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Zacast
08-08-2004, 07:36 PM
Salute!

I am new to the school of the Butcher Bird. I started flying the A6 yesterday, figuring she'd be more forgiving for a newer pilot.

The P-51 has so far been the only plane which has given me major problems in the air. My tactics against them so far have been as follows -

-Obviously, start above them to hit him with a dive attack, then run http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-Get above him or come at his rear quarter from Co-altitude. Lock onto his six and use that roll to beat him as he tries to out maneuver myself.

-If I spot the mustang Co-E, and he sees me, I've been going head on trusting my engine to protect me... and attempting to destroy his weak engine =) I don't engage Co-E if he spots me unless I am forced to and after the head on I continue onwards to friendly turf. I find that it takes a very long time for a P-51 to run down my A6 at low-medium altitudes.

In other words I've been flying in a totally offensive manner against the runstang hoards. Thoughts?

Oh and one more question - How much faster is the FW-190A8 than A6?

Zacast
08-08-2004, 07:36 PM
Salute!

I am new to the school of the Butcher Bird. I started flying the A6 yesterday, figuring she'd be more forgiving for a newer pilot.

The P-51 has so far been the only plane which has given me major problems in the air. My tactics against them so far have been as follows -

-Obviously, start above them to hit him with a dive attack, then run http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-Get above him or come at his rear quarter from Co-altitude. Lock onto his six and use that roll to beat him as he tries to out maneuver myself.

-If I spot the mustang Co-E, and he sees me, I've been going head on trusting my engine to protect me... and attempting to destroy his weak engine =) I don't engage Co-E if he spots me unless I am forced to and after the head on I continue onwards to friendly turf. I find that it takes a very long time for a P-51 to run down my A6 at low-medium altitudes.

In other words I've been flying in a totally offensive manner against the runstang hoards. Thoughts?

Oh and one more question - How much faster is the FW-190A8 than A6?

Franzen
08-08-2004, 08:31 PM
Try defensive. Concentrate more on making them bleed their energy. For best results, trade in that A6 for an A4. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BTW, what does Co-E mean? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Fritz Franzen

Maj_Death
08-08-2004, 08:47 PM
Take an A8 or better yet an A9 or D9. They are faster. The P-51 as modeled soundly outmanuevers the Fw-190 at all but the highest speeds. At high speed they break even due to black out. The tactics you are using are pretty good. I suggest sticking to strict hit and run unless you have some competant team mates or your opponent is crippled. I've found the key to success in the Fw-190's is simplicity, just stick to simple hit and run and you should do well.

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Zacast
08-08-2004, 08:51 PM
Co-E = Co energy

I haven't yet had a chance to "energy fight" with several boom and zoom passes to force them to blow their energy, although I'm sure the oppurtunity will present itself soon. Can you elaborate on tactics to make the mustang defensive if there is more to it than just forcing them to blow E with diving passes?

My logic behind these sort of tactics is that it appears to me in my brief time in the 190 that whichever plane is forced defensive first is in a very dangerous situation. Both can rip eachother apart if the other is low on E. If I let him start chasing me around, he'll eventually run me down, and at that point I need to kill him in a dog fight since I can't run anymore.

Thus, I've been doing my best to get in, get him defensive, and kill him before he has a chance to mess me up.

On a side note, so far of the 4 Mustangs who have gotten on my six and chased me to the deck, I've managed to out scissor 3 of them and kill em in a turn fight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif The 190's turn performance VS Mustang surprised me.

Zacast
08-08-2004, 08:52 PM
Maj_Death -

I've found the FW-190A-6 to be superior to the P-51 in a slow turning engagement (well at least the pilots i was facing I was able to defeat when they started on my 6). Does the P-51 gain a huge advantage in turn VS the A8 or can you still beat mustangs in turn fights with A8?

Spinnetti
08-08-2004, 08:58 PM
Dunno about online where I'm sure its a totally different story, but single player with Ace AI, full real, Mustangs are as easy as they get (short of the P38).. You can hit them any way you want. (I fly the A5, but essentially the same thing)

Hunde_3.JG51
08-08-2004, 10:30 PM
As Major Death said it is best to keep it simple. Get higher than your opponent and go to work. If you are not higher then avoid confrontation and stalk your opponent. I have used high speed scissor effectively a few times but if I am caught slow then I did something wrong beforehand.

Use team-mates when possible. Remember that around 5,500-6,000m is where 190's are strongest. Mustang is much faster than any 190 at around 2,500m-4,500m and this height should be avoided. If caught and you have altitude (which you should always have), dive works well with subtle maneuvers until you can get to ground level and out-run him (but only in A-9 and D-9). If in others a steep dive with a reversal works well or high-g maneuvers which induce blackout (or edge of blackout) as he will likely do the same or lose wings trying. Remember you have slight control of aircraft most of the time when blacked out so don't sit still.

If being chased a climb (especially sustained) or turn will pretty much mean death against a competent pilot, your best bet is to dive and go from there. That is why A-9 and D-9 are far superior to A-6 IMO because the 190 uses raw speed to attack and escape and the A-9 is much faster (570 vs. 598km/h at SL, 670 vs. 695km/h at best height) than A-6. This is especially useful down low where it can leave most planes behind (except La-7 and P-63). A-9 also has one pass killing power. The scissor stuff is cool in an emergency but if you are using that then something went wrong, it is gamble that I usually avoid.

The A-6 does turn better than the A-8 and A-9 but neither will out-turn a P-51. If you out-turned Mustangs online at low speeds then your opponent didn't know what he was doing. The A-6 is a better scissor type fighter but again that is risky and unnecessary IMO. Though it can save you in an emergency.

Oh, and as for your question about A-6 and A-8 speed, the A-6 is slightly faster at altitudes above approx. 5,700m. The A-8 is slightly faster from 3,000m to 5,700m. The A-6 is faster from 1,500m to 3,000m. And the A-8 is faster from 1,500m down to the deck. Overall not too much different and I would probaly choose the A-8 for it's firepower (twin 30mm) and IMO slightly better climb. But they are fairly similar and any advantage one would give is too slight, the difference will strictly be a matter of pilot skill.

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Formerly Kyrule2
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[This message was edited by Hunde_3.JG51 on Sun August 08 2004 at 09:41 PM.]

VW-IceFire
08-08-2004, 10:50 PM
You've got the right approach. The FW190 is an offensive bird...fight offensively as often as possible.

Mustangs don't really present any major challenges that others don't...but they are fast and manuverable. I guess the thing to beat them with is firepower, your robust FW190 is tougher than the P-51, and if you hit that engine he'll flame or have the engine die.

Or take the FW190D-9 which can match the P-51 in some manuvers and is just as fast and powerful.

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Zacast
08-08-2004, 10:55 PM
My trouble with the P-51 is in it's speed and the fact that it's not as vulnerable to my roll rate as other planes. I can run from spitfires and if one gets up close I've never had a problem with diving and using the roll to throw em off so I can run.

I've made it my mission to learn the FW-190A8 and A-4 (for early war) armed with 20mm guns only. A8 because it was the most produced version of the 190 (and my favorite).. and the 20mm because I think it will be a greater challenge and more fun for me than the MK108.

Zacast
08-08-2004, 10:58 PM
Oh btw - Do any of you consider the Hammerhead / Rope a dope to be a valid 190 tactic when your speed advantage over the enemy is great enough?

VFS-22_Swiss
08-08-2004, 11:17 PM
This is right off the cuff. A8 and A9 are much faster birds with much more firepower. Think of the shark in the water. First they make a fast, crippiling attack, and then they circle and wait for their prey to bleed before making the death blow. The 190-s are the same. Make a good first hit (glancing are the best) regain altitude and come in for the final blow. If you can get the into a head-on attack you will have them every time. Mk 108 against .50 cal....no contest. If he gets on your tail, drop prop pitch to 75%, close the radiator , and head for home. He may try long shots, if he hits you don't turn, ( because you'll bleed E) just fly straight with little jinks from time to time. You will outrun him.

Swiss

jurinko
08-08-2004, 11:34 PM
avoid A-8 - it is a bomber killer, not a fighter. A-6 has 90% of its firepower and handles much better. Doubt that A-8 is faster.

---------------------
Letka_13/Liptow @ HL

Hunde_3.JG51
08-08-2004, 11:37 PM
Zacast, I admire your desire to learn the A-8 due to historical accuracy. I often think of doing the same but until certain issues are resolved (see: dive/ dive acceleration/zoom climb) I'll stay in the A-9. Historically the A-8 didn't fly against P-51's all with 25% fuel either as is the case online. Offline I fly the A-8 and not the A-9 but I don't do this too often (play offline).

As for the 20mm vs. 30mm the tactics don't change at all. The 20mm is actually easier to hit with and you have more ammo. 30mm also throws off aim easier. It may require two passes instead of one however. If you are set on sticking with 20mm and A-8 or A-6, then I would probably choose A-6.

As you said the trouble against P-51 is its speed and A-9 and D-9 have speed advantages in certain places that can be used tactically. In A-8 he will be faster at most altitudes and about the same at sea-level. If you take A-8 or A-6 then you better spiral climb after takeoff and get high. You better spot your enemy first and be smart about when to choose to engage. You better be able to recognize when you are losing your advantage, and leave enough cusion to escape if need be. You better look for wingmen, this is very important.

And yes the Hammerhead is a very valid tactic with a large energy/altitude advantage. Just make sure nobody else is around to climb up and kill you. This tactic is also less effective against planes like Spitifre who can hold their nose straight up at stall speed and gets shots in. Mustangs, P-47's, etc. won't be able to do this.

***Notice I said energy and altitude advantage, with speed advantage this tactic does not work because dive and zoom are not modelled correctly in FB, if you go into a zoom climb most planes will run you down very quickly so don't overestimate what a speed advantage can do for you (as I did early on, and it was a hard habit to break because in real life it should work). It is no substitute for an energy or altitude advantage, or a good wingman.

http://www.brooksart.com/Ontheprowl.jpg

Formerly Kyrule2
http://www.jg51.com/

Zacast
08-09-2004, 12:34 AM
I like the Dora and I find her to be very much superior to the P-51 when I've flown it in the past. Still... Not enough guns for me =)
Antons are cool.

Hunde,

I have often read about the trouble with properly modeling dive acceleration and zoom climb. Are these problems due to engine limitations with FB or will there come a day when proper dive acceleration is added for all our planes?

Btw thx for all the advice.

Edit - What is your reasoning behind picking A8 over A6? Isn't the A8 faster?

ElfunkoI
08-09-2004, 01:09 AM
Hey Zacast, you ol' WWIIOL dog. Get some wingmen or atleast a teamwork repore and you will r0xx0r their b0xx0rs most of the time. S!

"A6?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Will be A6!"

Franzen
08-09-2004, 01:23 AM
I was invited to fly with my buddy in Greater Green. I don't often venture outside my squadron's server so I knew nothing of this one.
Anyway, it was 1944 and my buddy asked me to fly the A8 and stay low for ground targets. I chose the 103's, love them. He took the K4. After flying for a while I asked for target locations. He apologized and told me he was mistaken, we are supposed to defend ground targets. Hmmm, so much for intel.
Next thing I know, we were being attacked by 4 P-51's, and I'm flying a Panzer at low alt. As always I went on the defensive while looking for an opportunity. Well, with in 5 mins I had sliced and diced 3 P-51's.
Now I know what a lot will say; the 3 pony drivers were not good. Well, everyone knows you don't have to be good in a P-51, that's why so many call it a noobplane.
The A8 isn't as bad as what some people say. Too many people always advise against turning a 190. If you concentrate on BnZ it will always be your limit. It takes a long time but work at it and learn to turn the 190's. I don't see the 190 as being too limited in this sim. I do think the players are limited. Keep an open mind.
A few guyz have told me I'm deadly in a 190 A4 but I feel I have a long way to go to mastering such a unique plane.

Fritz Franzen

Zacast
08-09-2004, 01:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElfunkoI:
Hey Zacast, you ol' WWIIOL dog. Get some wingmen or atleast a teamwork repore and you will r0xx0r their b0xx0rs most of the time. S!

"A6?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Will be A6!"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Funko http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

P-38, Spit IX, and Focke wulf will be in WW2online "Soon!" Hopefully you'll come back for a visit when that happens =)

Anyhow... I've been flying A6s on the war clouds server over the last two days against 1944 allied hoard. This has been excellent training so far and I know I'll do verrry well when I get a chance to play a 1943 map in Greatergreen with focke wulf.

Hunde_3.JG51
08-09-2004, 01:50 AM
Zacast, I doubt we will ever see dive/dive acceleration/zoom climb modelled at this point. I believe it is a game engine limitation, I can't see how the developers would miss that all planes dive the same at full throttle. I imagine we will have to wait until BoB is released (Maddox/1C's next sim in 2005).

As for which is faster, please note what I said a few posts up (I don't mean to sound like a jerk, its just too much to type again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif). They each are faster at different altitudes. The A-6 handles better but is a little slower at SL whereas the A-8 can match the Mustang almost exactly IIRC at SL.

Like I said between A-8 and A-6, both armed with 20mm, there is little to choose. Each has it's advantages but the similarities far outweigh the differences and it is pilot skill and proper tactics that will win the day. A-6 is a little more agile and may retain energy better, the A-8 climbs a little better IMO and has slightly higher speed at more useful altitudes. Either way it is a FW-190 so you can't lose http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif.

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Formerly Kyrule2
http://www.jg51.com/

THBF109
08-09-2004, 03:06 AM
&gt; ***Notice I said energy and altitude advantage, with speed advantage this tactic does not work

Hi, can you please explain what is the difference between speed adv and energy adv. I've been thinking that they are the same but now I feel I am maybe wrong.

Few days ago I made a b&z attack with a 190A8 against a P51 which was involved in dogfight below me and currently flying to opposite direction than me, didn't get him. When i was climbing away (so I thought) with my superior speed of about 750kmh I felt safe. But when I took a look back, to my amazement the P51 was very close and still closing fast. Could not understand how he did a 180 deg turn, accelerated and cought me so fast. Remember I was thinking: "yeah right, realism my .ss".

So, what happened?

Franzen
08-09-2004, 03:21 AM
Are you sure it was the same P-51? It sounds like a second one was dropping in from high as you were starting you climb. This has happened to me once or twice and can be quite confusing.

Fritz Franzen

BBB_Hyperion
08-09-2004, 03:33 AM
Maybe you pulled up too hard bleeds e faster. Try to extent and climb at best aoa . Also dont try this hang in the air when other plane is on your tail. Keep speed up to allow turning . You cant outclimb a p51 in AEP , you cant outturn it in sustained turn. What works is high speed turn with lot of e advantage. What you can try is to force P51 into blackout when engaged or play only with wingman hit and run.

High Ground is not only more agreeable and salubrious, but more convenient from a military point of view; low ground is not only damp and unhealthy, but also disadvantageous for fighting.

Sun Tzu : The Art of War

Regards,
Hyperion

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
08-09-2004, 03:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zacast:
Maj_Death -

I've found the FW-190A-6 to be superior to the P-51 in a slow turning engagement (well at least the pilots i was facing I was able to defeat when they started on my 6). Does the P-51 gain a huge advantage in turn VS the A8 or can you still beat mustangs in turn fights with A8?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WTF ?
i wan't see how u can defeat a P51(D?) in a Turnfight, we he's at your 6....

unless that guy was a complete noob he would toast you in secends.

http://home.arcor.de/sebastianleitiger/FB/Screens/Fw%20190A-4guns.JPG (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=185103665)

OldMan____
08-09-2004, 04:35 AM
The probem is that you only find P51D in game, while FW190 anf bf109 you find lots of models. Why? Because while all other planes decrease maneuverability in later war.. P51 does NOT! IT is faster, more amed, hevier and maneuvers the same ... pffff

That's why everyone call it noob plane.

An earlier P51 is no match for an 190 A4.

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

KGr.HH-Sunburst
08-09-2004, 05:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
An earlier P51 is no match for an 190 A4.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

not true
the mustangs domenate in any timeset when i look at some big server stats

On equal terms any mustang is better as the FW ingame
P51C/B outclimbs outruns and outturns the FW190A4 on 25% fuel wich they all use

i always look at equal terms fights where the FW has no major speed or alt advantage
and there is no way i can put myself in a quick advantage against the mustang
not even in a Dora wich i can fly damn well
and this BS about the FW A9 D9 being faster as a P51D on 25% fuel is only with a few kph
wich is not enough to give an edge
the problem is E bleed where the Mustang can make 2 full turns you can make only one with the same amount of E bleed however on very high speeds you can somewhat keep up with the mustang for short turns and keep the E up,yesterday i was flying on GG in a Dora and a had a nice field trip on the deck( i dont always go high in a Dora because i keep the speed so high i can disengage at will against spits on the same alt)
anyway i outturned a spit in my dora at high speed (500kph) and stayed on his six a long time till the speed droped to much i deployed flaps and turned inside him and blew him up http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif
just to show at high speeds a Dora can turn very well and stick with mustangs and spits for some time

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Hunde_3.JG51
08-09-2004, 07:50 AM
Sunburst, I think he meant in real life, and was referring to P-51A with Allison engine when he said "earlier Mustang."

And the A-9 being faster at SL is not "BS." It is useable, if you feel you are losing your energy advantage it lets you dive and escape. If you are getting caught then you need to recognize that your energy advantage is disappearing sooner. True it doesn't give any edge at all in a 1 vs. 1 duel to the death, but it does let you disengage from fight. I have dragged so many Mustangs over AAA to be shot down by breaking engagement at the right time. And the small speed margin the A-9 has lets me do this. It used to be more than a few km/h before 2.01 (or within one patch).

On equal terms, the Mustang is better than the FW-190A in '44. As it should be. If we had a P-51A to compare with A-3 or A-4 then the FW-190 should be better. Though I doubt it would be in-game, the P-51A would have to climb like a bus to be correct, relatively speaking.

And all 190's, even the A-9, has a great instantaneous turn that allows you to pull, though very briefly, the nose far enough to get a burst in. Usually done simultaneously with combat flaps. That is one of the least talked about advantages of 190 in-game. It's more a result of the 190 being good at high speed but it is very useable.

And big server stats don't mean anything, there are too many variables. I have bagged so many Mustang's, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm on PETA's most wanted list. I will say however that the FW-190 really needs full-switch type settings to be effective. It relies on the bounce and being unseen, or making himself unseen. I have never played in cockpit off servers and such, but I would imagine the 190 has it pretty rough there. But again, that doesn't mean much.

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Formerly Kyrule2
http://www.jg51.com/

ZG77_Nagual
08-09-2004, 08:03 AM
All good advice, but I've been able to outturn 51s in the dora - even slow. The dora's performance in all regimes seems to really improve around 4000m.

OldMan____
08-09-2004, 08:04 AM
The only two things the Fw190 needs are.. dive correctly working on FB. This would bennefit FW,BF109 P47 and P51 . Nad by correct I mean corect. 190 starting fast.. p51 having a very high top speed but only reaching later than 190.


And of course the dammit bomb rack removed when it should not be there.

I am leaving vision issuea outside this since they will NOT be corrected anyway.


One thing needed (but not by 190) is that MANY planes have their climb overdone (german, american, everyone)


My advice for 190 flyers.. 450 Km/h is your INFERIOR SPEED LIMIT!! Follow that religiously and you will be ok.

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

Zacast
08-09-2004, 12:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ToP_BlackSheep:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zacast:
Maj_Death -

I've found the FW-190A-6 to be superior to the P-51 in a slow turning engagement (well at least the pilots i was facing I was able to defeat when they started on my 6). Does the P-51 gain a huge advantage in turn VS the A8 or can you still beat mustangs in turn fights with A8?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WTF ?
i wan't see how u can defeat a P51(D?) in a Turnfight, we he's at your 6....

unless that guy was a complete noob he would toast you in secends.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=185103665<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All 3 cases where I managed to kill the mustangs worked exactly the same. He came in with a little more speed on me while I was in a slight dive or level flight, and I started a series of rolling scissors or barrel rolls, sometimes with chopped throttle.

He overshoots completely, or partially. We end up in a scissors fight which my focke wulf wins because of the roll rate. I eventually get the nose around and kill him.

I was VERY surprised at how well the 190 did in these low speed fights. I know I had luck on my side so I'm not looking to get into those fights anymore though =)

geetarman
08-09-2004, 12:26 PM
It's funny how perception colors things. I fly a Mustang about 25% of the time (the rest in a P-38) and find the P-51 to be an overall superior aircraft to any variant of the 190 series. That said, it's certainly not a "noob" plane like one poster called it.

If a 51 jock maintains his speed, and can pilot well, I do believe that a 190 is relatively easy to catch, and shoot down, even if manuevering takes place.

I think the 51 gets a "noob" rating because, after a year or so of it being out, guys can now fly it right and are shooting down planes frequently.

IMHO, I feel very confident, almost superior, in a 51, SO LONG, as I have altitude and speed. At least against the German planes.

All the 190's are great, dangerous planes, but can be bested easily by a well and properly flown P-51, IMHO.

Owlsphone
08-09-2004, 12:48 PM
Zacast is right with his rolling scissors. I feel confident in my P51 which I fly 90% of the time EXCEPT when a FW starts rolling everywhere. Especially with the modified .50 cal dispersion, yu can't spray and pray when they go into those rolls. As a 51 flyer, I recommend if you have a Mustang on your six, roll. It's the thing I have most trouble with.

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Vertically challenged since 1984.

BBB_Hyperion
08-09-2004, 12:51 PM
It is a plane that outturns 190, has better e keeping than 190 and climbs better. Noob plane i wouldnt say cause its still no ki84c but with all advantages on your site its surely easier to win with it than in the current 190 counterpart models. The P51 in 1.21 was better simulated http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

High Ground is not only more agreeable and salubrious, but more convenient from a military point of view; low ground is not only damp and unhealthy, but also disadvantageous for fighting.

Sun Tzu : The Art of War

Regards,
Hyperion

geetarman
08-09-2004, 01:29 PM
The biggest problem I have while flying a Mustang against a 190 is blackout, if the FW starts to go through it's gyrations.

I had a great fight a few nights ago OL. I tried the Dora and went up against a well flown P-47 who came at me with an alt. advantage. That was fun!

A bit later the same thing happened with a guy flying a 51 and me in the Dora. I did not feel like running so the fight began. The 51 stuck to me like glue.

I love the 190's but really find them to be a challenge vs. the Mustang.

JG7_Rall
08-09-2004, 02:48 PM
Keep flying how you're flying, it sounds like you're doing a good job.

If any plane is on your six, get your speed up a bit and simply do scissors-nothing can get you if you do em right. They'll overshoot and you can either run, or if you're in a good position with enough E, shoot em.

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r5388/fw190sig.jpg
"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!

El Turo
08-09-2004, 03:51 PM
Zac!

Welcome to your new home. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


As with most things, the superior pilot with generally win most engagements of relatively similarly performing aircraft. But, you already knew that. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The Fw190 rolls like a demon, so use that to your advantage. It also eats 50-cal like tic-tacs from directly behind, so you can use that to your advantage as well. Scissors are a great option for defeating an overly aggressive bad guy on your close rear quarter as long as they play follow the leader. If not, you've gotta pull something else out of your bag of tricks.

Fw190 is a rough plane to get fancy with in the traditional yank/bank dogfighter's mentality. If you really want to let it all hang out and get all kinds of risky, you can go for vertical-rolling manuevers where you can change direction and move your lift vector very quickly to make up for your lack of raw horizontal turning power. You can combine this with slicebacks and rudder use at the top of your vertical manuevers to throw off your attacker and/or manuever for a firing opportunity.

However, do so with the knowledge that by increasing your opportunity for a killing shot, you're also opening the door a whole lot wider for getting someone's foot shoved up an uncomfortable orifice.

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Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

VFS-22_SPaRX
08-09-2004, 03:51 PM
Why is it that thread like these always turn into uber slug fests. IMHO, any plane can beat anyother plane that is in the sim. Its a matter of knowing how to fly the plane to its strenghts and forcing your opponant to make a mistake you can take advantage of. I can recall one pilot (can't remember his name right off) that could take down just about anyone in a brewster. He knew what that plane could and could not do and used it to his advantage. If you ask me, almost all air battles are won not because someone is flying a better plane, its because his adversary made a mistake and he used that to win the battle.

FWs are very good opposition to P51s. If a Highly skilled P51 pilot and FW pilot get into a battle, most of the time the battle ends with both planes badly tore up and heading home. Saying the 51 is uber is just plain nuts. It takes a very skilled pilot to fly the P51 to its fullest just as it takes a skilled pilot to fly any other plane in the sim to its fullest. Yes the P51 has an easy learning curve in the beginning. Becoming a "good" pilot is not that hard. But to push the P51 to the next level and become a skilled pilot takes just that, alot of skill and knowledge of the plane. This can be said of any aircraft in the for the most part.

Now, to make some comments relative to Zacast's thread. I happen to be one of those 51s you got into a turn fight with. You one the battle and i S! you for a well fought turnfight. I made a mistake in that battle, and you being a good pilot seen that and capitalized on it. I assumed you were in an A8/9 and was fighing you with that assumption. Had i known you were in an A6, i would have done things very differently. Am i going to tell you what i woudl do different, OF COURSE NO http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif !!!! Why would i give you my secrets http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Again, I S! you on a well fought battle and look forward to battling you again.

Just a final thought or two. As i stated before, most battles are won becaues one pilot makes a mistake an the other pilot capitalizes on that mistake. Instead of blaming your getting shot down on an "uber" plane, maybe look back over the battle and see what you could have done different. Alot of kills are scored because the pilot that lost makes some very elementry mistakes. I wish i could count how many kills i have scored because someone Split S's right through my cross-hair, pulls into a straight up vertical when he obviously does not have an E advantage, or just plain isnt paying attention to his six and i fly right up to within 200 meters of him flying straight and level. I would say that these three things are the most common online kills that take place.

I guess i have rambled on long enough. I hope this helps someone in their persuit to become a good pilot. I am sure someone will flame or make comments on this post, but such is life http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

S! and happy flying

SPaRX