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darkhorizon11
05-23-2004, 12:54 AM
What do you guys think if the I-185 M-71? Assuming its modeled right it seems like its hands down the best piston fighter of the war. At least by Il2 modeling I was dropping everything from Zeros to the Go229 to the P80s in that beast!

darkhorizon11
05-23-2004, 12:54 AM
What do you guys think if the I-185 M-71? Assuming its modeled right it seems like its hands down the best piston fighter of the war. At least by Il2 modeling I was dropping everything from Zeros to the Go229 to the P80s in that beast!

F16_Fatboy
05-23-2004, 01:40 AM
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FLSTF

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Papa_K
05-23-2004, 03:20 AM
Well, at least in a '42 setting, it would be the best in game.

Realistic? That's another story...

1.
"Further development offered several directions to follow. The first of them was to install a more potent powerplant - the one at hand was the M-71. Unfortunately, this engine was not yet mature. This, combined with the other non-technical reasons - was the cause of the failure of N. N. Polikarpov's I-185 fighter, which in 1942 exceeded the performance of all its Soviet contemporaries including the La-5."

2.
"Polikarpov's design entries, the I-180 and I-185, had good aerodynamic qualities but suffered from trying to utilize unreliable advanced high performance radial engines. Several test pilots, including the famous Valeriy Chkalov, were killed in crashes while testing Polikarpov's I-180 and I-185 designs. This further removed Polikarpov from Stalin's patronage and the forefront of Soviet fighter design. Other designers like Alexander Yakovlev and Semyon Lavochkin rose to prominence. Polikarpov contracted cancer and died in March 1944, an embittered, frustrated man."

I know it's a rehash, but I'd put it in the 109Z category...this one got further off the ground.

To be realistic, I suppose you'd have to have a catastrophic failure every one out of X number of flights. In theory, a great airplane, but with major problems as it was being developed.

Papa_K

Skalgrim
05-23-2004, 03:37 AM
I-185 is 42 very good ,

but 43 server give plane like la-5fn and p51, those can she easy defeat

[This message was edited by Skalgrim on Sun May 23 2004 at 03:45 AM.]

RocketDog
05-23-2004, 03:44 AM
In 1942, Major-General P. Losyukov, the head of the NII VVS, wrote "The I-185 M-71 is the best up-to-date fighter. It surpasses in maximum speed, climb rate and vertical manouverability both the Soviet and latest foreign production fighters (Bf 109 and Fw 190). The fighter must be introduced into the inventory."

However, the engine presented insoluble problems (resulting in the fatal crash of at least one prototype) and the project was abandoned in early 1943 because of the engine problems and a lack of production capacity.

I agree with Papa_K, what we have in the game is a fantasy aircraft in which the engine miraculously became reliable. In this sense, it's even more fantastic the the 109-Z, because at least the 109-Z would have been built from components that already existed and actually worked.

Also, bear in mind that the prototype was abandoned in early 1943. The time required to solve the engine problems (if they could have been solved at all), get the aircraft into production and then deploy it would probably have meant it was only available in late 1943 at the very earliest.

Regards,

RocketDog.

LEXX_Luthor
05-23-2004, 05:17 AM
To be realistic, I suppose you'd have to have a catastrophic failure every one out of X number of flights. In theory, a great airplane, but with major problems as it was being developed just like every airplane made in World War 2.

I most like Fb109Z cos it brutally seperates the internet Brownie Point hunters, the chaff, from the military aviation enthusiasts, the glorius golden Wheat, who like the Great Aces lust to fly the latest fighter--friendly or captured enemy, experimental or production.

um...the real life Great Aces, I forgot to slip that in.



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crazyivan1970
05-23-2004, 06:29 AM
Just as a side note, I-185 didn`t make into production mostly because of Stalins position towards Polikarpov and then because of technical issues. Unfortunately Stalin had a huge impact in many areas of warfare...

V!
Regards,

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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Curly_109
05-23-2004, 08:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Just as a side note, I-185 didn`t make into production mostly because of Stalins position towards Polikarpov and then because of technical issues. Unfortunately Stalin had a huge impact in many areas of warfare...

V!
Regards,

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VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I've heard some times ago in some TV program that the Stalin has his hands in installing diesel(!) engines in some russian bombers during the WW2. And I'm not making fun of this.... interested if someone knows something about it.

maxim26
05-23-2004, 08:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RocketDog:
In 1942, Major-General P. Losyukov, the head of the NII VVS, wrote "The I-185 M-71 is the best up-to-date fighter. It surpasses in maximum speed, climb rate and vertical manouverability both the Soviet and latest foreign production fighters (Bf 109 and Fw 190). The fighter must be introduced into the inventory."

However, the engine presented insoluble problems (resulting in the fatal crash of at least one prototype) and the project was abandoned in early 1943 because of the engine problems and a lack of production capacity.

I agree with Papa_K, what we have in the game is a fantasy aircraft in which the engine miraculously became reliable. In this sense, it's even more fantastic the the 109-Z, because at least the 109-Z would have been built from components that already existed and actually worked.

Also, bear in mind that the prototype was abandoned in early 1943. The time required to solve the engine problems (if they could have been solved at all), get the aircraft into production and then deploy it would probably have meant it was only available in late 1943 at the very earliest.

Regards,

RocketDog.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you. Engine were big problem at the stage of development of I-185. But is was not the reason why a/c was not put in to mass production. Sooner or later engines were improoved and they served good on other a/c like La5 and La7. By the way many other engenearing desigions which were inplemented on I-185 where used in later soviet a/c, like propeller govenor, for example.

Lavochkin and Yakovlev both used Policarpov's blueprints. It allowed to speed up the development of their a/c.

The onluy reason why I-185 was put into series is the regeme's attitude toward Policarpov.

And why do you think, guys, thet I-185 is such a monster. I flew it a lot vs Bf109-G2 and i found that it is much easier to down I-185 then G2. G2 climbs much better and turns if not better but the same as I-185.

Huxley_S
05-23-2004, 08:44 AM
As far as FB is concerned the I-185 is a beauty. She's my choice kite for taking an extended spin round the block. It's like flying around in the batmobile http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Curly_109
05-23-2004, 08:45 AM
maxim26 you're right, still I-185 is very, very good plane for year 1942. I-185 vs. G-2... will try, but think that I-185's advantage is very good acceleration at low alt's. And of course armament(!).
Polikarpov is one of the world best aviation constuctors in that time, without doubt.

Stalker58
05-23-2004, 09:40 AM
Yeah, the best plane..just as He100D from 40-45, if ever operational in geater then very small numbers...

Altitude, speed, manoeuvre and.... CRASH!

AIRMIKEY
05-23-2004, 10:37 AM
Yeah - I gave it a try yesterday online.. I was kickin butt (and I am only above average - certainly not an ace..) I was takin out zeros, 109's and franks...The plane is a blast to fly..reminds me of the very original LA-5FN's in old sturmovik http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Airmikey

Udidtoo
05-23-2004, 10:47 AM
I wish I could comment on what it feels like to fly the 185 but do to a injury the same day as patch release I cannot sit to fly.

I have on the other hand loads of free time to lay here playing around with skins and mission building.

I have been working my way down the list of flyables in QMB. I set 12 ace against 12 ace and just watch and observe the AI.

The 185 AI planes have yet to loose a match!

The closest yet has been against 12 109'z, 2 185's left undamaged after the furball.

They seem to be imbued with the flight model of the Mexican red tailed bat and the damage model one would expect of a granite boulder.

I have never taken sides in the arguement before but anyone who says there is absolutly no bias in favor of Russian planes has not spent enough time flying the off line campaigns.

Hell, you don't even need to do a whole campaign. Just do the testing I have been all week from my bed.

Even planes that the men who piloted them said were sub par rides preform like champs in this game.

That being said its still the game you will find me playing morning noon and night..well watching for the time being

Oh yes while I'm on my little rant let me suggest this as well.

In the QMB set up 1 plane ace ,no enemy, airfield attack, with AAA turned on.
Then just start going down the list. Give each bird 5 trys and keep track of which ones consistantly survive the attack.

(hint, they don't have white stars, black crosses or tri-colored markings)

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

Friendly_flyer
05-23-2004, 01:45 PM
Oh well, the "Read me" clearly states that the I-185 was included to honour one Loginov, one of UBI sources and grandson of one of the test pilots.

I think that is very nice of UBI, and i think is is a perfectly good reason for adding the plane to the list. Whether one like to use it on a historical server is a matter of taste.

Fly friendly!

Petter Bøckman
Norway

BlitzPig_DDT
05-23-2004, 01:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
Oh well, the "Read me" clearly states that the I-185 was included to honour one Loginov, one of UBI sources and grandson of one of the test pilots.

I think that is very nice of UBI, and i think is is a perfectly good reason for adding the plane to the list. Whether one like to use it on a historical server is a matter of taste.

_Fly friendly!_

_Petter Bøckman
Norway_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, the fact that it was a WWII era combat aircraft is enough reason to include it, regardless of what the no-imagination lot may say about it (or others of it's ilk). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Bull_dog_
05-23-2004, 02:09 PM
I find it interesting that planes like the I-185, Mig 3U, bf-109Z etc...are even in the game...but 3rd party modellers will do what they wish and if I could model you better believe I'd model my favorites first!...thing is that these what if aircraft and planes that never made seem to get the optimistic side...no i'll say it...fantasy aircraft with fantasy flight modelling for the most part.

For the most part I really can give a hoot whether the aircraft are in the game or not, expect I find the online arena not to my liking much any more. I fly servers of all settings, but I like wonder woman view with limited icons best...lets you understand what you're plane is really made of... cockpit view with external views is second and third would come full difficulty.

Full diff servers usually have historic planesets...but those others often don't...I tried a couple of servers today and as I'm trying to work the mk IX through its paces, I'm constantly getting hammered by Ta-152's, Bf 109Z's and yes those Ki-84C's...no escaping them. The allies just don't have any of their wonder aircraft modelled yet to compete...p-51K, P-47M, Spit Mk 14 or 22, no tempest let alone a tempest II...no bearcat, no tigercat etc...

All I have to say is come on dedicated server patch and UK Dedicated! If anyone knows of a good server with wonder woman views that has historic planesets...let me know!

BlitzPig_DDT
05-23-2004, 02:11 PM
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IL2-chuter
05-23-2004, 02:22 PM
"Mustang K" a "wonder aircraft" ???? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

A fifty pound lighter prop/governor combo than "B,C,D" which made the aft cg problem worse. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Now a Spit XIV . . . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"I fly only Full Real in Il2 Forgotten Battles." -Mark Donohue

ZG77_Nagual
05-23-2004, 02:35 PM
mig3u saw action - as did the I-185 - frontline trials. so really these are not 'what if's' like the 109z. Polikarpov is my fav vvs ww2 designer - absolutely and unsung genius and i am glad to see his work represented. I am sure there was good flight data on the I-185 so sans the reliability issues she's probably pretty well modeled.

VW-IceFire
05-23-2004, 02:46 PM
The I-185 is a decent fighter but it haven't seen anything of it that makes me think that its some super fighter...even in the 1942 realm. There are better planes to fly with better handling or speed or firepower...

Its an interesting plane and I want to fly it a bit more to get to know its quirks but its just not anything really special that I can see.

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maxim26
05-23-2004, 02:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ZG77_Nagual:
mig3u saw action - as did the I-185 - frontline trials. so really these are not 'what if's' like the 109z. Polikarpov is my fav vvs ww2 designer - absolutely and unsung genius and i am glad to see his work represented. I am sure there was good flight data on the I-185 so sans the reliability issues she's probably pretty well modeled.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutly agree. Policarpov I-185 is not a fantasy aircruft but the real thing which saw the action during WW2. The characteristics of the aircruft are well documanted so the statements thet there is no info go build the FM from are faulse. I-185 has a full right to be in IL2FB.

TooCooL34
05-23-2004, 07:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IL2-chuter:
"Mustang K" a "wonder aircraft" ???? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

A fifty pound lighter prop/governor combo than "B,C,D" which made the aft cg problem worse. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Now a Spit XIV . . . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"I fly only Full Real in Il2 Forgotten Battles." -Mark Donohue<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Popup question : Who is Mark Donohue? WWII pilot or is it just you?

Anyway, just include i-185 in 43 or 44 server. I't right and it solves the problem. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Istreliteli
05-23-2004, 08:36 PM
Please post pics? I dont have AEP... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Ya sizhu i smotru chuzhoya neba iz chuzhoya okna, i ne vidyem ne odnoi znakom iz zvezdiy,ya hodil po vsyem dorogo iz tuda i suda, a vernusya i ne smog, razgredyet sledi, no isli yest karmane pachka sigaret nachat vsye ne tak uzh plocha na syevodnachniy dyen-Victor Tsoi, Kino (Gruppa Krovi)