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Bull_dog_
04-04-2004, 02:03 PM
Alot has been written about Mk108's, 20mm cannons, and .50's being off in separate posts.

Overall, after flying AEP for a month, I am thoroughly convinced that damage modelling/strength of weapons is much less.

I saw some posts about Damage modelling doing more internal damage but less external... I think the .30's may have even benefitted...get more flaming aircraft, but the others feel like the original FB...that is worse and harder to get kills in. I'm not buying the "internal damage vs. external structural failure" explanation.

I have flown enough QMB missions now to know that my kill rates are consistanly lower than they were...and I don't think I've done better than 5 or 6 kills where every once in awhile, I'd nab 7 or 8. Too many missions, too consistant of output.

The kills I do get are aircraft that I get to smoking and they run out of oil or coolent and ditch. Very few planes just roll over or lose control...and I think all agree that the structural failures are down...hard to get wings blowing off.

I don't think I'm writing anything new other than I believe the issue to be a global issue with FB and I am hoping Oleg agrees and most in this forum agree and say so. Gameplay is at an acceptable level, but I prefer to kill aircraft when I hold a stream of hot lead on them for a couple of seconds rather than have to make pass after pass after pass only to hope AI or online kill stealers don't take them down while I wait for their slow demise. Not as much fun...

All data we use and all modelling is of the qualitative type...no charts or graphs to go by...purely "feel". My impression of combat in the air is that the weapons were more than capable of killing aircraft, it was seeing them, manuevering for a shot and most of all, actual gunnery...that is hitting what your aiming at that was the difficult part. Hosing aircraft down hoping they'll run out of oil is not how I imagine aerial duels to go. One pass kills did occur and not just with Mk108's.

Now...to change or not to change

Bull_dog_
04-04-2004, 02:03 PM
Alot has been written about Mk108's, 20mm cannons, and .50's being off in separate posts.

Overall, after flying AEP for a month, I am thoroughly convinced that damage modelling/strength of weapons is much less.

I saw some posts about Damage modelling doing more internal damage but less external... I think the .30's may have even benefitted...get more flaming aircraft, but the others feel like the original FB...that is worse and harder to get kills in. I'm not buying the "internal damage vs. external structural failure" explanation.

I have flown enough QMB missions now to know that my kill rates are consistanly lower than they were...and I don't think I've done better than 5 or 6 kills where every once in awhile, I'd nab 7 or 8. Too many missions, too consistant of output.

The kills I do get are aircraft that I get to smoking and they run out of oil or coolent and ditch. Very few planes just roll over or lose control...and I think all agree that the structural failures are down...hard to get wings blowing off.

I don't think I'm writing anything new other than I believe the issue to be a global issue with FB and I am hoping Oleg agrees and most in this forum agree and say so. Gameplay is at an acceptable level, but I prefer to kill aircraft when I hold a stream of hot lead on them for a couple of seconds rather than have to make pass after pass after pass only to hope AI or online kill stealers don't take them down while I wait for their slow demise. Not as much fun...

All data we use and all modelling is of the qualitative type...no charts or graphs to go by...purely "feel". My impression of combat in the air is that the weapons were more than capable of killing aircraft, it was seeing them, manuevering for a shot and most of all, actual gunnery...that is hitting what your aiming at that was the difficult part. Hosing aircraft down hoping they'll run out of oil is not how I imagine aerial duels to go. One pass kills did occur and not just with Mk108's.

Now...to change or not to change

crazyivan1970
04-04-2004, 02:18 PM
You will be pleasently surpised very soon. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

mike_espo
04-04-2004, 02:19 PM
Personally, I think DM is more realistic. Previously, it was too easy to get kills. Historically it was quite difficult. I fly axis, usually japanese or the Italian fighters. In my G.50, I can get kills with just the two 12.7mms. True it is more difficult, and I gotta get close <100m to get a flammer.

Just my opinion......

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

crazyivan1970
04-04-2004, 02:21 PM
Allow to disagree mike, i think current model is too relaxed. I think guns should do whole alot more damage then they do now...and that will change, very soon...which makes me happy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

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VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

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http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

mike_espo
04-04-2004, 02:22 PM
Awwww. You mean Ivan, that its gonna be easy to get kills again?

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

CaptainGelo
04-04-2004, 02:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mike_espo:
Personally, I think DM is more realistic. Previously, it was too easy to get kills. Historically it was quite difficult. I fly axis, usually japanese or the Italian fighters. In my G.50, I can get kills with just the two 12.7mms. True it is more difficult, and I gotta get close &lt;100m to get a flammer.

Just my opinion......

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's G.50? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Kwiatos
04-04-2004, 02:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Allow to disagree mike, i think current model is too relaxed. I think guns should do whole alot more damage then they do now...and that will change, very soon...which makes me happy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have 1 important question. Effectivity of weapons will be incrased in all side planes if only German planes?

Bull_dog_
04-04-2004, 02:35 PM
I'm really glad to hear that CrazyIvan... hope your sources are good!

I like the way things are modelled overall, but they damage thing went south after AEP. If I were to statistically figure kill rates I would say I've suffered a 33% reduction in kills and maybe as much as 50-65% rate of "immediate kills" ... what I mean by that are the non-smoker kind...that is planes roll over and crash or there is structural failure.

cool

mike_espo
04-04-2004, 02:38 PM
Ecco!!!!!

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

Kwiatos
04-04-2004, 02:39 PM
I have one important question. Effectivity of weapons will be incrased in all side planes if only German planes?

crazyivan1970
04-04-2004, 02:43 PM
Overall.

V!
Regards,

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VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

mike_espo
04-04-2004, 02:50 PM
Will robustness of airframe be modelled accurately then?

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

WWMaxGunz
04-04-2004, 02:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
You will be pleasently surpised very soon. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Woot?

Woot!

Kwiatos
04-04-2004, 02:58 PM
I hope so Crazy Ivan i hope so http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

zugfuhrer
04-04-2004, 03:52 PM
Some planes can take to much damage. The Lagg3 for example took 6-10 hits from a FW190A5 in the engine and it still flew on.
Then 15 hits in each wing and it still flew on.
5-10 hits in the rear fuselage. One elevator lost.

It seems also as every hit in the armour shield of the pilot is a HE or doesnt at 20mm AP fired from less than 250 penetrate it.

I think that the only russian plane that has a good damagemodel is the Mig3.

I am still waiting for a radiator damagemodel

Hunde_3.JG51
04-04-2004, 05:26 PM
Thanks crazyivan for the info/hope, and yes it does make me very happy. Great news.

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