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View Full Version : 190 cockpit on - need tips?



tmdgm1
02-22-2004, 10:10 AM
Ok, I'm trying to start playing with cockpit on all the time and limit the wonder woman view. It's tough but I'm managing. Kinda cracks me up cuz every other flight sim I've played, I've never needed to turn the cockpit off. Visiblity in this game out of cockpit is terrible IMHO between bad padlock, shading and tinting on cockpit windows, shading on gunsight reticles (not Ctrl D either) and I just think there's something wrong with the lighting as when you turn the cockpit off, everything gets brighter. When you turn the cockpit on, if the sun is below your nose, everything gets darker. WHile everything in the cockpit should get darker, but everything outside the cockpit should NOT get darker. But that's another topic.

The plane I'm having trouble with is, of course, the 190. I don't want to restart the cockpit bar arguements on this, but was just looking for any tips on getting kills in the 190 with cockpit on. Deflection shots seem almost impossible.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks.

tmdgm1
02-22-2004, 10:10 AM
Ok, I'm trying to start playing with cockpit on all the time and limit the wonder woman view. It's tough but I'm managing. Kinda cracks me up cuz every other flight sim I've played, I've never needed to turn the cockpit off. Visiblity in this game out of cockpit is terrible IMHO between bad padlock, shading and tinting on cockpit windows, shading on gunsight reticles (not Ctrl D either) and I just think there's something wrong with the lighting as when you turn the cockpit off, everything gets brighter. When you turn the cockpit on, if the sun is below your nose, everything gets darker. WHile everything in the cockpit should get darker, but everything outside the cockpit should NOT get darker. But that's another topic.

The plane I'm having trouble with is, of course, the 190. I don't want to restart the cockpit bar arguements on this, but was just looking for any tips on getting kills in the 190 with cockpit on. Deflection shots seem almost impossible.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks.

VW-IceFire
02-22-2004, 10:39 AM
Deflection shots in the 190 is a tricky thing...I've started by using outside views to figure out where bullets are going to go in high AoA deflection shots in the FW190.

I'm fairly confident in hitting aircraft that I can't even see. For instance...if a plane is angling for an evasive manuver...you guess where he's going to be in a few moments, move the reticle to that point (plus adjust for the lead) and then let loose a burst of gunfire. The thing with the FW190 (even the D-9) is that a short burst of gunfire is likely to do serious damage to your opponent. Hopefully enough that he won't be able to manuver enough for you to finish the job.

Actually...in the FW190 the trick against La-7 pilots is to kill their control surfaces. Then its easy pickings for the FW pilots http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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TooCooL34
02-22-2004, 10:45 AM
Use the Force. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I'm serious. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif



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MandMs
02-22-2004, 10:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TooCooL34:
Use the Force. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I'm serious. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With the incorrect modelling of the pilot's view in the Fw a/c, that Force helps 'big time'.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



I eat the red ones last.

JG14_Josf
02-22-2004, 11:04 AM
At the risk of offending readers who take issue with my posting I am going to repeat my perspective on seeing in IL2/FB.

Before moving on it is important to see from my perspective by downloading a training file called Teamwork which is available here:
Michapma's Training Tracks Web Page (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/tracks.htm)

Follow the instructions and load the training files.

Review the training track.

Now consider the following advice:

In order to see effectively in this simulation the player must develop visual skills. Just as a baby must crawl before walking the steps toward effective viewing include skill development. One such skill involves what I am going to call scan memory. Since seeing is difficult from inside the cockpit looking out; the idea is to catalog each view in your short term memory. Once the player learns the difficult task of viewing in every direction; the load of work can be reduced when the visual information is prioritized and tagged in memory. Once the brain is able to take special notice of the visual information gathered during one routine scan of the entire area outside of cockpit the player can free up his time for other chores at least as long as the information remains legible and current. Once this skill is developed to a point where the player is no longer thinking about which button to push to look in the right direction or having to will himself to remember a specific scene, once the player can automatically build in his brain a mental image of the environment he sees, then the player finds himself to be a part of the environment, no longer is he inside of the plane looking out through a cockpit, instead the player builds and retains an image of the simulated world outside of the cockpit, the player can work to tear down the obstructions.

Unfortunatley the program IL2/FB severely restricts the head movement in the FW190s and Late model 109s so as to make the job of seeing very difficult in these planes. Much of the information needed to build that scan memory is missing in these planes compared to all the other planes modeled in the sim.

Look at the training file as it is intended without using manual view control.

While watching that track file please imagine that while that file was made, in real time, on-line, it was no problem for us (Hertt and I) to see every contact made during that sortie. Realize that we were seeing with our scan memory, building our environment in our heads, our level of perception was high and keen. We were capable of seeing outside of the cockpit. Players the reach this level of awarness will know of which I speak. It is known by many names including being "In the Zone". I can watch that training file and not see the things I saw during the recorded event, yet during the simulated flight I saw with acuity.

Notice if you can the first two sightings, one at 10 oclock and the other at 3 oclock. During that flight those dots were placed in my memory and in my mental image of my environment. Those objects were seen in my brain and required only periodic updates for my awarness to remain effective.
Notice also the trust that one player can earn toward the judgement of another player when two players can construct an effective team.

I do hope this does help someone, and offends no one. I write because that is what I do; I write. You do not have to read, that is your choice.

VW-IceFire
02-22-2004, 11:10 AM
Ahhh yes...what you're talking about is called Situational Awareness. Something I've been trying to continually train myself to do. It helps you flying FB as well as driving a car in real life (ie. SA can help especially when you're on a highway and suddenly need to evade a rolling spare tire).

Its sometimes really tough....till you get into it. And some days you just can't...its not easy.

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XyZspineZyX
02-22-2004, 01:06 PM
My advice is:

NEVER use the 90 degee wide view in a FW190; all you get is wood and metal framing.

Restrict your perspectives to 55 Normal and the gunsight view.

ZG77_Lignite
02-22-2004, 01:17 PM
My advice is ALWAYSE use the widest view in FW190, and keep your head on a swivel. Narrower views are a waste unless for some reason your unable to identify an enemy (for example, I still have trouble defining P51's and Bf109's at 3+ km).

XyZspineZyX
02-22-2004, 05:43 PM
How can you say that in this case, Lignite?
Try it yourself. Toggle between widest and normal view in a FW; you gain NOTHING with the widest view but more 'square meters' of blocked space. It's been made a useless view... IMHO.

BM357_Raven
02-22-2004, 06:11 PM
I've been flying the 190 a lot, lately...Lemme rephrase that.. I've been crashing in the 190 a lot..

Try to keep your eyes to the sides as much as possible for scanning (that's any plane). And make sure you get yourself tall so you can looky down on your victims. Come at the enemy at lower angles if possible and close rapidly before they move out of view, engage your guns and zoom away...

Then again.. I am not a proficient 190 driver, so... umm Zen? lol...

Listen to Stiglr, I guess. He'll know better than me... GL!

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bodaw
02-22-2004, 06:12 PM
I totally agree with Stiglr. The wide view in Fw190s (especially the Doras) are useless. All you see is the frame. Normal view is the best.

ZG77_Lignite
02-22-2004, 08:03 PM
Its not necessary for me to 'try it', I fly the FW190 exclusively (when available). The FW190 benifits from wide view in that you are able to see a Wider View. If you are only going to look forward, and discount the benefit of seeing important guages, I suppose I can see what you are trying to say. But again only in the case of looking Directly Forward.

But the FW190's view advantage (thats right, I think it has the best view in the game, possibly short only of the P51 or late Yaks/LAs) has everything to do with its '45 degree' vision (left,right,up). It doesn't matter what zoom level you use while looking directly forward (in any aircraft, including the FW190) you cannot see 'below' the nose, or 'through' canopy frames (wherever they may be located). There for it is advantageous to be able to look out beside the engine cowling, and past/behind the wing (and fly in such a manner as to relfect this type of vision).

Stiglr, I would have assumed you would understand this, due to your advocacy of adjusting your aircrafts position for best possible views. IMHO the FW190 affords the Best situational awareness of any aircraft in the game with its excellent all-around view (again, I suppose P-51/late Yak/LA series are comparable).

Maj_Death
02-22-2004, 08:42 PM
Aiming in the Fw-190A is actually very simple, shoot long bursts and shoot often. Really, that is how I do it and I tend to get 2 or 3 human kills per flight. It also helps if you get the jump on the enemy and fire from near direct six with little or no deflection.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The F7F Tigercat in Aces Over the Pacific is overmodeled.

DangerForward
02-22-2004, 09:01 PM
I always work towards the target so that it's well above the sight, then I come up from below. That's my highest percentage shot. I usually don't fly with MK108s because I'm stubborn. With this in mind when I strike I want to really hurt the enemy, so it's a sustained burst. Any tenative shooting and the Yak or LA will get away and bust a cap in yo a**.

DangerForward

XyZspineZyX
02-22-2004, 09:09 PM
Many of you are expressing problems with the gunnery aspect, due to the *cough* placement of the Revi and the metal bar at the bottom of the forward canopy glass.

For me this isn't so much of a problem. By the time i'm moving in for a shot, I've got a mental picture of where the bogie has gone and is going, so if the gunsight is a little tricky, well, I can adjust for it.

And, with 4x20mms, you only need to connect for a short time to cripple with the Focke Wulf.

I still think the Wuerger gets the smelly end of the stick with overall outside visibility; no other plane has so much area covered, and unjustifiably so; the Focke Wulf's visibility was thought to be a big improvement over the 109 but in this sim, it's the opposite.