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View Full Version : Randomness in videogames



Krotanix
04-02-2016, 02:48 AM
As seen in Destiny and The Division, random drops and random object properties are becoming something common and, in general, very frustrating for the majority of players.

Please, when adding random things in this game, be very careful and don't introduce sick statistics that make getting what you want virtually impossible.

Good things should be hard to get, but not impossible. I prefer playing and be sure I'm getting what I want than repeating again and again the same thing because randomness.

Sp--pyBrown
04-02-2016, 06:25 AM
As seen in Destiny and The Division, random drops and random object properties are becoming something common and, in general, very frustrating for the majority of players.

Please, when adding random things in this game, be very careful and don't introduce sick statistics that make getting what you want virtually impossible.

Good things should be hard to get, but not impossible. I prefer playing and be sure I'm getting what I want than repeating again and again the same thing because randomness.

>ghost recon
>random loot and drop

Yeah, no. The only thing that could save this game from a "progression system" (weapon unlocks and/or looting for new weapons) is exceptional gameplay and a proper AI. If both of those lack and I have to acquire new weapons by killing enemies, I will not buy this game.

Ghosts are a tier one special forces group, they should have every weapon the DOD can offer right there at their fingertips. Provided it can be transported to Bolivia ofc.

SuperBiscotCOT
04-02-2016, 12:54 PM
I think it's you Bluefox who said "Uncle Sam can buy" and I tottaly agree with what Sp--pyBrown and you just said.
With the division I had a big problem when my friend started the game and I was already around level 20.
GRW have to be based on the core of the GR franchise with improvments and limitating RPG elements. Some RPG elements are useful but some of them like weapon levels are not matching with GR universe.


I think a player or a group of players should be able to finish the game with the same equipment they started it with if they choose and most importantly a new player should be able to join the group.
This is one of the goals that IMO devs should target. They always have the last word but it's something (again IMO) really important.

ES-Ulukai
04-02-2016, 01:27 PM
Guys you assume that because there's loot in The Division it will be the same on GRW !

Stop doing that !!!

The game won't be a RPG and don't have the same mechanics as The Division.

GiveMeTactical
04-02-2016, 04:07 PM
I think they are not saying "It will have it" but rather "It shouldn't have it".

Since I am not an MP player I don't know if this has anything to do with me but I said before... I should be able to pick and choose any weapon available in the game from the get go, for obvious reasons of course.

Part of the annoyances of games as of late is not that they are difficult but that they are scripted in a lazy way so one would think its hard to move forward only to find out that once you get the scripted way (aka: Boss-type) you defeat the section and move on to the next level or chapter. If I keep dying, let it be because I am doing something stupid and not because the miracle bullet found me even though I am behind cover, or my all time greatest... because an enemy spawn right behind me even though we had already cleared the section.

UbiKeeba
04-04-2016, 02:46 PM
The two games you are referencing are RPGs. That's just sort of par for the course in RPGs. Ghost Recon Wildlands is not an RPG.

mezzatron
04-07-2016, 06:53 PM
The two games you are referencing are RPGs. That's just sort of par for the course in RPGs. Ghost Recon Wildlands is not an RPG.

But most likely will have a progression system as this allows players to continually improve their character and keep playing the game...

I just hope everyone will be on a fair playing field during PvP. And some lucky kid who got a golden AK isn't getting 1 hit kills from 200meters away =)

Spartan543210
04-20-2016, 12:55 PM
I would like to see random encounters like a cartel controlled check point or a band of six cartel members trying to kill a civilian and you have to stop them.

Lolssi
04-21-2016, 08:00 AM
I would like to see random encounters like a cartel controlled check point or a band of six cartel members trying to kill a civilian and you have to stop them.
Just as long as they don't repeat. At least on same spot.

DanHibikiFanXM
04-21-2016, 08:13 PM
The day I have to pray to RNGesus for a good loot roll in Ghost Recon is the day I completely disavow the franchise. Thankfully, that won't happen...I hope.

GiveMeTactical
04-24-2016, 10:50 PM
GRFS has one good saying that I believe we should all adhere, more so when it comes to interfering with the locals... "Kid... we ain't even here" LOL

It is human nature to try to help and I wouldn't mind helping a local in distress but I don't want the game to turn into a rinse and repeat every few minutes or in every mission..

MauiMisfit
05-07-2016, 05:39 PM
My opinion is we shouldn't have RPG elements in GR. Different type of game.

See, I disagree. Video game RPGs mean stat progression for the most part.

The original Rainbow Six has progression. As your operators completed missions - they gained skill in different areas.

I think Wildlands should have that too. Although, much like the original Rainbow Six, it shouldn't make or break an operator. It should just make me a bit better.

GiveMeTactical
05-07-2016, 06:10 PM
I also disagree with the gaining of experience and I did not like it even back when OGR had it. To me, these guys are the Elite, the best of the best and not some QRF grunts.

I don't believe we are going to have the 2 or 3 squads that we had back in OGR times so making your teammates gain skill is really not a big thing, more so when I want to be the one racking on them kills and not my ai teammates. Heck, if I need to use them fine, but I like to be the one doing most of the killings and not let them do that for me.

Now, being said that I do understand why most of the new shooters have these and that is in order to appease or attract the casual gamer to play the game... ok, fine but I would rather not cross genres.

AI BLUEFOX
05-07-2016, 08:17 PM
See, I disagree. Video game RPGs mean stat progression for the most part.

The original Rainbow Six has progression. As your operators completed missions - they gained skill in different areas.

I think Wildlands should have that too. Although, much like the original Rainbow Six, it shouldn't make or break an operator. It should just make me a bit better.

I agree with that, actually. By "RPG" I was referring to the endless progression and differentials created by ever increasing power. Stat progression is ok as long as new players can compete with more established players. The Division has been an antisocial experience for me as friends have ranked up at different rates and it makes no sense to play co-op when you are more than 2 or 3 ranks apart.

SuperBiscotCOT
05-07-2016, 09:10 PM
I have a friend who bought the game two weeks after me but we never realy played together because our ranks were too separated ... and it's one of the things I don't want to see in GRW. A new player should be able to join a squad where people have played 100 hours or 1 hour.

Dieinthedark
05-07-2016, 09:11 PM
I would like to see random encounters like a cartel controlled check point or a band of six cartel members trying to kill a civilian and you have to stop them.

Noooo, I'd rather have the same scenario but you can choose whether you save them or not. That could go to improve your standing with the locals if you aren't quite 100% Ghost. Maybe they would become more willing to pick up arms against the cartel, maybe they come to you when they can with little pieces of intelligence that they get. Maybe not all the intelligence is factual though, its not just someone comes to you and gives you a mission but rather civilians come to you saying they overheard some cartel members talking about a specific area that you can go check out if you like, optionally.



GRFS has one good saying that I believe we should all adhere, more so when it comes to interfering with the locals... "Kid... we ain't even here" LOL

It is human nature to try to help and I wouldn't mind helping a local in distress but I don't want the game to turn into a rinse and repeat every few minutes or in every mission..

Another good point. Interfering with the locals should be a choice. Modern military forces, say in the middle east, always try to improve their standing with the locals but if you want to only rely on your team of four Ghosts, then I believe that should be a viable option as well. Though I know I sound demanding, oh just make this an option. Programmatically that'd be a nightmare but I can dream right? ;)


The further you break away from the person A gives you mission at place X is what will make the game feel more "alive". And even one step further, the more you make it feel like we get to pick how we want to dismantle the cartel the better feeling the game will have. I don't want to just have a series of objectives in an open world game to go here kill this person. If there's a loop of intelligence gathering, planning, allowing not all the intelligence to be necessary or correct (ie, letting our plans fail occasionally due to poor/lacking intel), that will breathe life into this game. I think the keyword is "dismantle", not just silent strike on everyone we see. Let us understand how the cartel operates, plan how it will fall apart if this piece is taken out, or this one.

Or in one sentence, let us play jenga with the cartel members' lives so we choose how to let the cartel fall to pieces. :cool:

SuperBiscotCOT
05-07-2016, 09:15 PM
Love your one sentence :p
Yeah they realy have to try to make the game "alive" like you said. I'm still favorable to a reputation system with local population and for example doctors help you without asking you something in return (if you have a good reputation).

Dieinthedark
05-07-2016, 09:32 PM
Haha, just seemed like the fitting analogy! I think what's difficult to balance is even if they succeed in making the game feel alive with the civilians going about their business, going to their jobs and work places, back to their homes etc, it comes down how the game is presented. I'm thinking to AC (which I know GR and AC have their differences), but AC games generally feel like the world is pretty well put together, even though civilians don't have jobs and such. Generally they seem fairly believable just to wander around the cities. But, the mission structure and the way we are presented objectives never captures that same feeling. Maybe its just the limited number of ways you can say, go here and A) listen B) kill C) follow this person. That could be it.

I guess what i'm trying to get to is that if the missions unfold and are presented in a manner that seems on par with the way the world is presented, that's the ideal.

And I agree, that does seem like a fitting feature. The only thing I hope is that the reputation system doesn't boil down to a graph or meter or something. I'd rather it be demonstrated in the way civilians act towards you/your team. Not so much, "You saved the civilian, +10 reputation"

SuperBiscotCOT
05-07-2016, 10:06 PM
And I agree, that does seem like a fitting feature. The only thing I hope is that the reputation system doesn't boil down to a graph or meter or something. I'd rather it be demonstrated in the way civilians act towards you/your team. Not so much, "You saved the civilian, +10 reputation"

Yes. I don't want to see like in WD a meter. You have to feel if civilians "love" or "hate" you.

Sp--pyBrown
05-08-2016, 09:08 AM
As long as they don't **** that mechanic up like they did in The Division, all is good. They promised a moral choice but in essence it's just a "trade water bottle (which btw only gives a marginal buff) for XP". I chuckled to myself when I saw that happen and it clarified my decision not to buy the game.

Immersion is where it's at.


EDIT.

In other words, if civilian interactions are in the game, please make them deeper than this:
http://kotaku.com/the-divisions-toughest-moral-challenge-yet-1763652958