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View Full Version : Biased Rants in ORR are hurting our sim



faustnik
03-10-2004, 10:37 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Oleg has recently returned to ORR and is answering our questions about FB. Many forum members have legitimate questions about the sim noting some problems with the FMs. Unfortunately, other members offer no legitimate questions, only rude rants accusing Oleg of bias and questioning his motives.

Posts directly attacking Oleg are completely counterproductive and will do nothing to solve what might be issues. What these types of posts do is divert attention away from legitimate questions.

As a case in point, the 190A4/SpitVb climb discussion currently in progress in ORR. A legitimate discussion about the relative climb rates between the two aircraft is being subverted by claims of bias aimed at Oleg.

This kind of behavior needs to stop if we want to have a resource like ORR actually contribute to the quality of FB.

Please consider this before posting:

- You might be wrong

- You can't learn anything until you open your mind

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faustnik
03-10-2004, 10:37 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Oleg has recently returned to ORR and is answering our questions about FB. Many forum members have legitimate questions about the sim noting some problems with the FMs. Unfortunately, other members offer no legitimate questions, only rude rants accusing Oleg of bias and questioning his motives.

Posts directly attacking Oleg are completely counterproductive and will do nothing to solve what might be issues. What these types of posts do is divert attention away from legitimate questions.

As a case in point, the 190A4/SpitVb climb discussion currently in progress in ORR. A legitimate discussion about the relative climb rates between the two aircraft is being subverted by claims of bias aimed at Oleg.

This kind of behavior needs to stop if we want to have a resource like ORR actually contribute to the quality of FB.

Please consider this before posting:

- You might be wrong

- You can't learn anything until you open your mind

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clint-ruin
03-10-2004, 10:44 AM
Well said.

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CHDT
03-10-2004, 10:46 AM
I do agree.

This sim is simply a masterpiece and it becomes better at each release!

Old_Canuck
03-10-2004, 10:49 AM
Simple solution to this:

In an ORR thread discussing FMs, delete posts "without predjudice" where source of data cannot be confirmed. This will eliminate irrelevant clutter and will drive the thread to a conclusion.

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

OJ_79
03-10-2004, 10:50 AM
Here here (or is it hear hear?!)

Tata, OJ

Capt._Tenneal
03-10-2004, 10:54 AM
I do agree too, but these people will show up like it or not, so I hope Oleg has thicker skin this time around. I tend to avoid these Oleg-bashing threads or ignore them altogether.

I'm surprised (but glad) that Oleg even came back to ORR in time to answer the AEP questions. That kind of respect given to fans by a developer is admirable. The only contribution I can give is to add my voice to those who appreciate the hard work he and his team has done to produce the product we have today, and hopefully it drowns out the negativity.

robban75
03-10-2004, 10:56 AM
Very well put Faust! I hope Oleg knows which posts to ignore! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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faustnik
03-10-2004, 10:58 AM
I forgot to add one:

- No matter how much you know, you don't know everything

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crazyivan1970
03-10-2004, 11:00 AM
Even simpler solution...make me a mod in there hehehe...ever heard of Ivan the Terrible? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

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Cossack_UA
03-10-2004, 11:04 AM
I hope it doesn't turn Oleg off visiting the forums. Have anyone seen a major person from development team communicating with customers other than IL 2 series? I havent.

faustnik
03-10-2004, 11:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Even simpler solution...make me a mod in there hehehe...ever heard of Ivan the Terrible? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll take your wing on that one Ivan, I'd like to be an ORR moderator too.

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BM357_Raven
03-10-2004, 11:16 AM
I agree. It's the simple practice of using imagination. Imagine what it would be like to be the game developer and receive the kind of comments people dish out. And it ain't caviar they're dishing!

Furthermore, the basic premise of any great religion or social philosophy is "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I think that perhaps this is supposed to be the primary glue of social cohesion; the thing that keeps us out of the dark, so-to-speak.

I think you earn respect through showing respect. You earn it from others and maybe, if you are a individual with integrity, you even somehow earn it from yourself...

Also, I believe that so much more of what a person believes and tries to convey in a message is *actually heard* by the other side, when the other side recognizes that that person has integrity. Then they might be persuaded to think of that person as less of a threat and more like a person with another who is simply trying to state their point of view.

I also beleive that behavior is contagious. Insults, I believe, spawn more communal discontent and rude behavior. Mature and respectful behaviour, is something that I think is also transferable. Perphaps not as quickly, but I believe it too can be contagious as well. Perhaps I am a little too melioristic on this note, but man..

Why go around attacking and transferring negativity through unbridled contraversy and personal assaults when you can express your ideas in a way that might actually persuade others to your point of view?

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FbusterMk3
03-10-2004, 11:32 AM
define melioristic.

Old_Canuck
03-10-2004, 11:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BM357_Raven:
....Why go around attacking and transferring negativity through unbridled contraversy and personal assaults when you can express your ideas in a way that might actually persuade others to your point of view?

....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed ... in a technical argument, facts and figures are needed. I believe the people who are continually ranting and raving have underlying problems that need to be addressed elsewhere.

Crazyivan1970 and faustnik, you've got my vote for mods. Is there such a thing as too many mods?

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

tenmmike
03-10-2004, 11:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Even simpler solution...make me a mod in there hehehe...ever heard of Ivan the Terrible? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>yep CI WILL MAKE IT STOP

http://www.2-60inf.com/2-60_crest.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

Old_Canuck
03-10-2004, 11:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FbusterMk3:
define melioristic.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>1 entry found for melioristic.
mel‚∑io‚∑rism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mly-rzm, ml--)
n.
The belief that improvement of society depends on human effort.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Latin melior, better; see mel-2 in Indo-European Roots + -ism.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
melio‚∑rist n.
melio‚∑ristic adj.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

TooCooL34
03-10-2004, 12:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Even simpler solution...make me a mod in there hehehe...ever heard of Ivan the Terrible? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ivan for Mod! Ivan for Mod! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif


=815=TooCooL34 in =815=Squad, South Korea

SeaFireLIV
03-10-2004, 12:31 PM
The thing that`s as sickining as the rude posts to Oleg is that only ONE set of people are now trying to affect Oleg`s decisions.

The whole European Community have yet to receive EAP and have not had a chance to voice their opinions.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/storm.jpg
Soon... Very soon....

sfbaytf
03-10-2004, 12:41 PM
Biased rants is a problem that has plagued the flight sim community for a long time. Many designers have moved on to other areas because of the combination of being flamed and low profit margins. Another area of contention is the arrogance of some people who play online vs those who prefer offline. The reality is that flight sims are generally not high volume sellers and like it or not those who play offline are helping to support those who play online by the fact they are purchasing the product. There are many other games to buy -RTS, strategy, first person shooter so many you have many choices.

TooCooL34
03-10-2004, 12:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sfbaytf:
Biased rants is a problem that has plagued the flight sim community for a long time. Many designers have moved on to other areas because of the combination of being flamed and low profit margins. Another area of contention is the arrogance of some people who play online vs those who prefer offline. The reality is that flight sims are generally not high volume sellers and like it or not those who play offline are helping to support those who play online by the fact they are purchasing the product. There are many other games to buy -RTS, strategy, first person shooter so many you have many choices.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhhh.. so, you're saying Ivan for mod? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

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sfbaytf
03-10-2004, 12:50 PM
Ivan for Mod? You lost me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TooCooL34:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sfbaytf:
Biased rants is a problem that has plagued the flight sim community for a long time. Many designers have moved on to other areas because of the combination of being flamed and low profit margins. Another area of contention is the arrogance of some people who play online vs those who prefer offline. The reality is that flight sims are generally not high volume sellers and like it or not those who play offline are helping to support those who play online by the fact they are purchasing the product. There are many other games to buy -RTS, strategy, first person shooter so many you have many choices.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhhh.. so, you're saying Ivan for mod? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

=815=TooCooL34 in =815=Squad, South Korea

=815= FB Dedicated Server is coming soon. (with AEP Dedicated Server)
100Mb IDC line, P4 2.8G server.
Full real but limited friendly icon, minimap path.
You can expect something, since I run the server myself. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

faustnik
03-10-2004, 12:53 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
The thing that`s as sickining as the rude posts to Oleg is that only ONE set of people are now trying to affect Oleg`s decisions.

The whole European Community have yet to receive EAP and have not had a chance to voice their opinions.
QUOTE]

Not quite sure what you mean here SeaFire. Do you feel that we should wait until everyone gets Aces until we ask questions?

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SeaFireLIV
03-10-2004, 01:01 PM
Well technically, Yes, though this I know is impossible. How can Oleg get a proper idea of what`s waht if he only hears the views of the few? Not all who have EAP.

Ok, so there are faults, like the ME163 won`t take off (this is understandable- basic obvious faults), but I`m more worried about bitter personal complaints, like AI is crap! And `so and sos` plane doesn`t turn how I think it should rant, etc, etc... Most of these big whines tend to only care about online play aswell and give NO consideration to Offline. Quite selfish.

This must be giving Oleg a very negative feel of how people are receiving EAP- Although it`s only mostly the US who have it. What about Europe? It`s also annoying seeing untested whines or negative knee jerk reactions to EAP before the rest of us have even received the Expansion.

Another reason to wait for a world-wide release.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/storm.jpg
Soon... Very soon....

faustnik
03-10-2004, 01:05 PM
World release, yes! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Waiting until everyone gets Aces to ask questions, no. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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GT182
03-10-2004, 01:05 PM
You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all the people all the time.

Like every other sim I've seen there are flaws and bugs the the developers can't forsee. They fix things as best they can and we have to live with it. FB is the best playable sim on the market today for folks like us that fly on or offline. We can't have everything perfect in FB no matter what. Oleg has done the best he can and no one on here could do any better than him. So why not lay off and let him do what he does best. He can't please everyone. And if he tried, there'd be people who would still b*tch.

We've got to let him work on things as he sees fit. If we'd have developed FB then we could b*tch about it, but we didn't. it seems there's always somebody that wants to control your own backyard and tell you what to do in it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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JR_Greenhorn
03-10-2004, 01:12 PM
I personally would like to see ORR moderated with an Iron Fist. Find devoted moderators (always the hardest part, I know), and give them the power to maintain decorum within the forum, as well as enforce rules and guidelines. Biased rabble from people with agendas (as opposed to costructive critism, supported arguments, feasible suggestions, etc.) should not be tolerated or condoned. If the mods could delete irrelevent threads and posts or move them here to General Discussion, I think the ambiance would improve in ORR. One would think that if that could be accomplished, Mr. Maddox himself would be much happier posting there. I think the community as a whole has a lot of respect for Mr. Maddox, and we should not tolerate the staus quo in ORR.

Snoop_Baron
03-10-2004, 01:16 PM
I totaly agree faustnik. I especialy can't stand all this "Russian bias" BS...

I'm very happy to see Oleg back in the ORR.

s!

:FI:Snoop Baron
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willyvic
03-10-2004, 03:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Well technically, Yes, though this I know is impossible. How can Oleg get a proper idea of what`s waht if he only hears the views of the few? Not all who have EAP.

Ok, so there are faults, like the ME163 won`t take off (this is understandable- basic obvious faults), but I`m more worried about bitter personal complaints, like AI is crap! And `so and sos` plane doesn`t turn how I think it should rant, etc, etc... Most of these big whines tend to only care about online play aswell and give NO consideration to Offline. Quite selfish.

This must be giving Oleg a very negative feel of how people are receiving EAP- Although it`s only mostly the US who have it. What about Europe? It`s also annoying seeing untested whines or negative knee jerk reactions to EAP before the rest of us have even received the Expansion.

Another reason to wait for a world-wide release.

SeaFireLIV...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


SeaFire,
I feel for your invidious position of having to wait for AEP. You obviously yearn to get your copy as soon as possible. You express your cravings even in signature. But those of us that do own a copy will not be silent waiting for the rest to obtain theirs. I know you do not really think that the designers and developers are going to make radical changes based on a minority input. I also believe that you are not of the honest mindset that the lack of manners by some will somehow taint the overall improvement process. I believe your problem is a case of the envy's. I would probably experience the same sort of feeling were I in your position. So I ask you, please, chill out bro. Multiple posts expressing the same feelings does nothing to alleviate your current crisis of mind.

Peace!

http://www.geocities.com/mompeepers/willyvic/mig3u.jpg

Chuck_Older
03-10-2004, 03:52 PM
Oleg's a big boy. He knows BS from constructive criticism. His English might not be perfect, but he's a smart guy and can understand the meaning of various posts and whether or not they are legitimate concerns, or childish whining. He laughed at that leet_haxxor guy last week.

Priceless http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif But anyway, Oleg's not going to stalk off in a huff. I would be willing to bet that just because you see "Oleg Maddox, vip" has posted, it doesn't mean it's Oleg posting. I'll bet several people, including but not exclusively Oleg, post under that Username.


But still, the general internet community member abuses the ability to interact with folks like Oleg, and should be forced to wear a branded letter "W" on their chests

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

crazyivan1970
03-10-2004, 04:09 PM
Hehe, i did apply for moderators position in ORR back in cartrix days, but he declined. Maybe because i am russian and in contact with Oleg all the time? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

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VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

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http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

arcadeace
03-10-2004, 04:23 PM
If you become Mod Ivan I think I'll participate in ORR http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

crazyivan1970
03-10-2004, 04:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arcadeace:
If you become Mod Ivan I think I'll participate in ORR http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Charos
03-10-2004, 04:38 PM
Totally Agree the ORR Should be Moderated to weed out the childish or abusive Posts.

I also think its sad that if the patch to fix bugs in AEP is out by the Time the Europeans actually get the Expansion Pack its not good for anyone at all.

There is a VAST Resource of Very dedicated and Knowlegable people in Europe who probably fly either LW or VVS aircraft exclusively and dont touch the American Birds.

To miss out on that vast resource looking for things to fix in AEP would be a terrible Loss.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Disclaimer : I am NOT European.

SeaFireLIV
03-10-2004, 04:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Charos:
I also think its sad that if the patch to fix bugs in AEP is out by the Time the Europeans actually get the Expansion Pack its not good for anyone at all.

There is a VAST Resource of Very dedicated and Knowlegable people in Europe who probably fly either LW or VVS aircraft exclusively and dont touch the American Birds.

To miss out on that vast resource looking for things to fix in AEP would be a terrible Loss.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Disclaimer : I am NOT European.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gifYou have said perfectly JUST what I`ve been trying to communicate. The patch changes will only reflect one release of AEP! Not everything (ie the European/ rest of world view of AEP)to provide Oleg a balanced judgement. Still I`m sure he`s aware of this... I hope.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/storm.jpg
Soon... Very soon....

RobertNighthawk
03-10-2004, 05:22 PM
Oleg is an artist and for his creation alone, deserves respect. That he is egalitarian and kind enough to be accessible at all to the general masses is a rarity. To even read that board takes time and a strong stomach. Some of the posts are just narcissistic demands. Instead, I would be spending that time flying (again thanks to Mr. Oleg and Team). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So in essence, what I am saying is
"Ivan for Moderator!"http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

TooCooL34
03-10-2004, 06:52 PM
Even Buddha would be offended by narcissistic BS in ORR. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1241.gif
Need some Mod. Think about why Oleg come and announce in SimHQ first and this place last.

-----------------

=815=TooCooL34 in =815=Squad, South Korea

=815= FB Dedicated Server is coming soon. (with AEP Dedicated Server)
100Mb IDC line, P4 2.8G server.
Full real but limited friendly icon, minimap path.
You can expect something, since I run the server myself. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bearcat99
03-10-2004, 08:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cossack_UA:
I hope it doesn't turn Oleg off visiting the forums. Have anyone seen a major person from development team communicating with customers other than IL 2 series? I havent.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree 1001%. In fact i think Ill do a little bumpage in there... One of the things that endeared me to this sim was seein Oleg actually answering posts in there.. That Russian bias BS is just that.. BS.

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adlabs6
03-10-2004, 09:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
Simple solution to this:

In an ORR thread discussing FMs, delete posts "without predjudice" where source of data cannot be confirmed. This will eliminate irrelevant clutter and will drive the thread to a conclusion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Take it a step farther and delete the posts that are fishing. There are forums that clearly outline what is not welcomed. Visited the LOMAC forums lately?

Example:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Let me make this clear IF YOU ASK FOR A CRACK YOU WILL GET BANNED - title says it all. This is not up for debate. ~Dayglow<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Slammin_
03-10-2004, 09:47 PM
This thread could go on for 20 pages and it won't make one bit of difference. We are, and have always been our own worst enemy. I used to blame it on the 'kids' but more often than not it is an 'adult' spewing out the childish insults, rants and personal attacks, because they can.

We are probably the smallest source of revenue for any game developer yet we are probably disproportionately the loudest, and I'd dare say the most rude. And even in this thread you see it, not as bad, but it's there. Simulaneous World Release? At who's expense? And if it arrived a day late in one country, you can bet there would be a child tossing a teddy, pouting, and letting all of us know how he feels.

Sum it up - if any developer decides that interacting with us is not worth the drama, this developer has my blessing. I don't think thick skin comes into play here. Nobody should be/feel forced to subject themselves to a negative environment that only we can create.

Is the answer more Moderators? Perhaps, but as has been said several times, the better answer would be more self moderation, but I don't see that happening at all.

BM357_Troll
03-10-2004, 11:36 PM
I am trying to write a meaningful little program. Compared to almost anything, it is and will be quite small. Each time that I sit down to advance my work, I am amazed at the enormity of IL2_FB. Every aircraft, every object, every map, every flight model, every damage profile, every moving part, every weapon, every explosion, every tracer, every gauge, etc. etc. etc. I have no time of day for any individual who disparages the work of others. To those who would do so, I have two points: 1. Probably no one is forcing them to play this game. 2. Unless they have written a better flight sim, they might as well hold their tongues. When they have demonstrated that their programming skills far exceed that of the team who developed this game, I will perhaps read their negative points. Until then, my hat's off to the IL2_FB development team.

Old_Canuck
03-11-2004, 12:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Charos:
...I also think its sad that if the patch to fix bugs in AEP is out by the Time the Europeans actually get the Expansion Pack its not good for anyone at all.

There is a VAST Resource of Very dedicated and Knowlegable people in Europe who probably fly either LW or VVS aircraft exclusively and dont touch the American Birds.

To miss out on that vast resource looking for things to fix in AEP would be a terrible Loss.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Disclaimer : I am NOT European.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
=======================================
Excellent point, Charos. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif In fact there's a lot of excellent points to read here and the positives far outnumber the negatives in this thread.

I hope Mr. Maddox sees enough of these positives to make him feel it's worthwhile because no great artist works for money alone. An artist needs to know that people appreciate his work and most of the posters here have made it clear that we do appreciate Oleg and Team.

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

[This message was edited by Old_Canuck on Wed March 10 2004 at 11:40 PM.]

[This message was edited by Old_Canuck on Wed March 10 2004 at 11:42 PM.]

03-11-2004, 12:37 AM
Oleg needs to learn to be angry!

Don't hide the rage inside you Oleg!

GR142-Pipper
03-11-2004, 01:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>... Most of these big whines tend to only care about online play aswell and give NO consideration to Offline. Quite selfish.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Help me understand how being on-line or off-line has any bearing whatsoever regarding aircraft performance issues.

GR142-Pipper

LEXX_Luthor
03-11-2004, 01:08 AM
I'll try. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

One major Whine is the LW simmers don't get "historical" dogfight results against VVS simmers in early WAR servers like 1941. But the VVS simmers are as skilled at flight sims as LW simmers, but the real life LW pilots were...

"ten times better" ~Oleg

As we all know, pilot skill is more important than plane. And LW tactics were superior. Now, I never tried a FB campaign so I don't know how well they use AI to model overall air force skill levels and historical tactics (ignored in the dogfight servers). I'm just an FMB junkie.

Okay, I did try one FB campaign, one mission, dumped out of it and never looked back. FMB is the only way to go but you have to be a hardcore flight sim Mission Editor hacker to get what you want out FMB. Its NOT user friendly like the ones from Flaker or (they say) LOMAC.

__________________
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"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
"I don't have the V2 or B25s, so I'm going to reinstall" ~Bearcat99
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

LEXX_Luthor
03-11-2004, 01:19 AM
FMB Guide ---&gt; http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/fmbguide/intro.htm

pourshot
03-11-2004, 02:50 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif Vote 1 for Crazyivan http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

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Ride It Like Ya Stole It

Bearcat99
03-11-2004, 05:22 AM
The thing a lot of these whiners forget is that this is not rel life...... its a sim. A very good one, but still a SIMULATION. So many have come to expect perfection..and they are so busy crying and complaining that they fail to appreciate the jewel we have. They forget that Oleg owes us NOTHING. We got what we paid for when we bought the sim. 1.0 was worth the money once the exploding P-40 bug was fixed, speculative FMs not withstanding. If some of these people who cry so much spent more time learning to fly thier plane of choice instead of making thirty and forty page threads about thier gripes they would probably fly thier planes a lot better.

With the AEP (I wont count BoE since I COULD have done that myself with the FMB if I had the time and skill)I have spent $80 for this sim as it is today. Just the software. Is it worth it? You betcha!! $80 for a sim of this calibre is resonable in my opinion.... You have guys that will drop $200 for a video card to fly this sim and yet they act like they are being ripped off with the $49..... actaully $19 now that they spent for the sim. I picked up FB on the day it released just like the AEP. I know in about 6 months the AEP will be going for @ $20 too..... I paid $80 for both..in 6 months they both will probably go for $30 if I get the gold..or $40 if bought seperately... did I get ripped off?? No way. These FMs and DMs are in a totally different realm as far as realism goes. There are none like it in an under $100 d
simulation. We are getting a GREAT deal.

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cartrix
03-25-2004, 03:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Hehe, i did apply for moderators position in ORR back in cartrix days, but he declined. Maybe because i am russian and in contact with Oleg all the time? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure there was a good reason http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
03-25-2004, 08:04 PM
Faustnik,

With all due respect, I think the poor modeling, the obvious Allied leaning to certain aspects of the game, all contribute more to "hurting the sim" than the comments, albeit heated, of those who point out the mistakes.

I resisted the idea of bias for a long time, but over the course of the sim's development and devolution (and yes I mean DEevolution) it's been pretty clear.

The claim of any kind of realism or attention to detail (outside of cockpit art) is now totally without merit. The flight model is a joke, the damage modeling suspect, the physics model from another planet, the ballistics only really done for the planes that stand to lose the most from it (other guns merely point directly where shot)...need I go on? Oh, yes, I do need to go on... any interest in history has been thrown to the wind; now whatever's popular is what's shoehorned into the sim.

There are many examples for each of these things I cite.

Of course, the mere mention of any of them, or any of the examples brings out the torch-bearing Oleg fanboys and the historically-ignorant masses who wouldn't know an in-theatre plane from a F-15. The frustration this engenders is what gets people to ranting and making claims of bias.

With every release, it gets harder and harder to defend.

clint-ruin
03-25-2004, 08:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:

With every release, it gets harder and harder to defend.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I liked it when you called the dirty 109 glass .. what was it ..

an "OUTRAGE".

I was smiling about that one for ages. Don't ever leave us, Stiglr.

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crazyivan1970
03-25-2004, 09:04 PM
Stiglr.
I`v always enjoyed flying with/against you... and i can hardly understand... where is this huge difference coming from... Stiglr at Hyperlobby and Stiglr here. Is there something outrageous happens when you open IE?

Another thing i don`t get... why are you still flying this sim if it`s THAT bad?

V!
Regards,

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arcadeace
03-25-2004, 09:28 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stiglr:
Of course, the mere mention of any of them, or any of the examples brings out the torch-bearing Oleg fanboys and the historically-ignorant masses who wouldn't know an in-theatre plane from a F-15. The frustration this engenders is what gets people to ranting and making claims of bias.
QUOTE]

Man is that self-reassuring http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif