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View Full Version : I have a problem with the Ta-152 and the Go229.



resev
02-25-2004, 02:54 AM
Ok, so i'm looking at this week's update, and i'm looking at the Ta-152 and the Go229.

What is my first tought? (spell check)

No, it wans't how powerfull these aircrafts were, or neither how good they may be on the game, as for all i'm concern and demonstrate regularly, the plane means d!ck if the pilot does not know how to handle it properly.

My first tought was..........how the hell am i going to miss that thing!!!

I'm serious, i'm looking at the update, and the first thing that comes to mind is how big the aircrafts are, and how hard it will be NOT to hit them.

Le me put it bluntly, i am by no means degrading the capabilities of these aircrafts, i'm simply speaking of the sheer size of them, and how easy it will be to aim at them.

I do hope, and i mean this truthfully and as honestly and beeing as humble as i can, that if you decide to make this aircraft as you main ride, that you master it, and master it quickly, because otherwise all i'l see is one biiiiiig target flying, wich all i'l have to do is point my aircraft loosely in its direction, and just open fire, as something is bound to hit!


I say this once more, to make sure you understand the point of this thread and this doesn't turn into the usual flame fest, i am by no means degrading the capabilities of the aircrafts, i'm only speaking about the size.
An aircraft can be as fast as it may be, but it will never fly faster than a bullet or shell.


Cheers.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/resev/images/2-picture2.gif?0.3524929147671928

resev
02-25-2004, 02:54 AM
Ok, so i'm looking at this week's update, and i'm looking at the Ta-152 and the Go229.

What is my first tought? (spell check)

No, it wans't how powerfull these aircrafts were, or neither how good they may be on the game, as for all i'm concern and demonstrate regularly, the plane means d!ck if the pilot does not know how to handle it properly.

My first tought was..........how the hell am i going to miss that thing!!!

I'm serious, i'm looking at the update, and the first thing that comes to mind is how big the aircrafts are, and how hard it will be NOT to hit them.

Le me put it bluntly, i am by no means degrading the capabilities of these aircrafts, i'm simply speaking of the sheer size of them, and how easy it will be to aim at them.

I do hope, and i mean this truthfully and as honestly and beeing as humble as i can, that if you decide to make this aircraft as you main ride, that you master it, and master it quickly, because otherwise all i'l see is one biiiiiig target flying, wich all i'l have to do is point my aircraft loosely in its direction, and just open fire, as something is bound to hit!


I say this once more, to make sure you understand the point of this thread and this doesn't turn into the usual flame fest, i am by no means degrading the capabilities of the aircrafts, i'm only speaking about the size.
An aircraft can be as fast as it may be, but it will never fly faster than a bullet or shell.


Cheers.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/resev/images/2-picture2.gif?0.3524929147671928

Hristo_
02-25-2004, 03:01 AM
IMO, Go 229 might be one of the "stealthiest" planes in the sim, when you look at it sideways or front/rear. Only its planeform would be a giveaway.

Ta 152 ? Not bigger than P47, IMHO.

resev
02-25-2004, 03:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hristo_:
IMO, Go 229 might be one of the "stealthiest" planes in the sim, when you look at it sideways or front/rear. Only its planeform would be a giveaway.

Ta 152 ? Not bigger than P47, IMHO.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well, lets see:

Ta152
Wingspan: 11.00 m
Length : 10.36 m

P-471
Wingspan: 12.42 m
Length : 11.02 m


I guess you'r right.
In both lenght and wingspan the P-47 is bigger.

Its pretty much a dead match, alltough the Ta152 will still give a bigger target with a larger surface to aim at.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/resev/images/2-picture2.gif?0.3524929147671928

resev
02-25-2004, 03:36 AM
Wait a minute, i found new numbers for the Ta152.

Total Length :
35.433 ft
10.800 m

Wingspan :
47.572 ft
14.500 m


This makes the Ta152 wingspan much larger than the P-47, while the lenght is smaller.

Check it out, i was searching for measurements in Imperial and arabic, to give more accurate numbers.

This website:
http://www.luftfahrtmuseum.com/htmi/itf/ta152.htm

http://mysite.freeserve.com/resev/images/2-picture2.gif?0.3524929147671928

MPortus
02-25-2004, 03:37 AM
Mustang's K14 gunsight doesn't have the Ta152 setting, so its wingspan may be an advantage at the end.

MandMs
02-25-2004, 03:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by resev:
Well, lets see:

Ta152
Wingspan: 11.00 m
Length : 10.36 m

P-471
Wingspan: 12.42 m
Length : 11.02 m


I guess you'r right.
In both lenght and wingspan the P-47 is bigger.

Its pretty much a dead match, alltough the Ta152 will still give a bigger target with a larger surface to aim at.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


You do know that there is 2 models of the Ta152, the C model and the H model. The Ta152C had the 11.0. m wingspan. The H was 14.44m ws with a length of 10.71m. The fuselage of the P-47 is much more massive than the Ta, of either flavour. Empty weights are P-47D &gt; 4853kg while for the Ta H it was 3920kg. The Jug even has more wing area 27.87m^2 to 23.3m^2.

The model we are getting is the Ta152H.



I eat the red ones last.

Hristo_
02-25-2004, 03:46 AM
Yes, the Ta has great wingspan, that's true. As for other dimensions, it is on par with US planes, while bigger than VVS or earlier LW rides.

However, this may reflect a certain philosophy. Bigger plane means bigger (or more) guns generally, which is good when you are hitting things. It also means more resistant to battle damage, due to overall size and displacement of vital components.

The drawback, as you mentioned, is that it is easier to spot and hit.

IMHO, the advantages are much better than drawbacks.

The 109 suffers greatly because its small airframe, while it benefits in climb and acceleration. IMO, not the best combination.

resev
02-25-2004, 03:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MandMs:
You do know that there is 2 models of the Ta152, the C model and the H model. The Ta152C had the 11.0. m wingspan. The H was 14.44m ws with a length of 10.71m.

The model we are getting is the _Ta152H_.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I was not aware of diferent size beetween the models.

So i guess both my numbers are correct then.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/resev/images/2-picture2.gif?0.3524929147671928

tenmmike
02-25-2004, 04:08 AM
ta-152 H span =47ft4.5(approx 14.5m) in wing span......the C was36 ft 1 in.(11 m)....the p-47 wing span was40ft 9.5 in (12.43m)

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_50cal.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

MandMs
02-25-2004, 04:21 AM
http://www.aviacherteg.narod.ru/avia/Drawings/WWII/WWII_LWF/FW190/Fw190D_ML/57.jpg
http://www.aviacherteg.narod.ru/avia/Drawings/WWII/WWII_LWF/FW190/Fw190D_ML/32-b.jpg
http://www.aviacherteg.narod.ru/avia/Drawings/WWII/WWII_LWF/FW190/Fw190D_ML/31.jpg


I eat the red ones last.

[This message was edited by MandMs on Wed February 25 2004 at 03:32 AM.]

robban75
02-25-2004, 06:10 AM
When looking at the "numbers" the Ta 152 might appear to be a very large airplane. The fuselage however is very narrow and the wing chord is small also. It will probably be as easy to hit as an Fw 190D-9, which seems easy enough! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
The Ta 152H will be a blast! A faster, better climbing and better turning Fw 190D! Can't wait!

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

VW-IceFire
02-25-2004, 06:23 AM
Yeah I figured the Ta-152 would be a big target but its deceptively large looking. From the 6 o'clock position it still presents virtually the same profile. Only from above would it really have a larger target area.

Heheh I can't wait to shock a poor La-7 pilot when I show them that the Ta-152 can sustain a turn with them.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Zen--
02-25-2004, 06:30 AM
Bombers are much larger than the TA152 and they aren't all that easy to hit in general. Also, I personally believe the fear of seeing those enormous wings will cause the shooter to hesitate, kind of like looking a tiger in the eye http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

Cajun76
02-25-2004, 07:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zen--:
Bombers are much larger than the TA152 and they aren't all that easy to hit in general. Also, I personally believe the fear of seeing those enormous wings will cause the shooter to hesitate, kind of like looking a tiger in the eye http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll do what I always do, close my eyes and squeeze the trigger!

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/Real_35a.gif
Have you thanked a veteran today?

Aztek_Eagle
02-25-2004, 07:11 AM
bah, i willl leave it easier for u and i will fly the bf110

diomedes33
02-25-2004, 07:41 AM
From what I've read here and other places. Ta-152 is a high-alt fighter, so the only place it will should be slow is recovering from a zoom climb at about 5 - 7 km. Other then that It will be screaming at you or past you with guns blazing at 700+ kph. Still have to be a damn good shot to hit it even if it is ~30% (guessing at the number, its early and I don't have my calculator) bigger.

At altitude when recovering, the Ta will still be at an advantage because the Las and Yaks will be working to get enough air under their wings.

With the go229, IHMO without a rear verticle stabilizer you're going to need to keep it fast to keep it stable. I think the problems we will see with this plane is people trying to turn, loose too much airspeed and go into a unrecoverable spin. Another drawback to the go229 will be visibility, needing to be above everyone will leave you with big wings in the way (judging by the pictures 2-10 oclock back you'll be blind).

Not sure about the go229, but the "flying-wing" is one of the most aerodynamically clean designs thought of. With less drag, it should have an exceptional zoom climb. Although not looking at it closer the engines and larger chord might counter-act it, my spider sense says no.

I'm look forward to flying both planes. With my new found love for the dora and curiosity to fly an "accurately" modeled flying wing will be interesting. Its nice to apply stuff I'm learning in classes to real/virtual aircraft.

http://www.public.asu.edu/~guthriec/ubi_sig.jpg

Zen--
02-25-2004, 09:11 AM
I think the TA152 is going to be a bear to defeat honestly. In the hands of a less experience pilot it will be one thing, but in the hands of FW or 109 'experten' online, it's probably going to be a real pain to defeat. If you see how well some of these guys fly the 190's right now and consider some of the common limitations of relatively poor turning ability, restricted gunsight view etc and then look at the TA152's better gunsight and it's ability to turn with an La7 (though for how long a sustained turn is the real question) I think you'll see this plane owning at high and low altitude.

I think the D9 is a tremendously effective low altitude furballer, though not in a strictly one on one manner. With a multiple bogey fight you are able to do a series of mini BnZ's because SA is hard for everyone when lots of planes are around plus there are friendlies to help clear your 6 when you are engaged. Imho, confusion favors the Dora down low, the plane, while not the best in a pure 1 on 1 matchup, does extremely well in a crowded, confusing environment if you keep your wits about you.

The Ta152 will be even more dangerous because in addition to all the great qualities of the Dora, it supposedly has excellent turning radius (as I said, many, including Oleg, have mentioned 17-19 second turn which is like the La7) and will probably outrun anything on the deck as well. Add in the seemingly better gunsight view (green bump notwithstanding) and I think you are going to have a really capable luft bird indeed.

I don't personally claim anything about it other than it's reasonable to assume it will have a better top speed, better cllimb rate and better acceleration than the Dora. E retention is going to be a big question for me, if it retains E well during turns then I feel it will be a really nasty plane to fight but if it doesn't, you still basicall have a sooped up Dora...with much heavier hitting power because of the MK108 in the spinner.

I'm predicting that in a short span of time there will be a lot of lazy luft pilots who lose their finely honed edge, once they get to see what the plane is capable of http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

robban75
02-25-2004, 09:44 AM
The Ta 152H empty weight is about 200kg more than the D-9. But don't be fooled by its 690kg higher T/O weight. The Ta carries almost twice the fuel load of a D-9, so basically 100% fuel in a D-9 is 50% in a Ta 152H. Add to that a stronger engine with considerably better high alt output! Just thinking about the menace this thing can cause makes me shiver! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I hope that the P-47M will be added, that would mean some interesting fighting between these two at 10,000+ meters! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

LuftLuver
02-25-2004, 09:52 AM
If you guys think the TA is going to turn with the La7's in this game, then you haven't been paying very good attention for the past 2 years.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Cardinal25
02-25-2004, 09:55 AM
Nothing will ever out perform the LA-7 or Yak-3, ever.

-----------------------------
CWoS. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php)

92nd Fighter Group (http://www.92ndfg.com)

7./JG77 (http://www.7jg77.com)

Zen--
02-25-2004, 10:06 AM
Didn't say I thought so, said that Oleg and others made statements to that effect http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

Zeus-cat
02-25-2004, 10:12 AM
resev said

"An aircraft can be as fast as it may be, but it will never fly faster than a bullet or shell."

Actually, The retired U.S. spy plane SR-71 does fly faster than bullets! Rumor is that it has been replace with something even faster!

Zeus-cat