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View Full Version : Return of an Assassin Fortress: Yay or Nay?



crash_1232015
02-25-2016, 12:47 AM
Every AC game bar AC1 has been based in an Urban setting with hidden away hideouts (ACR hideout was my personal favourite). However with the next AC game being likely to be set before AC1, I personally would love to see the return of an Assassins Fortress with an established brotherhood and our character using it as their base of operations just like Altair in AC1.

I think it would be a nice change to return to the classic formula of being given a mission by your master, tracking down to the target, then returning to the fortress to inform the master that the target has been assassinated and you learn more and more combat/navigation/stealth skills in the fortress

It would make sense as Altair introduced the reforms to base assassin operations in the cities rather than have a big obvious fortress that is bounfd to be attacked. therefore assassin branches before altair were based in fortresses

what are your thoughts?

Xstantin
02-25-2016, 03:00 AM
Anything better than a train

Civona
02-25-2016, 03:35 AM
I guess you missed that the new game is going to be set before the Assassins existed as an order!

Anyways, I feel like the whole "home base" idea is hard to make work in an open world game about exploration: the player doesn't really want to keep returning to one spot if the only reason to is some total contrivance.

Following with the whole "like the witcher" thing, I prefer for the story of the character to be about travelling, so their experience mirrors that of the player's. Even when we get to an era where the actual Assassin order is around, I think we should still be wanderers, and our base of operations should be far away and not really part of the game.

After all, it feels a bit weird that assassin safehouses are so numerous. There should be some cities where the player is alone, and not surrounded by direct allies of the order.

VestigialLlama4
02-25-2016, 04:21 AM
Every AC game bar AC1 has been based in an Urban setting with hidden away hideouts (ACR hideout was my personal favourite). However with the next AC game being likely to be set before AC1, I personally would love to see the return of an Assassins Fortress with an established brotherhood and our character using it as their base of operations just like Altair in AC1.

I think it would be a nice change to return to the classic formula of being given a mission by your master, tracking down to the target, then returning to the fortress to inform the master that the target has been assassinated and you learn more and more combat/navigation/stealth skills in the fortress

It would make sense as Altair introduced the reforms to base assassin operations in the cities rather than have a big obvious fortress that is bounfd to be attacked. therefore assassin branches before altair were based in fortresses

what are your thoughts?

I think you are misremembering AC1. The Fortress in Masyaf is not really Altair's base. It's just headquarters he reports to. When Altair is actually in the field, his true base is the Assassin's Bureau.

I personally prefer Assassins blending in among cities and having modest operations facilities. To me Isola Teverina in Brotherhood is the ideal...it's arterially connected to almost every part of Rome, just under Borgia's nose, and outwardly it's a small section of the city with shops and people around it.

But of course the all-time greatest AC Fortress is the Jackdaw.

Farlander1991
02-25-2016, 09:17 AM
Well, a lot of games have Assassin fortresses actually outside of AC1.

AC2 has the Monteriggioni Villa, which for all intents and purposes is a very public fortress of Ezio (which kicks him in the arse in ACB)
ACR has all the mini-fortress Assassins Dens all over the city for which they and Templars fight over to control (with huge battles on the streets no less)
ACIII has the homestead, which, while it's not a fortress, is also not a hidden base as the Templars know where it is.
ACIV has a fortress in Tulum, which to be fair WAS hidden until Edward ****ed it up.

SixKeys
02-25-2016, 11:05 AM
Honestly, I'm over the idea of having a particular home base that's always in the same place and that you can decorate blah blah blah. I would like to see something different for a change, something of a mix between AC1's bureau's and Syndicate's moving train. The assassin is a wanted man (or woman), so he should never feel safe anywhere for too long. I would like it if he/she could only seek refuge at assassin colleagues, like how Ezio lands at Paola's brothel, Antonio's thief base, Leonardo's workshop and Mario's mercenary fortress. Each one had a specific purpose that was somehow tied to story progression. Paola's couirtesans teach Ezio how to blend while he's staying there, Leonardo crafts him new weapons or fixes broken ones etc.

The twist is that Templars would constantly be on your trail and if you stay in one bureau too long, they will eventually attack and you would have to flee or defend your companions, like a mix of ACR's Den Defense and the Villa siege from ACB. If you succeed in defending your base, you get a little more breathing space for a while, but now the Templars know where you are, so they'd be more vigilant in the streets around that area. If you want to become incognito again, you have to relocate. This would keep things from ever getting stale and too comfortable.

LoyalACFan
02-25-2016, 11:14 AM
Following with the whole "like the witcher" thing, I prefer for the story of the character to be about travelling, so their experience mirrors that of the player's. Even when we get to an era where the actual Assassin order is around, I think we should still be wanderers, and our base of operations should be far away and not really part of the game.

After all, it feels a bit weird that assassin safehouses are so numerous. There should be some cities where the player is alone, and not surrounded by direct allies of the order.

Ah, but you forget that The Witcher has Kaer Morhen. It isn't a "base" per se, in the sense that you return there all the time like Masyaf or Monteriggioni, but it's certainly a supremely important location in the story; the game begins there, and the next forty hours area build-up to your dramatic return.

IMO it's important for an open-world game to have some sense of home for the protagonist; it grounds them in the world and makes them seem more human, rather than an eternally-wandering demigod. Sure, you spend 99% of TW3 journeying and taking contracts far from home, but Kaer Morhen is always there, calling to Geralt. This is part of what bothered me about Unity and Syndicate; the main bases in those games, while theoretically good ideas for the respective time periods, were sort of half-assed and never really felt like a place that the Assassins would call home. Syndicate gets a bit of a pass, I suppose, since the whole game takes place in only a few months at most and the twins are essentially tourists in London, but still.

Personally, I love the idea of having a robust Assassin base that you build up over the course of the story. Upgrading Monteriggioni was one of the best things about AC2; it actually pulled me in and made me care about making money and improving the Auditore's pad. Same goes for the Jackdaw, but that's a bit different since it was actually required as a gameplay loop.

SixKeys
02-25-2016, 11:29 AM
Personally, I love the idea of having a robust Assassin base that you build up over the course of the story. Upgrading Monteriggioni was one of the best things about AC2; it actually pulled me in and made me care about making money and improving the Auditore's pad. Same goes for the Jackdaw, but that's a bit different since it was actually required as a gameplay loop.

Monteriggioni was special because it was really its own, self-contained little world. You weren't just making the house itself more habitable for your family, your actions even affected the weather, vegetation, tourism and so on. Every base after that has felt like a pale imitation because they're always in the same building, there's no story-related reason to make you care about the place, and the only thing that ever changes is the interior. I'm hesitant to call the Jackdaw as AC4's home base, since there was the villa on Great Inagua that was cast from the traditional mold. The Jackdaw was something else, something inseparable from Edward.

VestigialLlama4
02-25-2016, 12:40 PM
IMO it's important for an open-world game to have some sense of home for the protagonist; it grounds them in the world and makes them seem more human, rather than an eternally-wandering demigod.

I doubt that. I mean in Grand Theft Auto San Andreas, your base keeps shifting throughout the game. Your character CJ is out of place because he's spent years outside the city, he's estranged from his family and throughout the game he never really fits in any place...he has multiple bases and locations and the story keeps shifting with him. I am not sure a "sense of home" is really necessary. After all, not having one location to call home, means that multiple locations become homes for you, and you form connections with different parts of the map, and with different people. To me the latter is more interesting.

Having a home, just, I don't know, makes the game feel smaller, it's certainly the case in GTA4, where all three characters have bases in certain areas and as a result the city, despite having a bigger map than San Andreas feels small, and this true of GTA V and Red Dead Redemption too. I mean Red Dead Redemption is a very dissonant game. I mean on one hand you have this vast Western landscape but on the other hand you have a very intimate story about Marston's family and that farm. In a way, the game would have been better, if John Marston's kid, Jack was the protagonist since as an orphan/drifter he's a better open-world protagonist than his Dad.

Like Ezio in AC2 has his home taken from him and he travels across Italy and the Mediterranean, and wherever he goes the Renaissance follows in his wake. And Black Flag, well since the Jackdaw is your ship, I actually feel that my real base and "Home" which I form connections with is the Caribbean Sea.


Personally, I love the idea of having a robust Assassin base that you build up over the course of the story. Upgrading Monteriggioni was one of the best things about AC2; it actually pulled me in and made me care about making money and improving the Auditore's pad.

The only base I ever felt happy to build and upgrade was AC3's Homestead mostly because I was building an actual American town and there was a narrative and emotional connection to it. Seeing this land around me suddenly have buildings and houses I can parkour and climb up and down from was amazing. Monteriggioni well it's a big house and everything...but I think I related more to Rome's Isola Teverina.

That to me is what Assassins are about, not building a town for selfish aristocratic maintenance, but spreading businesses, cutting down corruption and taking on the vile and corrupt Borgia guards. I think that is what is most essential for the Assassin base, the sense that you are a hero to the people around you. In AC1, the Liberation missions gave you that sense, you had vigilantes around an area and more hiding spots, and Brotherhood converted that and merged it with the economy, and to me that is why I like embedded discreet bases rather than flashy headquarters/fortresses.

cawatrooper9
02-25-2016, 03:24 PM
I wish there was a "Depends" option, because I really feel like the lore dictates whether or not this makes sense. An Assassin fortress would only make sense in some specific times and places.


I guess you missed that the new game is going to be set before the Assassins existed as an order!

Well, that setting isn't confirmed yet. However, if it ends up being true, then yes it would be silly to have an Assassins fortress before the order was even founded.


IAnd Black Flag, well since the Jackdaw is your ship, I actually feel that my real base and "Home" which I form connections with is the Caribbean Sea.

Yeah, the Jackdaw was my favorite little slice of home in those games. Like Monterigionni, it was essentially its own character. Unlike Monterigionni, it could float. So, it's the best of both worlds, I guess, if those are your standards. :rolleyes:

However, I do think that it's a little more fair to say that Edward had some more permanent homes in the game. Great Inagua was his for most of the game, and he spent a lot of time in Nassau as well. So, he wasn't entirely adrift (literally and figuratively).

Helforsite
02-25-2016, 07:24 PM
Fortresses are too public for assassins.
My ideal home base would be something that is:
1. Secret/discrete with ways too get there unnoticed. This could be a public building with secret passages and hidden rooms which are our real home. For example a Temple/Church in which our real home(a room or rooms) is hidden and that has secret exits and entrances around the city.
2.Relevant to the story: explained in the story why we have it and how it came to be, dont just let it be a random place.
3.Useful to us in some way and not just a way to generate money and to show off random stuff. It should be something that really serves a purpose like we get interesting side missions there, we can only lower our notoriety there, we can upgrade and personalise our appeareance, weapons and armor there or let it be the hub for building a network of informants and spies there, who inform us about the city and what is going on, which can be useful in later missions there or just be tips about the location of a good weapon or expensive treasure. If its just for show, we dont need it
4.Reachable: have one home base in each city or have multiple home bases in really big cities.
5.Upgradeable/can be personalised: let us make it our home by upgrading it - for example more secret entrances and exits - and personalising it by choosing how to decorate it(not to fancy).

That is all I want from a home base.

cawatrooper9
02-25-2016, 09:10 PM
Fortresses are too public for assassins.


I agree, but I believe it was first Altair who "saw the folly" of a fortress. So, if the game takes place after the founding of the order yet before Altair, it would make sense to have one.

On the otherhand, if we're to see a corrupted Brotherhood, a fortress might also be a good way to suggest that. I really wish that they had explored this more in ACU- the mere fact that the Assassins had such a fortress (even if it was secretive and underground) just seemed kind of insidious to me.

Jessigirl2013
02-26-2016, 08:39 PM
Anything better than a train

I thought it was pretty neat.:cool:

As long and it doesn't force us to defend it revelations style I don't really mind.:rolleyes: