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Rajvosa
01-26-2004, 03:18 AM
Hello boyeez!

Seeing that not much is happening around the boards, I've decided to ask a little question!

Which plane made the first kill of WWII.
I know the answer. Do you? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif



Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v

Rajvosa
01-26-2004, 03:18 AM
Hello boyeez!

Seeing that not much is happening around the boards, I've decided to ask a little question!

Which plane made the first kill of WWII.
I know the answer. Do you? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif



Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v

Gershy
01-26-2004, 03:23 AM
hmmm...not sure. I remember reading somewhere that the first Air to air kill was claimed by a Ju87 reargunner over Poland but I'm not sure as I said, just remember reading it somewhere some loooong time ago. Can't even tell you where. I'm sure there's someone in here who knows more about that.

KIMURA
01-26-2004, 04:16 AM
I haven't my books handy, but the first kill was made by a Ju-87 which shot down a PZ.11. The Ju-87 returned from a bomb mission, @ ca. 05:00am and passed the base of the 121. Polish Sqn. The PZ.11 were on a climb to intercept bombers as they run into a Staffel of Ju-87. The leading Ju-87 gave a very short burst on the leading PZ.11 which exploded immediately. The PZ.11 pilot was killed during that action, whereas his wingman climbed away only to run in some further pulk of Do17. He gave some bursts on them but returned to base. Can post details that evening.

ElAurens
01-26-2004, 05:20 AM
You seem to be assuming that WW2 started in Europe.

There are several million Chinese who would argue that fact.

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Rajvosa
01-26-2004, 05:22 AM
I'm not assuming anything, pal. You just made the asumption. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif



Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v

SUPERAEREO
01-26-2004, 05:42 AM
Convention has WW2 starting with the invasion of Poland, but that is not to say that waste of human life did not take place before 1st September 1939.

That event engendered all the subsequent actions that escalated the conflict into a world war.

The Japanese invasion of China by itself would not have had major consequences in the west,and until Pearl Harbor and the sinking of the Repulse and Prince of Wales WW2 would not have taken place.

Hope I'm not being pedantic...

S!

panther3485
01-26-2004, 06:58 AM
The German invasion of Poland in September 1939 is almost universally accepted by historians and the point at which WW2 began, with the surrender of the Japanese in August 1945 being accepted as its end. There are GOOD REASONS for this.

Of course, there was other fighting going on prior to September 1939. (Somebody mentioned the Japanese invasion of China as the prime example and there were also a couple of serious clashes between the Japanese and the Soviets). But the probability of any of this escalating into global conflict (a 'World War', as we like to call it) was relatively low.

Because of the policies of many of the Western powers, notably Britain and France, the stance towards Germany was essentially one of appeasement. With painful memories of the slaughter of the Great War, they almost bent over backwards to avoid another but in the process, war only became more certain. Poland was the last straw, and the trigger.

Despite the essentially isolationist stance of the USA, with the pact between Germany, Italy and Japan, and with Japanese ambitions for an empire of their own, eventual American involvement was a 'when' rather than an 'if'. The USA was already leaning in this direction before the 'trigger' of Pearl Harbor sealed the bargain.

Now, when somebody asks "what was the first such-and-such of WW2?", I think it is REASONABLE to work on the basis of the generally accepted period, that is September '39 to August '45, and PLEASE, we all knew what the question meant and what the person who posted it was asking us!

So, those who answered by referring to Germany vs. Poland in September '39 are on the right track. PLEASE, no muddying of the issue!

Your patience and common sense would be greatly appreciated, and not just on this thread, either!

Best regards to all,
panther3485

Rajvosa
01-26-2004, 07:33 AM
Excellent reply, Panther!



Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v

noshens
01-26-2004, 08:56 AM
haha, ju gunner killed p11 with its 7mm gun? To do the same in this game we would need 30mm gun lol.

Chuck_Older
01-26-2004, 10:33 AM
I dunno, If I fly a bomber in back of an enemy Ju87 in FB, he usually kills the pilot!

*****************************
do I hear the echoes of the days of '39? ~Clash

MetalG.
01-26-2004, 11:33 AM
Don't know if it's true but I heard the first air to air kill of WWII was a Dornier shot down by a Polish P.11 ....

Insuber
01-26-2004, 01:52 PM
Some more details about the first aerial kills; I think this link will help you:

http://ww2-aviation.net/polavhist/sept39.html

"The first clash between Luftwaffe and Polish fighters took place on September the 1st, shortly before 7 am over the secret Polish airfield of Balice, near Cracow. A three-airplane section of 121 Eskadra was surprised during take-off by three Ju 87s and Capt. Medwecki, the Commanding Officer of the Cracow Army Fighter Wing was killed. His victor was Franck Neubert of StG2 Immelmann. 2nd Lt. Wladyslaw Gnys managed to evade the attack, and damage one of the Stukas. A few minutes later, having climbed, he attacked two Do 17s returning from a raid on Cracow, scoring several hits on each of them. After his second dive, he lost visual contact with them and returned to the airfield not knowing that he had just scored the first two victories over Luftwaffe in World War 2. The two German bombers collided after his attack and fell to the ground near the village of Zurada"

Regards,
Insuber