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CIay-Pigeon
07-12-2004, 04:31 PM
Mr. Gibbage, do you know if there is still time for another AI plane.

I just finishied modeling it last night and will texure it tonight. Check your gibbage email.

-Thank you Sir.

Clay Pigeon

http://www.afwing.com/art/wwii/p61.jpg

CIay-Pigeon
07-12-2004, 04:31 PM
Mr. Gibbage, do you know if there is still time for another AI plane.

I just finishied modeling it last night and will texure it tonight. Check your gibbage email.

-Thank you Sir.

Clay Pigeon

http://www.afwing.com/art/wwii/p61.jpg

Freycinet
07-12-2004, 04:41 PM
whoa, this is new??? - sounds interesting!!

http://www.maam.org/images/p61flt.jpg

(though I guess it will take very long for a plane as complex as this to get integrated... - well, maybe a Pacific fighters add-on/patch...)

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-12-2004, 04:42 PM
Interesting pick what was the rear position on that bird ? Navigator/radio man ? I am told it had no rear gunner.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
07-12-2004, 04:44 PM
Bad Choice, AI planes and AI gunners still see in the dark. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

p1ngu666
07-12-2004, 04:44 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

if u need help, contact me, i may have sent u some stuff for p61 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. deadline is "august" i belive, i guess u got a very good chance for pf http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

ill show this to i16fan, he can also help u with textureing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
<123_GWood_JG123> NO SPAM!

_VR_ScorpionWorm
07-12-2004, 04:46 PM
I heard August as well.

http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Scorpion08/Hurri-1.jpg

www.vultures-row.com (http://www.vultures-row.com)

p1ngu666
07-12-2004, 04:46 PM
luther, im lookin forward to target for tonight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
wonder if LW boys here will be as scared as real LW of mossie at night http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
<123_GWood_JG123> NO SPAM!

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-12-2004, 04:48 PM
Intersting. How many of us can actually fly and fight by instruments? Might give it a shot some time should make for some interesting crashes.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

_VR_ScorpionWorm
07-12-2004, 04:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
Interesting pick what was the rear position on that bird ? Navigator/radio man ? I am told it had no rear gunner.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"There were 3 crew positions, pilot, reargunner(manned the turret,actually behind pilot) and radar operator who sat in the extreme rear of the fuselage pod. The dorsal gun turret could be rotated 360 deg. and elevated to a 90 deg. angle."-Black Widow P-61...information reading from Monogarm 1/48 scale booklet. Another thing to add: the turret had four.50 calibre mgs and was used as defense only, primary weapons were four 20mm mounted in the ventral location on the fuselage pod.

http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Scorpion08/Hurri-1.jpg

www.vultures-row.com (http://www.vultures-row.com)

CIay-Pigeon
07-12-2004, 05:05 PM
August? Ok, I can finish up all the stuff tonight, but making a cockpit may be a bit of a streach. Maybe if ubi would be willing to help me out a bit. $

At least this would be the one AI fighter that might a justified in seeing at night in the fog. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS-
The rear possision is for the navigator/radio/radar opporator. He also shared control of the quad 50 with the gunner. The P-61 shared the turret with the B-29.

p1ngu666-
Thanks you for the offer, but I'm an ok texture artist myself. The reson why I make models is so I will have something to hold up the paint.

I have enough for the exterior, but if Ubi has any interest in making it flyable I will need alot more for the interior.

If any of you fine sirs may know where I could send a max file to someone at Ubi who would be "in the know" I would appreciate it. I have just finished four LOD models and am now setting the pivot points and laying out the UVs. I could have everthing, including the textures for a P-61a and a P-61b ready in a few days.

-Clay.Pigeon

Cess_Wizard
07-12-2004, 05:15 PM
Firstly I would talk to Oleg direct before you go much further.

Secondly it MIGHT already be developed for PF but I wish you luck with it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-12-2004, 05:17 PM
Thanks thats what I figured. We did some quick research here and found that it was origionally intended to be a 3 man aircraft (third man was a gunner) but as the B-29 was more mainstream it got the electronic turrets in favour of the 61 and so the 'gunner' position became redundant. Looks like the third man was just brought along as an extra pair of eyes or just got left at home to make the tea. Also the aero dynamics of the turret were a bit of a problem and some removed the turret altogeather and just relied on the belly guns.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

p1ngu666
07-12-2004, 05:17 PM
ok http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif i16fan is going away soon, but ill be around some if u do need help, i can work on texture while u do model http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

p1ngu666
07-12-2004, 05:22 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gifhttp://www.uploadit.org/gallery/11565/ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

CIay-Pigeon
07-12-2004, 05:30 PM
Thanks Plngu666, very cool

Net wings still had me down for doing the P61, so I guess I'm still good.

How would I ask Oleg?

p1ngu666
07-12-2004, 05:33 PM
beta email, or his email
i dont know either http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
u could try luther, but i dont know if hes responding to stimulus atm

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

Gibbage1
07-12-2004, 05:39 PM
I think this post would have been better at Netwings.

Another modeler has done the P-61. Luthier has not yet accepted it for PF. The modeler is still waiting to hear back from Luthier about this (Since November!). To be honest, I would ask Luthier, but he has not replied to many of the modelers E-mail's for a very long time (since December). He is very busy I guess. You can always start on the cockpit. Its not started that I know of.

DuxCorvan
07-13-2004, 09:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The modeler is still waiting to hear back from Luthier about this (Since November!). To be honest, I would ask Luthier, but he has not replied to many of the modelers E-mail's for a very long time (since December). He is very busy I guess.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seriously, I start to feel a little worried about Luthier's sudden silence. I know there's a NDA veil of secrecy around PF, and that he must be a very busy man, but... has someone seen him or heard him since E3? It's like him converting into Howard Hughes in his last years... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

tsisqua
07-13-2004, 09:42 AM
A couple of things.

First, continue with your project, even if you do not make the "deadline".

Why? Well, Oleg said that PF is under agreement to be released before Christmas . . . finished or not. That means that there will have to be patches to fix some issues. I am sure that the P-61 could be included on a later patch . . . (as was mentioned before: provided that it is not included already . . . check with Oleg).

Additional planes will almost certainly come as well. Not having the plane in the release doesn't mean that you cannot still get her in there. Quite honestly, I don't see a cockpit being completed (to 1C's satisfaction) before August. You are talking about ALOT of work.

Good luck, and I look forward to flying your model, Mate http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Tsisqua

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-bird1.JPG

IL2-chuter
07-13-2004, 10:27 AM
"There were 3 crew positions, pilot, reargunner(manned the turret,actually behind pilot) and radar operator who sat in the extreme rear of the fuselage pod. The dorsal gun turret could be rotated 360 deg. and elevated to a 90 deg. angle."-Black Widow P-61...information reading from Monogarm 1/48 scale booklet. Another thing to add: the turret had four.50 calibre mgs and was used as defense only, primary weapons were four 20mm mounted in the ventral location on the fuselage pod.

http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Scorpion08/Hurri-1.jpg



Upper turret used as defense only? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif Due to elevater buffeting when the turret was turned or guns elevated several things were tried such as eliminating the two center guns and airflow louvers at the base of barrels. With no success achieved the turret was then removed from further production (till the B model). On the A's with the turret in the field the crews initially just locked them straight forward, the Gunner could be dispensed with and the Radardude could be moved forward so he could actually look for what he was seeing on scope. Then someone got the idea of completely removing the turret, installing the guns in a rigid mount in their original positions, saving a lot of weight and giving much more room for ammo, then covering the guns with the original turret fairing. When the B's brought back the turret the idea was they would be used straight forward unless survival dictated otherwise. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

(And to think Jack originally was going to make the booms/fins out of magnesium http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif )

"I fly only Full Real in Il2 Forgotten Battles." -Mark Donohue

S 8
07-13-2004, 11:44 AM
I read that the pilot didn´t like that the props was lined up with his position.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/113_1089291819_super3.jpg

BennyMoore
07-13-2004, 10:49 PM
I can understand that, because if something happened, you could get a mouthful of propeller tip. However, a lot of twin engined warplanes had this same situation.

PlaneEater
07-14-2004, 12:39 AM
Clay, I hate to be a killjoy, but don't start on the cockpit either. Luthier specifically said that the Widow's radar was far too complex to add before release, thus no cockpit.

I have also done a lot of research and there is not enough information left to recreate the cockpit sufficiently. The cockpit was crowded, extremely complex, and heavily modified not only between the A and B models, but between production blocks as well. The 61-A-20 cockpit looked nothing like the 61-A-15 OR the 61-B-1 cockpit, and the 61-B-1 bore little resemblance to the 61-B-2 or 61-B-5.

If you really want to contribute, I'd highly recommend hammering out the Do-17 or Do-217, which has been missing from IL-2 for quite a while.

[This message was edited by PlaneEater on Wed July 14 2004 at 01:32 AM.]

necrobaron
07-14-2004, 01:57 AM
Aww nuts. No flyable Widow. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

BennyMoore
07-14-2004, 03:08 AM
Wait. Is there not one P-61 left in flying condition in the world?

At least there are non-flying Black Widows. I've touched one. There has got to be some way of getting a look inside of one!

PlaneEater
07-14-2004, 10:26 AM
There are 4 left in the world--3 intact.

2 P-61Cs, one at the Smithsonian, one at the national Air Force museum. P-61C cockpits were as different from the P-61B and A cockpits as a P-51B to a P-51D.

2 P-61Bs--one at the Mid-Atlantic Air Museum, currently being rebuilt from a wreck. Far from done. Currently looks like a plastic model kit that has just been pulled out of the box.

Last one is in Beijing--was flat-out stolen by the Chinese from the plane's US squadron during WWII. In despicable condition. If you're going to steal an important piece of history, at least preserve it. Idiots.

Waldo.Pepper
07-14-2004, 12:07 PM
There is a training video at Zeno's. If you watch it there are some good cockpit details. I think I know that the detail level is not good enough for a cockpit but I maybe wrong. At least its a start.

Waldo.Pepper
07-14-2004, 12:13 PM
And another thing... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I just had a look at Squadron Signal P-61 Black Widow in action. There are some rather good pictures of the cockpit...P-61 A and b in there. I think that they are perfectly suitable for the creation of a cockpit. They are clear and from the perspective of the pilot.

page 11 and 21

Its a beautiful plane always been a favorite of mine since I was a kid. I must have built nearly a dozen models of it when i was young.

Trigger_88
07-14-2004, 12:28 PM
if u made the cockpit of it couldent oleg and team just make or allow a Simple radar until they could make it more real? Make it!!!

PlaneEater
07-14-2004, 02:53 PM
I have the Squadron/Signal book, I've got the Osprey book, and I've got about two dozen others--including the pilot's manual and the service manual.

I actually did try at one point. That's why I'm saying there isn't enough. Especially the night-binoculars: every text I've read, including the manuals, mentions them as a key part of the pilot's equipment.

Now, are they like modern night vision goggles? Probably not. Are they wearable, or are they mounted to the gunsight? What do they look like? What does their IMAGE look like?

How does the radar display look? How's the Sperry gyro-based autopilot function? How do the two remote turret controls function, and how do they look during use? What does the gunner see through them?

What about the radar operator? He's got two different radar scopes, plus an IFF scope to monitor, plus an entire wall of other gear.

Plus, both the gunner and the radar operator had remote control of the same turret. Doubt IL-2, or even PF, can do that right now.

There's just a lot that isn't clear about the Widow cockpit. I'm not saying it would be impossible--the Mid-Atlantic Air Museum obviously has enough to rebuild their actual plane--but it's definitely not something that can be done very easily, and without a lot of changes to the game engine to handle the Widow's unique characteristics.

p1ngu666
07-14-2004, 03:12 PM
be cool to have a cocpit
time for some screenies tho tbh http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!