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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 09:36 AM
Has anyone an NTRK example of a spral climb move resulting in a kill?

Much appreciated.

Thanks.

Mark

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 09:36 AM
Has anyone an NTRK example of a spral climb move resulting in a kill?

Much appreciated.

Thanks.

Mark

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 10:24 AM
http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/webfiles/G2_spiralclimb.zip

it is trk version, but for all who replayed it, it worked ok. I have also ntrk version of it as a backup, but it is quite big (1,5MB) and not uploaded.



<center>http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/pictures/sig_il2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 10:48 PM
Thx a bunch.

I've studied it and it's some awesome shooting there. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Can you just advise was all settings on FR?

and what skill level were the unfortunates following you.

Mark

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 04:38 AM
May I throw in som comments here, I´ve also tried and died with the spiralclimb many times.

One important thing is to not make it too steep or make the spiral too tight, beacause then the enemy has just to climb almost straight with you, with all the liftingpower of his wingslevel. You on the other hand is compromising your liftingpower...

So what I´ve found to be the best is a 45 degree climb angle and a 45 degree roll angle as well. More or less. You will have to make corrections for the roll angle as you climb and loose speed. Now, the important thing here is to make this climbturn as hard as you can! Don´t expect to just sail away from him with some kind of sundaydriving. You´ll have to know and use the maximum performance of your aircraft. Then you just continue until you see him fall off, or else you just continue until you both do it. I prefer to put flaps out below 200km/h (takeoffflaps).

Another question is to know when it´s safe to do this manouver. A general rule is when you know his energy is at a clear disadvantage. Even if your 109 is superiour in the spiraldepartment it doesn´t really show off until the end if your speeds are equal from the start. In the mean time he can put alot off bullets in you. You my shake him though if you make the manouver as hard and perfect as possible, but it´s risky.

Situations where he comes into you from a high angle off, and thus has to burn E to get on your six, is a good indication that the HARD spiralclimb may be pretty safe. Also if you are turning quite fast.. take a G10 as an example which to me seems to have a cornerspeed around 370km/h. Let´s say you are turning with this speed and have a Yak on your six, but he´s turning well inside you since his cornerspeed and turnradius is much smaller. Then you know his speed is lower than yours and the HARD spiralclimb is again safe to do.

------

There is also the gentle spiralclimb, but it works best the higher the speed, in merge situations - and asuming that the enemy then tries a leadturn on you (high angle off attacks from the foe is also a consideration). At the merge you make a gentle leftturning climb in lets say 500-550km/h, almost only using the default trim to pull you up and just rolling a bit. You continue this gentle sprialclimb until the speed falls off to cornerspeed, in case of the G10 370km/h. The you start a slightly slicedown turn maintaining this speed, you´ll see what happens. You will actually outturn that poor Yak3 since he doesn´t have the energy to both pull G´s and stay with you. This gives you the initiative.

I actually got the idea to this when flying offline and slowing down too much behind an enemy just to keep the gunssolution. Somewhere my speed got less than his, he escaped and just started to cirle above me. In that case there´s abolutley nothing I can do to touch him. I´m sure you all experienced this some time. That´s the principle used in the gentle climbturn. You fool the enemy into a situation where it´s impossible for him to touch you without disengaging. And as the AI tries a lead or pure pursuit on you doesn´t make things any better for him...

If you try this online/offline it could be a slow process, you may have to take him round for 3-7 circles before saddled up on his six, but most disengage well before that.

F16_Filur @ yahoo.se



Message Edited on 10/24/0304:22PM by F16_Filur

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 08:50 AM
For me, this isn't one type of climb at thus-and-so angle and speed. It's a series of them. I advise starting the turn and climb gently, to suck the enemy in. Then, as he gets closer, and thinking how you look like a juicy grape, make a little tighter turn, a little steeper climb. Add in a touch of flaps for stability. Watch him behind your wingline. And watch his nose. As he raises his nose, imagine turning just enough to fly "over his head". Just keep it so he has to keep raising his nose to get a shot at you...but he's steady losing E every second...until he realizes he's been had. Then you roll deeply into your turn, drop flaps and pull down into him and on his six. If you've really done it to perfection, and he stalls out directly under you, you might have a full planform snapshot if you do your hammerhead right.

The spiral climb 'rope a dope' is like slowly drawing a noose around your enemy's neck. It is so sweet when it works.

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 09:33 AM
Thx for comments - cut and pasted for reference.

When I get it right, enemy is a floundering, floating mess all right /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Mark

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 12:22 PM
markh wrote:
- Thx a bunch.
-
- I've studied it and it's some awesome shooting
- there. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- Can you just advise was all settings on FR?
-
- and what skill level were the unfortunates following
- you.
-
- Mark
-

I had externals on and the enemies were of average skill.



<center>http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/pictures/sig_il2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 03:02 PM
I find it very hard to determine if the bog has a gunssolution or not.... in that exact thin line way you are descrbing, but I guess it´s possible with practice. Also I don´t know when you have time for such a delicate manouver.. it seems for you it´s a proactive manouver, but for me the hard turning climb is a defence I do when under certain attacks. Not the kind of attacks that demands imidiate evasive action, but medium kind of attacks/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif .

Your spiral climb is more in the manner of the gentle climb I described, you still have the initiative and can choose this style among other options. Very proactive. How do you know when to pull this trick? Clearly you must know you have the E advantage or you just trust on the flightmodel alone?


Stiglr wrote:
- For me, this isn't one type of climb at thus-and-so
- angle and speed. It's a series of them. I advise
- starting the turn and climb gently, to suck the
- enemy in. Then, as he gets closer, and thinking how
- you look like a juicy grape, make a little tighter
- turn, a little steeper climb. Add in a touch of
- flaps for stability. Watch him behind your wingline.
- And watch his nose. As he raises his nose, imagine
- turning just enough to fly "over his head". Just
- keep it so he has to keep raising his nose to get a
- shot at you...but he's steady losing E every
- second...until he realizes he's been had. Then you
- roll deeply into your turn, drop flaps and pull down
- into him and on his six. If you've really done it to
- perfection, and he stalls out directly under you,
- you might have a full planform snapshot if you do
- your hammerhead right.
-
- The spiral climb 'rope a dope' is like slowly
- drawing a noose around your enemy's neck. It is so
- sweet when it works.
-
-