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View Full Version : Best way to shoot down a He111 in a Hurricane?



Huxley_S
02-01-2004, 08:07 AM
Loving the RAF campaign but I'm having difficulty going 1 on 1 against the 111s. The Hurricane's machine guns just seem to do superficial damage. Where is the best place to aim? I'm sure the cockpit is a prime target but that's easier said than done.

Huxley_S
02-01-2004, 08:07 AM
Loving the RAF campaign but I'm having difficulty going 1 on 1 against the 111s. The Hurricane's machine guns just seem to do superficial damage. Where is the best place to aim? I'm sure the cockpit is a prime target but that's easier said than done.

fabianfred
02-01-2004, 08:20 AM
i would also say that the main cabin from ahead and above is probably the most tender spot, but getting in the right position is difficult....
also, I'm sure that the AI in this sim seem to be equipped with far more ammo than the player, so often i go for unlimited, if there aren't any bombs to be loaded.... it also makes up for the inability to re-arm...
attack from above at the wing roots also works, but both need to be really close to be effective

Raider_356th
02-01-2004, 08:20 AM
S!

Come from above, and aim for the engines and wings. if u come from anywhere else, the gunners will get you

Wildman
5E_B
364thFG Commanding Officer
"Too Tough To Tame"
"Fighter Aircraft Are Designed-And Fighter Pilots Are Trained-To Fight. If There Are Enemy Aircraft In The Air, And Contact Is Not Made, Somthing Is Wrong"
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Kamikaze_Gibbon
02-01-2004, 08:25 AM
As you said - aim at the cockpit!

Either that or aim at the engines. A smoking engine means that it is likely to quit before the pilot can safely land the aircraft.

Be wary of making rear attacks unless you enjoy feshly flame grilled Merlin http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

kNOWON
02-01-2004, 08:36 AM
Hello,

In reality the He 111 was most vulnerable from ahead as the pexiglass gave little protection to the crew. That said it is probably the most difficult shot to make.

My own preference is to come up from slightly below and and behind and rake the engines.

Patrick M.

CH_D-Fender
02-01-2004, 08:38 AM
Take her head-on.

Unluckily the Hurri (in FB) is armed with eight
small caliber jokes.

Chuck_Older
02-01-2004, 08:53 AM
the .303 is a rifle calibre bullet. I'm sure some real Hurri pilots wanted better guns, too.

*****************************
do I hear the echoes of the days of '39? ~Clash

CH_D-Fender
02-01-2004, 09:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:

the .303 is a rifle calibre bullet. I'm sure some real Hurri pilots wanted better guns, too.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure it's a small caliber MG. But they got 8 of
them ! Some british pilots prefered the pure
8 MG armament over the 20mm/MG mix (Spitfire).

But we can do a test. I take only 1 .303 MG and
you can hide behind a 1/8 inch sheet of a
aluminum. At any range up to 800 meters.

Deal done ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

D_Fender

Aaron_GT
02-01-2004, 09:14 AM
If my wife gets her scanner working again
I'll see if I can scan some shots of recommended
attacks from "Britain's Wonderful Airforce".
Beam attack is recommended, for example.

In FB itself head on from above, as previously
mentioned, seems effective, plus there is a
weak spot (fuel tank) on the underside of the
wing roots.

xanty
02-01-2004, 09:22 AM
Well, they sure preffered them to the first "crappy-unconstant-jammed-most-times" Hispanos they used on the MkIb and II. What better are they than light 0.303s if they don't work?

Also, there are multiple records of several hurricanes making many passes at a He-111 or Do-17 filling them with "hundreds of holes" and makind their way out of England (prob. crash landing latter). Many still flyed with they crews dead or having bailed out, fooling RAF pilots into shooting them even more. Definelly the Hurricane's guns are just about enough, although they are very different to your 20mm cannons...Maybe if we had the correct distances we would see a difference.

I find the He-111 quite easy to damage. Maybe not kill, but sure you can get an easy "combat-kill" (disable it before dropping bombs), and that counted as mission priority.

http://www.silence.plus.com/xanty/stuff/fb_sig.jpg

Cajun76
02-01-2004, 09:23 AM
Eh, the object veiwer says eight, but the Hurri is packing 12 of those .303 stingers. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

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xanty
02-01-2004, 09:28 AM
You sure know your battles and planes eh? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (no offense)

The Hurricane MK.I was used during BOB, either with 2 or 3lades propellers and some different engines. But mostly it had 8 x Browning 0.303 Cal. (4 in each wing). Only the MK.II had more and varied weapons (from 12x0.303 to 2x40mm cannons)

Now...I know little of the P-47, so...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.silence.plus.com/xanty/stuff/fb_sig.jpg

VW-IceFire
02-01-2004, 09:50 AM
Standard armament on MK 1 Hurricanes is 8x .303 Brownings. Not 12. The 12 gun armament was on the MK II's as already stated and that was an attempt to boost the firepower although it was ultimately a stopgap kind of solution.

I've read that several pilots tested (in combat apparently) some cannon armaments and that a couple of pilots specifically signed up to take the cannon armed Hurricanes because they knew they'd do quite a bit more to any of the bombers they were after. Too much of a hit on performance at the time as well...none of the modified aircraft were capable as fighters.

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Cajun76
02-01-2004, 09:54 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Since the discussion is about the BoB campaign for FB, I was just sharing some trivia. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I've heard, time and again, people lament the 8 .303s on the Hurricane Mk.IIb in FB, because thats what the object veiwer says. *cough* CH_D-Fender *cough* http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif But there are 12 .303s on the model. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I don't doubt you're right about the actual planes and battles, but the Mk.IIb in game has 12. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The P-47 had 8 .50cals, a 2000hp engine, and had a mission/loss rate of 0.07%. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

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Mike_Green
02-01-2004, 10:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huxley_S:
Loving the RAF campaign but I'm having difficulty going 1 on 1 against the 111s. The Hurricane's machine guns just seem to do superficial damage. Where is the best place to aim? I'm sure the cockpit is a prime target but that's easier said than done.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Personally I go for engines. Be patient - be prepared to make multiple passes. I find if I try to get him in one pass I make myself a target, and the AI gunnery doesn't give you a second chance.

Previously known round these parts as mikeyg007

DONB3397
02-01-2004, 01:11 PM
If you can get in position, TOCH works and go for the engines and cockpit. Remember the engine cutoff when you push over, it will put you behind the curve. And be careful of closing rates; roll off to starboard or port to avoid collision. Zoom asap to regain altitude.

If you're in a running fight, high side beam attack seems to work best; gun convergence at 250m or less. BTW, this was Johnny Johnson's recommended approach to bombers is his book on fighter tactics.

In FB, if a gunner gets a clean shot at you, it's likely you'll have to limp home. The way the MkI is modelled, you'll be lucky to get by without a damaged and smoking engine. Jinking just throws off your aim.

Finally, if he lights you up completely (fire) without killing your pilot, get out! This a/c goes off in 3-4 seconds.

My kill ratio in this matchup seems to be improving...slowly.

Winning isn't everything;
It's the only thing!
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02-01-2004, 01:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm sure the cockpit is a prime target but that's easier said than done.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go for the fuel tanks in the inboard wing area between the engines and the fuselage. With convergence set to 300-400 yards it takes about 2 seconds to rip open the fuel tanks and set them on fire. Sometimes you'll get lucky and smoke an engine even before then.

Attack while diving or climbing. The 111 gunners will have a harder time tracking you. Just blow straight through the bomber formations, then climb and set up again out of range of their guns. If you've wounded one on your first pass it will fall behind and become an easy target.

If you're lucky enough to be in position for a headon pass, try to come from above because the nose gun can't elevate very high. This is opposite to the hot-side/cold-side theory against fighters, but it works for bombers. As soon as you're done shooting, break left or right ~60 degrees to throw off the rear gunners. Remember to stay out of the horizontal, too.

horseback
02-01-2004, 04:01 PM
Where's Groucho Marks when you need him? To paraphrase: "How that He 111 got into that Hurricane I'll never know!"

Cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

theknightsofni
02-01-2004, 05:14 PM
i've found getting high above them and zoooming down aiming at the nose works quite well, gunners have a hard time hitting you there. you can also kinda cheat if you like, after a pass, ctrl-f2 and look at the he111 (pause teh game too) and see if any gunners are dead, then you can plan your next attack to take advantage of this


anyone got any tips for fighting against the 109s tho? my stupid ai buddies seem to abandon me and leave me alone against 3 or 4 of them despite me trying to call em back and i cant seem to shake thge 109s off my tail

NegativeGee
02-01-2004, 06:07 PM
Hurricane gun armament (IIRC):

I: 8x .303
IIa: 8x .303
IIb early: 8x .303
IIb later: 12x .303

The Mk. IIa entered production in June 1940 (in service about September), but it was not until late in 1940 that the IIb w/12 guns did so, so this type missed the period that is considered to be the "Battle of Britain", although it was undoubtedly active against the Luftwaffe soon thereafter.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cajun76:
The P-47 had 8 .50cals, a 2000hp engine, and had a mission/loss rate of 0.07%. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

While P-47 trivia is always interesting, one small point. The stated loss rate is out by an order of magnitude, the correct figure being 0.7%.

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

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Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

Cajun76
02-01-2004, 06:22 PM
Oops! I was unsure about how I wrote that, them little dots and zeros make a big differance, sometimes. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif Thanks for the correction, I gotta get ready to go work on aircraft........ I hope I don't have to deal with .'s & 0's too much today. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

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Have you thanked a veteran today?

Vladimir_No2
02-01-2004, 06:38 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cajun76:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Since the discussion is about the BoB campaign for FB, I was just sharing some trivia. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I've heard, time and again, people lament the 8 .303s on the Hurricane Mk.IIb in FB, because thats what the object veiwer says. *cough* CH_D-Fender *cough* http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif But there are 12 .303s on the model. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I don't doubt you're right about the actual planes and battles, but the Mk.IIb in game h l
The P-47 had 8 .50cals, a 2000hp engine, and had a mission/loss rate of 0.07%. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun7
[QUOTE]
A little confused, are we? The subject of this thread is the hurricane I, not the IIb.

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"Engage the enemy more closely" -Rear Admiral Cradock

EPP-Gibbs
02-01-2004, 07:27 PM
Make sure you have a high closing speed, and a high crossing angle, hence high beam attacks work in so far as the AI gunners find it harder to hit you. Lead calculation a bit harder.

Engines, wing root, & cockpit are the targets.

The real 111 had a blind spot dead astern...not so in FB. Creeeping in closing slowly dead astern gets you shot to bits.

If I had all the money I'd spent on drink..I'd spend it on drink!

AWL_Spinner
02-02-2004, 03:42 AM
As mentioned previously, the weak points are clustered together (front fuselage, inboard wing and engine) so it's relatively easy to spread damage across all three with eight guns. My convergence is normally set to 200m, and I usually come in from a high rear quarter.

AI Heinkels engines are weak. Obviously a slowly deteriorating engine isn't much use to man or beast in a DF server but if flying an online campaign a lot of the 111 kills occur several minutes after your attack when they glide gracefully into trees. I always aim for the front fuselage, with my slightly wonky aim that tends to mean I plaster the inboard wing and the engines too. A damaged engine can drop power quickly, or at least make the pilot try and evade, which usually seperates your target from the pack if there are several.

The dorsal gunner on top is the least protected, if you can nail him first pass you have un-opposed attacking options from above and can take your time. Fortuitously, he's also sat slap bang in the middle of the afore mentioned holy trinity of target points.

I always attack from above, I find the lower gunners to be real trouble. I'm careful not to end up below and behind at any point during an attack if I can help it.

Even with my shoddy gunnery, I can often take down two Heinkels in a campaign mission in a Hurri 1 without taking significant damage. Usually at least one is an engine kill, as mentioned above, but it's not unusual to either a) set one on fire or b) kill the crew if you get your convergence right, they don't have much protection. There's more than enough ammo onboard for two if you're accurate, although you don't have much small change after.

If there's only one, he's easy meat once you work out "your" system for evading the gunners. Especially if you can nail that guy on top.

Cheers

Aaron_GT
02-02-2004, 03:48 AM
Also if you can damage an engine enough
the plane may dump its bombs as a response.
If it is short of its target, then that is
a victory of sorts, even if the plane
doesn't go down. It would be nice if scoring
could accomodate that, although online most
campaigns do in the sense that their victory
points are less likely to be met.

Cajun76
02-02-2004, 03:53 AM
For Vladimir_No2: The first post of the thread.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huxley_S:
Loving the RAF campaign but I'm having difficulty going 1 on 1 against the 111s. The Hurricane's machine guns just seem to do superficial damage. Where is the best place to aim? I'm sure the cockpit is a prime target but that's easier said than done.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



And the quote I responded to when I first entered: (by CH_D-Fender)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Take her head-on.

Unluckily the Hurri (in FB) is armed with eight
small caliber jokes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



The only Hurri in FB to feature a large number of rifle caliber armament in the .303 range is the Hurricane Mk. IIb. The object viewer in Forgotten Battles says it only carries 8 of them. In the game, Forgotten Battles, the model has 12 .303 rifle caliber guns. This game, Forgotten Battles does not feature a Hurricane Mk. I. It does feature the Hurricane Mk. IIb, the Hurricane Mk. IIc, and the Hurricane Mk. II field mod.

The first mention of the Hurricane Mk. I was by xanty, regarding my correction of CH_D-Fender's comment about the "8" .303 rifle caliber guns on the Hurricane Mk. IIb, used in the excellent RAF BoB campaign produced by Extreme_One for the game IL2: Forgotten Battles.

I'm still trying to figure out where I'm confused, except for those dratted little . 's and 0 's. I think I have it down, now..... the more numbers to the left of the . 's is better, especially when it's located on my paycheck. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Edit: It is not my intention to hijack or deflect this thread, I was merely pointing out the fairly common mistake of the Hurri MkIIb in FB having only 8 .303's, when it, in fact, has 12. *cough* AWL_Spinner *cough* I've heard more people misquote this info than just about anything else. Sorry if I sound a little testy, but i seem to be fighting uphill on something that seems obvious to me. Have fun, and tally ho!

Good hunting,
Cajun76

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Have you thanked a veteran today?

[This message was edited by Cajun76 on Mon February 02 2004 at 03:02 AM.]

SpinSpinSugar
02-02-2004, 03:57 AM
There is a Hurri I there Cajun76, it's just not grouped with the other three in the aircraft lists in FB as it was used by the Finns (I think) and therefore counts as a Blue mount. It's WAY down the list.

That's the one you're flying in Extreme_One's campaign, I believe.

Cheers, SSS

Cajun76
02-02-2004, 04:04 AM
AH, Thank you, SSS! It becomes MUCH more clear now! I'll go slink away, now.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Cajun = http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


Edit: A testament to Extreme_One's attention to detail, using a '38 Hurri in the German plane list to be more accurate.

Good hunting,
Cajun76

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mortoma
02-02-2004, 10:28 AM
Getting back to the original point of this post, I think that there are some ways to attack HE-111s with .303s that people pointed out that are more effective than other ways. But I don't think there are any really great ways to kill them, they are just too hard to down with .303 calibres. I have had far greater success attacking PE-8s ( in the Finn campaign ) with Mk.Is, than I ever had attacking HE-111s with Mk.IIs. And Mk.IIs have 12 .303 MGs instead of only 8 like the Mk.I!!! Plus the PE-8 is a lot bigger than the 111 is. Try switching to Lagg-3 S4 and you will shoot down tons of 111s, and I literally mean tons.

Chuck_Older
02-02-2004, 10:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CH_D-Fender:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:

the .303 is a rifle calibre bullet. I'm sure some real Hurri pilots wanted better guns, too.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure it's a small caliber MG. But they got 8 of
them ! Some british pilots prefered the pure
8 MG armament over the 20mm/MG mix (Spitfire).

But we can do a test. I take only 1 .303 MG and
you can hide behind a 1/8 inch sheet of a
aluminum. At any range up to 800 meters.

Deal done ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

D_Fender<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Well, since a .303 mg with armor peircing ammo was proven to penetrate the steel armor plate behind a Spit IX's seat during the war, I think we can forego the firing squad test.

Hey, all I said is that it's a rifle calibre weapon. I never said you're dumb or anything. Is it possible you're over-reacting a little?

*****************************
do I hear the echoes of the days of '39? ~Clash

TgD Thunderbolt56
02-02-2004, 11:17 AM
Aim for the pilot's face.

Or get an engine smoking. Either way, hit and run from high deflection is the best way. Sometimes you can only plink away and let attrition do its work. Were it not for the buzzards waiting for you to break off and leave the hapless He111 to its end only to try to "help" finish it off it would work most times.



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buz13
02-02-2004, 11:57 AM
I find from below or diving head on works best.
get the cockpit (hard) or the wing roots and engines. Keeping your speed up helps in not getting clobbered by the AI. I also jink on the way out to throw off AI aim.

Extreme_One
02-03-2004, 06:36 AM
LMAO! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Whilst testing the campaign out I had to literally scream for help from Poymando on how I was meant to down an He-111 on my own with little more than a few pea-shooters to hit it with. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

My advice basically mirrors what someone said earlier I believe.

Come in from high and to the side and go for the engine.
If their is a wingman to assist you I'd make sure that we attacked the same engine at the same time.

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the RAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html). *NEW* Updated for FB 1.21

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CH_D-Fender
02-03-2004, 06:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:

Hey, all I said is that it's a rifle calibre weapon. I never said you're dumb or anything. Is it possible you're over-reacting a little?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chuck, relax ! Look at the smilies !

I should make that test with one of the
developers. Just to show them, that they have
undermodelled the small caliber MG quite a
"little bit".

Chuck_Older
02-03-2004, 10:24 AM
I never get excited about anything over the internet. It's pointless. Instead of flaming you, I asked if you were over-reacting. No big deal.

*****************************
do I hear the echoes of the days of '39? ~Clash

xenios
02-03-2004, 12:10 PM
It seems I've written this over a dozen times now, but you can't expect to duplicate the BoB with the planes in FB. We don't have them, we only have 1941 planes. The Ju88, Ju87, He111, and Bf109Es we have are not the same planes used in the BoB. They are improved versions upgraded in response to their defeat over Britain. The 1941 Emil has automatic prop pitch, whereas the 1940 Emil did not. The armor on all the bombers is much greater on the 1941 planes, so rifle calibre bullets will not do much. The 1940 Ju88 also had less defensive firepower. If we had 1940 Luftwaffe bombers, I would expect them to be more vulnerable.

As many others have said here, shooting the cockpit is very effective, although it can be difficult to set up the attack. Incidentally, RAF pilots found this to be the most effective tactic in real life, and the Luftwaffe later adopted it against U.S. bombers.

LilHorse
02-03-2004, 01:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Getting back to the original point of this post, I think that there are some ways to attack HE-111s with .303s that people pointed out that are more effective than other ways. But I don't think there are any really great ways to kill them, they are just too hard to down with .303 calibres. I have had far greater success attacking PE-8s ( in the Finn campaign ) with Mk.Is, than I ever had attacking HE-111s with Mk.IIs. And Mk.IIs have 12 .303 MGs instead of only 8 like the Mk.I!!! Plus the PE-8 is a lot bigger than the 111 is. Try switching to Lagg-3 S4 and you will shoot down tons of 111s, and I literally mean tons.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As has been mentioned in this thread and as I've mentioned in other threads related to this topic, you aren't going to see the kinds of results with this armament and these bombers like you would using .50s or 20mm. You won't be sawing off wings or causing them to explode. This is not just the case for the game but it was the case in RL. That doesn't, however, mean that 8 .303s are not effective in doing their job. Smoke or flame an engine or shoot up the cockpit and you have done your job. Same if you cause them to drop their bombs pre-maturely. Same if you make 'em straggle away from the pack and they get minced up by your mates. If you're in the mission long enough, chances are you or one of your guys will see the "enemy aircraft destroyed" message well after the fight while you're RTBing.

Blottogg
02-03-2004, 04:47 PM
Some good tactics mentioned already. A few more points to consider:

- Penetration seems to be modeled, at least for individual aircraft sections. Considering this, I have a lot better luck setting fire to the wing tanks if I get close, as in 100m (better KE for penetrating?) With convergance set to 200m, there are two hit locations to either side of the pipper however.

- Coming in from dead astern solves a lot of my problems keeping the pipper on for the required long burst, but poses two problems. First, as already mentioned, the gunners arcs are unhistorically liberal, so you come under fire from both dorsal and ventral gunners (and the fixed pilot operated tail stinger if you wander into its path). Second, penetration may be modeled within each component, but not completely through the component to the next one behind it. I.E. shooting from dead astern means that the elevators and horizontal stabilizers are between you and the wing tanks. Unless you get a lucky round past them, you'll have to chew through the elevator, then the stab, to finally get to the chewy center that is the fuel tank. It's more effective (but more difficult) to do as AWL_Spinner suggested and come in from above or below slightly.

- Like Aaron_GT and AWL_Spinner suggested, smoking an engine gets you outboard of the tail section, but rarely results in insta-kills. If accomplishing the mission means more to you than your kill count, this is a good way to go, though your wingies will probably finish him off and get the kill.

Blotto

"Speed is life." - Anon
"Sight is life. Speed is merely groovy." - "Junior"