PDA

View Full Version : The "Aces" aircraft-WHY SO DUMB?



XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 10:24 AM
~S~

I decided to take my 109G6 and fly it 1v1 in quick combat against the Erich Hartmann Bf-109G-6. I set Hartmann's plane to the "average" [it's the default] setting. I left both planes gun options default and all other settings the same. I expected to get my a$$ kicked.

I shot my opponent down 3 times in a row.

So I set the Hartmann 109 to "ace" and tried agan.

This resulted in me killing my opponent two more times before getting fragged.

I tried again with some other "ace" aircraft, Graff, that one Russian guy with a name like 'porkyson' or something, and some others.

WHY ARE THE ACE'S IN THIS GAME SO DUMB? I SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN MY A$$ KICKED BIGTIME! WTF?

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 10:24 AM
~S~

I decided to take my 109G6 and fly it 1v1 in quick combat against the Erich Hartmann Bf-109G-6. I set Hartmann's plane to the "average" [it's the default] setting. I left both planes gun options default and all other settings the same. I expected to get my a$$ kicked.

I shot my opponent down 3 times in a row.

So I set the Hartmann 109 to "ace" and tried agan.

This resulted in me killing my opponent two more times before getting fragged.

I tried again with some other "ace" aircraft, Graff, that one Russian guy with a name like 'porkyson' or something, and some others.

WHY ARE THE ACE'S IN THIS GAME SO DUMB? I SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN MY A$$ KICKED BIGTIME! WTF?

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 10:37 AM
Have you ever tried an head-on attack against them...? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 11:00 AM
Are you tring to tell me that Hartmann and Graff only made head-on attacks?

[as a side note, I just bagged six more "ace" planes on ace difficulty setting in QMB]

We either need

1)Massive AI improvements to the "Ace" airplanes
2)DM enhancements to the "Ace" planes makeing them do more damage
or
3)FM enhancements to the "Ace" planes, makeing them tighter turning, faster climbing, loose less speed in turns, and a bit faster and quicker accelerateing.

I guess improve the FM's so much that they are almost impossable to kill.

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 11:22 AM
The best way out is to get into massive dogfights with many AI on each side.

BAD idea, this...

---3) FM enhancements to the "Ace" planes, makeing them
---tighter turning, faster climbing, loose less speed in
---turns, and a bit faster and quicker accelerateing.

That's called AI Cheat, and its the most fake thing you could do. I have heard Ace AI already cheats by ignoring many FM limits.

The biggest problem FB AI has is wasting ammo because they can't do deflection shots. Just keep in a gentle turn and sit back and watch the fire~works display out your canopy as they waste ammo, very pretty. Another problem AI has is always reversing while being chased from the rear. Easy meat.

Granted, its different when you are in a massive dogfight with all AI aircraft, cos then you can get surprised, like in real life, and you may have to give up your target, but that's not really true either. Just as long as you are not flying staight, they can't hit you. FM "enhancements" won't change that.

If you are just training for ace arcade online dogfights, then you have already abandoned any realism in Eastern Front simming anyway. But that's another story by itself. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 11:26 AM
Sorry VOL Jon but why the hell do you think the aces need to be changed the way you described?

Do you want the AI to cheat even more than it is already doing? I myself don't want to see this done... I've seen enough AI planes doing impossible turns and climbs to last me a lifetime!

The aces planes are just there to give you the chance to fly against some more "interesting" opponents. They are not intended to model the exact fighting style of one particular ace. How would you want to model the real aces anyway??

I guess people start to take things much too serious. It's a game man and not real life /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/AbzeichenGeschwader/9JG52-1.JPG

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 01:55 PM
Well, in real life, Hartmann don't like get in dogfight. He always break away. How he got 352? because they didn't see him until too late.

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 02:12 PM
If one is too easy try 2.

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 04:44 PM
While on the subject. Does anyone else seem to think that the I-16 is overmodeled? You simply can't beat it. It can climb and turn with the best planes in the game. Granted, I'm not much of a fighter-pilot, but damn, that plane is good, that is, until I fly it. Then it tends to be slower, bleed speed more quickly, and turn less efficiently. Oh well, I was just wondering what everyone else thought.

Thanks
"Hans"

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 05:15 PM
Exactly you try fighting an a.i. I-16 ace fliyng a hurricane mkI, you big shot!
Fliyng against a ace in a simular plane isn't hardly historic either don't you think?
I agree that A.I. ace's shouldn't dogfight opponents a/c that have much better turning times,
It would be great if tactics like Hartmann or Oesau used would be programmed into separate A.I. fm's Meaning that Hartmann would only engage if in a advantage possition fire only at extreme close range, preying and sorting out weak opponents and breaking away from strong pilots! (this verye disciplined rules made him a surviving top scorer!)Unlike a Oesau a Muscle fighter who would tire out his oponent in a long Dogfight before finnishing him off! or the virtuoso fliyng of Marseille who was a excellent shot and could down plane's with a few well placed rounds, and became one with his Messerschmitt in flight.
Then there are the Nightfighter Ace's who whould attack from the Bombers blind spot six o clock low possition downing incredible amounts of unaware bombers.
The daytime bomber killers should attack from the front position where the bomber/pilots where weakly defensed but it took courage and kill to hit one with that closure speed!

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 05:53 PM
Maybe someday the AI will be smarter. You might consider that AI chess programs have only recently been able to defeat chess grandmasters in a 2D game (64 squares!) that has a lot fewer decision trees than aircraft flying and fighting in 3D space. Those grandmaster-busting programs run on a dedicated mini computer (not micro ; ) .

Here's a quote from IBM website about the one that beat Kasparov:
"Deep Blue is at heart a massively parallel, RS/6000 SP-based computer system that was designed to play chess at the grandmaster level. But the underlying RS/6000 technology is being used to tackle complex "real world" problems..."

So considering the puny, single-CPU PC's most of us use, in comparison, the AI is doing an okay job of aerial combat. I do not expect we will see a computer program truly replicate ace strategy and combat skills for some time.

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_henry_blake.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 01:29 AM
okay, you think improving the AI FM, making it "cheat" would be a good idea?
Get a 109E/7 or F and go against an ace I-16 type 24 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
That is the perfect example of your idea

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 02:05 AM
Why fly a German 109 G6 and fight another German?

Fly your G-6 but this time select an 'ace' Yak 3 or La-7 as your enemy. Or even the ace I-16/153. Or any other Soviet aircraft.

You may find this slightly more challenging.

By the way you didn't mention the realism settings you were flying on.





--------------------------------------

"Loyalty to the country always, loyalty to the government when it deserves it."

Mark Twain

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 03:03 PM
Clown, you have just called one of the best soviet aces Alexander Pokryshkin as "porkyson".So i can conclude that not the aces are dumb, but you, maybe.