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darkhorizon11
04-07-2004, 03:27 PM
Hey, in light of the past year and the recent rise in resistance in Iraq made me think about its role in WW2. Desert Storm definetely wasn't the first time Allied/NATO soldiers set foot in Iraq.

If I remember right portions of Iraq were colonized by the British back in the 1500s. GB held a presence there up too the war when the Germans assisted the Iraqi's in ousting the British. I'm not sure if any German and British met face to face in Iraq. I do know that Iraqis and Germans had sort of a Lend Lease agreement similiar to the US and its Allies. I've also been aware that many propaganda driven archeological digs took place there pre WW2 (mostly due to Himmler's obsession with the occult).

Was there more going on in Iraq that I'm not aware of? Did the Germans recruit any Iraqi's for any battles the same way they had an agreement with the Japanese??
Better yet has anyone made any skins for the Iraqi air force from WW2?

darkhorizon11
04-07-2004, 03:27 PM
Hey, in light of the past year and the recent rise in resistance in Iraq made me think about its role in WW2. Desert Storm definetely wasn't the first time Allied/NATO soldiers set foot in Iraq.

If I remember right portions of Iraq were colonized by the British back in the 1500s. GB held a presence there up too the war when the Germans assisted the Iraqi's in ousting the British. I'm not sure if any German and British met face to face in Iraq. I do know that Iraqis and Germans had sort of a Lend Lease agreement similiar to the US and its Allies. I've also been aware that many propaganda driven archeological digs took place there pre WW2 (mostly due to Himmler's obsession with the occult).

Was there more going on in Iraq that I'm not aware of? Did the Germans recruit any Iraqi's for any battles the same way they had an agreement with the Japanese??
Better yet has anyone made any skins for the Iraqi air force from WW2?

diabloblanco1
04-07-2004, 03:51 PM
Where did you get this information? History does not agree with your statements http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The Devil made me do it!

DangerForward
04-07-2004, 03:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
Hey, in light of the past year and the recent rise in resistance in Iraq made me think about its role in WW2. Desert Storm definetely wasn't the first time Allied/NATO soldiers set foot in Iraq.

If I remember right portions of Iraq were colonized by the British back in the 1500s. GB held a presence there up too the war when the Germans assisted the Iraqi's in ousting the British. I'm not sure if any German and British met face to face in Iraq. I do know that Iraqis and Germans had sort of a Lend Lease agreement similiar to the US and its Allies. I've also been aware that many propaganda driven archeological digs took place there pre WW2 (mostly due to Himmler's obsession with the occult).

Was there more going on in Iraq that I'm not aware of? Did the Germans recruit any Iraqi's for any battles the same way they had an agreement with the Japanese??
Better yet has anyone made any skins for the Iraqi air force from WW2?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the Germans sent a small number of aircraft there to be a thorn in the Allies side. I believe it was 4 staffel of ZG 76.(ME110s) I found that from the Osprey book on 110 aces.

DangerForward

Aaron_GT
04-07-2004, 04:15 PM
"If I remember right portions of Iraq were colonized by the British back in the 1500s"

Not nearly as far back as that. If you
are interested in the colonial history
of the area of Iraq to Pakistan "The
Great Game" (forgotten the name of the author)
is worth investing in or borrowing from
the local library.

huggy87
04-07-2004, 04:47 PM
The Iraqi's were strongly leaning toward the axis. This rightly made the British nervous. Despite the desperate struggle ensuing in Libya/Egypt, they marched a small army to Iraq to take control before the Germans could. At one point, the Iraqis had a British airfield completely surrounded and totally outnumbered. Then they surrendered to the British! Not exactly the most competent military in history. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Dunkelgrun
04-07-2004, 06:00 PM
After the fall of Tobruk my father, along with everybody else in the Western Desert on the British side was heading east with undue haste. He was supposed to go through Baghdad to Rumania and join up with the Russians. So Iraq or whatever it was called then (sorry history lessons failing me, Mesopotamia?) cannot have been too unfriendly toward the British in WW2(?). He never got past Egypt, things were turned around!
Cheers!

http://www.uploadit.org/igmusapa/tft2.jpg
www.nightbomber.com (http://www.nightbomber.com)

Dunkelgrun aka 242Sqn_Cat

PraetorHonoris
04-07-2004, 06:17 PM
It was in WWI,when non-islamic troops (Commonwealth mainly) were defeated by the islamic Turks. Consequently the British arranged a rise of the Arabs against the turkish enemies, which was a success.

Sorry, dunkelgrun, if you have read it. Was stupid.
But the redrawn route, you descriped is not possible, as the British would have had to ignore Turkeys neutral status during WWII and Romania was an Axis state this time. Moreover a route over Persia (Iran nowadays)would have been shorter to unite with the Soviets.
Finally I think this plan was just rumor, nothing else.

Nevertheless: there was a rise in Iraq, arranged by the Germans, but it failed completely.

[This message was edited by PraetorHonoris on Wed April 07 2004 at 06:02 PM.]

[This message was edited by Tully__ on Fri April 09 2004 at 07:52 AM.]

lil_labbit
04-07-2004, 07:09 PM
1500's LOL that must have been Richard Lionheart then... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/lilseesya.jpg
Night is better than Day

BerkshireHunt
04-07-2004, 07:56 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dunkelgrun:
Mesopotamia?) cannot have been too unfriendly toward the British in WW2(?).

Modern Iraq was created as as result of Turkey's defeat in WW1. The British were mandated to run it as a protectorate by the League of Nations- which they did until 1932 when it was granted independence. Nevertheless, they retained a lot of influence in Iraq and were instrumental in overthrowing the nationalist leader, Rashid Ali, during WW2, when he threatened to develop ties with Germany. For Britain it was an oil thing. Most of Iraq's oil refineries were built by British Petroleum before, or just after, WW2 (which is why they are in such poor condition now).
The Germans would no doubt have liked to seize Iraq for all sorts of reasons: oil, obviously; but also to cut off the Soviet Union's lend- lease supply route through Persia (Iran). Another goal might have been to attack British forces in Palestine (Israel/Syria) from the rear in order to pave the way for an attack on Egypt from the east- to link up with Rommel coming from the west.

Strange but true: The actor, Victor MacLaglen, (Maureen O'Hara's older brother in 'The Quiet Man')- one of John Wayne's best friends- was once head of the British Military Police in Baghdad (in the 1920s).

mike_espo
04-07-2004, 08:00 PM
I think the vichy government was fighting there against the british in WW2. MS 406s and De-520s

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

Kampfmeister
04-07-2004, 08:22 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mike_espo:
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________
I think the vichy government was fighting there against the british in WW2. MS 406s and De-520s.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________

I think you're a little off target there mike. The Vichy French were fighting the British next door in Syria. I also believe BerkshireHunt's explanation is the most accurate so far. Cheers.

mike_espo
04-07-2004, 08:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kampfmeister:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mike_espo:
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________
I think the vichy government was fighting there against the british in WW2. MS 406s and De-520s.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________

I think you're a little off target there mike. The Vichy French were fighting the British next door in Syria. I also believe BerkshireHunt's explanation is the most accurate so far. Cheers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Iraq was british then right? Did'nt the vichy government fight in iraq or conduct air operations?

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

darkhorizon11
04-07-2004, 09:14 PM
Thanks I guess my midievel history was off, oops. Thanks for the responses guys.
What other planes did the Iraqi's fly besides those German 110s.

Also, I didn't know the British fought the Vichy French in Syria? Which aircraft were involved in that conflict?

mike_espo
04-07-2004, 09:17 PM
ms 406s dewoitine d 520s

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

huggy87
04-07-2004, 11:23 PM
I was inspired to actually look up the battle I referenced earlier. Habbaniya was the name of the airfield where the Iraqis besieged the Brits. The Iraqis had gladiators, plus who knows what else. The brits had gladiators plus about 80 training aircraft. I don't know if there were any gladiator v gladiator battles? Later the Germans moved in a squadron of 110's and a handful of he-111's to Mosul. The axis was supplying Iraq through Vichy france.

IV|JG51Flatspin
04-07-2004, 11:38 PM
I wrote a paper on this! Lemme see if I can summarize:

Well, right around 1600BC, Nebuchadnezzer had just completed his Hanging Gardens which were constructed for his beloved wife, a German Noblewoman. The Countess Von Huelle was the distant cousin of one Prince Paul who later became Paul III of Russia. Paul used to pull Von Huelle's hair when she was a little girl and they developed a severe hatred of each other. So when it came time for Iraq to choose sides, Nebuchadnezzar really didn't even have to think twice and cast his best Phalanx against his wife's sworn enemy, now in charge of Russia.

Hope this is helpful! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

S!

Edit: slight historical innacuracy - corrected!
=Elite=Flatspin
The Wings of Freedom (http://www.elitepx.com)

[This message was edited by Elite_Flatspin on Wed April 07 2004 at 10:50 PM.]

Saburo_0
04-07-2004, 11:50 PM
Rashid Ali link :

http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/R/Rashid-Ali-al-Kaylani.htm

More on WW2 Iraq:
http://www.sonic.net/~bstone/history/iraq.shtml

It says the British had 9 gladiators & the iraqi forces a mix of British, American & italian types-too bad it doesn't specify.

then: While the "battle" "raged", other events transpired. On 2 May Rashid Ali appealed to Hitler for armed support, and the Axis immediately began to make moves to assist the Iraqi revolt. During 5 and 6 May a "preliminary agreement" was reached between Germany and Vichy by which "three-quarters of the [Vichy] war material assembled in Syria under control of the the Italian Armistice Commission [is] to be transported to Iraq and the German Air Force granted landing facilities in Syria."

On 9 May Axis aircraft began to land on Syrian airfields. On the 13th the first German aircraft flew into Mosul and the first trainload of war material arrived from Syria in the same city. The next day Allied aircraft began raids on Axis aircraft on Vichy fields in Syria.

leadbaloon
04-07-2004, 11:55 PM
Long before Guernica the first systematic bombing of civilians took place in Iraq. Using the aforementioned Habbinya airfield as a base British forces used Handley Page biplane bombers to shell and gas the civilian population, who were rising up against the British occupation.

The person responsible for the policy was the then Colonial Secretary Winston Churchill, who said "I do not understand the squeamishness about the use of gas. I am strongly in favour of using poison gas on uncivilised tribes."

Aaron_GT
04-08-2004, 01:15 AM
"So Iraq or whatever it was called then"

Iraq :-)

It was basically an invented country for
the convenience of Britain in running a mandate.

It was also the early training ground for
Arthur "Bomber" Harris.

Aaron_GT
04-08-2004, 01:17 AM
Arthur Harris seemed quite proud of the
fact that in 1923 he felt it was possible
to wipe out 1/3 of the civilian population
of village in the area using air power alone.
This was euphemistically termed 'visting'
the village.

zugfuhrer
04-08-2004, 01:35 AM
Iraq/Syria was incorporated in the muslim sphere of power until after the WWI. Iraq was a ottoman provinces Mosul, Basra and Bagdahd. After the war they came under Brittish supervision. They knew that it got oil there.
The people there wanted to throw out the brittish and used NaziGermany for it.
They overthrow the probrittish Nuri as-Said and replaced him with Rashid Ali a nationalist.
This coup was very well coordinated with NaziGermanys attack on Greeche and Yougoslavia.
The 10:th indian division disembarked in Basra and started to retake the power to the brittish.
Rashid Ali begged for help from Germany and Italy. The 13:th of may germany deployed some Me110 and bombers at the airfield in Mosul.
More Brittish forced started to retake the power in Iraq in august.
The Vichy-French forces fighted against the free-French Brittish here.

Rajvosa
04-08-2004, 02:08 AM
Weren't Italian aircraft used in Iraq? Sorry if this has already been mentioned. And what's up with that Hawker Sea Fury painted in Iraqi colors?

Regards,

Jasko

http://2ridetheworld.com/sponsor%20images/BMW%20Roundel%2018082002.jpg

"I've already got a female to worry about. Her name is the Enterprise." - James T. Kirk

[This message was edited by Tully__ on Fri April 09 2004 at 07:54 AM.]

BerkshireHunt
04-08-2004, 03:35 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by leadbaloon:
Long before Guernica the first systematic bombing of civilians took place in Iraq.

The first systematic (aerial) bombing campaign was surely the German one against Britain during WW1- Gothas and Zeppelins were used to drop bombs on civilian targets as retaliation against the British naval blockade.

BerkshireHunt
04-08-2004, 04:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BerkshireHunt:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by leadbaloon:
Long before Guernica the first systematic bombing of civilians took place in Iraq.

The first systematic (aerial) bombing campaign was surely the German one against Britain during WW1- Gothas and Zeppelins were used to drop bombs on civilian targets as retaliation against the British naval blockade.
Edit: I fact, I am writing these words no more than 500 yards from where a Zeppelin flew over in 1917 and dropped bombs which destroyed two houses. It was shot down by a biplane fighter and flak as it approached the south coast on the return journey.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SUPERAEREO
04-08-2004, 04:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rajvosa:
Weren't Italian aircraft used in Iraq? Sorry if this has already been mentioned. And what's up with that Hawker Sea Fury painted in Iraqi colors?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Italy did send some planes to help the insurgent forces, among which some SM.79 B.

The Sea Furys were sold to the Iraqi Air Force in the 1950's I think, and some of them were modified as double-command trainers.



"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."
Chuck Yaeger

[This message was edited by SUPERAEREO on Thu April 08 2004 at 03:16 AM.]

[This message was edited by Tully__ on Fri April 09 2004 at 07:55 AM.]

F19_Olli72
04-08-2004, 04:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rajvosa:
Weren't Italian aircraft used in Iraq? Sorry if this has already been mentioned. And what's up with that Hawker Sea Fury painted in Iraqi colors?

Regards,

Jasko

http://2ridetheworld.com/sponsor%20images/BMW%20Roundel%2018082002.jpg

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yup Rajvosa, there were at least Cr42s in Iraqi colors flown by Italian pilots. Thats pretty much all i know about that though.

________________________________________________
www.screenshotart.com (http://www.screenshotart.com/) The place for screenshots.

Mike_Green
04-08-2004, 04:45 AM
My stepfather was RAF groundcrew at Habbania during the siege, and flew as a gunner during the hostilities.

For more information, see
http://www.habbaniya.freeserve.co.uk/1941_Siegex.html

Previously known round these parts as mikeyg007

[This message was edited by Mike_Green on Fri April 09 2004 at 01:48 PM.]

BerkshireHunt
04-08-2004, 09:18 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rajvosa:
Weren't Italian aircraft used in Iraq? Sorry if this has already been mentioned. And what's up with that Hawker Sea Fury painted in Iraqi colors?

Most of the Sea Furies which are raced in America nowadays are ex- Iraqi airforce. I think about 8 were purchased in the 1970s by an American warbird collector who subsequently restored and sold them on.

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-08-2004, 09:23 AM
There is a long and informative article about the second "Battle of Britain" as many historians refer to the defense of the Habbiniya R.F.T.S (Royal Flying Training School) in the most recent issue of Aviation History. The Battle ocurred in 1941 and was fought with Audax trainers, Gladiators and Blenhiem Bombers against the Axis alligned Iraqi coup leader Rashid Ali el Gailani. The Axis planeset included Cr42's, Bf110's and a few He111's. The importance was the oil in Iraq. It was the primary source for the British war machine.

I've already created a map that will be on our server after the release of the dedicated server patch. It should be fun as it will be historic and be primarily a biplane DF map with extensive ground targets to satisfy the attitude of attrition.

I also scanned the article and put it in .pdf format if anyone would like to read it, PM me with your email and I'll send it out. (it's 2.67mb I think)

TB



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

Mr_Nakajima
04-08-2004, 09:31 AM
The official RAF website has a detailed history of air operations in Iraq in 1941:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/opsrep.html

There is also a book published by Grub Street which covers the period and area (haven't read it myself, but others by the author are good):

'Dust Clouds in the Middle East'

The Air War for East Africa, Iraq, Syria, Iran and Madagascar, 1940-42

Christopher Shores

ISBN 1 898697 37 X, 320 pp, 234 x 153mm, B/w photos throughout

Saburo_0
04-08-2004, 09:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rajvosa:
Weren't Italian aircraft used in Iraq? Sorry if this has already been mentioned. And what's up with that Hawker Sea Fury painted in Iraqi colors?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Sea Furies were modified as non-naval versions IIRC. I would imagine this would improve performance a bit. Sure are pretty planes!

[This message was edited by Saburo_0 on Thu April 08 2004 at 08:54 AM.]

[This message was edited by Tully__ on Fri April 09 2004 at 07:58 AM.]

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-08-2004, 09:56 AM
Here's the title pic of the article:

http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/iraq_air_war_.jpg


http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

ForkTailedDevil
04-08-2004, 11:09 AM
It seems like there was some article in WW2 mag about that battle just recently. Pretty interesting.

leadbaloon
04-08-2004, 12:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BerkshireHunt:
[QUOTE]

The first systematic (aerial) bombing campaign was surely the German one against Britain during WW1- Gothas and Zeppelins were used to drop bombs on civilian targets as retaliation against the British naval blockade.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right there. I knew of the Gotha raids, but trusted my source a little too quickly and didn't check the dates. Beaten to the off by the Germans again....

DuxCorvan
04-09-2004, 03:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If I remember right portions of Iraq were colonized by the British back in the 1500s.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't remember right. During 16th century, Iraq and most Mesopothamy fell part of Otoman Empire, which reached its peak.

In the 1500s England was a rising secondary power in Europe, that had a hard time trying to cope with Spanish Empire -also in its peak- and trying to preserve its last territories in France.

No British colonies in the 1500s, except some shy exploring of North American coast of Virginia by Drake, and some privateer adventures in the Caribbean, just to harass the Spanish and drain some money and power. Iraq was very very far, and well secured in Otoman powerful hands...

There wasn't even a British country, Scotland was still a separate kingdom. It was with Elizabeth I that England started its Empire enterprise.

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

Aaron_GT
04-09-2004, 05:32 AM
"No British colonies in the 1500s,"

Some might count Ireland.

There still is no British country - no such
thing. We're a group of countries under a
single monarch (plus additional odds and
sods like the Channel Islands and the Isle
of Man).

Tully__
04-09-2004, 08:50 AM
Current affairs has no place in this forum. If that's what you want to talk about, find a current affairs / news forum.

The topic is open again. First current events comment is an instant ban.

=================================================


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IL2 Forums Moderator
Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)

Salut
Tully

[This message was edited by Tully__ on Fri April 09 2004 at 08:12 AM.]

darkhorizon11
04-09-2004, 10:41 PM
This is not a current events thread. Although my history was off (I should have payed more attention in medievel history in high school http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif). If you look it is clearly a discussion about Iraq's involvment in World War Two.

PraetorHonoris
04-10-2004, 02:02 AM
@ darkhorizon

You did not see the original posts, did you?

Tully is right and I support his decision, feeling a little bit sorry for what happened here. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

"Wir tragen die goldgelben Spiegel am Rock,
im Herzen die Treu' und die Ehre,
die Liebe zum Volk und den Glauben an Gott,
den Willen zur Waffe und Wehre."

Rajvosa
04-10-2004, 02:11 AM
Bah, censorship sucks!

Regards,

Jasko

http://2ridetheworld.com/sponsor%20images/BMW%20Roundel%2018082002.jpg

"I've already got a female to worry about. Her name is the Enterprise." - James T. Kirk

arcadeace
04-10-2004, 02:37 AM
Grow up!

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/222_1080289735_2032.gif

Rajvosa
04-10-2004, 02:41 AM
Look who's talking! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Regards,

Jasko

http://2ridetheworld.com/sponsor%20images/BMW%20Roundel%2018082002.jpg

"I've already got a female to worry about. Her name is the Enterprise." - James T. Kirk

arcadeace
04-10-2004, 02:43 AM
You've been here long enough yet you initiated it with another of your anti-American pot shots. Be halfway genuine and get over it bigot.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/222_1080289735_2032.gif

Tully__
04-10-2004, 02:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
This is not a current events thread. Although my history was off (I should have payed more attention in medievel history in high school http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif). If you look it is clearly a discussion about Iraq's involvment in World War Two.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've deleted about a page and half that was current events. Those that were involved know the rules (most of them anyway), they've been around long enough. They're mostly lucky they're not banned for it.

=================================================


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IL2 Forums Moderator
Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)

Salut
Tully

Rajvosa
04-10-2004, 02:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arcadeace:
You've been here long enough yet you initiated it with another of your anti-American pot shots. Be halfway genuine and get over it bigot.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/222_1080289735_2032.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What are you talking about? I didn't even mention USA! I just said that bombimng a mosque would cause more violence. That is hardly an anti-American statement, is it? Anyway, I will be glad to continue this discussion with you over PT, if you wish. I don't want to challenge Tully's patience anymore.

Sorry, Tully! Be free to delete this post after arcadeace has read it if you wish.

Regards,

Jasko

http://2ridetheworld.com/sponsor%20images/BMW%20Roundel%2018082002.jpg

"I've already got a female to worry about. Her name is the Enterprise." - James T. Kirk

arcadeace
04-10-2004, 02:54 AM
You have got a long ways to go without being misunderstood. This isn't the first time for you. Just in this thread there were a number of people who "misunderstood you".

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/222_1080289735_2032.gif

Rajvosa
04-10-2004, 03:00 AM
Interesting coincidence is that it's always you that somehow misunderstand me. Others claimed that US had no business in certain parts of the world, not me. I admit, I have made some poisonous comments when I was new around here, but I've learned what is inappropriate. And, believe me, my views have changed thanks to some very fine people around here.

Regards,

Jasko

http://2ridetheworld.com/sponsor%20images/BMW%20Roundel%2018082002.jpg

"I've already got a female to worry about. Her name is the Enterprise." - James T. Kirk

arcadeace
04-10-2004, 03:08 AM
"What are you talking about? I didn't even mention USA! I just said that bombimng a mosque would cause more violence."

What did this have to do with anything up to point you innocently injected it.

You didn't mention the USA ...absolute nonsense! I wasn't the only one in the thread who 'misunderstood' you, nor have I been in the past. You've looked for opportunity on many occasions and other's have witnessed and posted on it. I just don't like your sleazy tactics and call you on it.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/222_1080289735_2032.gif

DuxCorvan
04-10-2004, 03:10 AM
During WW2, Irak was nominally under the rule of king Faisal II, who was just a pawn of Commonwealth and the allies. Hence, the state was supposed to fight against German forces. But, there was -and is, sorry Tully, but past extends its hands to present- sheer opposition by shii and kurdan people, who took the chance and rebelled against sunni government, with the help of Germany.

Germany provided the insurgents with aircraft -mainly Bf 110s, He 111s and obsolescent types- which operated from the insurgent base of Raschid.

Em, DarkHorizon, the 1500s are not properly Medieval History. It was Renaissance in all Europe -except, perhaps Ivan IV's Russia- and it is generally considered by western historians as Modern History. This term use to designate most events from the fall of Costantinopla and Bizantium to Muhammad II's Otomans in 1453, to the French Revolution and the following and progressive fall of Ancien Régime in Europe.

And, boys, you should not annoy Tully. He's got the power... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://media01.cgchannel.com/images/news/1997/ThumbsDown.jpg

arcadeace
04-10-2004, 03:15 AM
This forum would be much, much better if people didn't use it, even ever so slightly, to inject their political discontent. Its pure poison.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/222_1080289735_2032.gif

Rajvosa
04-10-2004, 03:16 AM
You are a piece of work! How the heck can you be so convinced of me being a USA hater? Trust me, I DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST USA.

If you think that bombing mosques and other religious places is alright, that is your problem. I think it's bad, whether it contains armed insurgents or not. Especially as it probably will aggravate an already terrible situation. I'm just a peace activist, that's all.

You probably don't like Green Peace activists, either?

Now let's end this. I don't want to get banned because of this nonesense!

Regards,

Jasko

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"I've already got a female to worry about. Her name is the Enterprise." - James T. Kirk

Rajvosa
04-10-2004, 03:19 AM
And, yes, I agree. Politics are a constant source of trouble and disagreement and we would all be much happier if we didn't discuss it. Finding words that will not insult someone has become a work of art. Hats off to the diplomats!

Regards,

Jasko

http://2ridetheworld.com/sponsor%20images/BMW%20Roundel%2018082002.jpg

"I've already got a female to worry about. Her name is the Enterprise." - James T. Kirk

Tully__
04-10-2004, 03:20 AM
arcadeace, Rajvosa, enjoy your week off.

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Salut
Tully

clint-ruin
04-10-2004, 04:10 AM
May I suggest that in light of Tullys new policy of nuking such threads before they reach 25 pages, you instead read &/or post on:

http://www.stratfor.com
http://www.poe-news.com
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com
http://www.opinionjournal.com
http://www.foreignaffairs.org
http://www.plastic.com
http://www.kuro5hin.org
http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog
http://timblair.spleenville.com
http://www.dailykos.com
http://www.planetcrap.com

You are at least likely to come across people better informed or [unbelievable as it may sound] even more politcally kooky than some of the posters here.

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Tully__
04-10-2004, 05:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clint-ruin:
May I suggest that in light of Tullys new policy of nuking such threads....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've always nuked them, I just don't always have the time or oppurtunity to catch them before they reach 25 pages.

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Tully

Aaron_GT
04-10-2004, 09:15 AM
"This term use to designate most events from the fall of Costantinopla and Bizantium to Muhammad II's Otomans in 1453, to the French Revolution and the following and progressive fall of Ancien Régime in Europe."

In the UK, at least, the Wars of the Roses
are considered to be Medieval Wars, and they
were going on in the 1480s.

It seems now that some wish to date the
Medieval Period from the fall of the Western
Roman Empire in 476. Back when I was growing
up (20 years ago) the start date was typically
the declaration of Charlemagne as Holy Roman
Emperor, and in the UK at least, the early
1500s the Renaissance was considered to be
a phase of the medieval period (it wasn't the
first renaissance after all).

So is there now a consensus on the medieval
period? Is it really the period from the end
of the Western Roman Empire (476) to the
end of the Eastern Roman Empire (1453)?

Hawgdog
04-10-2004, 09:17 AM
I've always nuked them, I just don't always have the time or oppurtunity to catch them before they reach 25 pages.

Tully, I want to nuke some threads...PM me the passcodes and such! I'd love to moderate here, IronHand they'd call me. IF IL2 wasn't in the first sentence it would be gone in an hour!
Heres a, oh, I dont know, a whacky and wild idea...if the thread wasnt about a general discussion of the game..oh, it would get canned! Or in some twisted and diluted concept of linking it to the game, it would get canned. I mean...those who whine and say "all is not about FB" ah....here it would be
Theres about..oh, a million plus websites to spout hate, love and recipes, THIS is a general discussion about a specific game no?

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When you get to Hell, tell 'em HawgDog sent you!

huggy87
04-10-2004, 10:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
arcadeace, Rajvosa, enjoy your week off.

=================================================
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ahem... uh, rajvosa is getting married this weekend and heading to perth for two weeks on a honeymoon, or so I read in a thread he just posted.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=391103043&p=1

And no, I was never a tattle-tale in school.

P.S. please don't ban me, although I guess his wedding is kind of a current event http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Saburo_0
04-10-2004, 12:20 PM
Tully, Tried to invite ya to a private topic but couldn't get it to work.

I would ike to request (if you can once it's deleted) that the links I posted to history sites about Rashid Ali & the Battles & political situation in Iraq during WW2 be put back up. They do pertain to FB aircraft & ww2 politics. i do understand why you had to be so strict on this issue tho.
TY
Saburo

Tully__
04-10-2004, 12:54 PM
They wont be deleted, and the discussion on the WW2 history in this thread is welcome to continue. Just keep it to WW2, not current events, and keep it civil http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Salut
Tully

Ruy Horta
04-10-2004, 03:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
They wont be deleted, and the discussion on the WW2 history in this thread is welcome to continue. Just keep it to WW2, not current events, and keep it civil<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HEAR! HEAR!

Ruy Horta

DuxCorvan
04-10-2004, 06:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
So is there now a consensus on the medieval
period? Is it really the period from the end
of the Western Roman Empire (476) to the
end of the Eastern Roman Empire (1453)?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In fact, no. It's only the most popular convention about the division of History in periods for its study. But, it's only that: a convention.

History is a continuous process that cannot be divided, and has different timings depending on cultures and civilizations. There was no 'Welcome to the Modern Age' party in 1453 nor in any other moment. Scholars found it more convenient to divide History in periods to make its study easier, and used 'turning points' and trascendental events as bookmarks, but it varies, and it's not a dogma.

Anyway, the 1500s should not be considered as Medieval History in Europe because it lacks more or less some of the more common peculiarities of that period (chivalry, feudalism, theocracy, rural living, monacal power) and takes many new ones into History (absolutism, humanism, reformism, rise of citizenry, 3rd state, military revolution and colonization, among others). The date can vary, but Western civilization did change around that time, and it deserves its own field of investigation.

- Dux Corvan -
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Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.