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TX-EcoDragon
08-05-2004, 05:37 PM
To those who fly the TX-OC3: Please reply to this poll topic if you would be so kind.


http://www.txsquadron.com/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=&TOPIC_ID=1726

this is in regard to icon settings/limitaitons.

S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
http://www.txsquadron.com

Stop by our OC3 (and now OC192)servers on HL at: 69.56.198.2

Member-Team Raven
http://www.waynehandley.com

Northern California Aerobatic Club
http://www.iac38.org/

First Slot Pilot Aircraft #4 of the Virtual Haute-Voltige Team
http://www.vhvt.com/

Learn to fly, learn aerobatics, learn to fly a tailwheel at LVK.
http://www.attitudeaviation.com/

http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/TX-EcoDragon/ravenvert.jpg

TX-EcoDragon
08-05-2004, 05:37 PM
To those who fly the TX-OC3: Please reply to this poll topic if you would be so kind.


http://www.txsquadron.com/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=&TOPIC_ID=1726

this is in regard to icon settings/limitaitons.

S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
http://www.txsquadron.com

Stop by our OC3 (and now OC192)servers on HL at: 69.56.198.2

Member-Team Raven
http://www.waynehandley.com

Northern California Aerobatic Club
http://www.iac38.org/

First Slot Pilot Aircraft #4 of the Virtual Haute-Voltige Team
http://www.vhvt.com/

Learn to fly, learn aerobatics, learn to fly a tailwheel at LVK.
http://www.attitudeaviation.com/

http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/TX-EcoDragon/ravenvert.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2004, 09:27 PM
I couldn't find a reply button at the poll, so I'll weigh in here...

The icons can be about any flavor you have there, and it's probably not going to be a deal killer; you just have to find the right balance between human vision simulation and arcade overinformation. I have no doubt you'll figure it out.

However, one thing you didn't poll on is external views. PLEASE get rid of them. It's not as bad as WonderWoman view, but nearly so.

I know this will eliminate the planes without cockpits, but that's just ONE reason why jettisoning the external views is a good idea. If the plane doesn't have a pit, we're not SUPPOSED to be flying them. You can find planes to fill the roles for every one of the novelty planes. The problems they cause (one plane's gigantic bombs cause server-wide lag and plane-dancing, and paradroppers kill the framerate in an even worse way). Just say no to all that dweebery.

TgD Thunderbolt56
08-05-2004, 09:36 PM
Too bad you can't enable externals on only specific maps and not on others. This would allow some cool bomber formation flying when they're available and eliminate it when the heavies aren't on the menu.

I voted for "Friendly @.5k , No enemy icons."

My .02c



Our FB server info: http://www.greatergreen.com/il2

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2004, 09:48 PM
Tbolt, you're operating under a huge misconception.

The idea that icons are OK for friendlies but not for enemy is just silly.

The fact is, the graphics system fails to reproduce human vision; so, it isn't that you can't see enemy planes well enough, it's that you can't see *anything* well enough.

I would agree that there can be a difference in icon distance between enemy and friendly, as this helps simulate friendly command control, communications, and the fact that you likely would have flown with your comrades before, even if the pilot is some guy you've never seen online before.

But, if you're going to go no icon for enemy, then go no icon for friendlies too. In that case, you should be equally "blind" to every plane.

TgD-Sammie
08-05-2004, 11:21 PM
I see what you're saying there Stiglr, but the point of limited friendly icons, and no enemy icons, is to allow the enemy to bounce without announcing their arrival. It also allows friendlies to form-up easier, and fly as a team. I agree with you that vision is limited, so why not compensate for that on the friendly side, and still retain suprise and uncertainty? In my opinion, that is the best of both worlds.

That's just my opinion though, and I doubt any two people will share the exact same feelings on this issue... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks,
Sammie
http://www.greatergreen.com

Indianer.
08-05-2004, 11:34 PM
Pls, pls, pls is there any chance you could get rid of the externals and AI planes.

Thanks

http://www.fighter-collection.com/film/img/dark_blue_world.jpg

"Wer auf die preussische Fahne schwort, hat nichts mehr, was ihm selber gehort"

Weather_Man
08-05-2004, 11:51 PM
I like it anywhere from from 1-3 km. The main thing I HATE when flying a server with large maps is farting around for 30 minutes without seeing a soul to shoot at. Icons (whatever range) and externals on helps to find the enemy, which is what I'm there for. I don't like chasing every little blip in the sky just to find that they're friendly (and sometimes too late. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ). With externals off, I won't fly there, ever. But, that's just me.

TX has the options about right as it is now, IMO. They don't cater to the extremes on either end of the difficulty scale, which is perfect. This is the setup that draws the most players, I believe. They've always tried to choose settings that appeal to the most people. The extremely fast and fat-piped server they rent is not cheap and takes up quite a bit of personal time to admin. Props to TX-Rahman, TX-Kingsnake and the rest for their effort.

http://banners.wunderground.com/banner/smalltemptr/language/www/US/TX/Dallas.gif

BS87
08-06-2004, 12:12 AM
I wish there was some way to Disable F6 and yet keep externals.

ZG77_Nagual
08-06-2004, 07:18 AM
I'd like to see no enemy icons - and 1 or 2k for friendlies. Otherwise I really like the settings on that server.

TgD Thunderbolt56
08-06-2004, 08:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>TgD-Sammie wrote:
but the point of limited friendly icons, and no enemy icons, is to allow the enemy to bounce without announcing their arrival. It also allows friendlies to form-up easier, and fly as a team. I agree with you that vision is limited, so why not compensate for that on the friendly side, and still retain suprise and uncertainty? In my opinion, that is the best of both worlds<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>ZG77_Nagual wrote:
I'd like to see no enemy icons - and 1 or 2k for friendlies. Otherwise I really like the settings on that server.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif



http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



Our FB server info: http://www.greatergreen.com/il2

TX Rahman
08-06-2004, 08:43 AM
I echo BS87's message. Just having the F6 on a server toggle would kill the "radar" and still enable fair play. (In my opinion) Externals enabled, F6 disabled.

Hey CrazyIvan...can you pass that request on to Oleg? Should be simple to implement on the programming side of things (I dunno...not a programmer here!)

Weather_man: Mucho thanks for the props Sir...miss you on comms and in the group. Don't forget our favorite Emu... TX-EcoDragon! Props go out to him as he is heading up more than half of the effort....he and TX-KingSnake have been working very hard on this stuff!

We're just glad that the server patch was released....it's all we've been waiting on, so thanks to Oleg and crew!

Regards and Salute,
TX-Rahman
http://www.txsquadron.com

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2004, 09:19 AM
Sammie, you're not thinking it through.

One: I bounce people cold, icon or not, all the time. People who are stupid and lazy and don't check six, don't see icons back there, either. They're simply not looking. Icons may occasionally spoil a bounce for someone who is looking, but the difference isn't that great.

Two: see my original point. The fact is, the graphic system is piss poor at replicating vision, and that's why we *need* icons. It has much less to do with friendly or enemy, and everything to do with seeing ANY plane in the first place. Especially when you're sitting on the perch with about 3km of altitude, and all the planes in the weeds can't be seen unless you blow all your smash and dive down hoping to spot something (of course, you finally notice when you're down at 50 meters: oh, look, six enemy!)

ZG77_Nagual
08-06-2004, 09:28 AM
Best thing about the TX server, regardless of settings, is it's a generally friendly group and we're all having a good time. For me it's been completely novel to start flying the game's namesake - the IL2 - and to focus on teamwork and mission objectives.

TgD-Sammie
08-06-2004, 12:28 PM
I've thought about it a lot Stiglr.. I've run a server for over 2 years now. I've gone through this over and over in my head during the servers run. I base my opinion with assumptions that a pilot is competent, and checks 6 fairly regularly. Under that assumption, if a high-speed bounce is being performed from 6 ocklock low (for example), and a pilot checks 6, there is a good chance he won't see the enemy, if the enemy is directly behind. With icons, that surprise is almost entirely nullified.

IMO, of course...

Thanks,
Sammie
http://www.greatergreen.com

gates123
08-06-2004, 02:13 PM
well said Sammie =)

http://www.fightingcolors.com/custompagestuff/b17visibility72.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2004, 02:14 PM
You assume competence? On DF servers? There's your first wrong assumption. Even during the real war, there were a lot of turkeys in the air. You'll find them in abundance on IL-2 servers, too.

It's my humble opinion that I'd rather have a good pilot see my icon bearing in on him (but I still have some advantage)...than to have him disappear into a tree canopy or into the water background while I'm looking dead at him, or not be able to spot him at all from an alt perch, when I'm doing careful thorough searches.

Also, if you do it right, there is ample opportunity to use the sun and the blind spots of a plane to *still* bounce a fairly careful pilot with icons present. I'm a stickler for SA and six checking, but occasionally I get bounced too.

TgD-Sammie
08-06-2004, 04:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
You assume competence? On DF servers? There's your first wrong assumption...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That depends on where you fly. There will always be exceptions, but I gear for more experienced pilots, and let the new players get up to speed with help from the veterans. But hey, to each their own. It's what makes the world go around http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

For the TX Server, if they have externals enabled, then I would probably go with icons on for both, since experienced external padlock users can spot anyone near them anyway.

Thanks,
Sammie
http://www.greatergreen.com

gates123
08-06-2004, 04:31 PM
I replaced f6 with gunpods on/off http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

http://www.fightingcolors.com/custompagestuff/b17visibility72.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?