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DanHibikiFanXM
04-10-2016, 03:37 AM
So, I don't think this topic or subject has been approached but it's something I've been thinking about lately while replaying some missions in Summit Strike. In nearly every shooting game out now whenever you reload you'll always have a full magazine until you start getting to the last few rounds in your main ammo pool, right? In the old GR titles (I think GRAW was the last one with this feature) the games would keep track of your magazines and how many rounds were expended in each one. If you reloaded with 14 rounds in a magazine you would keep that mag with 14 rounds - it wouldn't autofill. You would always get a full mag every time you reloaded until all the full mags were gone. Once the full mags were gone then the partially empty mags would start cycling.

It's an interesting and realistic feature, but one that seems to get overlooked. It brings an added dimension to firefights because it might not necessarily be a good idea to reload after every single engagement - especially if ammo resupply crates are few and far between. Nothing induces quite the panic of reloading and expecting a full mag but getting one with 9 rounds in it.

What do you all think? Do you want this legacy/classic feature to come back? I know I do.

SuperBiscotCOT
04-10-2016, 12:49 PM
It's also a good method to counter rushers. They are just running and realoading when they killed one ennemy. With this system at the end of their mission they would be in a bad position with only Half-loaded magazines they already used or even worst.

The only problem/disagreeable thing about it : it's when you have mags with onlky 2~4 Bullets in. I think that in this case the game should have in gameplay options the possibility to : "not reuse mags with less than [and you have to enter the number of bullets]"

SuperBiscotCOT
04-10-2016, 03:36 PM
Clearly something that should be suggested to devs ;)

ES-Ulukai
04-10-2016, 05:11 PM
Depends on difficulties modes, in many games when you choose to play in higher difficulty or in hardcore mode in multiplayer, when you reload when there's still ammo in the magazine, you loose that ammo because you throw the magazine away and continue moving forward.

DanHibikiFanXM
04-11-2016, 03:32 AM
^ Yeah, and to me that makes no sense and is actually worse than having an auto-fill ammo pool. Why would you throw away a partially empty magazine upon reload? I guess it would be okay if there was some kind of in-depth reload system where you could have the option of a fast reload that dumps the mag on the ground, or a slower reload where the character puts the partially empty mag back into a pouch or something. Maybe it could operate like the standard/slow reload works by hitting the reload button like normal, or you could do a double tap on the reload button to cancel the full animation so that your character drops the outgoing mag and puts a fresh one in as fast as possible. That might be interesting.

GiveMeTactical
04-12-2016, 03:05 AM
Again... Options

I would not mind having options on the different modes to make it more immerse and make you think about your ammo before you go Ramboning your way through the village. I know I tend to hit a few baddies and immediately reload just to be ready. This would make me rethink and go back to a more tactical way, conserve my ammo, 1 shot or burst instead of spray and pray, etc.

Lolssi
04-12-2016, 07:51 AM
I'm one those that reloads after combat seems to be over just to keep my magazine full in games. I loved the mechanic of circling magazines made the combat way more fun. Definately want that mechanic again.
Also why would anyone ever throw away empty magazine? Those things don't grow on trees. You got dump pouch for that.

SuperBiscotCOT
04-12-2016, 09:59 AM
And this is why you would be able to ressuply your empty or half-loaded magazines. But you have to take the time to do it and not during a firefight.

Sp--pyBrown
04-12-2016, 04:14 PM
+1 to OP's idea. Ammo pools are gross:s

I think for simplicity's sake we could assume that ammo comes already loaded in magazines, thus, no need for keeping empty magazines. They could also code/animate changing empty mag as a speed reload and changing a partially loaded mag as a tactical reload.

It doesn't need to be more complicated than that.

jeannaq
04-12-2016, 05:17 PM
I'm one those that reloads after combat seems to be over just to keep my magazine full in games. I loved the mechanic of circling magazines made the combat way more fun. Definately want that mechanic again.
Also why would anyone ever throw away empty magazine? Those things don't grow on trees. You got dump pouch for that.

Exactly, and there has been plenty of times in history that has proven this. Where when an ammo resupply comes it is next to useless because all the ammo is on stripper clips or loose and all the magazines were scattered across the ground.

alpha-strik1959
04-15-2016, 01:10 AM
I remember this feature in Summit Strike and miss it. Yes I would like to see a return to this, reloading only to see that the new mag is only half full led to some funny and tense moments.

UbiKeeba
04-18-2016, 02:11 PM
I am an obsessive compulsive reloader. I reload every chance I get. I'm so paranoid about a clip running out it isn't even funny.

DanHibikiFanXM
04-18-2016, 04:18 PM
I am an obsessive compulsive reloader. I reload every chance I get. I'm so paranoid about a clip running out it isn't even funny.

Oh, I am too in every other game I play so I understand. When it takes 5+ rounds to drop someone it's never a good idea to not reload especially when you know you'll always have a full mag on every reload - combine that with the fact PvP in particular is so chaotic and unpredictable it's almost suicide to not reload since you never know when somebody will pop out. Going back and playing GR2 and SS though, even for a little bit, has gotten me to be a lot less paranoid. I think it comes down to a few reasons:

1.) High Lethality - you could consistently drop enemies back in the day with 1-3 rounds which inspires a lot more confidence AND rewards semi-auto shooting.
2.) Longer Engagement Distances - You have breathing room so there's time to reload if a situation goes sideways.

Generally speaking, I've trained myself to not reload when I'm between objectives or traversing open ground since those two reasons above are in play. When I get near an objective, notice the terrain becoming much closer quarters, or suspect there's going to be a big firefight, that's when I'll top off. Generally speaking this method works well especially since GR2 and SS were pretty liberal with ammo crate locations so it's not a problem to have a fresh supply of magazines.

It takes a bit but it's not so hard to correct years of bad shooting game tropes and mechanics with a few missions. :D

UbiKeeba
04-18-2016, 04:25 PM
It takes a bit but it's not so hard to correct years of bad shooting game tropes and mechanics with a few missions. :D

Yeah... I'll admit it... I'm also an obsessive compulsive strafer. I no longer ever walk anywhere in a straight line... side to side all day. lol I also will randomly crouch a lot... gotta make it as hard to hit me as possible.

GiveMeTactical
04-19-2016, 12:56 AM
GRAW was the overkill side of things when you couldn't pick up another weapon from a fallen enemy and sometimes you couldn't find a weapon's cache to top off but I am with you, in today's games when you need to unload a full mag to drop a baddy, I find myself reloading every kill or every chance I get, even if I am sporting an SMG and it annoys the hell out of me but I have gotten used to do that. Back in the days of OGR, I almost never use full auto, me weapon was usually in single shot or burst when it came to CQBs because it was enough... I wish the devs go back to that in this game, otherwise, it will be another potential game going to waste.

NightJackal1
04-22-2016, 03:58 AM
So, what if this mechanic returns with depleted mags with a function to consolidate ammo when not actively engaged? For example, you come across an enemy patrol while doing some recon and reload twice during the firefight. Afterwards, you leave the area (200 meter minimum?) or kill all combatants ending the engagement. Once no longer engaged you can consolidate ammo refilling mags. If you had a mag with 17 rounds and another with 15 rounds, you would get a full 30 and a remnant 2 rounder.

In the military and law enforcement they are trained to keep partial mags when doing a tactical reload (reloading when not empty). Some use dump bags to throw mags in so they aren't just dropping mags or mixing them with full mags in pouches.

Nonetheless, I like the idea of tactical reloads and partial mags. This adds another level of realism and strategy which made the legacy GR's unique and fun.

GiveMeTactical
04-24-2016, 10:43 PM
Replaying GRAW2 right now and I find myself out of ammo in the first quarter of the map with all the reloading I am used to doing. I am in the 3rd or 4th mission now and changing to single shot and not reloading until I have 3 or less bullets has helped me tremendously and I can tell you that it adds to the immersion because you have to concentrate on that as well.

nos1E9
08-10-2017, 05:00 PM
I agree

FerroMortem
08-10-2017, 10:24 PM
I agree with the OP (& have thought it should be a staple of shooters for some time now) ammo/magazine retention should definitely be incorporated based on rounds expended in a given magazine.

biomag83
08-11-2017, 07:33 AM
So on one hand I absolutely agree it should be in there, on the other hand I see a couple of things that make this sadly redundant...

1. Have you ever used more than 10-25% of your bullets on a single mission? In other words, except for the AR-reload-spaming after each kill, who cycles through more than 3 mags during a firefight?
2. How often do you grab ammo at crates? Even if I just pick them up at rebel camps I hardly ever am lower than ~70% of my ammo before having a chance to resupply - again the amount of clips would prevent me from noticing that feature.
3. Picking up ammo from dead bodies - basically its even hard to not be at full ammo all the time because of this annoying feature.

Now add to it the problem of class based bullet pools instead of proper amount of clips based on caliber and whatnot and I think we can savely say that the whole ammo system needs a serious re-work before this feature would make any real sense.

CalicoBuckle
08-11-2017, 01:24 PM
Would it be too much trouble to add more attachments to certain weapons? I love the selection, but there's always room for improvement. For example, I think the Type 95 and SASG-12 could use some DRUM MAGAZINES.

DanHibikiFanXM
08-11-2017, 03:28 PM
So on one hand I absolutely agree it should be in there, on the other hand I see a couple of things that make this sadly redundant...

1. Have you ever used more than 10-25% of your bullets on a single mission? In other words, except for the AR-reload-spaming after each kill, who cycles through more than 3 mags during a firefight?
2. How often do you grab ammo at crates? Even if I just pick them up at rebel camps I hardly ever am lower than ~70% of my ammo before having a chance to resupply - again the amount of clips would prevent me from noticing that feature.
3. Picking up ammo from dead bodies - basically its even hard to not be at full ammo all the time because of this annoying feature.

Now add to it the problem of class based bullet pools instead of proper amount of clips based on caliber and whatnot and I think we can savely say that the whole ammo system needs a serious re-work before this feature would make any real sense.

Keep in mind I wrote this original post before we knew anything about Wildlands (April, 2016). Somebody bumped this thread from beyond the grave.

biomag83
08-11-2017, 03:47 PM
Oh, sorry, didn't notice it, as it wasn't directed at you specifically :) But I am still in favor of a re-worked ammo system :)

DanHibikiFanXM
08-11-2017, 04:38 PM
Oh it's totally cool, I just wanted to point out the context for this original post to explain why it wasn't as thorough as it would have been had I made it post release. I'm of the mindset that ammunition types, pools, and gear in general were not handled well in this game at all - obviously to appeal to and empower more casual gamers that just want to shoot things rather than appeal to more hardcore fans whom appreciate a bit more detail and thought.

DevilSpike
08-11-2017, 10:05 PM
Keep in mind I wrote this original post before we knew anything about Wildlands (April, 2016). Somebody bumped this thread from beyond the grave.

Good thing you pointed that out, I was reading through here and honestly didn't notice how old the OP was. lol. Anyways, it is still a valid topic though, and definitely worth discussing. Probably not going to be added as a feature into GRW, but at least the devs might consider bringing back this feature for future titles.

As others have pointed out, the magazine/ammunition conservation would be a perfect fit for 'extreme' difficulty (or more challenging modes, like what I would've envisioned for Tier 1). It does add a sense of realism when you have to conserve ammo and mentally track how many full or partially-full mags you have remaining in your gear. Personally I think it adds depth to the games.

jmlaneCA
08-12-2017, 09:59 AM
Agreed. Hopefully future GR titles will return to more authentic roots.