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Xnomad
07-09-2004, 12:31 PM
I know I have said this a few times but I never started a thread with the subject. As there won't be too many patches left could we please have the 20mm nose cannon option for the G-10 and G-14? In fact did the G-14 ever come with a MK 108 nose cannon in real life as I haven't seen any reports that it did?

EDIT
For those who don't read threads to the end I have pasted in my latest reply below which can be found on page 3 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
---
After some online flying last night I must say that I'm happy going after western planes with a MK 108 but I would still prefer the 20mm against Yak's and La's.

Why?

Well because basically the Yak and La pilots have a nice rear view and so bouncing them is often difficult as they are ready for you. In addition the Yaks turn a lot more, so the angle of deflection usually is much higher in a dogfight and using the MK 108 here is very tricky.

When fighting against P-51's, Spit IX's, P-47's and P-38's you have a better chance of bouncing these guys, even the ones with mirrors, as many guys don't use them for fps reasons. Also most of the Western late war planes are energy fighters so the angle of deflection won't often be as extreme as with a Yak.

So basically we need the 20 mm option against the Soviet aircraft even though these planes soak up a lot of 30mm too but at least with 20mm I have a better chance at hitting them.

----

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

[This message was edited by Xnomad on Mon August 16 2004 at 07:56 AM.]

Xnomad
07-09-2004, 12:31 PM
I know I have said this a few times but I never started a thread with the subject. As there won't be too many patches left could we please have the 20mm nose cannon option for the G-10 and G-14? In fact did the G-14 ever come with a MK 108 nose cannon in real life as I haven't seen any reports that it did?

EDIT
For those who don't read threads to the end I have pasted in my latest reply below which can be found on page 3 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
---
After some online flying last night I must say that I'm happy going after western planes with a MK 108 but I would still prefer the 20mm against Yak's and La's.

Why?

Well because basically the Yak and La pilots have a nice rear view and so bouncing them is often difficult as they are ready for you. In addition the Yaks turn a lot more, so the angle of deflection usually is much higher in a dogfight and using the MK 108 here is very tricky.

When fighting against P-51's, Spit IX's, P-47's and P-38's you have a better chance of bouncing these guys, even the ones with mirrors, as many guys don't use them for fps reasons. Also most of the Western late war planes are energy fighters so the angle of deflection won't often be as extreme as with a Yak.

So basically we need the 20 mm option against the Soviet aircraft even though these planes soak up a lot of 30mm too but at least with 20mm I have a better chance at hitting them.

----

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

[This message was edited by Xnomad on Mon August 16 2004 at 07:56 AM.]

jagdmailer
07-09-2004, 12:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Xnomad:
I know I have said this a few times but I never started a thread with the subject. As there won't be too many patches left could we please have the 20mm nose cannon option for the G-10 and G-14? In fact did the G-14 ever come with a MK 108 nose cannon in real life as I haven't seen any reports that it did?

Now that I no longer have broadband I play a lot of single player and I would like it if my fellow AI pilots would leave some targets for me to shoot down too however, with the MK 108 they blow away the opposition so quickly that I have very few targets to shoot at http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Plus I like the G-10 even though it's speed is similar to the G-6 A/S it has a better climb at normal power settings. I would just like to fly this plane the way a lot of pilots did with a 20mm MG 151 cannon in the nose and I'm sure it wouldn't take the development team that long to implement as the balistics for MG 151 and the option to switch nose armament is already in the game.

Of course online I would take the MK 108 all the time as it's a good guarantee that your kill won't be stolen and great for the B&Z attack but I'm stuck with single player or mediocre 56k multiplayer with frequent time-outs so how about it? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

[This message was edited by Xnomad on Fri July 09 2004 at 11:39 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. I think it was mentioned before in this forum that we have a "Hungarian built" Bf 109G-14 variant in the sim, which were all built with Mk 108 30mm. The MG 151/20 motor kanone for G-10 & G-14 would definately be nice and needed.

Also, do not forget:

1942 Bf 109F-4 w/ full boost @ 1.42 ATA
1943 Bf 109G-2 w/ full boost @ 1.42 ATA
1943 Bf 109G-6/U2 w/ original GM-1 nitrous-oxide boost system
1944 Bf 109G-6/U2 w/ "Field Mod" GM-1 system converted for MW-50 boost use.
1945 Bf 109G-10 w/ DB605DCM @ 2000hp at take-off & 1800hp at rated altitude
1945 Bf 109G-14 w/DB605ASCM @ 2000hp at take-off & 1800hp at rated altitude
1945 Bf 109K-4 w/DB605DCM @ 2000hp at take-off & 1800hp at rated altitude

Cheers,

JagdMailer

faustnik
07-09-2004, 01:15 PM
Jagdmailer,

Where do you find reference material for DBs at those ATA and HP ratings?

(I'm not questioning you, just looking for that type of source material.)

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jagdmailer
07-09-2004, 01:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Xnomad:
I know I have said this a few times but I never started a thread with the subject. As there won't be too many patches left could we please have the 20mm nose cannon option for the G-10 and G-14? In fact did the G-14 ever come with a MK 108 nose cannon in real life as I haven't seen any reports that it did?

Now that I no longer have broadband I play a lot of single player and I would like it if my fellow AI pilots would leave some targets for me to shoot down too however, with the MK 108 they blow away the opposition so quickly that I have very few targets to shoot at http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Plus I like the G-10 even though it's speed is similar to the G-6 A/S it has a better climb at normal power settings. I would just like to fly this plane the way a lot of pilots did with a 20mm MG 151 cannon in the nose and I'm sure it wouldn't take the development team that long to implement as the balistics for MG 151 and the option to switch nose armament is already in the game.

Of course online I would take the MK 108 all the time as it's a good guarantee that your kill won't be stolen and great for the B&Z attack but I'm stuck with single player or mediocre 56k multiplayer with frequent time-outs so how about it? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

[This message was edited by Xnomad on Fri July 09 2004 at 11:39 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also missing:

- SD1000
- PC1000
- PC1400
- SD1700
- SC2500
- panzerblitz I & II rockets for Fw 190F-8 & F-9

Jagd

JG54_Lukas
07-09-2004, 03:00 PM
Just adding my support for this request as well. It's kind of strange why these two 109s have always been modeled this way. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Kurfurst__
07-09-2004, 03:17 PM
Both G-10 and G-14 were produced with both MK 108 anbd MG 151/20, be sure of that. I think though the 20mm cannon was more common - about 1:2 ratio perhaps from what I have seen... I very much agree that we would need the basic versions to be added, which can be simply done. I believe the reason for the /U4 types being displayed is because they were made for the Hungarian map, and the Hun. AF received mostly 3cm versions of these planes.

Also I very much agree with jagdmailer`s point about some badly missing improved variants to represent the increasing engine powers over the years.

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"One day a Tiger Royal got within 150 yards of my tanks and knocked me out. Five of our tanks opened up on him at ranges of 200 to 600 yards and got 5 or 6 hits on the front of the Tiger. They all just glanced off and the Tiger backed off and got away. If we had a tank like that Tiger, we would all be home today."
- Sgt. Clyde D. Brunson, US Army, Tank Commander, February 1945

jagdmailer
07-09-2004, 03:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Jagdmailer,

Where do you find reference material for DBs at those ATA and HP ratings?

(I'm not questioning you, just looking for that type of source material.)

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My sources are: Mercedes-Benz AG, Archives, Stuttgart, Germany

The DB605DCM & DB605ASCM had exactly the same rated performance at 0M (2000hp) and rated altitude (1800hp@ 4900m) except the DB605ASCM had slightly better climbing output at sea level, as well as a slightly higher cruise output at both sea level and rated altitude.

Mercedes lists the DB605DCM (as well as DB605DBM) as 1944 engines, and the DB605ASCM (as well as the DB605ASBM) as a 1945 engine.

Of note, the DB605AS/DB605ASM fitted to the Bf 109G-6/AS in early/mid 1944 is not quite the same as the DB605ASBM/DB605ASCM of 1945. DB605ASBM was rated at 1850 hp (versus 1800hp for DB605ASM) at sea level, and 1600hp (versus 1500hp for DB605ASM) at around 6000m.

I will post a link to my online DB605 chart when I have a minute.

Cheers,

Jagd

faustnik
07-09-2004, 04:15 PM
Thank you Jagdmailer I would appreciate that link! You wouldn't happen to have one for the DB801 would you? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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jagdmailer
07-09-2004, 04:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Thank you Jagdmailer I would appreciate that link! You wouldn't happen to have one for the DB801 would you? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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Faustnik,

If you meant DB601, no I do not have one handy. I think I do have one for the DB603 engine (ie. as fitted to Do 217M, Me 410, Do 335, Ta 152C....) family though. Cannot promise as I will have to check again.

Cheers,

JagdMailer

faustnik
07-09-2004, 04:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Thank you Jagdmailer I would appreciate that link! You wouldn't happen to have one for the DB801 would you? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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Faustnik,

If you meant DB601, no I do not have one handy. I think I do have one for the DB603 engine (ie. as fitted to Do 217M, Me 410, Do 335, Ta 152C....) family though. Cannot promise as I will have to check again.

Cheers,

JagdMailer<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sry Jagdmailer, I meant BMW 801D. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif

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Gibbage1
07-09-2004, 04:53 PM
Why would anyone want the 20MM MG151/20 in a 109? They are so compleatly undermodeled you may as well take a Mk-108 if you wanna damage anything anyways http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Also the weight differance between the two guns are almost nil. So its not like you will turn any tighter or fly faster.

PraetorHonoris
07-09-2004, 05:06 PM
Ever thought of the muzzle flash? But in your P38 you don't care about that, I know.
As you stated already yourself the MK108 isn't a great weapon for shooting down fighters, but bombers.
Me109G10 were mostly produced to protect the Sturmgruppen against the escorts.

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tone DOWN these muzzle flashes

jagdmailer
07-09-2004, 05:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Why would anyone want the 20MM MG151/20 in a 109? They are so compleatly undermodeled you may as well take a Mk-108 if you wanna damage anything anyways http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Also the weight differance between the two guns are almost nil. So its not like you will turn any tighter or fly faster.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gib,

Even if the MG151/20 is undermodelled, it still seems to have a less droopy trajectory than the Mk 108 as it should, so I always use the MG151/20 when I have a choice/chance, even for chewing through B-17 boxes. I guess I am used aiming with it, unlike the Mk 108. I tend to prefer longer-barreled higher velocity weapons.

Not having a MG151/20 option on the G-10 & G-14 for a sim the caliber of Il-2/FB/AEP and that after 3+ years of development & patches is simply unacceptable.

On another note, I can hardly wait for Harti's Ta 152C-3 with 1 X Mk103 30mm in motor-kanone install, 2 X MG151/15 on the cowl and 2 X MG151/15 in the wing roots. That one should be a beast.

Cheers,

Jagd

Gibbage1
07-09-2004, 06:09 PM
True. Aiming with the 20MM is easier. I can take down a formation of B-17's in a Bf-110 with the 20MM gondola's without much more then a scratch. With Mk-108 you cant see anything and you need to get a lot closer.

As for the Ta-152 loadout, OUTCH!!! I wonder if it will fly like a pig though. Didnt a Do-335 also have a rather NASTY loadout of like 2 Mk-103's, 1 Mk-108 and 2 Mg151/15's?

jagdmailer
07-09-2004, 07:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
True. Aiming with the 20MM is easier. I can take down a formation of B-17's in a Bf-110 with the 20MM gondola's without much more then a scratch. With Mk-108 you cant see anything and you need to get a lot closer.

As for the Ta-152 loadout, OUTCH!!! I wonder if it will fly like a pig though. Didnt a Do-335 also have a rather NASTY loadout of like 2 Mk-103's, 1 Mk-108 and 2 Mg151/15's?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Ta 152C-1 will have 1 X Mk 108 30mm in motor-kanone + 2 X MG151/20 on the cowl + 2 X MG151/20 in the wing roots.

Not sure about the pig part. The turbo- supercharged DB603LAM did have about 2300+ hp and it's max loaded weight was 200lbs less than a dry (empty) P 47D-30, or 4000 lbs less than the loaded weight of the P 47D-30. We will have to see.....So, for the C-1, 1 X 30mm + 4 X 20mm cannons, about same engine power than P-47D, but about 33 % (4000lbs) less weight loaded, you do the math......sure there are other factors, but I think it should be a beast.

Jagd

p1ngu666
07-09-2004, 07:45 PM
and we cant even get a p47M to go against ta152C http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

oh, and id like to have option for 20mm on latewar 109 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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JG69_Koenig
07-09-2004, 11:36 PM
The MG151/20 is undermodeled ?
Oh I get it, try installing the 2.01 patch, it helps ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Bump for more MG151/20 goodness in G10 and G14 in the next patch.

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LLv34_Flanker
07-10-2004, 12:25 AM
S!

I agree with ppl that we should get more variations to the loadouts, but I would take it a bit further. As for now the weapons configuration screen is VERY stiff and only gives some pre-set options. Let's take another approach...read on!

First, the loadouts historically available for each plane in the game is nearly 100% known by Oleg & Team, also the available hardpoints etc. on the planes. So the thought is that why not have a config much like in Falcon 4.0 for example where the player can customize the plane. For example leaving out the outer wing cannons on FW190A-series could be done and the bomb rack would NOT appear there as it does now. Many FW190's flew with outer cannons removed without the rack.

Now think of this on all the planes. Would give total freedom to the player to use different loadouts. Of course the more advanced options could include limitations of the ordnance, concerning availability so U can't use Panzerblitz in 1940 or so for example. I am sure U got the idea! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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jagdmailer
07-12-2004, 10:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Xnomad:
I know I have said this a few times but I never started a thread with the subject. As there won't be too many patches left could we please have the 20mm nose cannon option for the G-10 and G-14? In fact did the G-14 ever come with a MK 108 nose cannon in real life as I haven't seen any reports that it did?

Now that I no longer have broadband I play a lot of single player and I would like it if my fellow AI pilots would leave some targets for me to shoot down too however, with the MK 108 they blow away the opposition so quickly that I have very few targets to shoot at http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Plus I like the G-10 even though it's speed is similar to the G-6 A/S it has a better climb at normal power settings. I would just like to fly this plane the way a lot of pilots did with a 20mm MG 151 cannon in the nose and I'm sure it wouldn't take the development team that long to implement as the balistics for MG 151 and the option to switch nose armament is already in the game.

Of course online I would take the MK 108 all the time as it's a good guarantee that your kill won't be stolen and great for the B&Z attack but I'm stuck with single player or mediocre 56k multiplayer with frequent time-outs so how about it? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

[This message was edited by Xnomad on Fri July 09 2004 at 11:39 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bump for MG151/20 motor-kanone option for the Bf 109G-10 & G-14.

Cheers,

JagdMailer

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
07-12-2004, 01:18 PM
i secend that!

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PaulCJ
07-12-2004, 05:28 PM
BUMP, I never fly the G-10 and G-14 because I can't see what I'm shooting at. If the muzzle flashes are going to continue to be this huge (and I pray that they'll be fixed one of these days), I'd much rather have the 20mm option available instead of being stuck with the Mk 108.

invun
07-13-2004, 03:17 AM
I think MG151/20 should be Bf-109G-10 & 14's DEFAULT weapon and MK108 be an option. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

jurinko
07-13-2004, 04:04 AM
i asked that long time ago and Oleg told they didn´t wat to change it (20mm for for G-14) because it would need some changes in mission generator (hey Starshoy!!) and its files or should screw up existing running dynamic campaigns for users.. hmm, let´s screw their campaigns, who cares??

BUMP

---------------------
Letka_13/Liptow @ HL

Functio
07-13-2004, 09:39 AM
I agree that it should be an option. Compare it to the Bf110 being able to use the 3.7cm cannon - less of those saw actual service use than G-10s and (especially) G-14s with 20mm cannons.

PaulCJ
07-13-2004, 12:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by invun:
I think MG151/20 should be Bf-109G-10 & 14's DEFAULT weapon and MK108 be an option. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would definitely make my life easier.

JG54_Lukas
07-14-2004, 03:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jurinko:
i asked that long time ago and Oleg told they didn´t wat to change it (20mm for for G-14) because it would need some changes in mission generator (hey Starshoy!!) and its files or should screw up existing running dynamic campaigns for users.. hmm, let´s screw their campaigns, who cares??
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. After all, with the Hurricane getting bomb loadouts in this coming patch, wouldn't that possibly alter peoples' campaigns as well?

BUMP for the MG151/20! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

jagdmailer
07-19-2004, 10:34 AM
Bump!

Jagd

F16_Steinhoff
07-20-2004, 06:25 AM
Hi Oleg http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Me too. The lack of 20mm for these planes together with the cartoonish muzzleflashes is a real showstopper. All immersion built up is immideately killed when you pull the trigger http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. Therefore I have recycled my copy of FB. If you remedy these things I might consider buying it again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

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HeinzBar
07-20-2004, 07:06 AM
S!,
I'll give a bump to this also. I remember a long time ago requesting something like this be done to simulate the general loadout of most late 109s. Not only does having that option create a more historic and realistic accounting of LW loadouts, but it also allows coop builders the create more historic missions by limiting the elephant gun...hmm, I guess mission builders can't limit loadouts now that I think about it. Oh well, it would be nice if mission builders could limit loadouts http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I need my caffeine...can't think this morning.

HB

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jagdmailer
07-27-2004, 01:51 PM
Bump for MG151/20 motor-kanone option for Bf 109G-10 & Bf 109G-14.

Jagd

VOL_Hans
07-27-2004, 02:24 PM
BUMP! For this!

It's about time we get a 20mm option on those planes! I know that many times the reason for me to take a G-10 over a G-6/AS is just for more performance. The Mk-108 is sometimes a bigger problem then help...

The G-14 [basacally a G-6Late with MW-50] would also be sooo much better with a 20mm...It's even got the 20mm cockpit in it! Look at the cannon breach some time!

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

jagdmailer
07-30-2004, 11:44 AM
Bump for MG151/20 in late Gustavs

Jagd

carguy_
07-30-2004, 12:55 PM
bumpage

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JG5_UnKle
07-31-2004, 12:33 PM
Bump for the 151/20

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NN_EnigmuS
07-31-2004, 02:25 PM
bump

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VOL_Hans
08-01-2004, 07:40 PM
Bump for teh 20 Mike-Mike!

I want it... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

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foxhound31
08-02-2004, 05:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:

Didnt a Do-335 also have a rather NASTY loadout of like 2 Mk-103's, 1 Mk-108 and 2 Mg151/15's?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I think was termed the 'heavy armourment' or something, has 2 103's just outside the prop arc I think.

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NorrisMcWhirter
08-04-2004, 09:53 AM
Hi

Yep - bring on the 20mm, please.


Cheers,
Norris

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'Bugs? What bugs?'
'AAA steals online kills, crash landing if good landing but out of fuel, muzzle flashes, kill given for planes that have landed OK, AI steals offline kills, gauges not working, Spitfire never overheats, FW190 view, P63 damage model, weird collision modelling...'
'Yeah, but look on the bright side - at least the 0.50s are fixed!'
Moral: $$$ + whining = anything is possible

Xnomad
08-07-2004, 07:57 AM
Ok, I know it's naughty but I'm going to tip toe quietly up to my own thread and give it a little bump.

--------&gt; Bump!

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

jagdmailer
08-07-2004, 08:41 PM
It appears Oleg posted on the German boards that most Bf 109G-14/G-10 were built with Mk108 30mm motor-kanone so he will likely not bother adding MG151/20 to either in upcoming patche(s).....

That is just too bad..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Jagd

http://www.axiomdigital.com/jagd-db605-charts.jpg

http://www.axiomdigital.com/db605.htm

nicli
08-08-2004, 03:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
Yes. I think it was mentioned before in this forum that we have a "Hungarian built" Bf 109G-14 variant in the sim, which were all built with Mk 108 30mm. The MG 151/20 motor kanone for G-10 & G-14 would definately be nice and needed.

Also, do not forget:

1942 Bf 109F-4 w/ full boost @ 1.42 ATA
1943 Bf 109G-2 w/ full boost @ 1.42 ATA
1943 Bf 109G-6/U2 w/ original GM-1 nitrous-oxide boost system
1944 Bf 109G-6/U2 w/ "Field Mod" GM-1 system converted for MW-50 boost use.
1945 Bf 109G-10 w/ DB605DCM @ 2000hp at take-off & 1800hp at rated altitude
1945 Bf 109G-14 w/DB605ASCM @ 2000hp at take-off & 1800hp at rated altitude
1945 Bf 109K-4 w/DB605DCM @ 2000hp at take-off & 1800hp at rated altitude

Cheers,

JagdMailer<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yes, it would be nice to have those, particularly the G-6/U2s and G-14ASs, as I think they went into quite widespread service, and, at least for the G-6s, formed large parts of the LW's fighter force until mid-late 1944 and were largely involved in combat over Normandy, Germany, and the Eastern Front...

jagdmailer
08-08-2004, 10:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nicli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
Yes. I think it was mentioned before in this forum that we have a "Hungarian built" Bf 109G-14 variant in the sim, which were all built with Mk 108 30mm. The MG 151/20 motor kanone for G-10 & G-14 would definately be nice and needed.

Also, do not forget:

1942 Bf 109F-4 w/ full boost @ 1.42 ATA
1943 Bf 109G-2 w/ full boost @ 1.42 ATA
1943 Bf 109G-6/U2 w/ original GM-1 nitrous-oxide boost system
1944 Bf 109G-6/U2 w/ "Field Mod" GM-1 system converted for MW-50 boost use.
1945 Bf 109G-10 w/ DB605DCM @ 2000hp at take-off & 1800hp at rated altitude
1945 Bf 109G-14 w/DB605ASCM @ 2000hp at take-off & 1800hp at rated altitude
1945 Bf 109K-4 w/DB605DCM @ 2000hp at take-off & 1800hp at rated altitude

Cheers,

JagdMailer<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yes, it would be nice to have those, particularly the G-6/U2s and G-14ASs, as I think they went into quite widespread service, and, at least for the G-6s, formed large parts of the LW's fighter force until mid-late 1944 and were largely involved in combat over Normandy, Germany, and the Eastern Front...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, in the case of the G-6/U2, there was at least 105 made new at Erla from about november 1943. There was another batch made in summer 1944 which I do not have the number right in front me at this time, as well as 273 G-6/U2 rebuilt from damaged aircrafts or aircrafts going back to advanced repair center for rebuild. Total made is about 600.

Jagd

http://www.axiomdigital.com/jagd-db605-charts.jpg

http://www.axiomdigital.com/db605.htm

The_Ant
08-09-2004, 07:45 AM
from jagdmailer.

posted 07-08-04 19:41
It appears Oleg posted on the German boards that most Bf 109G-14/G-10 were built with Mk108 30mm motor-kanone so he will likely not bother adding MG151/20 to either in upcoming patche(s).....

That is just too bad.....


Typical 1c ,i love this game but from an programming point of view it sucks,ive flown flightsims for almost 17 yeares now,ive started with their Finest hour on amiga and later got a pc, i almost played every flight sim since then,during this time the games gets better and better untill it reaches il2/Fb, alot of other games had better Ai that dosent kill steal and make the ai fly good and shoot down enemy planes, the same with aircraft damage have flown a nice set of game with good damage in them.1c answers it cant be done we need a hell of a big cpu too manage that...the muzzle flash isue also,their answer we cant do that because its hard programed bullsh.t give us an on off button that will do it, and as said about the 20mm it will ruin peoples campaign LOL what silly lame excuse too not program it in,i think people would be happy if the 20mm would be in, i would gladly delete my campaign and start over again just to have the 20mm in a g10.

jagdmailer
08-09-2004, 09:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The_Ant:
from jagdmailer.

posted 07-08-04 19:41
It appears Oleg posted on the German boards that most Bf 109G-14/G-10 were built with Mk108 30mm motor-kanone so he will likely not bother adding MG151/20 to either in upcoming patche(s).....

That is just too bad.....


Typical 1c ,i love this game but from an programming point of view it sucks,ive flown flightsims for almost 17 yeares now,ive started with their Finest hour on amiga and later got a pc, i almost played every flight sim since then,during this time the games gets better and better untill it reaches il2/Fb, alot of other games had better Ai that dosent kill steal and make the ai fly good and shoot down enemy planes, the same with aircraft damage have flown a nice set of game with good damage in them.1c answers it cant be done we need a hell of a big cpu too manage that...the muzzle flash isue also,their answer we cant do that because its hard programed bullsh.t give us an on off button that will do it, and as said about the 20mm it will ruin peoples campaign LOL what silly lame excuse too not program it in,i think people would be happy if the 20mm would be in, i would gladly delete my campaign and start over again just to have the 20mm in a g10.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here is Oleg's response on that:

Statement:

- 20mm MG 151/20 as default in Bf 109 G-14 and G-10 (high priority !!!)

Oleg's response:

All Hungarian (for which was designed these aircraft in FB) had 30 mm MK108.

Also the greatest part had 30 mm instead of 20 mm of all production from Italy, Germany Czech and Hungary (G14).


Therefore, it appears that it won't get fixed.


Jagd

http://www.axiomdigital.com/jagd-db605-charts.jpg

http://www.axiomdigital.com/db605.htm

Carnage2681
08-09-2004, 01:24 PM
Whe need the MG 151/20 in late 109´s

Hartmann stays on his 109 with the 20mm and dont choose 108 30mm till the end of the war

Xnomad
08-09-2004, 03:31 PM
Awww come on Oleg http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif what's the big deal? It can't take that much work to change a loadout? If you aren't going to fix the muzzle flash can't you at least give some of us a 20mm option?

On late war servers you can't fly Bf 109's without an MK 108 unless the G-6 A/S is available.

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

Enofinu
08-10-2004, 04:05 PM
why somebody want to use peagun??

jagdmailer
08-10-2004, 04:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Enofinu:
why somebody want to us peagun??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mk108 is OK against B-17s. I have no use for it against fighters and fighter-bombers. Besides, the muzzle flash for that cannon is ridiculously overdone.

Jagd

http://www.axiomdigital.com/jagd-db605-charts.jpg

http://www.axiomdigital.com/db605.htm

Enofinu
08-10-2004, 04:38 PM
MK108 is only gun suitable for killing enemy fighters, you just have to learn its deflection http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif then you really can shoot accuratelly with it, i can shoot 10-30% accuratelly with it in online against fighters.
it bites much stronger than peagun 20mm, no need to spend half of your ammo on one lagg or LA. still 30mm lacks punch unfortunatelly.

jagdmailer
08-10-2004, 07:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Enofinu:
MK108 is only gun suitable for killing enemy fighters, you just have to learn its deflection http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif then you really can shoot accuratelly with it, i can shoot 10-30% accuratelly with it in online against fighters.
it bites much stronger than peagun 20mm, no need to spend half of your ammo on one lagg or LA. still 30mm lacks punch unfortunatelly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would rather have the 1 X MG151/20 + 2 X MG131 as default or at least as an option as it was historically.

Jagd

http://www.axiomdigital.com/jagd-db605-charts.jpg (http://www.axiomdigital.com/db605.htm)

http://www.axiomdigital.com/db605.htm

JG7_Rall
08-10-2004, 09:31 PM
It's not an issue of learning how to shoot it, its an issue of preferance. And I would much rather have the 20mm cannon, personally.

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r5388/fw190sig.jpg
"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!

karost
08-11-2004, 03:41 AM
I try to use MG 151/20 to play online for two years since IL2FB release, but I have to give up , because HE power inside 20 mm from MG 151/20 not same as I used to play IL2 sturmovik 1.2 .

Then I use MK108 and spent a lot of time for improve deflection shooting skill , I don't like MK 108 but this gun do his job good, just one pass at close range and no need to look back again.

May be my skill quality to use MG 151/20 is poor, may be I don't know how to use MG 151/20. I try to fix my skill every time when I play but DM did not fix (to right place.)

So if I have a default MG 151/20 mount to 109 G-10,and G-14 but DM did not fix so what make it difference , I still have to shoot target for three-four time to down the enemy plane but if he (opponent ) have a chance to shoot me, he just take one - two time to shoot me down.
If I use MK108 just one time only and no need to look back again.

S!

Red_Storm
08-11-2004, 06:00 AM
And you can easily shoot down La-7's or LaGG's with one second bursts, too. You just need to learn to aim (which doesn't take long when you fly German aircraft http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif).

---

steiner562
08-11-2004, 07:42 PM
Bump for MG151/20 FOR g10 and g14, my prefered ride is 109G6AS anyway , but I think these models should have the option also. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.bf109.com/gallery/grayeagle/gallgray01sm.jpg

carguy_
08-12-2004, 06:51 AM
bump

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

Xnomad
08-16-2004, 08:47 AM
After some online flying last night I must say that I'm happy going after western planes with a MK 108 but I would still prefer the 20mm against Yak's and La's.

Why?

Well because basically the Yak and La pilots have a nice rear view and so bouncing them is often difficult as they are ready for you. In addition the Yaks turn a lot more, so the angle of deflection usually is much higher in a dogfight and using the MK 108 here is very tricky.

When fighting against P-51's, Spit IX's, P-47's and P-38's you have a better chance of bouncing these guys, even the ones with mirrors, as many guys don't use them for fps reasons. Also most of the Western late war planes are energy fighters so the angle of deflection won't often be as extreme as with a Yak.

So basically we need the 20 mm option against the Soviet aircraft even though these planes soak up a lot of 30mm too but at least with 20mm I have a better chance at hitting them.

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg