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View Full Version : Muzzle flashes, PLEASE tone them down!!



FlatBEAT
02-29-2004, 09:29 PM
the muzzle flashes in this game are like Hollywood special effects, there WAAAAY overdone especially with the MK108/3 cannons and other high Calibre rounds.

is there Any chance that they can be toned down to a more realistic level, the flashes In RL would not have been so prevelant over the Windshield of a plane even with the Biggest of Calibre rounds used during the war.

can there be atleast an option to turn them off, or a Slider to Alter the size of them?

FlatBEAT
02-29-2004, 09:29 PM
the muzzle flashes in this game are like Hollywood special effects, there WAAAAY overdone especially with the MK108/3 cannons and other high Calibre rounds.

is there Any chance that they can be toned down to a more realistic level, the flashes In RL would not have been so prevelant over the Windshield of a plane even with the Biggest of Calibre rounds used during the war.

can there be atleast an option to turn them off, or a Slider to Alter the size of them?

VW-IceFire
02-29-2004, 10:08 PM
Its been asked a thousand times. Probably not going to change for this game.

Hopefully in the next game the muzzle flash will be small and more attention will be paid to smoke coming off the gun barrels after firing.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

WUAF_Badsight
02-29-2004, 10:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flatbeat:
especially with the MK108/3 cannons and other high Calibre rounds. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

they are not the worst affected

Gato-Loco
03-01-2004, 03:55 PM
I don't think they are that bad...

boohaa
03-01-2004, 05:28 PM
This is another reason I fly wonderwoman view and this bothers me BIG timehttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.I love the cockpits and would love to not have the muzzle flashes at all as it looks very unrealsitic now.

BBB_Hyperion
03-01-2004, 05:49 PM
What is the shortest Flash possible to represent on a today standard GFX Card (System)? How long do the eyes keep this short flash memorised ? We have only some frames where the representation of this event can happen when the shortest display event is for example 50 frames /s and you have an event that lasts 1/51 s you need to use shortest number available. Maybe thats the reason it looks so Hollywood like.

Regards,
Hyperion

Dmitri9mm
03-02-2004, 10:30 AM
Whil we're at it: The smoke trail from the tracer-rounds definately needs to be toned down for certain types of ammunition. When I fly the Bf 109 with cockpit on, I am being blinded allmost completely when fireing, not only by the muzzleflashes (witch shouldn't be there at all) but mostly by the smoke the tracers leave behind! In real life the amount of smoke depended on a lot of facyors (temperature, airpressure, dampness asoasf.) But it never, ever was as bad as we see with some ammo-types in this game!
To look more realistic it has to look something like the .50 cal tracers allready do now. This shouldn't be too hard to change, but it really needs to be done.

Oleg_Maddox
03-02-2004, 10:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Its been asked a thousand times. Probably not going to change for this game.

Hopefully in the next game the muzzle flash will be small and more attention will be paid to smoke coming off the gun barrels after firing.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We can't change that easy for day and night time. Currently it is like at night time (a bit even smaller).
The engine doesn't allow us to change it easy only for day light.
I consulted with my programmers and they said that it is really to hard and need rework a lot of things inside the lighing effects in 3D engine. It cost too much time for us including test after this becasue we don't know exactly waht may happens in other parts of code. Need a great test of cross-functions.

necrobaron
03-02-2004, 12:16 PM
Instead of changing them between day and night,why not just make it representative of day(with little to no flash)? I think most people primarily fly during the day time hours of FB,and I think it would be better to have inaccurate flashes for night rather than day. I realize you say this is a complicated thing to change,but is my suggestion feasible?

"Not all who wander are lost."

Oleg_Maddox
03-02-2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by necrobaron:
Instead of changing them between day and night,why not just make it representative of day(with little to no flash)? I think most people primarily fly during the day time hours of FB,and I think it would be better to have inaccurate flashes for night rather than day. I realize you say this is a complicated thing to change,but is my suggestion feasible?

"Not all who wander are lost."

Didn't I replyed already:
"The engine doesn't allow us to change it easy only for day light."

necrobaron
03-02-2004, 12:58 PM
Sorry. I thought you meant the engine couldn't handle *different* flashes for night *and* day.

"Not all who wander are lost."

boohaa
03-02-2004, 06:17 PM
I can handle the big guy tellin us many things they cant do but get rid of the muzzle flashes completley is not that hard to do IMHO.

Oleg,you say that it doesnt allow you to change easily.Now that word easily is eating at me big time.It means it can be done with some effort yes but iCAN be done!!!Its not like we are asking to change the revi in FW190's since you say that they are correct.But you agree that this is wrong in FB.

I know you have many more important things to take care of but this really should be a priority.Oh well I had to say that and get it off my chest.

WUAF_Badsight
03-02-2004, 10:48 PM
i have been watching this topic for over TWO YEARS

BELOW is the most complete answer yet about why it cannot be changed

read & move on people ...... how many of us want our favourite game toyed with ?

personally FB is stable for me ....... we have come a long way to get this bug free




Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
We can't change that easy for day and night time. Currently it is like at night time (a bit even smaller).
The engine doesn't allow us to change it easy only for day light.
I consulted with my programmers and they said that it is really to hard and need rework a lot of things inside the lighing effects in 3D engine. It cost too much time for us including test after this becasue we don't know exactly waht may happens in other parts of code. Need a great test of cross-functions.

Recon_609IAP
03-03-2004, 05:32 AM
Not everyone is here every day for 2 years Badsight

I suggest a FAQ instead of scattered responses across thousands and thousands of posts.

S!
609IAP_Recon

http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg
Agnus Dei, Qui Tollis peccata mundi, Miserere nobis. Dona nobis pacem
http://www.jarsofclay.com/

Bansai Potato
03-03-2004, 06:06 AM
So some of you have sat down behind a pair of heavy calibre machine guns and let rip from your cockpit?

No i did'nt think so, have you even seen the muzzle flash off of a light machine gun up close, again probably not, so what do you base your arguments on.

I have seen and created the muzzle flash from a GPMG on a British Navy shooting range, and let me tell you its huge on sustained fire mode, it appears to grow constantly the longer you fire for.

Also if you realism junkies want the muzzle flashes removed to aid in shooting and vision, you can hardly complain at players flying in a 'goldfish bowl' to aid in shooting and vision. Neither are realistic.

http://homepage.hispeed.ch/Ede_EAF92/EAF/24890632.92EastIndiaSquadronpersonnel.jpg

LLv34_Flanker
03-03-2004, 06:13 AM
S!

Been also shooting with guns in real life. Broad daylight there's almost no muzzle flash that You see, more likely it is the smoke. In "dimmer" conditions it can be seen to some degree and in darkness there's a clear flash.

IL-2/FB has night time flashes on broad daylight which is wrong, but as The Man himself stated can't be changed quickly. A feature that should have been looked into already in original IL-2. Let's hope BoB has them better done.

Flanker
1.Lentue p√¬§√¬§llikk√¬∂ / TO
Lentolaivue 34

"Let Chaos entvine on defenseless soil!" ~Dimmu Borgir~

wideblade
03-03-2004, 06:19 AM
Dont think they are so bad,and in my opinion they add some graphic power to the game...

VVS-Manuc
03-03-2004, 08:41 AM
Look at the Bf 110 **** pit view

url]http://ubbxforums-de.ubi.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=59010161&f=388104122&m=197109652[/url]

poor germans... :(

Gunner_361st
03-03-2004, 09:30 AM
Yeah, fixed muzzle flashes would be nice, and I'm sure Oleg + Crew will get around to it.

Flanker is right though... Shooting my 30.06 Remington 700 rifle during a sunny day, you can't see the muzzle flash. Fire it when it starts getting dark though, and the fireball is very easy to see. :)

I have also watched training video of B17 gunners, and it said that when you see smoke bursts coming from the fighter airplane, it means he is firing at you. ~S~

Captain Gunner of the 361st vFG

http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1039.jpg

tolwyn.com
03-03-2004, 10:27 AM
{
#Start Function
dim tod_f
get tod
if not tod &gt;=0500 and
if not tod &lt;=2000 then
muzzleflash.day
else
muzzleflash.night
end if
end if
}

Heh. I can program a rubber duck. That's about it.

My personal licensing agreement: In exchange for my hard-earned cash for your product, you agree to the following terms: No part of my hardware may be used as a mechanism to verify or reverify my economical patronage. My receipt will serve that purpose. If you disagree with this license, you may return my money to me, and I'll return your product. :)

Bansai Potato
03-03-2004, 10:40 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gunner_361st:
Shooting my 30.06 Remington 700 rifle during a sunny day, you can't see the muzzle flash. Fire it when it starts getting dark though, and the fireball is very easy to see. :)


No offence Gunner but your Remington 700 (BDL ?) is a little different to a Heavy calibre machine gun, you must remember that you get an accumulator effect down the barrel, of unburnt gunpowder and expanding gases, which results in muzzle flash, why do you think modern weapons such as M16s and UK's piss pot weapon SA80 (plus most other modern weaponry) have flash suppressors which are designed to disperse the flash through 360 degs upon its exit of the barrel instead of leaping out of the end.

http://homepage.hispeed.ch/Ede_EAF92/EAF/24890632.92EastIndiaSquadronpersonnel.jpg

FritzFrotz
03-03-2004, 11:39 AM
Would it be possible to remove the flashes completely when the player is inside the cockpit? Would it be possible to leave all the lighting effects as they are and only remove the muzzle flash texture?

Andy

Rene_Nicklas
03-04-2004, 07:17 AM
Hi all,

Just my 2 cents:

Light machineguns has a very small muzzle flash in daylight..barely visible.
In the darknes I found it just as difficult to see when shooting the weapon...but visible to others, but very much the same as in daylight.
The weapon was the danish MG M/62..the same one used in the german army as MG42, just rebarreled to 7,62mm.

The 50.Cal Browning isn't that much different in daylight..but produces a great amount of smoke! In the darkness however the the muzzle flash is visible to the gunner, but not to the point of blinding him.
The tracers are a little hard to see in daylight( ammunition was from the marshall help, produced in 1945 ). I've seen the tracers in red, yellow and green..all found in the same belt, directly used from the original case.

As for the big ones, the Oerlikon 25mm canon produced no visible muzzleflash in daylight, until you saw it on film in slow-motion: Then the muzzle flash was just like the ones in IL2. At night it gives a fairly bright muzzle flash, but the human eye don't see it this bad!
On film it's a really bright flash!
As for the tracers of this caliber, they were clearly visible out to 3000 yards, and then some.

If you like, I can try to upload some videoclips showing these weapons being fired in daylight and darkness.
All videos are from my time in the danish army, some 16 years.


Regards

Rene

rpkiller
03-04-2004, 11:56 AM
surely an achievable compromise would be to reduce the size of muzzle flashes (maybe by 1/2 to be somewhere between day & night) as it is clear that the game can support different flash sizes.

rp