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View Full Version : Burma, PTO or NO?



ploughman
04-30-2004, 03:43 PM
Burma was the forgotten war, will it be forgotten in this sim?

Read "Defeat Into Victory" by Field-Marshall Sir Wm Slim for insight into this incredible campaign that featured all of the the third hand equipment the allies had to offer (and Shorts Sunderlands! How brilliant would they be?).

We all know this is a PTO sim, and first things first, but a Mosquito and a map would be good to set us on our way.

ploughman
04-30-2004, 03:43 PM
Burma was the forgotten war, will it be forgotten in this sim?

Read "Defeat Into Victory" by Field-Marshall Sir Wm Slim for insight into this incredible campaign that featured all of the the third hand equipment the allies had to offer (and Shorts Sunderlands! How brilliant would they be?).

We all know this is a PTO sim, and first things first, but a Mosquito and a map would be good to set us on our way.

mike_espo
04-30-2004, 03:48 PM
Should be able to recreate CBI scenarios. Well have the P-40s and the Ki-43s Hopefully the Ki-27 too

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

ElAurens
04-30-2004, 03:51 PM
The RAF at Rangoon also had Blenheims and Buffalos.

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heywooood
04-30-2004, 03:56 PM
Right Elaurens.. dont forget the RAF in Burma.

ElAurens
04-30-2004, 04:08 PM
They also emloyed the Mohawk (Curtiss Hawk 75).

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mike_espo
04-30-2004, 04:09 PM
Didn't they have hurricanes too the mk2? or was that later.

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

ploughman
04-30-2004, 04:19 PM
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/1940s/Ratnagar01.html

Here's some info on Indian Hurricanes, including a IIc.

RAC_Pips
04-30-2004, 04:26 PM
RAF had a whole host of obsolete and ageing aircraft in the Burma theatre. Dragon's, Vildebeasts, Mohawk's, Buffaloes, Blenheiums, Hurricanes.

Only much later (late '43 onwards) did the RAF abtain more up to date aircraft eg Spits, Thunderbolts, Mosquitos, Beaufighters etc.

ploughman
04-30-2004, 04:37 PM
Quite so. The Burma front was the "leftover from any other" front front of all fronts, so a map and a Mosquito (I don't doubt there'll be no modelling of a Shorts Sutherland specifically for this aspect of the PTO?) would be the dogs bollo*ks. We'll skin, and import other aircraft for all else, but please, a map. Pretty please.

necrobaron
04-30-2004, 05:18 PM
I'd wager that if we don't get the CBI theater in the initial release,it'll be added in a later patch. I'd certainly like to see it.

"Not all who wander are lost."

DStrong86
04-30-2004, 05:20 PM
Here's some additional info on Tigers and the Burma War ...

Fei Hu The Story of the Flying Tigers - Frank Christopher (VHS VIDEO)
Sharks over China The 23rd Fighter Group in World War II - Carl Molesworth
Flying Tigers Claire Chennault and the American Volunteer Group - Daniel Ford

Phoenix Burma The Longest War 1941-1945 - Louis Allen
The Burma Road The Epic Story of the China-Burma-India Theater in World War II - Donovan Webster
Stilwell and the American Experience in China, 1911-45 - Barbara Tuchman

Spearhead A Complete History of Merrill's Marauder Rangers - James E. T. Hopkins
Wingate and the Chindits Redressing the Balance - David Rooney

necrobaron
04-30-2004, 05:35 PM
Thanks for the recommendations,DStrong. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

ploughman
04-30-2004, 05:47 PM
Hi, Don't mean to rain on your parade, but you're pissing on someone elseses. Most of What you've quoted(God Bless America etc.,) is reference to the least involved combatant in this theatre. Of the hudereds and thousands of Allied troops on this front most were Indian, the others were Commonwealth,and everyoneelse was Chinese. There was of course, Merryl's Marauders (a brigade, god bless 'em) and the transport planes that provided sustenance to the Yunan Armies but please note that this was not jsut an American effort.

I speak only in memory of another.

Here's some additional info on Tigers and the Burma War ...

Fei Hu The Story of the Flying Tigers - Frank Christopher (VHS VIDEO)
Sharks over China The 23rd Fighter Group in World War II - Carl Molesworth
Flying Tigers Claire Chennault and the American Volunteer Group - Daniel Ford

Phoenix Burma The Longest War 1941-1945 - Louis Allen
The Burma Road The Epic Story of the China-Burma-India Theater in World War II - Donovan Webster
Stilwell and the American Experience in China, 1911-45 - Barbara Tuchman

Spearhead A Complete History of Merrill's Marauder Rangers - James E. T. Hopkins
Wingate and the Chindits Redressing the Balance - David Rooney

Mr_Nakajima
05-01-2004, 02:15 AM
And for those of you who already have the two 'Bloody Shambles' volumes, look what's coming in October:


AIR WAR FOR BURMA
The Concluding Volume of The Bloody Shambles Series.

The Allied Air Forces Fight Back in South-East Asia 1942-1945

Christopher Shores

Publication: October 2004

Price 32.50
Size: 234 x 156 mm hardback

Pages: 500 inclusive of approx. 200 photographs, maps and tabular material

ISBN: 1 904010 95 4

http://www.grubstreet.co.uk/air_war_for_burma.htm

Mr_Nakajima
05-01-2004, 02:23 AM
...and you can perhaps still get

'The Forgotten Airforce: The Royal air Force in the War against Japan 1941-1945'

by Air Commodore Henry Probert, ISBN 1-85753-065-9.

It covers the preparations for war, South-East Asia, Burma and Ceylon. Recommended.

ImpStarDuece
05-01-2004, 02:33 AM
Burma in PF? Hmmmm.........

*Shakes magic, infalliable 8ball*

'Signs point to no'

damn, scratch that one from the list http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sigh, would be wunderbah to have it thoug as i love **** planes and here we havea theatre that is composed of almost nothing but.

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

DONB3397
05-01-2004, 09:36 AM
The 'infallible 8ball' notwithstanding, Burma would be an interesting and challenging map. There weren't a lot of friendly fields to bring down an a/c in the mountains and jungles of the area.

However, it appears that Singapore is as close as we'll get. If parts of Malaysa are included, it would work as a substitute, but I saw something in an earlier thread that suggested that Singapore would be on the eastern edge of the map. Can't seem to find it now.

LEXX_Luthor
05-01-2004, 12:45 PM
No! Burma and Singapore are NOT in "Pacific" and FP should be strictly USA/Japanese carrier operations blah blah (with Japanese carrier operations AI-only I bet lol)....

Well that is the Debate I am waging against in the IL~10 thread. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

ploughman
05-01-2004, 04:39 PM
Oh for sure Mr Luthor, but a map, a mere map, a trifling representation upon which we might rewrite military history, 'tis all we ask.

And...

Shoud there be a Brit Pac Flt carrier modelled then when the Malta map arrives, we can all play insane suicide convoy games 'till our wives leave. Think of the synergies, man, t'would be the twitch of a butterfly's wing.

DStrong86
05-01-2004, 07:20 PM
Keep recommending books ...

I'm glad to see you've posted some additional books on the Burma Theater, especially the British and Commonwealth Allies.

As you noted, I left those out of my list because that is an area I haven't gotten into as much. And being an American, I naturally started with those books that were an overview of the entire "Pacific War" or American battles or units with which I was most familar.

There's also a lot of great books out there by the Canadians, Australians, Indians, Japanese, etc but again I haven't got that far yet. I would imagine Amazon.com (the UK site) would have a greater listing of books from their own authors.

Thanks (Ploughman and Nakajima) for the recommendations ... now I need either a budget or a library card (and COFFEE)

SkyChimp
05-01-2004, 07:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
No__!__ Burma and Singapore are NOT in "Pacific" and FP should be strictly USA/Japanese carrier operations blah blah (with Japanese carrier operations AI-only I bet lol)....

Well that is the Debate I am waging against in the IL~10 thread. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, Burma should be left out. This should be a Russian sim. After allm, the Russians won the Pacific war!

Regards,
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/wildsig.jpg

DemonDelta
05-01-2004, 10:51 PM
Seems to me too many forget the endevors of the P-40 pilots who were on the front lines in the very beginning of the war untill Sept 11 of 1944 when the last P-40s of the 49th Fighter group traded in their work horse P-40s for P-38s.The 49th as well as others fought the Japanese over all of New Guinea using the P-40E,K and N model and did a great job at that. Not many remember that America's ace of aces Richard Bong started with the 49th FG as well and racked up most of his victories with the 49th FG. Yes I am an advacate for that group and yes I am the XO of a CFS2 squadron http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'm one of those CFS2 holdouts as well.. lol