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View Full Version : AI bombers don't bomb above 3000m when ordered!



polkku
02-12-2004, 07:02 AM
This is the most anoying bug for a bomber pilot. AI bombers do not release their bombs when you command them to attack ground targets if your altitude is above 3000m. This makes the high altitude bombing totally impossible. Only way to make it work now is to preset the ground attack place in mission building and fly by waypoints and let the AI take command plane.

To fix this, we need only a command to force the AI bombers to drop their bombs. Now they seem to be too blind to attack G-targets. "Unable" is the most common response from AI.

Other thing preventing effective high altitude bombing is the poor high alt performance of AI bombers. It seems like they cannot change superchargers to phase 2. They just cannot fly 300 IAS when over 4000m.

In conclusion, bombing with AI can only be done at relatively low altitude now. This means flying slow in formation in the reach of light flak. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS!

p.s. I mostly talk about He-111 here. Also AI Stukas won't begin dive from above 3000m.

polkku
02-12-2004, 07:02 AM
This is the most anoying bug for a bomber pilot. AI bombers do not release their bombs when you command them to attack ground targets if your altitude is above 3000m. This makes the high altitude bombing totally impossible. Only way to make it work now is to preset the ground attack place in mission building and fly by waypoints and let the AI take command plane.

To fix this, we need only a command to force the AI bombers to drop their bombs. Now they seem to be too blind to attack G-targets. "Unable" is the most common response from AI.

Other thing preventing effective high altitude bombing is the poor high alt performance of AI bombers. It seems like they cannot change superchargers to phase 2. They just cannot fly 300 IAS when over 4000m.

In conclusion, bombing with AI can only be done at relatively low altitude now. This means flying slow in formation in the reach of light flak. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS!

p.s. I mostly talk about He-111 here. Also AI Stukas won't begin dive from above 3000m.

WWSensei
02-12-2004, 09:47 AM
"Other thing preventing effective high altitude bombing is the poor high alt performance of AI bombers. It seems like they cannot change superchargers to phase 2. They just cannot fly 300 IAS when over 4000m."

You can verify the switch to Stage 2 by watching the manifold pressure. However, it isn't an instant boost. In fact, the He111s worst perfromance area is between 4000m and 6000m. At 6000m the He111 travels it's fastest. Also, it would be better to use TAS rather than IAS since IAS is going to vary by altitude. 300 IAS at 3000m is not the same as 300 IAS at 5000m.

For GA attack you correct on the bombing bug but if they are assigned a specific target they do release their bombs.

polkku
02-12-2004, 10:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWSensei:
You can verify the switch to Stage 2 by watching the manifold pressure. However, it isn't an instant boost. In fact, the He111s worst perfromance area is between 4000m and 6000m. At 6000m the He111 travels it's fastest. Also, it would be better to use TAS rather than IAS since IAS is going to vary by altitude. 300 IAS at 3000m is not the same as 300 IAS at 5000m.

For GA attack you correct on the bombing bug but if they are assigned a specific target they do release their bombs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You seemed to miss my point about the supercharger thing. I know what it does and what it is. My point was when you rise above 4000m with AI as wingman, the AI stays further and further back behind you, as if it could not change the supercharger from #1 to #2.
About the IAS, I was just too lazy to check the chart. I could have said AI cannot go 420km/h TAS in 6000m, which is a good bombing speed and altitude for a He-111.

And about the specific target for AI bombers, there isn't always a proper one (not in online campaigns such as VEF anyway) and this causes the problems and restricts the possibilities. The "drop bombs" radio command would solve this.

Vipez-
02-22-2004, 06:49 AM
yup this is a problem indeed.. Oleg has said, that the next add-on will tweak some AI-behaviour concerning bomber' behaviour, which is definately most needed! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


__________________________


http://www.leosk.org/tiedostot/sig-pieni.jpg

polkku
03-01-2004, 05:21 AM
For the love of everything that has a bombload *BUMP*

Oleg_Maddox
03-01-2004, 07:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipez-:
yup this is a problem indeed.. Oleg has said, that the next add-on will tweak some AI-behaviour concerning bomber' behaviour, which is definately most needed! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


____________________________


http://www.leosk.org/tiedostot/sig-pieni.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never told in such words. This is completely reworked my speech.

Oleg_Maddox
03-01-2004, 07:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by polkku:
This is the most anoying bug for a bomber pilot. AI bombers do not release their bombs when you command them to attack ground targets if your altitude is above 3000m. This makes the high altitude bombing totally impossible. Only way to make it work now is to preset the ground attack place in mission building and fly by waypoints and let the AI take command plane.

To fix this, we need only a command to force the AI bombers to drop their bombs. Now they seem to be too blind to attack G-targets. "Unable" is the most common response from AI.

Other thing preventing effective high altitude bombing is the poor high alt performance of AI bombers. It seems like they cannot change superchargers to phase 2. They just cannot fly 300 IAS when over 4000m.

In conclusion, bombing with AI can only be done at relatively low altitude now. This means flying slow in formation in the reach of light flak. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS!

p.s. I mostly talk about He-111 here. Also AI Stukas won't begin dive from above 3000m.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Read what someone told here already.
2. AI of the same type as you flyable aircraft use the same FM as flyable aircraft so they have all the devices that you manupulate yourself. By other way is impossible in our code.
3. AI will drop the bombs only if they assigned to a ground targed in a mission design. Doesn't matter from which alittude.

However "Drop the bombs" will be present in BoB as well as many other command lines.

JG53Frankyboy
03-01-2004, 07:22 AM
just for clarification:

IL2 for example as AI are attacking groundtargets at an attackwaypoint without beeing assigned.
if the leader in such a mision is now human they would not attack the targets after the player gave the "attack"-command because they are not assigned ?


just somone in your team have time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif - could you check the AI behaviour of the IL4 Bomber?!
they throwing away ther ibombs after the first hits and than, well, they are circling around over the sky - "seems" like they have a Jabo AI - if something like this is existend ??

polkku
03-01-2004, 09:11 AM
Thank you for the replies.

I'm aware of the assigning targets in FMB. I have done some coops and it works there. The problem came up while playing VEF missions. Often I command a flight of bombers and it can be difficult to order the AI to attack specific targets, since in most cases there are a number of targets in the area. The mission generator in VEF doesn't specify the target for human piloted bomber flights, and so the unoccupied bombers become more or less useless.

KG26_Alpha
03-02-2004, 07:18 AM
Try this with He111's
5000m set up for target
Order
AI line astern
In the bombsite as you bomb the target, quickly
Order
AI Target all
They drop on the target you aim at usually.

This works well for me bombing factories and shipping they all drop at the same time as you do, having the AI command ready as you drop is useful too.

http://www.freewebs.com/kg26/

Alpha

rbstr44
03-02-2004, 08:06 AM
I think it might be that the AI targets have to "see" the objects on the ground before the objects can be assigned as targets using the preset COMMs messages to AI. They (AI planes) seem to be limited to somewhere between 1.5km and 2.5km slant range in detecting small ground objects (tanks, artillery, etc.)--at least with the TB-3. When flying at/around 3,000 meters to the Initial Point in the bomb run, the slant range will easily exceed 3Km--and will be around 3km directly over the target. I am not saying that anything should be changed in this sim, but it does seem rather unlikely that anyone could pickle barrel bomb a tank from 3km altitude--above a certain altitude, carpet bombing by bomber formations is the only realistic alternative (and these targets must be assigned in FMB, or preset in QMB).

On the other hand, larger objects should be visible to AI, and humans at greater slant ranges (someone commented on the problem of humans spotting the MARAT at what they perceive to be an acceptable horizontal range in order to sight and bomb her from high altitude--in a recent thread during the past week). Recall that the USS ARIZONA was sunk by a high-level Japanese bomber that was level bombing from about 10,000 feet. I am sure the geography of Pearl Harbor along with mission rehearsals based on great intel helped guide those bombers to their targets to a large degree, nonetheless. Picking up large objects on the ocean surface is no easy task, either--read the accounts from both sides during the Battle of Midway. It was the wake of one ship observed by an American recon plane which gave away the course first, and then, location of the main body of the Japanese fleet. U.S. dive bombers doomed the Japanese carriers in that conflict, whereas, maritime B-17's did no significant damage. In other words maybe this sim is not too far off in presenting us a level of difficulty comparable to reality.

SeaFireLIV
03-02-2004, 08:34 AM
On this bombing thing.... I never fly bombers, but have bombed with fighters as lead.

And, yes. Your AI wingman will not respond to bombing orders if higher than 2000 or so. Go lower and they will. It is like they have to `see` the target.

I thought this problem only existed with fighters, but since fighters don`t bomb from high up I never saw it as a problem. I normally bomb relatively low anyway.

Of course this is little comfort to proper bombers who may want to bomb from higher altitude. (KG26 Alpha seems to have it worked out, though, see his post?)

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/P47duck.jpg