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basdirks
08-04-2004, 01:52 PM
Could anyone inform me on this ?

I have used the search function on this forum to try and get some information but i need some detailed information on

What it is.
Why it is used.
Where to get it.

basdirks
08-04-2004, 01:52 PM
Could anyone inform me on this ?

I have used the search function on this forum to try and get some information but i need some detailed information on

What it is.
Why it is used.
Where to get it.

eXtra_Corrosiv
08-04-2004, 02:11 PM
padlock is an option that simulates the natural way your eyes lock on to and follow a target. look in your control options and you will see a couple of dozen padlock binds.

I only personally use 2. Padlock enemy, which will "lock up" a target that is in front of your plane, that you can see, and that is less than 3 km away and your "pilot" will automatically follow it with his "eyes" untill you smoke it, until you unlock it by pressing padlock enemy again, or unless you use my second bind "look forward with padlock" which will let you break the "lock" momentarily to let you see where your plane is heading.

padlock helps to make upo for the lack of being able to follow a plane with your eyes.

Some see padlock as unrealistic, while I see it as a way to make flying this sim a little MORE realistic.

Be aware though that on some padlock servers there are people who use ALL the padlock binds which amounts to an easy radar function. it basically allows you to see every other object in the game, even objects you wouldnt normally be able to see.

padlock <i>shouldn't</i> be used to look for targets like a radar, but should only be used to help you track a target that you already have a bead on.

Use it how you want, but I think the way I use it is the most realistic.

too bad there weren't varying levels of padlock settings useable on severs. people don't mind playing with me and padlock, but the easy radar crowd hath given padlock a dirty reputaion.

--------------------------------------------
Athlon 3200+ / 2x512 corsair c2pt 3200LL / radeon X800 Pro / Audigy 2 ZS / WinXP / Saitek X45
--------------------------------------------
p4c 3000 -800/ abit ic7/2x512 corsair twin x LL/ bfg 6800u /audigy platinum/ winxp ch fighter stick and usb throttle.

Yellonet
08-04-2004, 02:56 PM
It's cheating. Dont bother. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/yellonet/Yellonet_sig.jpg

Capt_Haddock
08-04-2004, 03:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
It's cheating. Dont bother. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/yellonet/Yellonet_sig.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it's available for everybody it's not cheating. It's a feature http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I personally love padlock, although I had to get used to live without it as most servers turn it off. I wish the game could have different padlock distances as most servers wouldprobably accept close-range padlock.

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19banner.jpg

eXtra_Corrosiv
08-04-2004, 03:38 PM
iRL i could see a spit from 6KM. with labels off and no padlock, your visibility is limited to an unrealistic level. until computer monitors have a sub.1000 dot pitch visibility in flight sims will always suffer.

regardless of what yellowteef says, padlock is not cheating.

--------------------------------------------
Athlon 3200+ / 2x512 corsair c2pt 3200LL / radeon X800 Pro / Audigy 2 ZS / WinXP / Saitek X45
--------------------------------------------
p4c 3000 -800/ abit ic7/2x512 corsair twin x LL/ bfg 6800u /audigy platinum/ winxp ch fighter stick and usb throttle.

Yellonet
08-04-2004, 04:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt_Haddock:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
It's cheating. Dont bother. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/yellonet/Yellonet_sig.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it's available for everybody it's not cheating. It's a feature http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I personally love padlock, although I had to get used to live without it as most servers turn it off. I wish the game could have different padlock distances as most servers wouldprobably accept close-range padlock.

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19banner.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, I know... Let's call it an "odds-evener", as people without TrackIR or people that isn't very good at spotting/keeping track of enemies will get basically the same situational awareness as someone with all the usual advantages.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/yellonet/Yellonet_sig.jpg

Yellonet
08-04-2004, 04:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eXtra_Corrosiv:
iRL i could see a spit from 6KM. with labels off and no padlock, your visibility is limited to an unrealistic level. until computer monitors have a sub.1000 dot pitch visibility in flight sims will always suffer.

regardless of what yellowteef says, padlock is not cheating.

--------------------------------------------
Athlon 3200+ / 2x512 corsair c2pt 3200LL / radeon X800 Pro / Audigy 2 ZS / WinXP / Saitek X45
--------------------------------------------
p4c 3000 -800/ abit ic7/2x512 corsair twin x LL/ bfg 6800u /audigy platinum/ winxp ch fighter stick and usb throttle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I was joking. Sorry.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/yellonet/Yellonet_sig.jpg

Bull_dog_
08-04-2004, 05:05 PM
I'd like to see more of the big cockpit on servers like warclouds and such allow padlock. I don't have track IR and I find the mouse and hat to be rather aggrevating instead of realistic....I'd really like externals but not the player to target button. More options/interface for the customer base is better...never worse. Hope Oleg keeps that in mind in BoB

eXtra_Corrosiv
08-05-2004, 01:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:

I was joking. Sorry.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/yellonet/Yellonet_sig.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry in turn for the insult.


I just get cranky that people wont uncheck a little box for the honor of shooting at my fleeing plane.

There should be an option to only be able to padlock craft under your crosshairs. Then maybe people who use padlock the right way and not as easy radar can actually play on the big kid servers.

Luckily Co-op missions are superior to d/f anyway and most co-ops allow padlock. I kinda like "cockpit always on", but either way is fine for me.

--------------------------------------------
Athlon 3200+ / 2x512 corsair c2pt 3200LL / radeon X800 Pro / Audigy 2 ZS / WinXP / Saitek X45
--------------------------------------------
p4c 3000 -800/ abit ic7/2x512 corsair twin x LL/ bfg 6800u /audigy platinum/ winxp ch fighter stick and usb throttle.

WTE_Galway
08-05-2004, 01:48 AM
trackir does not even come close to padlock in terms of lock and forget tracking

personally i have NO objections to padlock whatsoever .. if people like it let them use it

but to say padlock "makes up for not having trackir" is almost as stupid as the recent claims that turning cockpit off and being able to see through your engine made up for "not being able to loosen your seat belt"

x__CRASH__x
08-05-2004, 02:03 AM
I have Track IR. I really don't like it. Probably cause I'm not used to it, but I don't think I'm ever going to get used to it. It pisses me off to much.

I like Padlock. Started using it when I switched from arcade games to Locked pit. I assigned a single button on my stick as the F4 key. I lock up the guy when hes in front of me. If he gets to far back the padlock has trouble deciding which way to turn the head so it goes back and forth. Very annoying. I hit the button again to let it go before it gets that far.

Anyway, a lot of people don't allow it. you CAN use it to find targets before you might using your eyes in the game. But to me it just makes up for your lack of stero vision and the ability to move around in the pit. I always have the target in site before I lock him. Padlock just lets me keep him in view.

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KSS_Shrike_UK
08-05-2004, 05:52 AM
it would be good to see in the next il2: bob, a 'padlock target on nose' feature. this way you cant use padlock as a radar and you have to put your target in the crosshairs so you need to be able to see your target visually. Falcon 4 used to do it this way, and it was just right.

Shrike
Squadron Leader
Kindred Spirits Squadron
kss.dogfighters.net

KSS_Shrike_UK
08-05-2004, 05:52 AM
it would be good to see in the next il2: bob, a 'padlock target on nose' feature. this way you cant use padlock as a radar and you have to put your target in the crosshairs so you need to be able to see your target visually. Falcon 4 used to do it this way, and it was just right.

Shrike
Squadron Leader
Kindred Spirits Squadron
kss.dogfighters.net

LEBillfish
08-05-2004, 06:43 AM
I'm not sure I'm understanding this "padlock as radar" thing......f5/f6/F%/F^ (enemy plane/ground. friendly plane/ground) as far as searching for a target only works with externals as far as I know....Yet padlock f4 works only with a plane you are looking at (and you can get it by turning your head (mouse or hat) and push f4 while it is in your field of view).

But, it picks up either friend or foe not distinguishing which, without icons doesn't even give you the triangle, and just barely keeps it on the screen (not keeping it centered). More so if the opponent slips into clouds or behind, anywhere you could not see it is instantly lost. Plus you can adjust the range insisting that another can't padlock till they can see the plane.

Frankly I don't get the anti-padlock whine when used without icons. Well I take that back, I do.....That being those with TrackIR know they have an advantage over those without....So their opponents at a disadvantage. Yes, I see how unfair "padlock" is now..... It takes that advantage away.....Aces http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

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WWSensei
08-05-2004, 07:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>That being those with TrackIR know they have an advantage over those without.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gotta disagree Billfish, old friend. TrackIR replaces mouselook not padlock. It doesn't lock on a target any more than mouselook does.

Somehow the misconception got out that trackIR did all sorts of things that it doesn't do.

That being said one good argument for padlock (and I'm almost exclusively an offline player these days) is that it is the only consistent method for controlling your AI wingmen.

LEBillfish
08-05-2004, 05:46 PM
Well there is where I disagree perhaps in that my situation makes it more clear.

My hands are rather small compared to the stick itself which leaves me 2 options....Grasp the stick high so I can utilize the triggers, hat, etc....Or grasp it low with the heel of my hand on the flairing for stability. Additionally I am right handed as most are, and though no typist do rather well at instinctively knowing where the keys are IF the keypad is in a typing position.

The result then is as follows....My Right hand rests low for stability losing use of all trigers and buttons+hat as well as other buttons as my thumb cant reach them and I need to retain a grip. The joystick is central and pulled as close to my chest as possible for stability...(no wise cracks http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif) which due to the required location of the keyboard splits it the stick halfway between.

Having no seperate throttle, all functions such as guns, flaps, throttle etc. are run off the keypad.......HOWEVER...reaching anything in the numeral pad requires reaching around the stick. The rest of the keyboard utilized so panning views off the numeral pad (which gives me 27 positions).

Naturally to move the mouse requires either my keyboard hand or my stick hand. So in that I will lose keyboard functions anyway unable to use guns....and at the moment I require sight it most important...I switch hands on the stick and use my dominant hand for control on the mouse.

Ok...quite the circus huh, and either I lose absolute contol over flying or all other operations to see.............Yet that is how I do it....However, to some degree ALL who do not have track IR must do the same as one hands use is lost to see, and try and track "SMOOTHLY" the target.

TrackIR allows the user to slightly move their head while their hands are free for the other required operations to fight.......So essentially a third hand YET better then padlock.

I say better then padlock in that it can track (keeping your head moving to track the target accross the screen) except those "brief" moments when you pass over another plane (and it must be brief or you use lock)....Yet when padlock is lost for whatever reason your view switches full forward not allowing you to say slow and re-acquire, or notice the plane shooting out the cloud above as you look around.

You must once more move your hands to whatever controls your view direction and try to re-acquire.....Those split to few seconds differance when it is crunch time everything...and many a fight lost to it.

Sorry, but TrackIR freeing up one hand is a huge advantage. More so barring poor vision it easily makes up for padlock in fact allowing you to retain SA wherein you cannot with padlock without the switching of hands again.

Padlock is not like RB3d's was....you do not retain lock until you deliberately change views. It can be easily lost, and to re-acquire difficult at best especially in critical moments.

I find it to be realistic in that if I had target fixation that is how I would move my head and look....naturally however as with trackIR when it slips from view looking all about to reacquire something you cannot do with padlock.

No icons, infact padlock getting even cagier without them more easily lost often the target tracked behind...well.

Is TrackIR fair?.....Absolutly, don't have it save your pennies and get it...wish I had it. However no one is going to tell me it is the same as a mouse......and TrackIR's failing to actually track a plane in reality an advantage for SA....If someone with TIR is losing a con for the brief second to check their 3...then they never had a clear picture of the fight to come.

Padlock with no icons is fair.....and a poor substitute for TrackIR unless you are in a 1 vs. 1 which we all know is rare.

http://www.geocities.com/k2kellyirie/IL2/starnew.txt

Snoop_Baron
08-05-2004, 06:42 PM
I have TrackIR and I definetly think it is an advantage over not having TrackIR (hands free and easy to use are the two main advantages). Also it is much more powerful than padlock because you are not fixed on one target and can quickly switch between tracking a singel target and scanning for enemies. Now external padlock can work like a radar, but I normaly fly locked pit so this is not a problem. There was also an exploit with padlock that I think was fixed (could keep lock when it should have been lost). So basically when I host I always have locked pit + padlock because I feel with TrackIR I'm at no disadvantage to those who use padlock and this way they can enjoy a small fraction of the advantages (easy tracking) that I already have with TrackIR.

:FI:Snoop Baron
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Dnmy
08-05-2004, 06:51 PM
Why padlock with no icons?

That's a combination of settings which i never understood. You padlock something because you want to track its movements you don't padlock it to identify it. You've identified it long before you start to padlock it. If it were me i would start to padlock something BECAUSE i identified it.

So padlock enemy or friendly sounds completely legit to me. In fact, the padlock range should be extented far beyond the current 3km range, which is ridiculously small btw.

IL2/FB's padlock has about the worst padlock in the business. Had they made it a lot better (as in useful), i guess we would've seen much more padlock servers around. With the current crappy padlock it actually pays off to learn to play without padlock.

We saw a padlock range reduction. But the more the padlock range is reduced, the more useless padlock will become. Strange thing is that most padlock lovers would like to have max. padlock range reduced even further. To reduce the radar feature. Which is BS btw. It isn't the radar feature of padlock which is bad. It's the bad mid range visuals of the game that is causing aircraft to disappear. With good mid range visuals, the radar feature wouldn't even be an issue.

Well guess what? with icons you can circumvent the bad mid range visuals of IL2FB. So padlock and icons would make for a perfect solution. Padlock users can ID friend from foe as can non padlock users. And those that don't want to use either padlock or icons, can turn them off or simply not use it.

Padlock and icons is the better combination.

--------------------------------

"killstealing only exists in the minds of score*****s"

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2004, 09:32 PM
You could learn to use a hatswitch and render the whole discussion mute.

Padlock is a good simulation of TARGET FIXATION, and that's why it's to be avoided. You need to keep track of more than just one plane.

The other unsavory artifacts, like using it as a "nearby Spidey sense radar" (which you effect just by stabbing the padlock key at random, and if you're within range of a bogie you hadn't noticed, your view will slew towards it) and "using it to be able to fire at objects in clouds you can't see yourself (yes, I've actually had this happen to me, and I was pissed, let me tell ya!) are also damning. But I can live with them, for the most part, as they don't affect me too often.

But still, I'd rather be responsible for controlling my own views, and not be held hostage by whatever game features a title has or doesn't have...or be totally dependent on the "magic Bindi" of Track IR. As long as the sim has hat support, I'm always golden.

Dnmy
08-06-2004, 01:54 AM
FB's padlock hardly provides a good simulation of target fixation. It loses lock when it shouldn't, swinging back and forth not knowing where to look. It should allow the player to become totally target fixated, but in FB it doesn't.

I've used a lot of different padlock in many different sims and to me, FB's padlock ranks as one of the most useless padlocks in the business, depicting a virtual pilot who has no clue of where to look whatsoever. On top of that he can only padlock targets to a range of 3km. Doesn't matter if he can see and ID them at 3.1 km, he won't be able to padlock them anyhow, which is ofcourse complete BS.

Rendering a padlock useless is just one way of making sure that it isn't going to be used a lot. I mean, if it were of any use i'd use it, but as it stands now, i'd even be better off just using the hatswitch.

Why not give the padlockers a good working padlock? One that they can actually put to good use? And pls let the padlockers decide for themselves whether they want to become target fixated or not. As far as i'm concerned any padlocker is more than welcome to become absolutely target fixated http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

--------------------------------

"killstealing only exists in the minds of score*****s"

Dnmy
08-06-2004, 05:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KSS_Shrike_UK:
it would be good to see in the next il2: bob, a 'padlock target on nose' feature. this way you cant use padlock as a radar and you have to put your target in the crosshairs so you need to be able to see your target visually. Falcon 4 used to do it this way, and it was just right.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That won't suffice at all. That's ostridge policy padlock, only able to padlock things straight ahead.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif You guys never look to the sides? Or up, or over the shoulders?

With a good padlock i wanna be able to lock on to visible targets all around my plane, in the gunsight area and outside the gunsight area, in the shoulder view area, up and to the sides. In short in every visible area i should be able to padlock targets, not just in the gunsight area. Geez... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

--------------------------------

"killstealing only exists in the minds of score*****s"

Bearcat99
08-06-2004, 06:36 AM
I have TIR, I use padlock and I use my mouse pan. Sometimes my TIR locks up or goes south and I cant recenter my view.. andi switch to mouse pan.. padlock helps me out with ground targets. It is interesting when you have icons set at a lower range ,like on our coops, you get the padlock before the icon shows up and sometimes you still have to squint to find the target.

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WWSensei
08-06-2004, 07:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>TrackIR allows the user to slightly move their head while their hands are free for the other required operations to fight.......So essentially a third hand YET better then padlock.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll grant from a hands on/off aspect it is helpful but there is ONE BIG ADVANTAGE padlock has that TIR doesn't come close to and that is really locking on the target. True, once lock is broken in padlock, TIR might have a slight advantage in reacuiring but with TIR I only have the Mark I eyeball to "lock" I "lose" the target a much higher number of times that way.

It takes a lot more concentration to focus on the bandit with TIR than with padlock.

One area where TIR does have an advantage over padlock is in immersion. Hands down it adds to immersion.

WWSensei
08-06-2004, 08:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>To reduce the radar feature. Which is BS btw. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think it's the range that makes padlock "radar" so bad its the infallability of it. It will lock on the target whether the pilot saw it or not. Even with perfect visuals in the graphics pilots will simply miss a target for a variety of reasons. Camo existed for a reason. Padlock's 100% accuracy renders it moot.

I agree that graphics aren't the best in the game and padlock helps make up for it (I'm not opposed to padlock BTW--and I fly offline with it for wingmen commands).

Your primary argument is from the standpoint of 1) ID the target first, 2) padlock...but that is a bit of a strawman argument as that isn't how a lot of vitual pilots actually play. Identifying that an aircraft is THERE is a problem in the game-no argument.

ID'ing what side he is on was a real problem even back then. It's harder than it needs to be in the game but it isn't that far off.

LEBillfish
08-06-2004, 08:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWSensei:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>TrackIR allows the user to slightly move their head while their hands are free for the other required operations to fight.......So essentially a third hand YET better then padlock.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll grant from a hands on/off aspect it is helpful but there is ONE BIG ADVANTAGE padlock has that TIR doesn't come close to and that is really locking on the target. True, once lock is broken in padlock, TIR might have a slight advantage in reacuiring but with TIR I only have the Mark I eyeball to "lock" I "lose" the target a much higher number of times that way.

It takes a lot more concentration to focus on the bandit with TIR than with padlock.

One area where TIR does have an advantage over padlock is in immersion. Hands down it adds to immersion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well here again we contrast in our methods as once I have my target in range and have secured my position, I turn off padlock as it hinders me in leading my target (I have been very fortunate in getting PKs and plane kills with brief taps of the guns....rarely holding them down and firing).

Padlock only works well for me as I am getting in position or frantically defending from one opponent....The rest of the time SA much much much more important to me......As anyone can shed and watch plane A.....Yet it's plane B-D I worry about....Trick is to get A-D where you want them all.....Padlock more so then a hinderance as I like to be able to hit, get a quick kill or cause them to panic and break then hit the next, then the next.....

Just as when in the LE, I can take on 3-4 IF and only IF 3 of 4 are panicing having just taken hits.

Though it does upset me when they steal my kills by flying into each other hehe http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.geocities.com/k2kellyirie/IL2/starnew.txt

flyboy_112th
08-06-2004, 08:09 AM
So, here's a proposal then.

What about an mp_padlockrange that is slaved to mp_dotrange? I mean, if you can't see the target how could you padlock it?

When I fly off-line I have icons on, but no info, just colour (at 6km). This way I can simulate the "Ooh Yellow nose, time to start climbing" aspect, without being told the exact make, model and range.

I agree that locked pit with padlock is probably the best way to simulate "real-life" conditions.

As to the seeing-through-clouds aspect, since padlock gets broken after five seconds (or is it three? It *seems* like five) then unless you're passing through a small cloud then padlock will invariably be broken.

Summary? padlock range slaved to mp_dotrange should be the way to go.

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