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WTE_Tigger
09-07-2004, 08:47 PM
It would be nice if we had functioning wind-socks at airfeilds.

Some folks like to fly in all kinds of conditions, having a wind sock would make life easy for picking wind direction and wasn't it a standard airfeild item?

Just a thought. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

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WTE_Tigger
09-07-2004, 08:47 PM
It would be nice if we had functioning wind-socks at airfeilds.

Some folks like to fly in all kinds of conditions, having a wind sock would make life easy for picking wind direction and wasn't it a standard airfeild item?

Just a thought. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

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r0bman
09-07-2004, 11:00 PM
dude, I totally agree... i love immersive feeling stuff... parked planes on the tarmac (W/ CHANGEABLE SKINS http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) jeeps driving by, etc. it's all about the atmosphere!

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initjust
09-08-2004, 12:28 AM
A wind sock would be a good idea. Wind to fill it would be a nice touch as well.

LEXX_Luthor
09-08-2004, 12:45 AM
lol that's right. With no FB wind blowing, which way would the wind sock blow?

A Xen koan perhaps.



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VF15_Muto
09-08-2004, 12:59 AM
At least sagging wind socks would be realistic. That one fine day in 1943 when the entire Pacific was dead calm...

WTE_Tigger
09-08-2004, 01:29 AM
S!

Lets face it, not everyone flies with perfect weather, it's pretty obvious they should be in there, even as eyecandy.

WTE Tigger

initjust
09-08-2004, 02:37 AM
Yes, but the point is there is no wind in IL2 and it is most likely that PF will not have wind either. A static wind sock could be shown but which way should it point?

weasel75
09-08-2004, 02:49 AM
There is no wind in IL2/FB?

Makes me wonder what problems I have to stay on runway on takeoff in a thunderstorm.

WTE_Tigger
09-08-2004, 03:41 AM
Actually ther is Wind, you just have to play in poorer weather conditions.

Try Taxiing down the runway when the conditions are set to Thunder or Rain...

S!

Tigger

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IV_JG51_Razor
09-08-2004, 08:38 AM
That crosswind in the stormy conditions wouldn't reach the windsock, it's up to high! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif As soon as you break ground, the wind goes away.

Razor
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initjust
09-08-2004, 08:41 AM
Thanks for the info. That is interesting.

Apart from using the thunder or rain/snow weather settings is there a way to control the wind and specify it's direction, velocity, base and top of the wind layer in FMB? Is it just a surface wind or does it extend upward to some altitude?

If it extends upward to any appreciable altitude then it is absolutely critical to know it's direction and velocity or you will never be able to make any wind drift adjustment!

If it is just surface wind and only is present in the first 1 or 2 hundred feet then that is an entirely different situation.

Is it possible to have multiple wind layers? Is there a way to add just wind or is it only a factor with rain/snow and/or thunder settings?

I have not found any way to do add just wind in FMB.

Also, I have not noticed any wind with Clear, Good or Hazy conditions so I am curious.

Having wind and no way to know/control it's direction/velocity/altitude is as big a problem/deficiency as no wind at all.

IV_JG51_Razor
09-08-2004, 11:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by initjust:
Thanks for the info. That is interesting.

Apart from using the thunder or rain/snow weather settings is there a way to control the wind and specify it's direction, velocity, base and top of the wind layer in FMB? Is it just a surface wind or does it extend upward to some altitude?

No, there is no way to adjust wind in the FMB. The crosswind you experience in the "stormy" conditions is strictly a surface wind. By surface wind, I mean that you only experience it while on the surface! As soon as your wheels break free of the ground, it goes away. After taking off, notice that there is no crab angle required to track straight down the centerline of the runway, nor is there any drift at any altitude once airborne.

If it extends upward to any appreciable altitude then it is absolutely critical to know it's direction and velocity or you will never be able to make any wind drift adjustment!

See above. No drift correction required, nor is there any effect on bombs or rockets fired at ground targets.

If it is just surface wind and only is present in the first 1 or 2 hundred feet then that is an entirely different situation.

See above.

Is it possible to have multiple wind layers? Is there a way to add just wind or is it only a factor with rain/snow and/or thunder settings?

No, see above.

I have not found any way to do add just wind in FMB.

That's because there isn't any.

Also, I have not noticed any wind with Clear, Good or Hazy conditions so I am curious.

If you select "poor" conditions, you will notice turbulance below 3-500m AGL, however there is no difference in visability, nor is there any wind.

Having wind and no way to know/control it's direction/velocity/altitude is as big a problem/deficiency as no wind at all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that it would require a major rework of the IL-2FB game engine to model wind of any kind such as you're talking about in here, and I doubt very much if they have any plans on doing that. It's too bad, since carrier operations rely so much on wind to safely operate heavily laden aircraft off of such small runways. It will be interesting to see how Oleg and Luthier handle this. We know that the CVs will be static in DF servers, so this will pose their greatest challange. In Single player, and Coop missions, they will probably have to make the CVs steam a little faster than normal, or at the very least, at their maximum allowable speed in order to get enough wind over the deck for safe take offs and landings.

According to Merlin_6, who has been posting those videos from the Check6 website, the difference in wind over the deck between a static carrier and one that is moving in a Coop, or Single player mission, is only 30-40 Kph. That works out to only 16-21.5 Kts. I don't think that will be enough to get some of the planes in PF off the deck if they are loded down with ordinance, and are spotted abeam the island to start their takeoff run as was SOP in RL. So far, in every video, or even screen shot we've seen, none of the aircraft have begun their takeoff run that far forward, nor have any of the fighters been burdened with any external ordinance. I do realize that all these videos and screens were taken from an early beta, and I hold great expectations that they will get this figured out before release. If they don't, then all the eye candy in the world won't make you feel any better about going into the drink every time while trying to head out to sink the other side's carrier.

Razor
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[This message was edited by IV_JG51_Razor on Wed September 08 2004 at 11:23 AM.]

stubby
09-08-2004, 11:31 AM
Remember the Japense carriers in 'Midway' and 'Tora Tora Tora' where they used smoke on the front of the deck for showing wind flow. Was that real or just some Hollywood embellishment?

Fliger747
09-08-2004, 04:18 PM
STEAM! Usefull for the ships conn to get pointed right into the wind, not so much for the aviators. My recollection was that the US carriers had an anemometer readout on the bridge showing both relative wind and direction.

MS Flightsim is good about wind, being able to set layers of varying direction and intensity. It IS (Clintonian emphasis) possible to do this.

Baco-ECV56
09-08-2004, 04:47 PM
Fliger: Yes it IS posible, you just have to rewrite the entire FB engine....

Peopel: PF is based on the FB engine so please stop caliming tha CFS can do this or that, well FB can´t. Like it or not That is the way it is.


Now regarding wind, In AEP, Not sure if it was present before (at least not that high), I do experience lots of turbulence even up to 300 or 400 mts.

I have a hard time leveling the plane and the IAS indicator just goes wild. Ussually its inside fog that I experience this "weather" efects.

So there is no wind but there is Turbulence. If trasnported to PF to land in such conditions in a carrier is coing to be quite a challenge http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Fliger747
09-08-2004, 05:11 PM
Perhaps they should re-write the whole engine if it's not up to state-of-the art. I'm a professional pilot, not a simmer and not tied to any particular brand of sim. I expect a lot!

It could be done, that it is not is a dissapointment and subtracts form the final result. There is a difference between a dogfight game with ships and a simulation.

Let us all hope for the best!

initjust
09-08-2004, 05:25 PM
"Peopel: PF is based on the FB engine so please stop caliming tha CFS can do this or that, well FB can´t. Like it or not That is the way it is."

Then I suppose we better get accustomed to referring to PF as a game and not a simulator.

Wind was such a critical aspect of aviation during WWII in the PTO that it was probably a much more deadly threat than any IJN or IJAAF pilot ever was.

Wind was a very real, very deadly enemy to ALL aviators flying in the PTO.

It was the reason aircraft carriers diverted from their course in order to recover their AC. In some cases this meant turning and sailing in the opposite direction from other AC that were trying to get home and were already low on fuel!

Just look at the track of any carrier as it sailed duing WWII and was launching and recovering AC. Just look at the tracks of the US carrier during the Battle of The Coral Sea. Just by looking at their track you can easily tell when they launched or recovered AC because their track turns into a bit of a cork screw.

In my opinion wind is as vital for a real WWII PTO simulator as aircraft carriers are.

Not having wind is a very serious ommission from any game that wants to be considered a WWII PTO simulator.

Baco-ECV56
09-08-2004, 05:26 PM
Yes I understand Fliger, but the whole proyect is based on FB´s engine.

Nobady has stated that they are building the next generation of state of the art Simulators, They are onlly adding some features to FB.

The next generation of Fligt Sims is BOB, and its due out in 2005.

And I also expect a lot from BOB.

But thinking about it: Sorry for being an anoying "Fanboy", hehe, you sure can ask all you want.
Its your right to do so http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Fliger747
09-08-2004, 05:31 PM
I understand fully, this is a commercial product, needing to be sucessfull in a commercial market. I only post these comments in hopes that the level of what is possible is SOMEDAY more closely approached. The graphic clips so far look to be great.

It will be what it is. I spend a good portion of my life flying the Pacific and am in hopes that the rare Pacific sim (haven't been a lot as of late) is as good as it could be!

WTE_Tigger
09-08-2004, 05:47 PM
Well we have wind effects while your still on the ground and turbulence effects when your wheels leave the ground.

okay maybe the windsock can just show the relative wind direction for planes on the ground. thats fine. And if not, ok no worries BOB is going to have dynamic changing weather i can wait till then. But even as eye candy you expect to see them on the airfeild somwhere.

S!

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darkhorizon11
09-09-2004, 10:16 AM
Thanks for the info. That is interesting.

Apart from using the thunder or rain/snow weather settings is there a way to control the wind and specify it's direction, velocity, base and top of the wind layer in FMB? Is it just a surface wind or does it extend upward to some altitude?

If it extends upward to any appreciable altitude then it is absolutely critical to know it's direction and velocity or you will never be able to make any wind drift adjustment!

If it is just surface wind and only is present in the first 1 or 2 hundred feet then that is an entirely different situation.

Is it possible to have multiple wind layers? Is there a way to add just wind or is it only a factor with rain/snow and/or thunder settings?

"I have not found any way to do add just wind in FMB.

Also, I have not noticed any wind with Clear, Good or Hazy conditions so I am curious.

Having wind and no way to know/control it's direction/velocity/altitude is as big a problem/deficiency as no wind at all."


Yeah there is very little with weather. It was my understanding that winds aloft are non existant which changes things when you think about the jet stream and bombers getting to their targets. All points aside there, its just to much to ask for right now. I mean its more than just wind that is the problem, since when does thunder and lightening come from tiny little baby cumulus clouds? it doesn't.

PF will improve on this since wind direction is critical to carrier landings and takeoffs, but for some sort of weather controller...a la FS2004 you'll have to wait till at least BoB too see that my friend.

initjust
09-09-2004, 11:48 AM
How will PF improve on the lack of wind in the IL2 series? I thought that due to the IL2 engine wind was not possible?

Are you saying that there will be wind in PF?

I am surprised at the lack of weather and wind controls in the IL2 series since it is purported to be the best WWII aircombat "simulator" available today but is deficient in such a basic element of simulating flight as wind! And, at the same time, such a maligned and bad mouthed "simulator" such as CFS2 includes very detailed weather and wind controls.

SKULLS_Exec01
09-09-2004, 05:10 PM
Not sure if this was talked about already - But look at the wildcat landing video - its a stormy landing with lightening and the wildcat is yawing into the wind long before touch down.
He uses rudder to straighten it out, but sure looks like it has wind force at work - So from what I see their - we have wind - at least in poor weather...
But you be the judge...

NOTE: While the plane seems affected by the wind, the smoke from the island stacks do not...only the rolling of the ship.

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[This message was edited by SKULLS_Exec01 on Thu September 09 2004 at 04:47 PM.]

IV_JG51_Razor
09-09-2004, 05:45 PM
Everything I've read so far indicates that there will be no wind modeled for PF. I would bet that what we're seeing in that video is just the Wildcat pilot reacting to turbulance. I'm also afraid that PF will come with the standard 90 degree crosswind built in whenever the conditions are set to the stormy type. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Razor
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SKULLS_Exec01
09-09-2004, 05:49 PM
man, I sure hope not - very disappointing if so...

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