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ValSteven
01-22-2004, 05:39 PM
Sorry but I can't believe Mr.Oleg did that HUGE mistake,really disapointed with that...
Every one who had a little few experiences about the Aircrafts will not accept that sound effects.
As a permissioned private pilot with 1000+ hours flight times,i can prove you guys one thing: when an aircraft with a 200hp's little
engine with a sound silenced Blast pipe and in a low RPM Entered range of 5 Kilometers around you,you can hear it VERY Clear.And you can estimated the direction and range indeed.
But now,in the FB V1.22,You can't hear some one use a 2000hp's powerful engine in 3000RPM(The propeller tip's speed nearly MECH.1 @~@!) coming into 1.5KM beside you..................
On the understanding that ****,all the aviation injunctions such as "Low altitude and High speed High RPM flight are forbidden near the civillan residence" to avoid the noises disturb or some **** like this were really bull****,huh?
As a matter of fact,i am VERY pleased About the Patch,for what? =======> I'm a 190 speeder
so i don't care someone can catch up with me;
And i have the Good Habit to check my 6 every 3
.sec so i can find anyone going after me.
But,i still expect my opponents have the chance brought by the "REALISTIC" game design,
we have the same opportunity,and i hope the FB is a FAIR GAME.

Salute! for Mr.Oleg and all the Bravery pilots(Both in the games and realism)
I/JG54_Steven

ValSteven
01-22-2004, 05:39 PM
Sorry but I can't believe Mr.Oleg did that HUGE mistake,really disapointed with that...
Every one who had a little few experiences about the Aircrafts will not accept that sound effects.
As a permissioned private pilot with 1000+ hours flight times,i can prove you guys one thing: when an aircraft with a 200hp's little
engine with a sound silenced Blast pipe and in a low RPM Entered range of 5 Kilometers around you,you can hear it VERY Clear.And you can estimated the direction and range indeed.
But now,in the FB V1.22,You can't hear some one use a 2000hp's powerful engine in 3000RPM(The propeller tip's speed nearly MECH.1 @~@!) coming into 1.5KM beside you..................
On the understanding that ****,all the aviation injunctions such as "Low altitude and High speed High RPM flight are forbidden near the civillan residence" to avoid the noises disturb or some **** like this were really bull****,huh?
As a matter of fact,i am VERY pleased About the Patch,for what? =======> I'm a 190 speeder
so i don't care someone can catch up with me;
And i have the Good Habit to check my 6 every 3
.sec so i can find anyone going after me.
But,i still expect my opponents have the chance brought by the "REALISTIC" game design,
we have the same opportunity,and i hope the FB is a FAIR GAME.

Salute! for Mr.Oleg and all the Bravery pilots(Both in the games and realism)
I/JG54_Steven

F19_Olli72
01-22-2004, 07:30 PM
Guess Ky√¬∂sti Karhila (who flew Hawk75s & 109s) mustve been deaf then?. From an interview on virtualpilots.fi:

"-Can you hear the engine of another plane if you are flying next to it?

-No, since your own engine is closer and its noise drowns that of the other one. But you can feel taking a hit, it is like "clack, clack". The holes then were the holes of the splinters of a heavy AAA shell. "

Im going to take his word for it anyway, Karhila flew throughout almost the whole war. So he must have at least some authority in that area dont you think?

Edit: oops forgot to link the source:
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/en/hist/WW2History-KyostiKarhilaInterview.html

WB_Outlaw
01-22-2004, 09:00 PM
As someone who has ridden in a B-17, I can tell you one thing: YOU CAN'T HEAR ^%$#, EVEN WHEN SOMEONE'S MOUTH IS 3 INCHES FROM YOUR EAR AND HE'S PRACTICALLY SCREAMING!

This was at the Houston, TX airshow in 1996. I joined the CAF at the Colonel level ($600 btw) so I got the ride. The were doing a pilot in command check-out flight for the current co-pilot. It was really strange as I was the only "rider" in the back, the other 3 were up front. There were a couple of crew members but they didn't even pay attention to me. I tried to ask one of them a few questions about what I could and where I could go but like I said, you couldn't hear anything. Finally we just agreed to quit trying. I wandered forward through the bomb bay but there was no room up front so I just wandered aft looking around. I crawled into the tail gunner position and had a seat. It was pretty comfortable and I had been looking around for about five minutes when all of a sudden I noticed the Gunfighters P-51 had nuzzled up REAL CLOSE on the starboard side. No more than 40 yards away! The pilot waved at me. I nearly plotzed. I never heard a thing, not even after noticing him and never saw where he came from. He then pulled forward for some scheduled photos from the starboard waist position.

Bottom line is if you're six to eight feet from a 2000 hp engine in an unpressurized cabin, you aren't going to hear ANYTHING going on outside your aircraft unless it's the sound of rounds hitting it. I have read a couple of accounts by pilots who said they heard enemy gunfire but I wonder if it was their brain playing tricks on them.

In case you're wondering, when I say I crawled into the tail gunner position, I mean CRAWLED. I bet it's not even four feet across back there and the tail wheel well sticks up just forward of the tail gunner seat. Only the aft 50% of the wheel well is metal. The forward part is just open to the air. Even with the wheel up I could have forced past it and just fallen out. At least back then I could have. It looked like there were some attachments for a piece of canvas or something but nothing was there. We did three or four circuits with a touch and go for each (except the last of course). As I was crawling forward over the wheel well we did a pretty steep turn, probably 30 degrees of bank. I had to just lie down next to the wheel well and wait until we rolled out b/c there was no way I was going to crawl forward in a pair of shorts, even under that fairly low G-load. Good thing they have an escape hatch aft of the wheel well. I was standing in the radio room as we landed and one of the crew guys just looked around and yelled "HANG ON". I grabbed the nearest solid piece of metal after noticing that the easiest thing in reach that looked like a good handhold was the control cables!!! At least I think he yelled, he could have just mouthed it.

-Outlaw

LEXX_Luthor
01-22-2004, 09:40 PM
ValSteven:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As a permissioned private pilot with 1000+ hours flight times,...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Great, a glider pilot. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif That could explain the super hearing.

__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

Slater_51st
01-22-2004, 10:50 PM
I cant hear crap even in just a 172 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

_51st_Slater at Hyperlobby
Oblt_A_Wolf at il2skins.com

TheGozr
01-23-2004, 12:19 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=486108461&p=2

-GOZR
"TheMotorheads" All for One and One for All (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/)

TheGozr
01-23-2004, 12:23 AM
Many time you can't hear BUT you feel the sound wave .. air plane are no execption. Period

Any of you felt bombs in real?

-GOZR
"TheMotorheads" All for One and One for All (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/)

SerpentBlade
01-23-2004, 05:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slater_51st:
I cant hear crap even in just a 172 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

_51st_Slater at Hyperlobby
Oblt_A_Wolf at il2skins.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I can. I spent most of my flying hours in 172s, and you surely can hear nearby planes. If you cant then you havent been paying attention.

One very common example is that you can hear other prop planes doing running ups when u taxi, even when they are very far away, and you can defintely hear planes taking off at the runway beside you.

I once encountered c-130 passing by when I flew in alaska, and u can hear that thing more than 1km away. Not loud, but definitely noticable. My engine was @ 2500rpm, and I still heard the c-130. I still remember the whoooshing sound I heard.

SeaFireLIV
01-23-2004, 06:19 AM
Dammit! Talk about confusing and contradictory! I see some people write that you couldn`t hear anything, then someone else pops up and says you could hear lots! It`s getting ridiculous.
How I wish I could have a real WWII pilot to ask.

I`m off to read up on more historical books on WWII flying and what could be heard. I might even start taking flying lessons. Listening to you guys, just confuses me!

SeaFireLIV...
Slowly mutating into a Hurricane Ordnance Whiner...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/littlelaff.jpg

Larry the LA5 soon realised the sound improvement in 1.22 was not so great....

SpinSpinSugar
01-23-2004, 06:53 AM
I agree with Serpentblades that you can hear other aircraft from a 172 but that's only a little lawnmower engine and it's pretty quiet during taxi. I think if you were sat behind a Merlin at full power things might be a little different! Don't recall any of the war memoirs I've read mentioning the sound of other aircraft. They certainly mention the sound of being hit by bullets.

Cheers, SSS

ShVAK
01-23-2004, 07:20 AM
Perhaps I could clear this up.

As a military pilot, having flown helicopters, single-engine and multi-engine prop, single and multi-engine jet and having done formation flying and/or mock aircombat manouvering in many of these airframes I'll say this:

Generally, you do not hear anything other than the noise generated by your own aircraft. While I have witnessed adjacent noise on the ground, my aircraft power was at idle. But I have never heard engine noise from my wingman, mock opponent or any other aircraft whist in flight!

You can feel the turbulence, sonic shock wave, vortices etc of another aircraft, but do not hear the sound.

Prop planes and helicopters tend to be noisier on the inside than most of the jets that I've flown. I've also flown in a Korean war vintage piston prop plane. I've also had stick time in a C-47. I doubt that a WWII fighter would be much different.

The post by WB_OUTLAW above is correct - as I too have been in a B-17.

[This message was edited by ShVAK on Fri January 23 2004 at 06:33 AM.]

IVJG51Swein
01-23-2004, 07:34 AM
The sound issue has been addressed. There are tons of interviews involving actual WW2 pilots who stated that there was absolutey no sound outside of the cockpit. BTW, a real life WW2 engine is a little more powerful then a 172. I doubt a 172 would have the armor either. That might muffle some sound.

SeaFireLIV
01-23-2004, 07:50 AM
Well, Shvak, your notes do help.

It does seem to me, using pure logic and intuition, that it would indeed be VERY hard to hear anything over a roaring WWII engine, easpecially when enclosed in the cockpit, let alone modern day stuff.

SeaFireLIV...
Slowly mutating into a Hurricane Ordnance Whiner...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Harris.jpg

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Fri January 23 2004 at 07:00 AM.]

tg190
01-24-2004, 09:41 AM
I was a crew chief for 10 years on C-130's. You can't hear the other guy screaming at you one foot away. Thank God for internal comms. Oh yea, we were escorted on several ocasions by F-15's and 16's in Theater of Ops (yugoslavia,Iraq) and you don't hear a thing outside of the aircraft. You just hope you have your IFF set correctly.

LEXX_Luthor
01-24-2004, 09:57 AM
From a Med P~38 pilot memoir, he could hear the detonation of German 100mm AA shell nearby, and that is in the thin air of 30,000+ feet altitude (!) where there may not be much sound--btw, that would be an interesting issue.

But a munition explosion is not an engine sound. Be Sure.

__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

Recon_609IAP
01-24-2004, 10:29 AM
"They certainly mention the sound of being hit by bullets."

The sound of bullets sir, or the shake and sound of damage being inflicted upon their aircraft?

Big difference imo

By the way: it's spelled 'stupid', not 'stupit'

S!
609IAP_Recon

http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg
Agnus Dei, Qui Tollis peccata mundi, Miserere nobis. Dona nobis pacem

Agamemnon22
01-24-2004, 02:30 PM
"As a permissioned private pilot with 1000+ hours flight times,i can prove you guys one thing: when an aircraft with a 200hp's little
engine with a sound silenced Blast pipe and in a low RPM Entered range of 5 Kilometers around you,you can hear it VERY Clear.And you can estimated the direction and range indeed.
But now,in the FB V1.22,You can't hear some one use a 2000hp's powerful engine in 3000RPM(The propeller tip's speed nearly MECH.1 @~@!) coming into 1.5KM beside you..................
"

Well, yes, but you're forgetting that in a fighter that "2000hp" engine is about 3 feet forward of your knees. It drows out all sound. ALL. Have you ever stood next to a car on a dyno? Even a 6 cylinder engine at high rpm will drown out most other sounds. I can only imagine what it's like sitting next to a high revving 12-16 cylinder engine + turbo/supercharger.

It's completely possible that you can hear other planes in a Cessna, I don't know for sure because the only time I flew there was noone around. But a Cessna has a very small engine + noise reduction. Fighter designers didn't particularly care if the population being protected couldn't hear the finer aspects of Mozart after NOT being bombed into oblivion.

SerpentBlade
01-24-2004, 03:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:

Well, yes, but you're forgetting that in a fighter that "2000hp" engine is about 3 feet forward of your knees. It drows out all sound. ALL. Have you ever stood next to a car on a dyno? Even a 6 cylinder engine at high rpm will drown out most other sounds. I can only imagine what it's like sitting next to a high revving 12-16 cylinder engine + turbo/supercharger.

It's completely possible that you can hear other planes in a Cessna, I don't know for sure because the only time I flew there was noone around. But a Cessna has a very small engine + noise reduction. Fighter designers didn't particularly care if the population being protected couldn't hear the finer aspects of Mozart after NOT being bombed into oblivion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since ValSteven cannot logon here I'll answer those that I can answer on behalf of him.

First of all Steven never flown a cessna, he's an aerobatic pilot who's flown CJ-6, Su-29, and Mig-21.

Secondly, if one can sit behind a 360hp engine and hear other similar small engines, why cant one sit behind 2000hp engine and hear other 2000hp engines? You guys all imagine that the engine sound could be so loud that it block out all other sounds, but its only a THEORY not REALITY, and even that THEORY is WRONG.

The sound of engine mainly comes from exhaust blasts, which transmits away from the pilot, so its actually much quieter in the cockpit than outside. (or how would you expect a pilot communicate via radio under his own engine noise???) If there is a nearby aircraft, its engine noise is transmitted towards you, and yes you CAN HEAR him, coz he might even sound louder than you own engine!

Secondly, lets talk about physics itself, maybe not everybody has heard real aircraft engine noise from close distance, but most know what music is right? Lots of instruments playing together, some louder than others, but would you hear only the loudest instrument but not the others? We all know we can hear everything, because sound wave would pass though each other, and your brain can tell the individual sounds.

Engine sound is a mix of sound waves of different pitch, when another aircraft come near you, your engine noise "blinded" certain frenquencies of his engine noise but not all, and you will notice a PITCH CHANGE, and your brain will interpreted as a different sound source and YOU WILL HEAR HIM, just like you can pick out individual instruments in a symphony!

So dont just assume http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Recon_609IAP
01-24-2004, 04:29 PM
was this some attempt at a scientific method, or do you just make this up as you go along?

I don't see much reality in your theory.

S!
609IAP_Recon

http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg
Agnus Dei, Qui Tollis peccata mundi, Miserere nobis. Dona nobis pacem

SerpentBlade
01-24-2004, 04:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Recon_609IAP:
was this some attempt at a scientific method, or do you just make this up as you go along?

I don't see much reality in your theory.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would not expect you to see it if you cant understand it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SeaFireLIV
01-24-2004, 04:59 PM
ummm... call me simple, but if someone plays REALLY LOUD HEAVY music in a room, I find that if I`m in the same room I can`t hear anything else until that loud sound is reduced or switched off. If a door hinge squeaks, or a girl with a high pitch voice shouts at me at the same time I still can`t hear them until the loud noise is reduced.

This is from reality.


SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/ijolly.jpg

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Sun January 25 2004 at 12:04 PM.]

LEXX_Luthor
01-24-2004, 05:05 PM
SerpentBlade:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>why cant one sit behind 2000hp engine and hear other 2000hp engines?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good point! We did not think of that, here, at the ubi.com.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>(or how would you expect a pilot communicate via radio under his own engine noise???)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Didn't the radio come directly into the ear? Earphones?

One account of P~51 pilot wrote he was fixated on his target, his wingman tried to yell at him but he didn't care he was so close to target, and then he felt and heard cannon shells in his plane. Never heard any planes but his own.

__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

TheGhostFiles
01-24-2004, 05:06 PM
Thanx for all of your input -

I should have explained it better.

Hearing the opponents plane pass on a "very close flyby" would be great, 25 yards or so.

I just watched a Galland interview, which he stated all you can hear is your engine.

Gp

LEXX_Luthor
01-24-2004, 05:14 PM
Yes, 25 yards, 20 meters maybe, yes very close you might hear something. Indeed, lacking in this thread is numbers quantifying range of hearing over your engine. Granted the original poster ValSteven hinted that you could hear over your engine another engine at 5 kilometers--but 5km is FB sonar sound. That's probably what put everybody on the war path ,here, at the ubi.com. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

SerpentBlade
01-24-2004, 05:56 PM
OK maybe a little clarification here, just talked to Steven.

What he said in his first post was regarding sound from in game ext. view. In game in ext. view you can barely hear 2000hp aircraft from 1.5km away, but in real life u can even hear a 200hp aircraft 5km away. He thinks its totally unrealistic. He did not mean in flight with full throttle engine u can hear 5km away.

BTW, Steven is a chinese living in Beijing. Lots of his family members are serving in PLAAF. Steven's not bluffing about his flying hours or the about MIG-21! (a J-7 to be more precise) He apologizes for the misunderstanding and his English.

SerpentBlade
01-24-2004, 06:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
ummm... call me simple, but if someone plays REALLY LOUD HEAVY music in a room. Then I find that if I`m in the same room I can`t hear anything else until that loud sound is reduced or switched off. If a door hinge squeaks, or a girl with a high pitch voice shouts at me. I still can`t hear them until the loud noise is reduced.

This is from reality.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep you are right, the human ear is most sesitive in differentiating sound in a certain volumn range, and above that range its difficult for brain to identify sounds.

Ur example and the other B-17 ride example tells just that, its not that ur ear cannot hear someone shouting at you, (ur ear drum would still beat because of that!) its actually the brain that cannot differentiate the sound from back ground noise over its threshold.

The function of pilot headset is not only transmitting radio chat directly into ear, it also reduce the volume of all sound from outside, and that actually make it easier for ears to tell what sound is what.

In my flying of the tiny 172 I have numerous encouter of other aircraft fly-bys, I can definitely hear another 172s 100-200m away in a head on pass. Once a MiG-15 (Bankstown airport in Sydney) flew passed me from behind and actually startled me coz it was quite loud. And as I said in my previous post I once heard a C-130 1km+ away in flight. (It had high pitch hissing sound from turbo-prop)

One more interesting thing to tell, if a pilot's not wearing headset he might not be able to "hear" another plane if both engines are very loud, but when he put them on he can http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Same reason as u cant hear a girl shouting in loud disco, but you can hear her whisper in a concert http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[This message was edited by SerpentBlade on Sat January 24 2004 at 05:58 PM.]

Menthol_moose
01-24-2004, 10:37 PM
Didnt some ww2 radios have throat microphones too ?

"This is my mustang, there are many like it but this one is mine ! "

WB_Outlaw
01-24-2004, 11:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SerpentBlade:
Secondly, if one can sit behind a 360hp engine and hear other similar small engines, why cant one sit behind 2000hp engine and hear other 2000hp engines? You guys all imagine that the engine sound could be so loud that it block out all other sounds, but its only a THEORY not REALITY, and even that THEORY is WRONG.

The sound of engine mainly comes from exhaust blasts, which transmits away from the pilot, so its actually much quieter in the cockpit than outside. (or how would you expect a pilot communicate via radio under his own engine noise???) If there is a nearby aircraft, its engine noise is transmitted towards you, and yes you CAN HEAR him, coz he might even sound louder than you own engine!

Secondly, lets talk about physics itself, maybe not everybody has heard real aircraft engine noise from close distance, but most know what music is right? Lots of instruments playing together, some louder than others, but would you hear only the loudest instrument but not the others? We all know we can hear everything, because sound wave would pass though each other, and your brain can tell the individual sounds.



So dont just assume http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhhhh, before you start throwing around THEORY and REALITY and who is WRONG, please get YOUR facts straight.

Sound waves do NOT pass through each other. Throw two rocks in a pool of water and the ripples interact and are affected by the others. They do not just "pass through each other". Sound waves behave in the same way as air is a fluid. Identical sound waves 180 degrees out of phase will cancel each other out completely. That's how active noise cancellation works.

As far as the exhaust stacks are concerned, have you even looked at an external view of any of the single engined fighters (excepting the P-39 of course) in the game? The stacks point almost straight back at the pilot! The thrust generated by the exhaust from a 2000hp engine can easily reach several hundred pounds and this adds to the prop thrust. I believe the actual number for a 109E is 400 lbs. of thrust but it's been a long time since my Aero. classes so don't quote me on it.

Unless you are calling me, and others that have posted here, liars, we aren't "imagining that the engine sound is so loud that it blocks out all other sounds", WE HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN THERE. How many warbirds have you flown in?

Regardless of your theories or what you think may be fact or science, it has been noted by those that have actually been in WW II warbirds that you can't hear anything outside. The use of headphones and throat microphones allowed radio comms, although even then it was difficult to understand. Even modern police radios take a bit of getting used to before you can understand everything.


-Outlaw.

[This message was edited by WB_Outlaw on Sat January 24 2004 at 10:39 PM.]

LEXX_Luthor
01-25-2004, 01:18 AM
SerpentBlade:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What he said in his first post was regarding sound from in game ext. view. In game in ext.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, he never said that.

End of Thread


__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

SerpentBlade
01-25-2004, 05:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
No, he never said that.

_End of Thread_

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can I rephrase that to "meant"? English is not my first language neither.

SerpentBlade
01-25-2004, 05:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WB_Outlaw:

Sound waves do NOT pass through each other. Throw two rocks in a pool of water and the ripples interact and are affected by the others. They do not just "pass through each other". Sound waves behave in the same way as air is a fluid. Identical sound waves 180 degrees out of phase will cancel each other out completely. That's how active noise cancellation works. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dont come here throw around things you dont understand alright? Sound waves do pass through each other. The phenomenom you mensioned is due to interference. It has nothing to do with this topic, and waves canceling each other would only occour at certain places relative to the sound source. And BTW, air is not a fluid. And sound wave in air does behave slightly different from waves in fluid in terms how particles vibrate.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As far as the exhaust stacks are concerned, have you even looked at an external view of any of the single engined fighters (excepting the P-39 of course) in the game? The stacks point almost straight back at the pilot! The thrust generated by the exhaust from a 2000hp engine can easily reach several hundred pounds and this adds to the prop thrust. I believe the actual number for a 109E is 400 lbs. of thrust but it's been a long time since my Aero. classes so don't quote me on it.

Unless you are calling me, and others that have posted here, liars, we aren't "imagining that the engine sound is so loud that it blocks out all other sounds", WE HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN THERE. How many warbirds have you flown in? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is the exhaust blast pointing staight towards pilot or at an angle away insulated by fuselage?
Now who's making up a theory here?

Is B-17 a 2000hp fighter then? Does its CABIN have the same condition of sound insulation as the COCKPIT of a 2000hp fighter? Have you piloted a 2000hp fighter? What you think of "been there" may still not be good enough.

[This message was edited by SerpentBlade on Sun January 25 2004 at 09:44 PM.]

I-JG300_Dahl
01-25-2004, 09:15 AM
I have flown in a CJ6 myself (Chinese two-seat trainer). We did formation flying with 2 others and at times, I had a spinning prop not 15-20 feet away and I do not recall ever making the distinction between his engine and the one I was in. The other guy was on the opposite side of the leader. Anyone that has flown in this aircraft can verify this, it is loud.

We also did ACM with 2 aircraft while the other sat back and watched. During all these aerobatics, while in a tail chase and being chased, at no time did I ever hear that other plane's engine. This was through all maneuvers. Sometimes we were real close during this "fight".

I think the sound is accurate myself, so well done gentlemen

WB_Outlaw
01-25-2004, 09:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SerpentBlade:

Dont come here throw around things you dont understand alright? Sound waves do pass through each other. The phenomenom you mensioned is called "interference". It has nothing to do with this topic, and interference would only occour at certain places relative to the sound source. And BTW, air is not a fluid. And sound wave in air does behave slightly different from waves in fluid in terms how particles vibrate.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here are some selections from my bookshelf you might want to look up...

Introduction to Aircraft Performance, Selection, and Design - Francis J. Hale
Theory of Flight - Richard Von Mises (Yes, THE Von Mises)
Fundamentals Of Physics - Halliday & Resnick
Introduction To Heat Transfer - Incropera & DeWitt (Very good textbook btw)
Fundamentals Of Aerodynamics - John P. Anderson
Introduction to Fluid Mechanics - Robert W. Fox & Alan T. McDonald


Here are the first few links of a google search for "air is a fluid"...

http://wings.avkids.com/Tennis/Book/fluid-01.html
http://www.coursework.info/i/18048.html
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/teacher_resources/air_fluid.html
http://www.snc.edu/educ/edh26/explorer/wrightbros/bernoulli.html
http://www.safetyline.wa.gov.au/institute/level2/course18/lecture58/l58_05.asp
http://www.aero.hq.nasa.gov/edu/airmore.html
http://home.nc.rr.com/enloephysics/enloephysics/Balloon/Page_1x.html

At the energy levels this discussion is covering water and air behave exactly the same way (since the air is not being compressed). The only significant difference is the density of the two which in this case, will change the speed of the sound. Note that by exact behavior I mean the equations of motion are the same for the air particles as for the water particles, not that the results will be equal.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SerpentBlade:
Is the exhaust blast pointing staight towards pilot or at an angle away insulated by fuselage?
Now who's making up a theory here?

Is B-17 a 2000hp fighter then? Does its CABIN have the same condition of sound insulation as the COCKPIT of a 2000hp fighter? Have you piloted a 2000hp fighter? What you think of "been there" may still not be good enough.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I said "...almost straight back...". Unless those stacks are Bose engineered wave guides, the fact that it's pointing 20-35 degrees outboard is not going to make much difference. Put it this way, would you allow me to stand, relative to you, at the position of the exhaust stacks on a P-51 and fire a flame thrower in the same direction the stacks are pointed?

Sound insulation? In the cockpit? On a percentage scale I bet that at least 99% of that would be the headphones.

-Outlaw.

HomeboyWu
01-25-2004, 09:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SerpentBlade:
Dont come here throw around things you dont understand alright? Sound waves do pass through each other. The phenomenom you mensioned is called "interference". It has nothing to do with this topic, and interference would only occour at certain places relative to the sound source. And BTW, air is not a fluid. And sound wave in air does behave slightly different from waves in fluid in terms how particles vibrate.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dont come here throw around things you dont understand alright?

Interference occurs everywhere the waves meet, not only "certain" places relative to the sound source.

And BTW, air is a fluid, as Outlaw said.

Col.Kurtz
01-25-2004, 10:09 AM
Big Thanks to Oleg!

The Sound with the new Patch 1.22 is really outstanding and all i wished in the Past!

Now the tactics rules,with carefull flying even bad planes can now be flown with great success if the Pilot flys smart.
Also the FMs seems very accurat now.

In my option the best patch ever!

LEXX_Luthor
01-25-2004, 05:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SerpentBlade:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
No, he never said that.

_End of Thread_

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can I rephrase that to "meant"? English is not my first language neither.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, and my apologies. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Val meant external view.

So, this thread is about external view sound only. This is good.

Just wondering...how does FB deal with sound during offline missions, with *no* player in any cockpit, but the gamer watching AI aircraft from external view?

-----

Just a thought:: Can selecting external veiw and getting "realistic" sound from external view be a Cheat in the onwhine servers? By mousing away from your plane, your plane should (theoretically) decrease in sound level. Indeed, you could mouse so another plane is closer to the external viewpoint and so that plane is louder than the onwhine player plane.

This is not worth Oleg's time modding over the FB.

__________________
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Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

Agamemnon22
01-26-2004, 04:50 PM
Well, I'm no 1C programmer, but it seems like all they changed was some constant which modifies the falloff of sound level relative to distance to camera. Since all views (external, incockpit, whatever) are cameras, I'd expect the same effect across the board. Just speculating, but I do know how these things work, so I'm not talking from my arse.

Diese_ist_shais
01-26-2004, 06:00 PM
I love flying the IL-2 Field Mod against online players.

BEFORE the 1.22 patch, the take-off behavior of the IL-2 was unrealistic because I could easily lift off the ground in less than 5 seconds.

AFTER the 1.22 patch, the take off behavior now feels a whole lot better and realistic.

I don't have problems with the sound either. The only time I had sound problems was when the sound settings of my sound card needed slight adjustments.

And the engine sound looks fine to me. I never saw any of these WW2 fighters in real life [well, just a few. but still...] so I won't comment on the engine sounds.

IVJG51Swein
01-26-2004, 06:05 PM
Olli72, great post. I have never been able to hear another aircraft while in flight. I sure couldn't hear the aircraft in formation that was taking the picture of me. There is an example for you.
http://images.snapfish.com/3398397523232%7Ffp46%3Dot%3E232%3A%3D6%3B%3A%3D437 %3DXROQDF%3E232346763%3A%3A54ot1lsi

SeaFireLIV
01-26-2004, 06:08 PM
Well, I`m decided. From books I`ve looked at, wise people`s experiences, Logic... You wouldn`t hear anything much.

Funny to see this thread continue so long. It almost makes you wonder if you what you perceive /hear/ see is the same as what everyone else thinks they percieve/hear/see..

Agh! Brain ache alert!

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Dark.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
01-26-2004, 08:07 PM
I may be wrong, but it was probably a good honest try at getting sonar sound back. The story kept changing, struggling, squirming, whenever it got boxed in. It was fun. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



__________________
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Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~ WUAF_Badsight

Tully__
01-27-2004, 03:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
Well, I'm no 1C programmer, but it seems like all they changed was some constant which modifies the falloff of sound level relative to distance to camera. Since all views (external, incockpit, whatever) are cameras, I'd expect the same effect across the board. Just speculating, but I do know how these things work, so I'm not talking from my arse.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If "Realistic occlusions" is enabled, physical barriers are also taken into account.

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Salut
Tully

ValSteven
01-27-2004, 10:55 AM
Ok,that's enough.............don't argue with that s---h---i---t any more.
It just my personal point of view.
May be my mistake,may be yours,who knows?who really care about it? It's too parochialism.
jeje~~~~~~~
But thanks to the forepassed live as a pilot(My permission of flight already been retracted last year,coz my sight getting worth)
,i got a lot of experiences from it,especially the sense,the SA.
May be i didn't really heard those planes near by me,May be just my feel,my sense told me that their are right there. i think all the real world pilot have that experiences,have that feel.
Even just a little few changes,or just something unormal,or some parts of the Sky suddenly became not like you were familiared.
One of my grandpa's good friend,and also one of my flight instructor (A 70+ years old man who joined in the PLAAF in 1950s,and he got a ROCAF P47N,a USAAF F4B,in a China made Mig17),he can show me the mid-alt turbulence in the clear sky,that's the sense of pilot,that's the feeling.
I'll take back my complain about the sound of the Patch V1.22,what i said just my personal point,and THX for your replies.
BTW,I'm not a aerobatic pilot as BB(Serpentblade) said,just a estate pilot.most of my flight hours spended in the CJ-6(china made Yak-18)and the Su-29,as for that Mig-21(china made F-7P).....................actualy just a ride :P