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View Full Version : What happend to the Assassin's maxim?



BUMCFKSZY
03-08-2016, 07:54 PM
What happend to ,,Nothing is true, Everything is permitted"? Why don't they say it anymore? :(

VestigialLlama4
03-08-2016, 08:35 PM
What happend to ,,Nothing is true, Everything is permitted"? Why don't they say it anymore? :(

It's too mainstream.

Farlander1991
03-08-2016, 08:49 PM
What happend to ,,Nothing is true, Everything is permitted"? Why don't they say it anymore? :(

The only games where they didn't say it are Syndicate and Assassin's Creed 3. Which doesn't mean that the maxim wasn't explored in some way those games - it was, from various angles. The first two games had the phrase said only 3 (in AC1, including the one in Arabic) and 2 (and one of them was in Italian) times.

And then there's Brotherhood that said it a lot (to be fair though, mostly because of the Assassin initiations), but doesn't explore the nature of the Creed at all.

So, basically, it's not the maxim that counts.

cawatrooper9
03-08-2016, 10:44 PM
The only games where they didn't say it are Syndicate and Assassin's Creed 3. Which doesn't mean that the maxim wasn't explored in some way those games - it was, from various angles.

Also, to be fair, those games feature a pretty broken/scattered Brotherhood. Even when you rebuild it with Connor's recruits or the Rooks, their methods and even attire certainly don't evoke the Assassin traditions. So I guess it makes sense that something so seemingly unimportant as a mantra would be overlooked by these kids (though you'd think Evie would have given it a nod).


Now, to have a meta-discussion on this: Do you think this was a conscious decision due to the characters' age/views on the Creed? Was it a conscious decision to move away from the previous games' tropes? Or did they really just forget to add it?

Farlander1991
03-08-2016, 11:08 PM
Now, to have a meta-discussion on this: Do you think this was a conscious decision due to the characters' age/views on the Creed? Was it a conscious decision to move away from the previous games' tropes? Or did they really just forget to add it?

That would be a conscious choice, like no lip-scar on Connor, no beaked hood on Edward, a game being about a person entering the Brotherhood being a conclusion of his arc, and whatever else pisses off conservative fans :p And I think the reasons are 'yes' to both of your questions. Repeating tropes is uninteresting, but also, where exactly do you put the maxim in?

Assassin's Creed 1 is a game that is about understanding the maxim. It makes sense for it to be used there.
Assassin's Creed 2 doesn't have the maxim uttered until Ezio's initiation to the Brotherhood. And then it also rather awkwardly put in the Rodrigo white room to mirror what Altair said to Al Mualim, only in Altair's conversation it made sense.
Assassin's Creed Brotherhood has the maxim uttered, once again, only in Brotherhood initiations.
Assassin's Creed Revelations has it said only in the end where Ezio explains to an unintiated party what it is.
Assassin's Creed 3 probably has it said somewhere between the scenes where Connor
Assassin's Creed 4 has the maxim said only two times as well, once when being introduced to principles to the Brotherhood (and misunderstanding them), and once when Edward finally understands it.
And Unity, again, has it uttered in a similar fashion - of getting to understand it.
And in Syndicate we have two people who already know very well the maxim. I mean, yeah, Jacob maybe is a bit reckless but he doesn't really go against the Creed per se in the same manner Altair or Edward did, so his arguments with Evie aren't exactly about that, where'd you put the maxim there where it wouldn't feel weird?

Ultimately, the phrase isn't said THAT many times in the whole franchise. It's not like people go around using it at every moment :p :D

VestigialLlama4
03-09-2016, 05:31 AM
Now, to have a meta-discussion on this: Do you think this was a conscious decision due to the characters' age/views on the Creed? Was it a conscious decision to move away from the previous games' tropes?

Assassin's Creed III was deliberately meant by the developers to open the games to a new audience not saturated with Ezio and Altair, to serve as a "new beginning" almost. So the approach taken by that game was to strip away the surface trappings of the Assassin Brotherhood. The fact that it was decimated and Connor has to rebuild it justifies the dialled down presence of the Brotherhood. In AC3, when Achilles welcomes Connor into the Brotherhood, he mentions that "in the old days there would have been a ritual but I don't think you and I are the sort of people for that." which is the game justifying the absence of the rituals and tradition.

Is there another reason why the creed is unmentioned...well, the game was dealing with 'Murica so maybe somebody at the developers or the marketing team was worried about the game not selling well if they associated the American Founding Fathers with anything Arab-related, they didn't want the Fox News and Tea Party people to hound them out of town. Within AC3, the only Assassins mentioned by name by Achilles are Ezio and Shao Jun.


Or did they really just forget to add it?

A likely possibility given the lack of editorial oversight, the fact that Jacques de Molay's Sage Eyes were not inserted in time. But in AC3 it's a deliberate decision, in Unity and Syndicate I don't know.


And Unity, again, has it uttered in a similar fashion - of getting to understand it.

Unity doesn't have the Creed mentioned anywhere. The game refers to it as "The Creed" and says "Stay your blade..." and all that, but at no point does "Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted" mentioned in the game.

SixKeys
03-09-2016, 06:12 AM
There's only so many times you can explain that phrase in the context of the game's story in a way that doesn't feel contrived. AC1 explained it through multiple discussions with Al Mualim, AC2 had Ezio hold a short speech inspired by it and ACR had him condense it into a paragraph-length summary for Sofia. AC4's entire story was an exploration of the Creed through the eyes of an outsider. How many more times do we need to have the same thing explained to us in slightly different words?



Unity doesn't have the Creed mentioned anywhere. The game refers to it as "The Creed" and says "Stay your blade..." and all that, but at no point does "Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted" mentioned in the game.

That IS the Creed. "Stay your blade" and all that. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted" is a separate philosophy from the actual Creed which consists of the three tenets of the brotherhood. Staying true to the Creed is supposed to lead one to the ultimate enlightenment, the realization of the assassin philosophy.

VestigialLlama4
03-09-2016, 12:21 PM
There's only so many times you can explain that phrase in the context of the game's story in a way that doesn't feel contrived. AC1 explained it through multiple discussions with Al Mualim, AC2 had Ezio hold a short speech inspired by it and ACR had him condense it into a paragraph-length summary for Sofia. AC4's entire story was an exploration of the Creed through the eyes of an outsider. How many more times do we need to have the same thing explained to us in slightly different words?

Well the point is "Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted" is a phrase that is supposed to cross nationalities, boundaries and people, so it actually makes sense to reiterate in different contexts to explain how this is common across history and what the Creed means in different eras how it applies in different contexts. Like in the Renaissance, this was the time Europeans started to think of themselves as individuals, realized that Princes and Kings were just flawed individuals born to power and that the Church isn't always right. So the Creed means something there. In Black Flag, the Creed fits the pirate ethos wonderfully...I mean you are a poor sailor in a time when the Navy oppresses you and the governments they serve are a pack of slavers...so how is a pirate a bad guy in this context, and that's what makes the Creed work in the game. It gives it a subversive touch.

It is true that it fits better verbally in some contexts more than others...like Connor in AC3 never voices the Creed and I am not sure how it realy fits into his views since he's a guy who values truth in a lot of respects and for him, everything isn't permitted at all. The same applies to the Fryes and Arno.


That IS the Creed. "Stay your blade" and all that.

Not according to Altair it is not.

''Nothing is true. Everything is permitted. Does our creed provide the answer, then? '' -- Altair's Codex, Page 4

"Though I ask my brothers now to abandon their rituals, I do not ask that they abandon the creed. THIS is what makes us Assassins." - Altair's Codex, Page 6
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Alta%C3%AFr_Ibn-La'Ahad's_Codex

Farlander1991
03-09-2016, 01:21 PM
Aren't they both the Creed? Maxim and tenets, as far as I know, are similar but not exactly the same thing, though not being a native English speaker maybe I can't say that for certain.

When Al Mualim berates Altair for going against the Creed, though, he lists the tenets he broke as what make the Creed. On the other hand, the maxim is also referred to several times as the Creed.

VestigialLlama4
03-09-2016, 02:19 PM
Aren't they both the Creed? Maxim and tenets, as far as I know, are similar but not exactly the same thing, though not being a native English speaker maybe I can't say that for certain.

It's not as fussy as all that. In general when everyone refers to the Assassin's Creed in the games, by the writers and the fans, it's the famous six-letter catchphrase. That's certainly what the OP meant, and it's what Patrice Desilets and Darby McDevitt mean when they consider the creed.

I mean if we mean stuff like "Stay your blade/never compromise/hide in plain sight" then that is mentioned far less often than "Nothing is true..."

I mean Mary Reade settles it in Black Flag:

Kidd: We're Assassins and we follow a Creed, aye. But it does not command us to act or submit... only to be wise.
Edward: Oh. Do tell. I'd love to hear it.
Kidd: "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." This is the world's only certainty.

SixKeys
03-09-2016, 08:58 PM
The way I understand it is that the three tenets are the pathway to understanding the maxim, so they are both the Creed, as Farlander says. If the tenets weren't just as important as the maxim, the assassins wouldn't make such a big hoopla every time one of their members fails to follow one of them. OTOH, "nothing is true, everything is permitted" doesn't necessarily fit into every assassin's world view, like Connor, as VL pointed out. In that sense following the tenets must have been more important to Connor than following the maxim.

Sushiglutton
03-10-2016, 11:10 AM
Turned out political assassinations are not really permitted.

SixKeys
03-11-2016, 01:08 AM
Turned out political assassinations are not really permitted.

Lmao

cawatrooper9
03-14-2016, 08:09 PM
The AC wiki (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/The_Creed) clears it up pretty well. They first bring up the tenets:

The Creed mainly emphasized three simple moral tenets that focused on ensuring a successful mission, mastery of emotions, and the safety of the Brotherhood.

They also speak on Altair's great ironies:

The three great ironies were observations that described the contradictions between the Creed, and the actions of the Assassins who followed it. They were:

The Assassins seek to promote peace, but commit murder.
The Assassins seek to open the minds of men, but require obedience to rules.
The Assassins seek to reveal the danger of blind faith, yet practice it themselves.

Though seemingly hypocritical, the ironies did not undermine the Assassins' cause. Rather, they demonstrated the way in which they embraced contradiction, "that one may be two things – opposite in every way – simultaneously."

Then, then speak on the maxim:

"Nothing is true; everything is permitted" was the Creed's maxim and primary guideline. The phrase was created during the 11th century by Hassan-i Sabbāh, the first recorded leader of the Assassin Order.


Most interesting, though, is at the bottom of the page. The engraving over Altair's library reads " إتق دم البريء - لآ شيء مطلق بل الكل ممكن - إختبئ وسط الزحام - إختبئ وسط الزحام نحن من ائتمنك - لأ تخن من ائتمنك". This translates to "Revere the blood of the innocent, Nothing is absolute, everything is possible, Hide in the midst of the crowds, Hide in the midst of the crowds, We are the ones who have entrusted you. Do not betray our trust", which you might recognize as somewhat alternate versions of the maxim and tenets, all mixed in with each other. It's almost as if Altair really didn't see a categorical distinction between the maxim and the tenets- they are both the Creed, and are interconnected with each other.

Jessigirl2013
03-16-2016, 10:32 PM
I think this had to be one of the most confusing threads.:rolleyes: