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View Full Version : What Can The Jack the Ripper DLC Bring to the Series? (Spoilers, obviously)



cawatrooper9
12-17-2015, 03:36 PM
So, unlike last year when I could play Dead Kings the second it came out, I have a fiance and job this year and am only a little bit into the new DLC (I know, I guess it balances out in the end, but I still can't help but feel that I'm missing out).

That being said, I can't help but notice the trend in that the main game ACS played it relatively safe while the Jack DLC brought some real innovation to the series. I think that, like in Dead Kings, TOKW, and Freedom Cry before it, we're unlikely to see much of this innovation in future releases- however, I'd like to discuss some things that I wouldn't mind seeing again.

Final warning! Don't click on the SPOILER tag unless you've played the Jack the Ripper DLC!



Fear-
One of the biggest innovations that Jack brought was fear. Enemy AI is one of the most hotly contested components of the series (outside of hoods, apparently :rolleyes:) and, well I'm not absolutely sure I like how fear plays out in this DLC but it's certainly a huge step in the right direction. The fact that enemies react to their surroundings with something other than unbridled aggression or completely passive ambivalence is good. I do take issue with two things about fear here, though:

1) The way that it is activated- fear, for the most part, is a product of use of consumables. Yes, you can activate it with a brutal takedown and fear can spread with some skills purchased, but I found the things that activated fear to be kind of arbitrary. Personally, I'd rather have enemies be harder to scare, but scared by more things. Rather than having an entire squad of policemen freakout and run away when Jack makes a brutal kill in front of them, why not have their fear meter slowly increase every time they come across an enemy that's been stealth killed? Or have their fear meter increase slightly with every kill made in front of them (kind of like the Altair/Ezio games)?

2) The effect- enemies just kind of run around in circles like lunatics or sit down and cower with fear, making them easy targets. Personally, I'd prefer fear to be a double edged sword- have some enemies cower in a fear paralysis, of course, but have others maybe run to get help, bringing in enemy reinforcements if they aren't intercepted. They could even make enemies react in ways based off of their class (like how Brutes don't react at all) thus forcing players to be even more tactical on the order that they kill enemies in.


Dual Protagonists
All right, if you're not going to have your protagonists work together on missions (like in almost every mission in Syndicate, maybe bar the last one) you may as well have them working against each other. In the past, I remember people have discarded the idea of playing as two characters at odds with each other as unfeasible, in that no one would have motivation to work for the side that they didn't support. This DLC handles this issue pretty elegantly, actually. You spend the majority of your time as the relate-able character, the hero. Then, you sometimes switch to the villain- you don't have to do all the sidequests as the villain, nor do you have to collect money or invest in shops, thereby undoing all of the hard work you've done as a hero. You merely play part of the story as a bad guy, much like how sometimes movies show things from the antagonists' point of view. This affords a unique perspective, and is actually sometimes kind of fun (if you can't tell from now, I love playing the bad guy every now and then).

Setting
So far, both of Evie's assassinations have happened in areas outside of the main map. This is very interesting to me, as these locations have been pretty unique- and also, it dares more than the main game ever did, as we really never left London in ACS after arriving in it. We used to have event-specific locations all the time (Arsuf, Vienna, Bunker Hill, etc) and I'd love to see them come back in the main series, if not just to get a breath of fresh air every now and then outside of the main city. Or, you know, we could have multiple cities again- that would be cool.

Psychology in the Animus
Psychology has (rather ironically) not really been an issue often in the Animus. The series has pitched that it displays an objective (though often Abstergo-edited) view of history. Sure, we have events like Arno's blurry drunkenness, Edward's drunken dreams (I see a pattern forming here), etc... but what I really like about this DLC is that we get the contrast of Evie's analytical and organized mind by her "notes" that occur on the scenery next to the crime scene investigations (I'm not referring to the image that pops up initially, but the words that actually get "written" on the scenery) and the words that Jack sees when running around. Everything from the phrasing to the handwriting, reflects their mental state. Bravo, Ubisoft!


So that's what I have so far. What would you like to see adapted in future releases? Have I missed something big (or am I in for a surprise later)?

VestigialLlama4
12-17-2015, 05:17 PM
The fear mechanic has always been there in AC. In AC1 and AC2, if you defeated certain number of enemies in a fairly brutal and efficient manner, the others get scared and run off. The one we see in the DLC is not really efficient in my view compared to other stealth games. It should be possible to use fear to manipulate NPCs around the environment to avoid conflict entirely but it's not as diverse as that yet.

Syndicate was more innovative in that it identified certain guards as Templars while others are marked blue, marked as either police allies or innocent unaffiliated.


That being said, I can't help but notice the trend in that the main game ACS played it relatively safe while the Jack DLC brought some real innovation to the series. I think that, like in Dead Kings, TOKW, and Freedom Cry before it, we're unlikely to see much of this innovation in future releases/

Black Flag was really innovative - Aside from open-world sailing, it systemized stealth to the point that Rogue-Unity-Syndicate have merely copied it and not moved past it at all. You see Alarm Bells and big open pathways of multiple entries and exits.

Dead Kings is not more innovative than Unity, but Unity was not terribly innovative either. Jack the Ripper has more interesting elements in the story than the main game but its frustrated by the form.

So the only trend is the lack of the same level of ambition and level of detail you had in the games up to Black Flag.

I don't think Jack the Ripper is the mark of anything new or definite. Basically at this point AC is unmoored and there's no plan beyond the next game.

whatr_those
12-17-2015, 05:21 PM
DLC was piss-poor garbage. Ubisoft has failed once again.

cawatrooper9
12-17-2015, 05:59 PM
The fear mechanic has always been there in AC. In AC1 and AC2, if you defeated certain number of enemies in a fairly brutal and efficient manner, the others get scared and run off. The one we see in the DLC is not really efficient in my view compared to other stealth games. It should be possible to use fear to manipulate NPCs around the environment to avoid conflict entirely but it's not as diverse as that yet.

Syndicate was more innovative in that it identified certain guards as Templars while others are marked blue, marked as either police allies or innocent unaffiliated.



Right, I mentioned that in my post- but in previous games, it only mattered when you whittled down the enemies to the last man or so.


Black Flag was really innovative - Aside from open-world sailing, it systemized stealth to the point that Rogue-Unity-Syndicate have merely copied it and not moved past it at all. You see Alarm Bells and big open pathways of multiple entries and exits.

Dead Kings is not more innovative than Unity, but Unity was not terribly innovative either. Jack the Ripper has more interesting elements in the story than the main game but its frustrated by the form.

So the only trend is the lack of the same level of ambition and level of detail you had in the games up to Black Flag.

Of course there are innovative games, and perhaps I was misleading with my original post- what I mean is that the DLC has often been a bit more risky with it.


I don't think Jack the Ripper is the mark of anything new or definite. Basically at this point AC is unmoored and there's no plan beyond the next game.
Also not at all what I meant- just looking for what we might like to adopt from this DLC for future releases.


DLC was piss-poor garbage. Ubisoft has failed once again.
I disagree, but perhaps you'd like to actually state the reasons that you didn't like it, so that we can have a discussion like adults?

Farlander1991
12-17-2015, 07:03 PM
The fear mechanic has always been there in AC. In AC1 and AC2, if you defeated certain number of enemies in a fairly brutal and efficient manner, the others get scared and run off.

That kind of morale system (killing an enemy reduces morale of other enemies, killing a brute in AC2 would reduce 1000 points or so, targeting them first is like the most surefire way to make all other non-brute enemies in combat to run away, well, grunts and agiles at least, don't remember if Captains/Seekers have more morale) was present in all AC games, and it's in Syndicate as well.

Syndicate also has the Dead Kings system of killing a leader to make everybody around **** themselves (leaders have their level marked in gold in Syndicate) and run.

Haven't played Jack the Ripper yet, but so far it looks like a more direct manipulation of the morale system already in place (and putting it as a UI element) via tools.

MikeFNY
12-17-2015, 08:21 PM
I do hope we don't see the the fear mechanism in future games, it's ridiculous. Why aren't enemies scared when they see you perform a double assassination yet their run away when you throw a bomb at them? It seems this came out from some sort of comic and kills the stealth aspect of the game. Like when I had to approach Nellie in an earlier mission, I cannot understand why instead of allowing me to complete the mission in stealth mode, I am forced to use ridiculous scare tactics as an optional objective.

Having said that, just like you, I also loved how all boss missions were set in areas you cannot access during normal roaming. As I said in the other thread, I loved the Lisbon mission in Rogue, it had something special and the fact that it was in a complete different environment helped to achieve this.

The dual protagonists idea could have worked nicely had they adopted what I also mentioned in the other thread. I'll just paste what I said elsewhere:

6. Dreadful Crimes DLC
Impressive! Huge improvement from how it was done in Unity. And that final mission, awesome, especially how it all ends. Heck, that's how all templar conspiracy missions should have been. I'm not sure you can play it with Evie but I played this mission with Jacob, then switching to Evie. I approached Henry Raymond from behind performing a ledge assassination as Jacob was pointing his gun at him. See it would be great if we could do this type of planning ourselves, you instruct one assassin to do something whilst you perform the assassination with the second one. Another example would be using one assassin to loot the target to a particular area so as to air assassinate him with your second assassin.

The way it was done, either one or the other, just didn't do it for me. It seems the whole Jacob wants to clean London, Evie wants the piece of eden stuff was written in this way in order to avoid the two of them working together yet that final Dreadful Crimes missions showed that it's possible.

In the end, I agree with VestigialLlama4, we're seeing very little innovative features from the series and what we see is either copied from other games like the rope launcher or simply hilarious features such as the disguise in Unity or the chameleon skill in this one. I hated Black Flag and Rogue initially but today I understand that they brought something completely new to the table that in a way I miss.

raytrek79
12-17-2015, 08:34 PM
Jack the Ripper seems to simply be an extension of Dreadfuls at its core, the franchise looking to make mystery and riddles as a recurring side mission. Detective Drama is grossly under represented in games, Ubisoft seems to be aiming at a neglected demographic.

Personally I think the Dreadful Crimes side missions could be done a lot better, it is far too easy in the sense that it tells you how many clues are there and it tells you where to go next, usually a big green circle or square on the map with a magnifying glass. Eagle Vision makes finding clues easy enough on its own, and finding new evidence zones should fall to knowing the city better, or at least as they did with the music disk/Aegis, or the poems in Unity.

If worse comes to worse and you get stuck you could go back to Vidoqc/Abberline/Arty/Raymond, or whoever hosts the side mission, and ask them for feedback, to which they may offer information on your next evidence zone or tell you that you may have missed a clue.

RA503
12-18-2015, 12:16 AM
Psychology was obvious based in the Harley Quinn pre order episode from Arkhan Knight and in Batman is more developed because some of his toughs is well hidden, what give's a replay value and artistic analisys for the episode. I hope see more of this in a future title since basically don't exist diference between memories and toughs.

see this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLeU07tN5ig

As the writting during the investigations, I interpret that Eagle Vision become more powerfull as the person become old,Ezio in revelation can even see past events some similar is Evie in this DLC ...