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Sesheenku
01-19-2016, 03:41 AM
Let me start by saying I'll be 100% civil for the length of this thread so no need to be afraid.

With that out of the way...

Ubisoft, you've been enhancing Assassins Creed with many RPG features lately. Character and equipment customization, levels, skills, and the best, side content that isn't just a stupid collect 100 and you get to pat yourself on the back for wasting your time nonsense. By that I mean Paris stories, murder mysteries, and all that excellent, varied, meaningful side content you added in Unity.

Therefore I propose that you step it up a level. New Game Plus is something usually a bit more common in JRPG's.

I doubt you as devs don't know but New Game plus, hereafter referred to as NG+ for brevity is a feature that allows us once the main game is completed to start over but keep a lot of the things we collected. In a JRPG that might be levels, items, skills, equipment, money, etc. However there is another use for the feature. To add events, challenging optional content, and new things to do that can only be seen on NG+.

Imagine for example if the ultimate armor that is usually gotten in games was restricted to NG+ in future installments (And increased in its parameters to make it worth it) to get this armor let's say we had to do something akin to AC2's tombs except longer and with truly powerful enemies. Heck you could make it one long sequence of DNA I suppose. At the end we'd fight someone extremely powerful, we'd get the gear. Then that gear could open us up to take on even more challenging optional content which of course is something you would come up with.

That's just an example of course.

If the rumor is correct the next installment will be a complete revamp, I believe simply considering this feature will change your perspective on how you approach AC and could possibly elevate the series to a level of quality and popularity not yet seen.

I hope you'll consider this feature and the possibilities it offers both for our enjoyment and the enhancement of your game development abilities.

VestigialLlama4
01-19-2016, 07:46 AM
I am familiar with NG+ from Arkham Games and also from Mark of the Ninja and Zelda too. To be absolutely frank, I am amazed Ubisoft hasn't introduced this yet because it seems perfect to introduce in AC.

I would love Black Flag where I can use Rope Dart earlier in the game rather than in the 11th Hour, or the Blowpipe before it comes and AC1 where Altair's skills are maxed right from the start. And naturally I want harder enemies and harder levels from the get-go.

Sesheenku
01-19-2016, 08:06 AM
I am familiar with NG+ from Arkham Games and also from Mark of the Ninja and Zelda too. To be absolutely frank, I am amazed Ubisoft hasn't introduced this yet because it seems perfect to introduce in AC.

I would love Black Flag where I can use Rope Dart earlier in the game rather than in the 11th Hour, or the Blowpipe before it comes and AC1 where Altair's skills are maxed right from the start. And naturally I want harder enemies and harder levels from the get-go.

And that's just the beginning I'm sure. It has such great potential.

MikeFNY
01-19-2016, 08:48 AM
One idea that has been floating around lately and I agree with, especially if they really intend to make a trilogy next, is to pick up the main protagonist of the game when he's still a child, or a young man. I'm not entirely sure it would make sense to be all levelled up at the age of 13.

And Altair was stripped away of his skills for a reason and for a reason he got them back.

Also the option of replaying missions in a way helps to achieve what you're describing.

Having said that, I fully agree with you when you say that it makes little sense to chase a very powerful or unique armour that you get at the very end of the game and then never use it, such as Evie's Aegis outfit, which I believe we more or less all got it towards the end of the game.

I lost count of all the weapons and armours available in Syndicate yet in the end I only used 3-4 of them, the idea of getting a strong weapon after defeating a strong mission and use it throughout the rest of the game is something I would welcome with a big smile.

Sesheenku
01-19-2016, 09:05 AM
One idea that has been floating around lately and I agree with, especially if they really intend to make a trilogy next, is to pick up the main protagonist of the game when he's still a child, or a young man. I'm not entirely sure it would make sense to be all levelled up at the age of 13.

And Altair was stripped away of his skills for a reason and for a reason he got them back.

Also the option of replaying missions in a way helps to achieve what you're describing.

Having said that, I fully agree with you when you say that it makes little sense to chase a very powerful or unique armour that you get at the very end of the game and then never use it, such as Evie's Aegis outfit, which I believe we more or less all got it towards the end of the game.

I lost count of all the weapons and armours available in Syndicate yet in the end I only used 3-4 of them, the idea of getting a strong weapon after defeating a strong mission and use it throughout the rest of the game is something I would welcome with a big smile.

Indeed. In most games there's a really great weapon before the final boss but in games with NG+ there's usually some secret weapon that's even more powerful to take on content that makes even the final boss a small fry.

Sorrosyss
01-19-2016, 09:20 AM
Mmm, while I see the attraction I personally prefer the way it is set up now. I prefer to only play through the game once, but the optional objectives usually up the difficulty sufficiently for me without the need for extra difficulty levels.

As a completionist, I like to grab all the trophies etc, and I'd hate to miss out on 100%ing a title as my skill level cannot complete NG+++ etc. I find the difficulty level of the games just right as is.

MikeFNY
01-19-2016, 09:22 AM
Indeed. In most games there's a really great weapon before the final boss but in games with NG+ there's usually some secret weapon that's even more powerful to take on content that makes even the final boss a small fry.

I'm always on the fence in the "final boss" debate.

I understand your point of view, if my character is strong, very strong, then he should be strong enough to ease past the final boss. The problem is that the so-called final boss mission might not be satisfying enough.

But on the other hand, and since AC can be tackled in stealth mode, why should I have to enter combat against the final boss?

Ultimately I believe the best of both worlds would be just the way it was in Syndicate - but not Starrick of course - where you have the unique kill opportunity. There would be no need to go in conflict with the final boss if I decide to go after the unique kill opportunity but clearly, the unique kill opportunity spot should be very tough to reach and that's where a unique weapon and a unique piece of armour comes in handy.

The Syndicate ending with lasers flying all around, automatic character switching, repetitive sequences and so on was not satisfying at all, at least nothing compared to Dr. Elliotson's unique kill.

But yes, I definitely agree with you, give me a valid reason to chase a powerful weapon, make it difficult to reach and most importantly, give me a valid reason to use it.

Sesheenku
01-19-2016, 09:42 AM
Mmm, while I see the attraction I personally prefer the way it is set up now. I prefer to only play through the game once, but the optional objectives usually up the difficulty sufficiently for me without the need for extra difficulty levels.

As a completionist, I like to grab all the trophies etc, and I'd hate to miss out on 100%ing a title as my skill level cannot complete NG+++ etc. I find the difficulty level of the games just right as is.

You misunderstand.

Well I mean AC is the easiest game series in recent memory, I highly doubt even if they doubled the difficulty that it couldn't be beaten easily, that's not the point of NG+ it just happens that way in JRPG's cause they're usually hard.

It's about extra content, meaningful extras, the difficulty increase is just so it can match the new equipment you got.

You wouldn't want to have an OP sword and then have the extra content be so easy you can play it asleep.

Seriously though, there's hasn't been an AC yet where skill level has particularly mattered. I don't think you'd have to worry about increased difficulty.

Of course even past that you as a completionist would be able to treasure that trophy much more cause if it were difficult you'd have actually earned it.

I know seeing as those are typically the trophies I earn, now when it comes down to find 1000 of x object trophies, those dull little collection quests can go to an early grave as far as I'm concerned.

I remember I bought a fighting game a while back and was very proud to beat the boss on the hardest mode, I got an achievement for that but best of all I had made that final boss look a fool since I perfectly countered each of its attacks.

I didn't of course get EVERY trophy in that game cause in the next mode you die in one hit but the enemies have hard difficulty HP. I'm not THAT hardcore.


I'm always on the fence in the "final boss" debate.

I understand your point of view, if my character is strong, very strong, then he should be strong enough to ease past the final boss. The problem is that the so-called final boss mission might not be satisfying enough.

But on the other hand, and since AC can be tackled in stealth mode, why should I have to enter combat against the final boss?

Ultimately I believe the best of both worlds would be just the way it was in Syndicate - but not Starrick of course - where you have the unique kill opportunity. There would be no need to go in conflict with the final boss if I decide to go after the unique kill opportunity but clearly, the unique kill opportunity spot should be very tough to reach and that's where a unique weapon and a unique piece of armour comes in handy.

The Syndicate ending with lasers flying all around, automatic character switching, repetitive sequences and so on was not satisfying at all, at least nothing compared to Dr. Elliotson's unique kill.

But yes, I definitely agree with you, give me a valid reason to chase a powerful weapon, make it difficult to reach and most importantly, give me a valid reason to use it.

That's just it of course, I speak of NG+ in the context of JRPG's in which typically you fight bosses.

AC could do something different, they could put you in a ruin and have you face an enemy that has all your abilities and can instant kill you with air assassinations and such.

MikeFNY
01-19-2016, 09:58 AM
Seriously though, there's hasn't been an AC yet where skill level has particularly mattered.
Unity :)

Sesheenku
01-19-2016, 10:19 AM
Unity :)

I've played like 60 hours. I wouldn't say it's difficult tbh. It just encourages stealth or smoke bomb abuse.

It's only hard if you limit yourself to your main weapon in fights and constantly attract attention.

That said I still think the combat is the best the series has reached thus far.

VoldR
01-19-2016, 10:48 AM
I hear the next Deus Ex will have a NG+

What i like about this especially with stories with amnesia like SW: Knights of the old Republic

Is to play a version where he remembers everything. :D

Rioz22222
01-19-2016, 11:45 AM
You misunderstand.

Well I mean AC is the easiest game series in recent memory, I highly doubt even if they doubled the difficulty that it couldn't be beaten easily, that's not the point of NG+ it just happens that way in JRPG's cause they're usually hard.

It's about extra content, meaningful extras, the difficulty increase is just so it can match the new equipment you got.

You wouldn't want to have an OP sword and then have the extra content be so easy you can play it asleep.

Seriously though, there's hasn't been an AC yet where skill level has particularly mattered. I don't think you'd have to worry about increased difficulty.

really haven't you played Assassin's creed syndicate ? Skills and stuff you equip actually matter for example edward kenewy robes for jacob +10% kurki damage if i'm right


Of course even past that you as a completionist would be able to treasure that trophy much more cause if it were difficult you'd have actually earned it.
you know some people might rather easy gaming and not focusing or wasting time but just enjoying slashi



I know seeing as those are typically the trophies I earn, now when it comes down to find 1000 of x object trophies, those dull little collection quests can go to an early grave as far as I'm concerned.

I remember I bought a fighting game a while back and was very proud to beat the boss on the hardest mode, I got an achievement for that but best of all I had made that final boss look a fool since I perfectly countered each of its attacks.

I didn't of course get EVERY trophy in that game cause in the next mode you die in one hit but the enemies have hard difficulty HP. I'm not THAT hardcore.

. played alot of wicther lately meh ? I guess you want something like difficulty levels for ac series but I doubt ubisoft ever adds them


That's just it of course, I speak of NG+ in the context of JRPG's in which typically you fight bosses.

AC could do something different, they could put you in a ruin and have you face an enemy that has all your abilities and can instant kill you with air assassinations and such.
oh please ... AC unity last level where you got to fight with germanin and sword of eden was that too easy for you ? or defeating starrick the only problem is it becomes so easy whne you are at max stats AC series is not about hardcore gaming and note that AC series are basically not witcher series also we have seen how skills matter more in syndicate and how gear you equip matter or example edward's armor for jacob +10% kurki damage ...
at last I suggest to OP play wicther 3 if you want that much of RPG game

Sesheenku
01-19-2016, 09:47 PM
really haven't you played Assassin's creed syndicate ? Skills and stuff you equip actually matter for example edward kenewy robes for jacob +10% kurki damage if i'm right

Hardly made a difference. Every single fight in Syndicate can be won by mindlessly mashing the attack button. It's almost as easy as Brotherhood.


you know some people might rather easy gaming and not focusing or wasting time but just enjoying slashi
played alot of wicther lately meh ? I guess you want something like difficulty levels for ac series but I doubt ubisoft ever adds them

Not what I'm asking, that's only one kind of NG+. Not that it matters, if you like games ultra easy you still get the whole main story and you can ignore the NG+ content. That's IF they even decided to make that content harder, they probably wouldn't.

Just because you're afraid of an AC actually having a modicum of challenge doesn't mean everyone is.


oh please ... AC unity last level where you got to fight with germanin and sword of eden was that too easy for you ? or defeating starrick the only problem is it becomes so easy whne you are at max stats AC series is not about hardcore gaming and note that AC series are basically not witcher series also we have seen how skills matter more in syndicate and how gear you equip matter or example edward's armor for jacob +10% kurki damage ...
at last I suggest to OP play wicther 3 if you want that much of RPG game

I don't want to play Witcher 3 and yes the last fights in every game have been easy... Like I said the skills in Syndicate are just decoration because all you do is mash attack to win. They actually mattered in Unity.

As I said in the post, you must have skipped over it. NG+ means new content only accessible after beating the game once. Some games, some may make the extra content more difficult but it doesn't have to be more difficult.

Not that it matters, it serves ALL gamers if they make NG+ content harder, you don't have to do NG+ if you don't want to. Those of us who would like more challenge could take it up. This isn't about just me or just about you or just our desires. It's all the fans, all the gamers and I'm certain that some of them wouldn't mind some challenge because if they're like me, there hasn't been any in any of the games.


I hear the next Deus Ex will have a NG+

What i like about this especially with stories with amnesia like SW: Knights of the old Republic

Is to play a version where he remembers everything. http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20130918.419/images/smilies/biggrin.png

Exactly, there's a lot that could be done with this. You clearly get it, it's not just about difficulty or new equipment, it's about the extra story content we could get and the new perspectives.

pacmanate
01-19-2016, 09:52 PM
I am familiar with NG+ from Arkham Games and also from Mark of the Ninja and Zelda too. To be absolutely frank, I am amazed Ubisoft hasn't introduced this yet because it seems perfect to introduce in AC.

I would love Black Flag where I can use Rope Dart earlier in the game rather than in the 11th Hour, or the Blowpipe before it comes and AC1 where Altair's skills are maxed right from the start. And naturally I want harder enemies and harder levels from the get-go.

Thats just bad design on the developers part and was fixed in later games.

It doesnt belong in AC because the games are too easy. New game plus will only work if they stop making us overpowered from the getgo

cawatrooper9
01-19-2016, 10:01 PM
I can't really complain too much about adding new features, but I'd honestly rather just see varying difficulties first- after all, if they can do NG+, they can do that.

Also, if you want to play early missions with later gear, you technically already can.

Sesheenku
01-19-2016, 10:28 PM
I can't really complain too much about adding new features, but I'd honestly rather just see varying difficulties first- after all, if they can do NG+, they can do that.

Also, if you want to play early missions with later gear, you technically already can.

Right but that's not the whole point. This is a feature that could potentially force the developers to think outside their box, it's the perfect time too since they're planning a full revamp.

NG+ Is a chance to collect things you missed, discover new things, and in most games gain access to content you wouldn't have been strong enough to complete before but now you've had a chance to collect new equipment and get stronger.

There's no reason they can't add NG+ and modes. They could do it like Lightning returns, make equipment upgradeable in NG+ only and make hard mode unlock after a normal playtrhough.

Being able to upgrade your weapons makes you stronger and you could tackle some extra content they put in.

I say this because modes would just be the first step, I want more reason then just to play a harder version.

BananaBlighter
01-19-2016, 11:13 PM
Right but that's not the whole point. This is a feature that could potentially force the developers to think outside their box, it's the perfect time too since they're planning a full revamp.

NG+ Is a chance to collect things you missed, discover new things, and in most games gain access to content you wouldn't have been strong enough to complete before but now you've had a chance to collect new equipment and get stronger.

There's no reason they can't add NG+ and modes. They could do it like Lightning returns, make equipment upgradeable in NG+ only and make hard mode unlock after a normal playtrhough.

Being able to upgrade your weapons makes you stronger and you could tackle some extra content they put in.

I say this because modes would just be the first step, I want more reason then just to play a harder version.

Wait, I'm so confused :confused:. So we play the game again but as if we were more OP? Does the difficulty increase the second time round, or is it hard from the get go and hence forcing us to play again in order to complete content that would've been too challenging otherwise. I mean, 'collect things you missed' doesn't have to be done by replaying the game, nor does 'collect new equipment and get stronger'.

From what I understand, I think this would've actually worked really well with something like AC1. After we've synced through Altair's story, we can then replay with all his gear via 'Animus hacks'. In AC1, before each assassination there were 6 missions to collect intel in preparation, though it was only necesary to complete 2. If they'd been made challenging (ok, so I know that eavesdropping can't really be made challenging) then we'd only have access to all 6 (and hence extra intel about the target) the 2nd time we play.

cawatrooper9
01-19-2016, 11:23 PM
Right but that's not the whole point. This is a feature that could potentially force the developers to think outside their box, it's the perfect time too since they're planning a full revamp.

NG+ Is a chance to collect things you missed, discover new things, and in most games gain access to content you wouldn't have been strong enough to complete before but now you've had a chance to collect new equipment and get stronger.

There's no reason they can't add NG+ and modes. They could do it like Lightning returns, make equipment upgradeable in NG+ only and make hard mode unlock after a normal playtrhough.

Being able to upgrade your weapons makes you stronger and you could tackle some extra content they put in.

I say this because modes would just be the first step, I want more reason then just to play a harder version.

Innovation is always good, of course- I just personally don't think this would be a valuable direction for the series to go in. NG+ worked so well in the Arkham games because Batman had a ton of gadgets to use on his environment. Gadgets in AC are typically used for combat or human manipulation. The rope launcher was decent, in my opinion, but it didn't really allow you to reach new places necessarily, just to get to places faster.

Plus, the people who wouldn't really be interested in NG+ would have to deal with the undoubtable bloat that comes with it to an already bloated series of games. I can't tell you how many times on my playthrough of Arkham Asylum that I tried puzzling out a Riddler Trophy or other puzzle collectible, only to eventually conclude that I could not reach it with my current gear set. Having players unable to get items on their first playthrough is really going to make people mad, especially the AC crowd with their multi-game OCD conditioning of getting countless collectibles. Look how well it was received with the mobile app and companion chests in Unity.

Again, it's great to see new ideas floating around, but this one gets a "nay" from me.

Sesheenku
01-19-2016, 11:23 PM
Wait, I'm so confused :confused:. So we play the game again but as if we were more OP? Does the difficulty increase the second time round, or is it hard from the get go and hence forcing us to play again in order to complete content that would've been too challenging otherwise. I mean, 'collect things you missed' doesn't have to be done by replaying the game, nor does 'collect new equipment and get stronger'.

From what I understand, I think this would've actually worked really well with something like AC1. After we've synced through Altair's story, we can then replay with all his gear via 'Animus hacks'. In AC1, before each assassination there were 6 missions to collect intel in preparation, though it was only necesary to complete 2. If they'd been made challenging (ok, so I know that eavesdropping can't really be made challenging) then we'd only have access to all 6 (and hence extra intel about the target) the 2nd time we play.

It's like I said it depends. The feature as described is standard in JRPG's but it needs some tweaking for AC, nonetheless as I've said I believe it will offer the developer a way to bust out of their box and create something truly fresh and enjoyable for us. Not to mention we could get around the single save file problem since we could replay without losing anything.

In any case let me try to clarify and make the pros of this feature known in a more concise statement.

The reason we would want this is.
1 -> Would cause the developers to rethink the way they develop the game in a beneficial way in terms of difficulty, story, equipment, skills, and more.
2 -> Will give us players a chance to have a use for powerful equipment and possibly experience new events and places on NG+ runs.
3-> Could provide a reason for the developers to add difficulty modes and rethink balance

There's no reason to refuse. At the heart of this is a tool that will benefit the developers brainstorming and one which will in future provide us with more content, better balance, and overall a better experience, NG+ is of course optional. Those who don't like it need only ignore the feature as it will not even be present in the first playthrough.

Ureh
01-19-2016, 11:50 PM
I doubt you as devs don't know but New Game plus, hereafter referred to as NG+ for brevity is a feature that allows us once the main game is completed to start over but keep a lot of the things we collected. In a JRPG that might be levels, items, skills, equipment, money, etc. However there is another use for the feature. To add events, challenging optional content, and new things to do that can only be seen on NG+.

It would be nice if we can do an actual restart with all of the equipment and upgrades. I'm not talking about going back and replaying a memory after we finished the main story, but a true NG+. This way we can relive the campaign without having to keep going through the dna menu and pressing replay everytime.

It sounds really promising if they can add some new gameplay features on NG+, every now and then you'll see people say, "Hey how come there's nothing to do at the end of the game? No missions, nothing?!" Instead of waiting for DLC let there be end-game content waiting for them as soon as they're ready. NG+ features such as but not limited to (let's use ACU as the example):

1: On NG+ we can continue upgrading Arno's skills. So now instead of firing 2 phantom blades before reloading we can fire 3 or even 4. Maybe even add new ranged upgrades to increase our ammo capacity. The same can be said for specific weapon classes: 1) long weapon's NG+ upgrade can be a sweep that can knock down up to 3 enemies in a 180 in front of you or 2) guillotine gun can now fire 2 shots before reloading 3) let's not forget the good ol' rifles and blunderbusses, now we can further upgrade the range of the rifles so that we can feel like a true sniper or increase the cone and piercing ability of the blunderbusses to feel like a shotgun surgeon or 4) staggering strike animation reduced by 0.25 seconds and/or instead of using using Arno's body to shove them he might be us a Rope Dart instead to disarm them or 5) Are you guys tired of only being able to upgrade the damage of your weapon? Want to make it better? NG+ gives you the option of further increasing the damage or the parry, etc. So if your favourite weapon was the Dull Cavalry Saber, it can become viable again without relying on ground executions, thanks to multiple upgrades. 6) Bomb crafting... well it probably won't be exactly like ACR. But what if we can slightly increase the range or duration with NG+.

2. Further increase the Cafe Theatre's income by completing more Crowd Events and/or side missions. Remember the Le Marais district and how there were some theatre troupes? What if we can complete missions for those guys? Then as a reward they can help promote our stage (afterwards you can hear them shouting in streets about Arno's theatre), or we can recruit new acts and talents to increase the frequency of performances. I saw that woman standing alone in her garden, singing to herself. She has a great voice right? Wouldn't it be awesome if we could ask her to join the theatre.

3. Outfits should get special traits or new abilities on NG+. Ex: Altair's outfit should suddenly make Arno forget how to swim, which means you'll have to be careful. Shay Cormac's outfit can unlock his special rifle which will replace the phantom blade and pistol. Ezio's outfit will grant a second hidden blade and the hidden gun. Edward's outfit will grant you double pistols and double one-handed weapons and allow you to fire much faster. You can also further upgrade these traits by completing certain stuff.


Imagine for example if the ultimate armor that is usually gotten in games was restricted to NG+ in future installments (And increased in its parameters to make it worth it) to get this armor let's say we had to do something akin to AC2's tombs except longer and with truly powerful enemies. Heck you could make it one long sequence of DNA I suppose. At the end we'd fight someone extremely powerful, we'd get the gear. Then that gear could open us up to take on even more challenging optional content which of course is something you would come up with.


Well, I wouldn't restrict the ultimate armor to just NG+, usually it's story related so if people want to play the game only once they shouldn't miss out. But I do think we should be allowed to upgrade its stats on NG+ by obtaining special materials in those tombs you mentioned. The Armor of Thomas de Carneillon is just an outfit at first right? In NG+ we can boost the stats to get a bit of an edge. Maybe the Armor can replace the phantom blade with throwing knives instead. You know how the Short Blade is missing from Altair's and Thomas' armor? That sheath is all alone... poor sheath... What if we can unlock that weapon after getting the outfit?

BananaBlighter
01-19-2016, 11:51 PM
It's like I said it depends. The feature as described is standard in JRPG's but it needs some tweaking for AC, nonetheless as I've said I believe it will offer the developer a way to bust out of their box and create something truly fresh and enjoyable for us. Not to mention we could get around the single save file problem since we could replay without losing anything.

In any case let me try to clarify and make the pros of this feature known in a more concise statement.

The reason we would want this is.
1 -> Would cause the developers to rethink the way they develop the game in a beneficial way in terms of difficulty, story, equipment, skills, and more.
2 -> Will give us players a chance to have a use for powerful equipment and possibly experience new events and places on NG+ runs.
3-> Could provide a reason for the developers to add difficulty modes and rethink balance

There's no reason to refuse. At the heart of this is a tool that will benefit the developers brainstorming and one which will in future provide us with more content, better balance, and overall a better experience, NG+ is of course optional. Those who don't like it need only ignore the feature as it will not even be present in the first playthrough.

So the 2nd time round, we have access to more content right? But I don't understand why this has to be restricted for a second playthrough. Just tack it on at the end of the main story when you're more able to face such a challenge.

Sometimes I wish I could replay without keeping my gear and skills. In a way I already do what you describe, in a less meaningful manner. When I replay each mission at the end of the game (for 100% sync), I'm doing so with better gear, hence allowing me to complete the optional objectives more effectively. In Syndicate I wish I could get rid of most skills, since all they provide are meaningless, game-ruining stat boosts (like 'first strike'). On the other hand, Unity's progression system was great (probably the only thing in which it greatly surpasses Syndicate IMO) and experiencing all the side content (which wasn't replayable) with my awesome but not OP set of gear (because Unity's difficulty is pretty well balanced throughout) again would be great.

VoldR
01-20-2016, 12:26 AM
really haven't you played Assassin's creed syndicate ? Skills and stuff you equip actually matter for example edward kenewy robes for jacob +10% kurki damage if i'm right

I don't like outfits unless it fit the story.
I haven't touch any outfits except the armour ezio gets in ACII, templar armour in ACIV. Other armour hunts, I ignored.

Ezios is part of synchronising so its part of the story and i wear it making sense for ezio to say the armor protected him.

Edward i wear it to show his pride and fall from grace before the assassin gave him back he's robes.

Also ACII is the only ac games i bothered buying new armour, not for protection but to show time is going by and it looks cool. :)

In Revelations, i don't bother. Kept he's rags from beginning till end.

Can't imagine why arno will where the nostrodomous armor other then just to collect.

In Syndicate I'll just used what i earn for free to show them changing clothes as time progress, can't think of a reason jacob would wear a top hat other then during formal parties... Is there one? Still sequence 3, lol

Sesheenku
01-20-2016, 01:13 AM
So the 2nd time round, we have access to more content right? But I don't understand why this has to be restricted for a second playthrough. Just tack it on at the end of the main story when you're more able to face such a challenge.

It's hard to explain if you've haven't played many games with NG+, usually the issue is after one playthrough you're simply not strong enough. Thus it's not just an excuse to play through again, it changes your goals in the game slightly and has you adjust your priorities. I realize these concepts are difficult to grasp since they're not concrete but I I've given enough ideas from other games and people seem to be taking them as my suggestions which isn't the case.

It really depends on the basic design of the game of course, in games with time limits like Persona, you obviously not only are able to experience extra content but you're able to do things you skipped over due to time constraints.

In games like Drakengard, it simply increases the difficulty to insane levels.

In most games it unlock several new features that enable you to tackle content that you would have simply been unable to do. Naturally this is usually tied to the story somehow.


Sometimes I wish I could replay without keeping my gear and skills. In a way I already do what you describe, in a less meaningful manner. When I replay each mission at the end of the game (for 100% sync), I'm doing so with better gear, hence allowing me to complete the optional objectives more effectively. In Syndicate I wish I could get rid of most skills, since all they provide are meaningless, game-ruining stat boosts (like 'first strike'). On the other hand, Unity's progression system was great (probably the only thing in which it greatly surpasses Syndicate IMO) and experiencing all the side content (which wasn't replayable) with my awesome but not OP set of gear (because Unity's difficulty is pretty well balanced throughout) again would be great.

Adding NG+ would force them to consider such issues. Right now they haven't much reason to do so. Balance is a lower priority on their mind.

What I'd like by bringing this to everyone's attention is not to merely focus on the actual features but how the devs thinking of how to implement NG+ can effect us the gamers, positively in the future.

Although that's not to say we shouldn't discuss possible features, although we'd have to speculate how they'll handle the next game which is rumored to be a "total remake"

Unfortunately it seems some are stuck on the features that I mentioned from other games which I stated only for example. What I ultimately wish to discuss if enough agree is how this can affect future games from the skeleton up to the finished product.

By skeleton I of course mean how this changes the fundamental basics of the game we've come to know and what ideas can influence these positively for the majority.

Then once we have some established ideas for that we should discuss full fledged ideas based on our admittedly speculatory skeleton.

Ugh... I apologize for the verbosity.

In summary I'd like us to discuss the possibilities that this feature affords future titles, a critical thinking session for video games of sorts.


It would be nice if we can do an actual restart with all of the equipment and upgrades. I'm not talking about going back and replaying a memory after we finished the main story, but a true NG+. This way we can relive the campaign without having to keep going through the dna menu and pressing replay everytime.

It sounds really promising if they can add some new gameplay features on NG+, every now and then you'll see people say, "Hey how come there's nothing to do at the end of the game? No missions, nothing?!" Instead of waiting for DLC let there be end-game content waiting for them as soon as they're ready. NG+ features such as but not limited to (let's use ACU as the example):

1: On NG+ we can continue upgrading Arno's skills. So now instead of firing 2 phantom blades before reloading we can fire 3 or even 4. Maybe even add new ranged upgrades to increase our ammo capacity. The same can be said for specific weapon classes: 1) long weapon's NG+ upgrade can be a sweep that can knock down up to 3 enemies in a 180 in front of you or 2) guillotine gun can now fire 2 shots before reloading 3) let's not forget the good ol' rifles and blunderbusses, now we can further upgrade the range of the rifles so that we can feel like a true sniper or increase the cone and piercing ability of the blunderbusses to feel like a shotgun surgeon or 4) staggering strike animation reduced by 0.25 seconds and/or instead of using using Arno's body to shove them he might be us a Rope Dart instead to disarm them or 5) Are you guys tired of only being able to upgrade the damage of your weapon? Want to make it better? NG+ gives you the option of further increasing the damage or the parry, etc. So if your favourite weapon was the Dull Cavalry Saber, it can become viable again without relying on ground executions, thanks to multiple upgrades. 6) Bomb crafting... well it probably won't be exactly like ACR. But what if we can slightly increase the range or duration with NG+.

2. Further increase the Cafe Theatre's income by completing more Crowd Events and/or side missions. Remember the Le Marais district and how there were some theatre troupes? What if we can complete missions for those guys? Then as a reward they can help promote our stage (afterwards you can hear them shouting in streets about Arno's theatre), or we can recruit new acts and talents to increase the frequency of performances. I saw that woman standing alone in her garden, singing to herself. She has a great voice right? Wouldn't it be awesome if we could ask her to join the theatre.

3. Outfits should get special traits or new abilities on NG+. Ex: Altair's outfit should suddenly make Arno forget how to swim, which means you'll have to be careful. Shay Cormac's outfit can unlock his special rifle which will replace the phantom blade and pistol. Ezio's outfit will grant a second hidden blade and the hidden gun. Edward's outfit will grant you double pistols and double one-handed weapons and allow you to fire much faster. You can also further upgrade these traits by completing certain stuff.



Well, I wouldn't restrict the ultimate armor to just NG+, usually it's story related so if people want to play the game only once they shouldn't miss out. But I do think we should be allowed to upgrade its stats on NG+ by obtaining special materials in those tombs you mentioned. The Armor of Thomas de Carneillon is just an outfit at first right? In NG+ we can boost the stats to get a bit of an edge. Maybe the Armor can replace the phantom blade with throwing knives instead. You know how the Short Blade is missing from Altair's and Thomas' armor? That sheath is all alone... poor sheath... What if we can unlock that weapon after getting the outfit?

How rude of me to have not seen this well thought out post earlier. What you're talking about is a big part of Lightning Returns NG+ and it would indeed work extremely well in AC.

They're all excellent ideas and ideas that would force the devs to think up new content that is worthy of those ideas. They say our latest AC will be a total revamp, now is the time to suggest all the features we can. Surely we can think of something they may have skipped over or at least show support for something that the team considered but would otherwise decide against unless of course we the fans speak up.

Rioz22222
01-20-2016, 11:14 PM
Hardly made a difference. Every single fight in Syndicate can be won by mindlessly mashing the attack button. It's almost as easy as Brotherhood.



Not what I'm asking, that's only one kind of NG+. Not that it matters, if you like games ultra easy you still get the whole main story and you can ignore the NG+ content. That's IF they even decided to make that content harder, they probably wouldn't.

Just because you're afraid of an AC actually having a modicum of challenge doesn't mean everyone is.



I don't want to play Witcher 3 and yes the last fights in every game have been easy... Like I said the skills in Syndicate are just decoration because all you do is mash attack to win. They actually mattered in Unity.

As I said in the post, you must have skipped over it. NG+ means new content only accessible after beating the game once. Some games, some may make the extra content more difficult but it doesn't have to be more difficult.

Not that it matters, it serves ALL gamers if they make NG+ content harder, you don't have to do NG+ if you don't want to. Those of us who would like more challenge could take it up. This isn't about just me or just about you or just our desires. It's all the fans, all the gamers and I'm certain that some of them wouldn't mind some challenge because if they're like me, there hasn't been any in any of the games.



Exactly, there's a lot that could be done with this. You clearly get it, it's not just about difficulty or new equipment, it's about the extra story content we could get and the new perspectives.
You don't want to play witcher 3 ? Oh wow ... Not going to judge but if you think you are so expert in gaming and AC series are too easy for you why don't you go play witcher 3 ( best game ever made in history won 9 awards 10/10 rating every where ) on last difficulty 1 dead = game over (or CodBOIII where only 1 shot kills you ) many people here don't want HARDCORE gaming deal
with it son if series are too easy for you simply ignore them al tho all you said just don't make sense ... skills in syndicate actually matter or gear setup you can hardly kill a level 4 enemy while you are level 1 and NG+ just won't work for these series they are not RPG

Sesheenku
01-20-2016, 11:26 PM
You don't want to play witcher 3 ? Oh wow ... Not going to judge but if you think you are so expert in gaming and AC series are too easy for you why don't you go play witcher 3 ( best game ever made in history won 9 awards 10/10 rating every where ) on last difficulty 1 dead = game over (or CodBOIII where only 1 shot kills you ) many people here don't want HARDCORE gaming deal

-SIGH- Do you know what an OPINION is? The Witcher is not the best game ever made XD that's your opinion and it's worth nothing. I don't know if you've realized this simple truth yet but in this world people like different things and what's best to one is garbage to another. This is why I attacked you last time. Apparently it failed to teach you the lesson. I don't care what the Witcher is rated, I don't care what people think about the Witcher cause I don't care about the Witcher. Your opinion is not fact and those nonsensical ratings are garbage, Call of Duty consistently gets high marks and it's at BEST an average fps. (That last sentence is an opinion btw since you seem incapable of differentiating, the scores mean nothing because it has nothing to do with my own taste.)

I've played Devil May Cry's on Hell and Hell mode (You die in one hit enemies have high hp) I've beaten Ninja Gaiden's.

I don't need you to tell me what difficult is, especially when it seems your knowledge on video games is only just beginning to take place, I assume you're young and merely ignorant but it's no excuse to continue this behavior. Take the correction it will make you more respectable and show that you're more intelligent than the average child/teen whatever you are.


with it son if series are too easy for you simply ignore them al tho all you said just don't make sense ... skills in syndicate actually matter or gear setup you can hardly kill a level 4 enemy while you are level 1 and NG+ just won't work for these series they are not RPG

I don't care that it's easy, and I don't care that you may not want challenge especially when it's 100% optional, IF they added difficult NG+ content just don't do it if you don't like anything too hard. Simple isn't it? That way people get to enjoy the feature and you can ignore it. Best for everyone not just for you.

Skills and equipment are rpg features so it doesn't matter. Action games are adding more rpg features. If you don't like it fine but your justification is poor and I don't wish to continue hearing about what some people don't want when NG+ would be 100% optional, don't like it? Don't do it, the rest of us still could.

Indeed you're welcome to express your opinion but now you're trying to persuade me that you're right and you simply aren't dear.

Also the skills in Syndicate don't matter cause the combat is easy, it's a waste of time.You won't change my opinion on the matter, the proof is in the pudding, the game can be shredded up by you with or without skills, that's how pointless they are.

Rioz22222
01-20-2016, 11:39 PM
-SIGH- Do you know what an OPINION is? The Witcher is not the best game ever made XD that's your opinion and it's worth nothing. I don't know if you've realized this simple truth yet but in this world people like different things and what's best to one is garbage to another. This is why I attacked you last time. Apparently it failed to teach you the lesson. I don't care what the Witcher is rated, I don't care what people think about the Witcher cause I don't care about the Witcher. Your opinion is not fact and those nonsensical ratings are garbage, Call of Duty consistently gets high marks and it's at BEST an average fps. (That last sentence is an opinion btw since you seem incapable of differentiating, the scores mean nothing because it has nothing to do with my own taste.)
no offense but then you are an odd one ( 1 in every million who dislike witcher ) I just suggested it to you because it has all you need and want to be applied on AC

I've played Devil May Cry's on Hell and Hell mode (You die in one hit enemies have high hp) I've beaten Ninja Gaiden's.
bravo ...

I don't need you to tell me what difficult is, especially when it seems your knowledge on video games is only just beginning to take place, I assume you're young and merely ignorant but it's no excuse to continue this behavior. Take the correction it will make you more respectable and show that you're more intelligent than the average child/teen whatever you are.

oh really ! I'm so sorry daddy !...


I don't care that it's easy, and I don't care that you may not want challenge especially when it's 100% optional, IF they added difficult NG+ content just don't do it if you don't like anything too hard. Simple isn't it? That way people get to enjoy the feature and you can ignore it. Best for everyone not just for you.

Skills and equipment are rpg features so it doesn't matter. Action games are adding more rpg features. If you don't like it fine but your justification is poor and I don't wish to continue hearing about what some people don't want when NG+ would be 100% optional, don't like it? Don't do it, the rest of us still could.

Indeed you're welcome to express your opinion but now you're trying to persuade me that you're right and you simply aren't dear.

Also the skills in Syndicate don't matter cause the combat is easy, it's a waste of time.You won't change my opinion on the matter, the proof is in the pudding, the game can be shredded up by you with or without skills, that's how pointless they are.
let's say you are right as you think you are always are but in my opinion such a thing is never going to be add so waste of words

Sesheenku
01-20-2016, 11:51 PM
no offense but then you are an odd one ( 1 in every million who dislike witcher ) I just suggested it to you because it has all you need and want to be applied on AC
bravo ...

Yeah well you need "odd" ones so this world doesn't become a dull grey blob of similarity. I have my reasons I assure you, from it's childish focus on sexual encounters to it's dull standard personality main character all the way to its clunky combat. (At least in Witcher 2 anyways)


oh really ! I'm so sorry daddy !...

-Pats head- Gooooooooooood boy.


let's say you are right as you think you are always are but in my opinion such a thing is never going to be add so waste of words

Yes and America thought we'd be under the foot of the British forever. Nothing changes with that infantile attitude. Now, if you have nothing of substance to add I'll be ignoring any further communication from you during this thread. I promised to be civil and I have but I simply can't resist poking fun at your hole filled arguments and illogical reasoning. So I'll end it before I can no longer resist the urge to do so again.

Rioz22222
01-21-2016, 12:05 AM
I'd say you have a bit of psycho problems ( no offense I meant in a different way ) with other humans keep ignoring people but you can't ignore the world so i'd suggest you live with that try to be more friendly next time but if it makes you feel better so keep your ignorance for now until you feel you can finally face the world and accept different thoughts about same things accept different opinions all these deferences without raging or always wanting all to be the way you are or agree on everything with you .

cawatrooper9
01-21-2016, 04:00 PM
I'm just gonna put this right here...

Let me start by saying I'll be 100% civil for the length of this thread so no need to be afraid.

That goes for everyone, of course. This topic really isn't worth fighting over.

That being said, I've thought a little more about NG+, and how it could be used in AC. I'm still pretty skeptical of it, but I guess I'm not entirely clear either. What would be the added challenge? Considering we'd have extra skills/gear/whatever the devs decide, would we just be playing through a much easier game on our second playthrough?

Then, if the devs did add variable difficulty levels that would function with NG+... well, the difficulty levels themselves would be a huge step forward. Not necessarily saying that they negate the need for NG+ (though my argument about collectibles still makes me kind of against it), but I feel that the gaming community as a whole would be much more appreciative of simply having the higher difficulty levels.

Once again, though, cheers for thinking a little outside of the box.

andreycvetov
01-21-2016, 06:54 PM
I support the idea of harder difficulties but I generally hate the idea on a difficulty that requires me to play the game to unlock it . If there is a harder one , I wanna just play on it on my first playthrough

Sesheenku
01-21-2016, 09:59 PM
I'm just gonna put this right here...

That goes for everyone, of course. This topic really isn't worth fighting over.

That being said, I've thought a little more about NG+, and how it could be used in AC. I'm still pretty skeptical of it, but I guess I'm not entirely clear either. What would be the added challenge? Considering we'd have extra skills/gear/whatever the devs decide, would we just be playing through a much easier game on our second playthrough?

Then, if the devs did add variable difficulty levels that would function with NG+... well, the difficulty levels themselves would be a huge step forward. Not necessarily saying that they negate the need for NG+ (though my argument about collectibles still makes me kind of against it), but I feel that the gaming community as a whole would be much more appreciative of simply having the higher difficulty levels.

Once again, though, cheers for thinking a little outside of the box.

Well the main game would definitely be easier, but you'd play it for the new content of course. If they did add difficulties on top of that it should be fine though.

And pay him no mind dear, look at the rest of his posts, he's perpetually angry and disagreeable. This being a fact not an insult.


I support the idea of harder difficulties but I generally hate the idea on a difficulty that requires me to play the game to unlock it . If there is a harder one , I wanna just play on it on my first playthrough

I'm not against the idea but I'd like to see both implemented either way. Whether difficulty is part of it or separate from it.

cawatrooper9
01-22-2016, 05:51 PM
Well the main game would definitely be easier, but you'd play it for the new content of course.

I guess I'm still not really clear on what you envision being new content. Off the top of my head, I can't really think of any examples in AC of new gear allowing you to reach new places, outside of the climb leap in AC2/ACB (which in almost all cases with few exceptions, like the rope launcher, was used more to speed up parkour rather than actually allowing reaching otherwise unreachable places) and the whip in ACL (which was rarely used at all).

I guess those types of things could be utilized more. Maybe I'm just not the type of gamer that would gel well with that, but I can't help but get the feeling that this type of thing would only antagonize AC gamers, who have otherwise been able to mostly access their loot upon finding it.

Sesheenku
01-22-2016, 11:53 PM
I guess I'm still not really clear on what you envision being new content. Off the top of my head, I can't really think of any examples in AC of new gear allowing you to reach new places, outside of the climb leap in AC2/ACB (which in almost all cases with few exceptions, like the rope launcher, was used more to speed up parkour rather than actually allowing reaching otherwise unreachable places) and the whip in ACL (which was rarely used at all).

I guess those types of things could be utilized more. Maybe I'm just not the type of gamer that would gel well with that, but I can't help but get the feeling that this type of thing would only antagonize AC gamers, who have otherwise been able to mostly access their loot upon finding it.

Well Unity locked a bunch of basic abilities behind skill points and most games have had the animus walls blocking certain areas at certain times too so it's not like they've always been 100% free.

Either way it's not like they're forced to restrict, maybe as Ureh said they could allow a standard version to be received at the start but then allow it to be powered up. Not like that will eliminate all complaints but honestly what addition doesn't have its fair share of complaints?

dxsxhxcx
01-23-2016, 12:23 AM
the only point I see in a NG+ feature in AC are (obviously) being able to play the game from the get go with all our gear/skills/etc from a previous playthrough and avoid going through the hasle of selecting the missions we would like to replay via pause menu. I'm not fond of the idea of (more) locked content behind it, I'm not the kind of person that keeps playing the game over and over and over again, I play it once and that's it (most part of the time I don't even play all the side missions avaialble since many of them become pretty generic after a certain point and I certainly don't waste my time with pointless collectibles).

If such feature is available in a game, I'll most likely go through it to have some mindlessly fun or challenge myself (when a NG+ mode increases the game's difficulty) but with no compromise involved, with that said I would like to have everything available for me on my first playthrough and don't be forced to play again to unlock new missions or gears (specially since this isn't the point of the game).

about difficulty options: if implemented, all of them should be available from the get go

Sesheenku
01-23-2016, 03:22 AM
the only point I see in a NG+ feature in AC are (obviously) being able to play the game from the get go with all our gear/skills/etc from a previous playthrough and avoid going through the hasle of selecting the missions we would like to replay via pause menu. I'm not fond of the idea of (more) locked content behind it, I'm not the kind of person that keeps playing the game over and over and over again, I play it once and that's it (most part of the time I don't even play all the side missions avaialble since many of them become pretty generic after a certain point and I certainly don't waste my time with pointless collectibles).

If such feature is available in a game, I'll most likely go through it to have some mindlessly fun or challenge myself (when a NG+ mode increases the game's difficulty) but with no compromise involved, with that said I would like to have everything available for me on my first playthrough and don't be forced to play again to unlock new missions or gears (specially since this isn't the point of the game).

about difficulty options: if implemented, all of them should be available from the get go

I don't play AC more than once either, cause there's nothing more to do or see when it's over. Now my games that have the feature? I've put in as much as 100-800 hours into them. I greatly enjoy playing them through again slowly doing the extra bits or bits I missed. I'm no completionist either, I just do everything at a slow and relaxed pace.

THE_JOKE_KING33
01-23-2016, 11:39 PM
As a fan of NG+ in any game. The choice was easy for me. :)