings and nothing seems to help, very hard to cool down engine also. A bit frustrated right now but it looks like the more things change the more they stay the same. If climb-rates of others were indeed reduced I may have to start thinking about flying the 109, especially in '42 where the A-4 is out-classed by most planes, especially now that you have to power down every minute or so to cool down. Like I said, a bit frustrated at the moment.

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[This message was edited by Hunde_3.JG51 on Fri March 05 2004 at 12:40 AM.]

VW-IceFire
03-04-2004, 08:04 PM
What altitude did you do the tests at and which Spitfire V was it (F or LF different than clipped and non-clipped)? You should also be getting better than 460kph in a level flight on an A-9. Was your prop pitch set to 95% or 100% (which gives you essentially full engine power, at least it does in 1.22).

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BS87
03-04-2004, 08:08 PM
Anyone noticed a diffrent bullet trajectory now? I seem to think all bullets don't drop off as much, buts more pronounced with the german cannons.

Flamin_Squirrel
03-04-2004, 08:10 PM
We were at about 3000m, CW spit (sorry, not sure if it was the low alt version). Prop pitch was set to auto. Also, after i checked fuel i realised i had 1/2 full tank, the spit was full.

As I've already pointed out though, the A4 was (historicaly speaking) quicker than the spit V, so whatever the small details of the test, the A9 should have left the spit in the dust. It didnt http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Hunde_3.JG51
03-04-2004, 08:14 PM
My speed tests on dogfight 1 map showed:

FW-190A-9: about 588km/h at SL

Spitfire '41: about 454km/h at SL
Spitfire '42 about 512km/h at SL
Spitfire(CW) '43 about 454km/h at SL
Spitfire (CW) '44 about 512km/h at SL

The A-9 will out-pace them easily. The Spitifres are not that tough of an opponent in their respective years except Spitifre LF in '42. It hardly overheats (like all Spits)and can maintain its speed incredibly well. It has good speed for a '42 craft and unbelievable handling. It is going to be a real pain in my butt. Spitife also seems very tough, at least AI Spits take alot of damage unless engine is hit. If the Spitfire IX maintains its energy and is overheat resistant (or maybe it just seems this way now that 190's overheat amazingly fast and are hard to cool down) like the Spitifre V it is pretty much over for Blue. Again, I am just kind of ticked off right now about 190 problems (overheat which is an absolute killer, and gunsight that is knocked out with almost any damage).

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Flamin_Squirrel
03-04-2004, 09:29 PM
430hph '41 Vb
430hph '42 Vb (CW)
490kph '43 Vb LF
490kph '44 Vb LF (CW)

520kph '42 A4
530kph '43 A5
530kph '44 A8
540kph '44 A9

I obtained these simply by running the QMB with each aircraft, diving at the deck, leveling off (and keeping it there with the VSI) and engaging time skip to make sure the speed settled.

Of course this doesnt tell the whole story. Acceleration is just as important (50kph extra top speed is not much good if your shot down before you can get to it), and i suspect this is where the flaw lies. The test with the spit vs the A9 showed little difference in acceleration. Given the A8 developed almost 800hp more than the spitfire V, i think this might be wrong.

Basicaly though, in the end, this is all conjecture, so its unlikely anything will change. I think this is a shame. Perhaps im not good enough a pilot to make use of the few advantages the 190's have. However, I just cant shake off the thought that, although regretably reduceing me to the rank of a luftwhiner, im flying a substandard plane.

Add this seemingly slugish speed to the new lethal spin characteristics and relatively poor E retention, it makes the 190s rather uncompetative. The reason i choose to fly luftwaffe is because with their planes good E fighting can be effective, but they also give you the challenge of having to avoid being put in the bad position that results if you get it wrong. I enjoy this challenge, but if you dont have the speed/climb/acceleration you cant E fight effectively.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see. Id like to see more posts by more experienced FW jockies to see what they think. Either way it'll be nice to put my mind at rest, or confirm my fears so i know im not paranoid http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

faustnik
03-04-2004, 09:44 PM
Any 190 version we have should easily outclimb the Spit V according to RAF tests. Unfortunately, it is the other way around now.

But, we are much faster. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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Hunde_3.JG51
03-04-2004, 10:45 PM
Have you tried shooting down Spits offline? Holy crap do they take alot of punishment. Engine is vulnerable but wings and fuesalage are like titanium. Maybe it is vastly different when flown by human.

I will say one good thing, the A-9 seems reborn which is nice since it is my favorite crate. My initial impression is that climb was restored and it feels great.

The A-4 is still a dog, outclassed by La-5 standard (with its ridiculous speeds at SL), the Spitfire LF.V (little e bleed, LONG overheat time), P-39N, Yak-1B, & Mig-3U fantasy plane. Any speed advantage is offset by the need to constantly cool engine & any plane will out-turn you (which is correct) and easily out-climb you (which is not). The A-4 in '42 should be a great time for the FW-190, instead it is the worst. Who knew?

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TexasGunslinger
03-04-2004, 11:01 PM
The A9 rocks!!!!
Better climb, smoother feel, heats up faster!

I just had a great nite (for me) on HL. I love new slightly adjusted A9 more than any of the new aircraft in the game.

Muzzle flash might be a little reduced ....

Oh yeah...had to edit this....THE GUNSIGHT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!

Engine most certainly heats up faster and must be managed tigher than before. I actually blew one last nite (almost never before)

I LOVE THIS NEW BIRD........BRING ON THE YAKS!

faustnik
03-04-2004, 11:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
Have you tried shooting down Spits offline? Holy crap do they take alot of punishment. Engine is vulnerable but wings and fuesalage are like titanium. Maybe it is vastly different when flown by human.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They go down fine online, got a couple tonight from a 190A5. The A5 is so fast you can decide the entire fight.

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Hunde_3.JG51
03-05-2004, 01:12 AM
Good to hear that faustnik, like I said I am just a little upset because I was flying 4 vs. 4 A-4 vs. Spitfire LF.V '42 all night (which I invite others to try and see if you don't think the Spitfire's structure is too strong, the engine is weak) and the AI can be damn frustrating between the super-unrealistic maneuvers it performs. I still say the Spitfire was taking too much damage offline though, unless engine was hit. Plus the AI never seems to really get crippled by stuff that when flown by a human would be debilitating so I'm sure online is fine http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

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[This message was edited by Hunde_3.JG51 on Fri March 05 2004 at 12:22 AM.]

Glassess
03-05-2004, 01:18 AM
All I know with the new gunsight posit I can see better my targets and I can hit them in snapshots now. The gunsight is much more useable now,this to me is the greatest thing and improvement in AEP over FB. Thx Mr Maddox and crew http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FW190fan
03-05-2004, 07:53 AM
I haven't had time to test the climbrate of the A-4 v the Spit V.

Haven't had time to look into the overheat because I practically never fly any FW190 over 95-99% throttle anyway. Very rarely do I ever need to firewall one.

The Spits do seem tough except for the engine which will burn right away when you give it a good hit. My first QMB ended with all 4 Spits gone and all 4 FWs rejoining formation and cruising home.

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JV44Rall
03-05-2004, 08:19 AM
I installed AEP late last night and got about 1.5 hours in on the A9.

Initial impressions were mixed. Better climb, slightly better E retention, but high speed stall seemed to be less predictable and induced a greater snap. DM is somewhat of an improvement, but I sure caught on fire a lot.

I was having a hard time with the P-38s, which were surprisingly nimble. I got hosed real well by "Dr. Korolov's patented P-38 turn and burn," coming soon to a server near you! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BM357_Raven
03-05-2004, 08:54 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Kinda disappointing news...

I really like the 190 (even though I am probably one of its worst operators) because it's a gorgeous plane inside and out and according to everything we read, the 190 was a plane that really put the LW at a better vantage point than it had been with the 109.. Everything I read about it seems to paint an image of god-like qualities compared to its contemporaries..

Of course, many of you here turn it into a dangerous weapon nonetheless, and imo it is not the dog people our fellow pilots treat it as, but still I envision an arch-rivalry between the 190 and P-51..

I've been vested in the P-38 since it came out and have little experience with any other plane including the pony, but perhaps, once I get over the P-38 (love it, love it), we can do some tests between the 51's and the 190's..

I think they are still probably a great match for each other. And further, it might be time to set up some missions that close off the other a/c and coax other pilots to really examine the nuances of these two "less popular planes" (that, btw, were probably two of the most talked about planes of their respective years of activity...hmmm...I wonder)..

As for the spit...My thinking is it will quickly become the party favorite once things settle down, and that's great since the Brits and other spit countries needed a better foot in the door imo. I'm glad they didnt bounce us with the fairest spit in the land...But maybe sometime nearing the release of BoB the IX will settle things...

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faustnik
03-05-2004, 10:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FW190fan:
I haven't had time to test the climbrate of the A-4 v the Spit V.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/SpitVvsFw190A4.jpg

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

RAF Report from Farnborough, July 1942. Comparing the Spit V to a captured 190A3:

"The climb of the Fw190 is superior to that of the VB at all heights."

"Under maximum continuous climbing conditions the climb of the 190 is about 450 ft/min better up to 25,000 ft."

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ACE.HOLE
03-05-2004, 10:09 AM
I like the new changes like the overheat timing etc. But the other planes need to be corrected with overheat settings. Alot of them can run full power and not overheat in 20min +

The 190a still seems to flip around like a weightless plane which is unaccurate but I'm sure you 190 fans do not want to hear that

Kwiatos
03-05-2004, 10:34 AM
Spitfire MkV from 1942 has better cimb rate. Se these link:
http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spitv.html

Spitfire F. Mk.VB with Merlin 50 engine has:

Maximum rate of climb 4270 ft/min. at 3850 ft.
Maximum rate of climb at 10,000 ft. 3800 ft/min.
Maximum rate of climb at 20,000 ft. 2320 ft/min.

Zen--
03-05-2004, 10:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ACE.HOLE:
I like the new changes like the overheat timing etc. But the other planes need to be corrected with overheat settings. Alot of them can run full power and not overheat in 20min +

The 190a still seems to flip around like a weightless plane which is unaccurate but I'm sure you 190 fans do not want to hear that<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


If you mean that there is no vertical loss of altitude when rolling, yes that still seems to be happening. Other planes seem to look more realistic (for example the P38 which has a noticable drop when rolling) but the 190's still seem to spin on their axis with only a slight nose down attitude...very little vertical sink during rolling.

-Zen-

JV44Rall
03-05-2004, 10:44 AM
"The 190a still seems to flip around like a weightless plane which is unaccurate but I'm sure you 190 fans do not want to hear that."

Hmmm. Zen, I thought he was talking about high speed stalls/snap spins (aka the "flip-flop").

faustnik
03-05-2004, 10:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kwiatos:
Spitfire MkV from 1942 has better cimb rate. Se these link:
http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spitv.html

Spitfire F. Mk.VB with Merlin 50 engine has:

Maximum rate of climb 4270 ft/min. at 3850 ft.
Maximum rate of climb at 10,000 ft. 3800 ft/min.
Maximum rate of climb at 20,000 ft. 2320 ft/min.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kwaitos,

Is this the Spit V 1941 in FB?

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Zen--
03-05-2004, 10:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JV44Rall:
"The 190a still seems to flip around like a weightless plane which is unaccurate but I'm sure you 190 fans do not want to hear that."

Hmmm. Zen, I thought he was talking about high speed stalls/snap spins (aka the "flip-flop").<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hadn't thought of that, I try not to use stalls as a defensive tactic, prefer to out E fight the other guy so my mindset is not on the fishflop http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Zen-

faustnik
03-05-2004, 11:00 AM
Here's my high tech chart of the problems with the 190/Spit models:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/190vSpitChart.jpg

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r0xtilux
03-05-2004, 11:07 AM
Thanks for the new desktop wallpaper, Faustnik. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Lazynerd
03-05-2004, 12:17 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Nice faust, hahah.

JG26Red
03-05-2004, 01:00 PM
LOL faust... oh well, 190 is always going to be porked, just live with it... stock up on the 30mm cannons and whale away when some idiot sits in front of you, then here them whine, why you using them cannons to fight fighters whaaa

JV44Rall
03-05-2004, 01:40 PM
Lol. Excellent.

Of course, if a Mk Vx (LS) with the Packard-Merlin 6.325 engine was used, the turn radius in the first illustration would improve by exactly 4 degrees per second at elevations less than 3,200 meters and a relative humidity in excess of 10%.

Plus, the FW in the second illustration has obviously been hit by a single .303 round. Hence, the rather sub-optimal flight path. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hunde_3.JG51
03-05-2004, 02:09 PM
Just in case nobody saw it the "auto" radiator setting in FW-190A's now acts the same as "closed" setting so that was cause of seemingly very fast overheats. This is accurate as FW-190 did not have auto radiator but cooling gills controlled manually by pilot.

Not sure if this was documented anywhere.

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[This message was edited by Hunde_3.JG51 on Fri March 05 2004 at 11:28 PM.]

Zen--
03-05-2004, 02:49 PM
I don't believe that it was, I made the same mistake in assuming it was still functioning in auto mode.

Glad you got that clarified Hunde, appreciate the effort you put in...now we have an answer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


&lt;S!&gt;

-Zen-

RedSpar
03-05-2004, 02:53 PM
OMFG faustnik! I think I split a rib laughing at that graph.

It's funny because it's true.

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