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Sigma 1313
05-17-2016, 05:39 AM
How would you feel about your hidden blade being customized? You could change different parts for pieces with different stats, including doing more damage, able to do double assassinations, poison people, have more time to parry, block more of the attacks, etc. I think this would be something interesting to include for the player to play more how they would like to.

cawatrooper9
05-17-2016, 02:45 PM
I answered "no" just because hidden blades have basically become the default of the series. Even if you have some crazy weapon combination, you can always count on your trusty hidden blade to get the job done in a pinch. By making them customizable, that reassurance is gone.

Though, I probably would have marked "meh, indifferent" if given the option, as in the grand scheme of things it's certainly not the worst thing they could do to the series.

MikeFNY
05-17-2016, 04:00 PM
I'll be honest with you Sigma, I did think about this last week but in a slightly different context.

One of the features I like about the series but that at the same time bothers me a little is the vast amount of weapons at the disposal of the assassin yet the ones used are always the same: hidden blade, sword and throwing knives.

And when another weapon is used there's not much difference in terms of end result.

I remember back in the days of Ezio when you could use a heavy weapon, a big axe that you could also launch at a guard. Fun, granted, but how many of us used a heavy weapon and not a sword? Same in Unity.

I believe the new game should, well, not necessarily force us, but demand that we plan beforehand before attacking an enemy, at least in certain areas of the map.

Rather than having 100 weapons at your disposal that you can browse in the game's menu, have them available in the assassin's hideout, making the hideout more personal and intimate as it was the case with the Monteriggioni Villa and add variety to weaponary. If I choose weapon "x" I know I can do something that weapons "y" and "z" are not capable of doing and vice-versa.

An example could be a very strong guard that cannot be killed with a throwing knife thrown from distance, you have to engage in combat using a heavy weapon. And by opting to carry this heavy weapon the assassin will move slower, maybe this should also prevent him from climbing certain buildings.

Clearly a problem could be: What if I see that I chose the wrong weapon after 80% of the mission, would I have to go back to the hideout to pick a stronger weapon and re-start the mission? Ideally the mission introduction will provide hints on what weapons to use and also maybe you can bring along a maximum of "n" weapons on your horse so in case of mistake all you have to do is go back to your horse rather than all the way back to the hideout.

cawatrooper9
05-17-2016, 05:50 PM
I remember back in the days of Ezio when you could use a heavy weapon, a big axe that you could also launch at a guard. Fun, granted, but how many of us used a heavy weapon and not a sword? Same in Unity.


I remember that I never once upgraded my armor or weapons (outside of when you're forced to by the main story) in my first few plays of AC2. I didn't really think the game was difficult to even merit it.

I definitely upgraded in Unity, though- the game heavily encourages it. If you have to upgrade your sword, why not upgrade to a spear instead, especially if it basically costs the same?

Personally, I like having complete control over whatever weapons you use. The Legend of Zelda/Arkham approach of finding ways to make the player utilize all of their tools is something that I can certainly understand the appeal of (and it's something that the Assassins Creed DLC has touched a lot more, actually) but I don't personally think it has a place in the main games.



Rather than having 100 weapons at your disposal that you can browse in the game's menu, have them available in the assassin's hideout, making the hideout more personal and intimate as it was the case with the Monteriggioni Villa and add variety to weaponary. If I choose weapon "x" I know I can do something that weapons "y" and "z" are not capable of doing and vice-versa.
I think that would have the opposite effect from what you intend. Lazy gamers (like myself) would never want to go to the hideout to get their weapons, so we'd be walking around with the default sword as long as we could get away with it. The in game menus are a little silly, but they remove the chore of having to do a mini-fetch quest every time we need a new weapon.


Ideally the mission introduction will provide hints on what weapons to use and also maybe you can bring along a maximum of "n" weapons on your horse so in case of mistake all you have to do is go back to your horse rather than all the way back to the hideout.

There should never be a "wrong" weapon for the job. Maybe certain ones could be more suited to certain situations (for instance, having a heavy weapon handy might allow you to prop a gate open to allow your recruits through) but an Assassin should always be able to make do with what is at their disposal.

Sorrosyss
05-17-2016, 07:02 PM
You kind of have this in Unity and Syndicate where you can choose your stats and appearance, but I get what you are suggesting is a stage further. Personally I'm all for it. The whole point to customization is to put your stamp on the character. The more options you have, the more you can do so.

I'd personally like to be able to alter the textures, details, decals and colours of every part of an Assassin's outfit. I see no reason that this can't spread to the hidden blade too. We've seen a fair few uses and variants over the years, some being used in sword fights, some being hookblades etc. Choosing to specialise in a specific function like that would be interesting I guess.

phoenix-force411
05-17-2016, 07:27 PM
As if Hidden Blades were not already overpowered by default. Sure, it'd work if the Hidden Blades do not possess insta-kill ability in combat, but if we're still applying the insta-kill, then no. I am in for customizing it cosmetically.

Sigma 1313
05-17-2016, 07:59 PM
As if Hidden Blades were not already overpowered by default. Sure, it'd work if the Hidden Blades do not possess insta-kill ability in combat, but if we're still applying the insta-kill, then no. I am in for customizing it cosmetically.

I was thinking it would give a little more damage in full combat, like how ezio would only swing the blades. But different blades can be used like Connor's Swiveling blade, regular blade, the notched blade (from the movie), a hookblade, poison blade, maybe a version of the connor's swivel that swivels into two blades (in opposite directions), etc. Each would have slight differences and helps in combat, but nothing over powered. And there shouldn't be a point where the player can't progress in any area without a specific upgrade.

In response to cawa, if it were customizable, it shouldn't take away the use of the blade. I don't mean customizable like swords and stuff. It'd be mainly cosmetic with small buffs, but nothing as major as a level 1 sword vs a level 10 sword.

cawatrooper9
05-17-2016, 10:38 PM
I was thinking it would give a little more damage in full combat, like how ezio would only swing the blades. But different blades can be used like Connor's Swiveling blade, regular blade, the notched blade (from the movie), a hookblade, poison blade, maybe a version of the connor's swivel that swivels into two blades (in opposite directions), etc. Each would have slight differences and helps in combat, but nothing over powered. And there shouldn't be a point where the player can't progress in any area without a specific upgrade.


Actually, I kind of like that idea. It's almost as if each blade gets an attachment, but otherwise remains the same: choose if you want rope launcher, phantom blade, hookblade, gun, etc, but the rest of the blade remains the same.. Not a bad idea.



In response to cawa, if it were customizable, it shouldn't take away the use of the blade. I don't mean customizable like swords and stuff. It'd be mainly cosmetic with small buffs, but nothing as major as a level 1 sword vs a level 10 sword.
I get that- my worry is just that hidden blades have always sort of been the great equalizer in these games. Again, it's not a huge issue for me, and I can totally see how people would want this.

MikeFNY
05-18-2016, 08:48 AM
I remember that I never once upgraded my armor or weapons (outside of when you're forced to by the main story) in my first few plays of AC2. I didn't really think the game was difficult to even merit it.

I definitely upgraded in Unity, though- the game heavily encourages it. If you have to upgrade your sword, why not upgrade to a spear instead, especially if it basically costs the same?

Personally, I like having complete control over whatever weapons you use. The Legend of Zelda/Arkham approach of finding ways to make the player utilize all of their tools is something that I can certainly understand the appeal of (and it's something that the Assassins Creed DLC has touched a lot more, actually) but I don't personally think it has a place in the main games.

There you actually describe my concern to perfection.

I find it funny that weapons and armour are there just for eye candy, for aesthetic reasons. I didn't play the Zelda series but yes, that's pretty much what I'm looking at, give me a reason to use all weapons at my disposal. I understand for some that would be a problem because it would kill the freedom approach we always had in the series but to be honest I'm not expecting the player to use all weapons in every mission, it could be that one particular tool has to be used only a couple of times throughout the whole game.

Remember, in a way the game did force us to use all tools in the past, through optional objectives. I don't particularly like this approach, it's bad design, simply because one can achieve the same objective with another tool so why use a smoke bomb when a smoke bomb can be avoided?

What I'm looking at is different: a part of the story where you either use a particular tool and a particular approach or else you will struggle.

This would indirectly fix the AI problem many have been complaining about. The AI is stupid, there's no other way to describe it. It doesn't make sense that you kill 20, 30, 50 guards and Templars - who are supposed to be intelligent and clever people - take no action to change their style and/or approach. So I say let's start the game with certain weapons, after the Templars change their approach, switch to a different weapon or style in order to counter attack whatever changes they made.

I would also go as far as saying that the Templars approach should change according to your style of play.

Have each and every mission start at the hideout where you, together with your team, will analyze the objective, the area and all approaches you can take. Choose your weapons. If you're a stealth-type player you might opt for the hidden blade(which cannot be removed), throwing knives and smoke bombs. You should be able to also choose the amount of knives and bombs, you can carry 5 but you can carry as much as 35 Evie-style, the difference is the weight, you'll be slower and struggle to climb buildings if overloaded.

Then start the mission.

And have the Templars change their approach according to your moves. If you're indeed a stealth-type of player then after a couple of missions they will be aware of your approach and will place more guards on roofs, yet keeping the same amount of people on the ground in case you opt for combat. This would mean that the hidden blade and throwing knives alone may no longer suffice, you have to change approach and as a result of that also a change in weaponry.


I think that would have the opposite effect from what you intend. Lazy gamers (like myself) would never want to go to the hideout to get their weapons, so we'd be walking around with the default sword as long as we could get away with it. The in game menus are a little silly, but they remove the chore of having to do a mini-fetch quest every time we need a new weapon.

To be fair fast travel and carrying 2-3 extra weapons on your horse would help. Also I'm not looking at having to travel for 5 whole minutes to reach the hideout. Each and every city/zone would have its own hideout, easily and quickly reachable by foot/horse.


An Assassin should always be able to make do with what is at their disposal.
But this statement is not entirely true if we agree with your previous statement that in Unity you have to upgrade your weapon or else you're blocked. You may argue that had you not upgraded any weapons/armour you would have still managed to complete a mission, maybe taking two hours instead of 30 minutes but my point is that there is absolutely nothing wrong in humanizing the assassin.

We've been through this before, I like to compare the assassin to a human being who can make mistakes, who needs help and needs training rather than a superhero who can battle his way past everything and everyone with whatever weapons he has at his disposal, McGyver-style :)

cawatrooper9
05-18-2016, 07:16 PM
I find it funny that weapons and armour are there just for eye candy, for aesthetic reasons. I didn't play the Zelda series but yes, that's pretty much what I'm looking at, give me a reason to use all weapons at my disposal. I understand for some that would be a problem because it would kill the freedom approach we always had in the series but to be honest I'm not expecting the player to use all weapons in every mission, it could be that one particular tool has to be used only a couple of times throughout the whole game.


As I said, I can totally see this appealing to people. It's just not my cup of tea.


But this statement is not entirely true if we agree with your previous statement that in Unity you have to upgrade your weapon or else you're blocked. You may argue that had you not upgraded any weapons/armour you would have still managed to complete a mission, maybe taking two hours instead of 30 minutes but my point is that there is absolutely nothing wrong in humanizing the assassin.

We've been through this before, I like to compare the assassin to a human being who can make mistakes, who needs help and needs training rather than a superhero who can battle his way past everything and everyone with whatever weapons he has at his disposal, McGyver-style

In Zelda, you absolutely need to gather all of the weapons and gear so that they can all play their part fit into their nicely placed puzzles. It's fun, sure, but it doesn't really work for all games. If you need a tool, you'll eventually get that tool- but absolutely nothing can help you until you get the tool you need.

Here's the thing about Unity: You can beat the game with the default weapons and gear. Is it hard: yeah, it's pretty hard. But it's doable, if you have the skill and the patience. And what's more humanizing than that?

Personally, I think that's a great forumla- let players decide if they want to upgrade their arsenal, or get by through mere force of will. But again, that's simply how I see it, I'm sure others will disagree.

Sushiglutton
05-19-2016, 02:57 PM
For me it's a no. I was not really a fan of HB combat. To me it has always been an assassination tool primarily. And as such it doesn't make too much sense to me to upgrade the blade as it's the skill of the assassin that matters most. Of course you can add some toys and so on. But changing various stats is not for me.

SpiritOfNevaeh
05-20-2016, 10:09 PM
For me it's a no. I was not really a fan of HB combat. To me it has always been an assassination tool primarily. And as such it doesn't make too much sense to me to upgrade the blade as it's the skill of the assassin that matters most. Of course you can add some toys and so on. But changing various stats is not for me.

Pretty much my response as well.