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View Full Version : Is anyone else upset that this series is supossedly only heading forwards in history?



WendysBrioche
12-10-2015, 04:20 AM
I mean, I thought this game was all about swords. Sure, a few games should be in modern times, but why can't the series go back to an earlier time for some games as well?

Just, guns in modern times are just going to turn the game into a shooter. Hidden blades and melee kills are so obsolete with the invention of long ranged guns and such.

And personally I think assassins' robes look way cooler with old fashion and culture pre 1900's. Idk just my thoughts.

Sesheenku
12-10-2015, 04:46 AM
They can't possibly push any further, at least they better not. There's **** tons of old time periods they haven't touched upon.

D.I.D.
12-10-2015, 05:03 AM
We're gradually breaking the record on getting closer to the present day, but it's not strictly pushing forward all the time (it has gone back and forth with AC3 to AC4 to ACU).

I really like the more modern scenarios. I'm not against going into the more distant past again, but Unity and Syndicate's settings have been great for me. I really liked how dangerous Unity made the guns, and forced you to think about what to do about them (sneaking with the environment and smoke, or prioritising the gunmen in take off a layer of security). Syndicate made you much less vulnerable to gunfire, which might have been a mistake. Also, while I appreciate it would have been too much work to give us a full-on Victorian London in one go, I'd be quite happy to see the same setting again if it means it can be fully developed (more landmark interiors, tube trains, Tomb/Crypt-style ancient underground locations, a greater range of architecture styles and NPCs, etc).

VestigialLlama4
12-10-2015, 05:53 AM
I mean, I thought this game was all about swords. Sure, a few games should be in modern times, but why can't the series go back to an earlier time for some games as well?

Just, guns in modern times are just going to turn the game into a shooter. Hidden blades and melee kills are so obsolete with the invention of long ranged guns and such.

And personally I think assassins' robes look way cooler with old fashion and culture pre 1900's. Idk just my thoughts.

I agree about the Assassin's Robes but that's more a choice made by Ubisoft than anything inherent. The Assassins can do away with the hoods if they have to but the marketing like the hoods so that they can merchandise stuff.

Anyway, the point is a MD assassin's creed does not have to be a shooter.

The fact is AC is social stealth/action/platform. In a modern setting, firing a gun in broad daylight would attract attention. An Assassin likewise would avoid it because there's always a chance of a stray bullet hitting a civilian. They might say we can use silencers but we know for a fact that in real-life silencers are only relatively silent, and they don't work as well as we think they do in movies and games. It only provides a tiny advantage. Most open world games, your GTAs, your Watch Dogs, Saints Row, set in modern eras is not really a true reflection of living in modern settings. It's a very exaggerated form of gameplay, that is fun but it has that one-to-one idea that "Since we have weapons such as guns, all of god's children's got guns".

Likewise with the development of forensics and surveillance would mean that you can stage assassinations in a more stealthy way, like make it look like accidents or untracable poison and weapons, destroy evidence and bodies and so on.

It could potentially be the stealthiest game yet.

D.I.D.
12-10-2015, 06:25 AM
Actually that's something I noticed about Syndicate. I had these great guns but I rarely if ever used them, for exactly that reason: the noise. This was a nice thing. No point in using a gun in a one vs many location assault, but in a brawl and especially with assistance, time to go to town with that thing. Then again, I might want to draw everybody to my position with a gunshot and escape before they get there.

Anyway, I liked there being equal access to a weapon which was not equally useful: something the enemy could use with abandon but was mostly a disadvantage to me. I'd quite like them to take that even further, with maybe more athletic enemies or more damage from wounds.

VestigialLlama4
12-10-2015, 07:40 AM
Actually that's something I noticed about Syndicate. I had these great guns but I rarely if ever used them, for exactly that reason: the noise. This was a nice thing. No point in using a gun in a one vs many location assault, but in a brawl and especially with assistance, time to go to town with that thing. Then again, I might want to draw everybody to my position with a gunshot and escape before they get there.

Anyway, I liked there being equal access to a weapon which was not equally useful: something the enemy could use with abandon but was mostly a disadvantage to me. I'd quite like them to take that even further, with maybe more athletic enemies or more damage from wounds.

Yeah. The fact is if we look at assassinations and murders in the 20th Century you will find that the knife didn't exactly go out of fashion. People still used it.

A MD Assassin's Creed could work very well given the right approach and setting. The worst thing to do is to decide that Because A, then B. I.E. "since we have cars and modern looking settings, we are going to be a GTA Clone." That thinking is one of the weaknesses of Syndicate, where carriages are hijacked GTA style when that makes zero sense in gameplay and story reasons.

dxsxhxcx
12-10-2015, 08:15 AM
I agree about the Assassin's Robes but that's more a choice made by Ubisoft than anything inherent. The Assassins can do away with the hoods if they have to but the marketing like the hoods so that they can merchandise stuff.

Anyway, the point is a MD assassin's creed does not have to be a shooter.

The fact is AC is social stealth/action/platform. In a modern setting, firing a gun in broad daylight would attract attention. An Assassin likewise would avoid it because there's always a chance of a stray bullet hitting a civilian. They might say we can use silencers but we know for a fact that in real-life silencers are only relatively silent, and they don't work as well as we think they do in movies and games. It only provides a tiny advantage. Most open world games, your GTAs, your Watch Dogs, Saints Row, set in modern eras is not really a true reflection of living in modern settings. It's a very exaggerated form of gameplay, that is fun but it has that one-to-one idea that "Since we have weapons such as guns, all of god's children's got guns".

Likewise with the development of forensics and surveillance would mean that you can stage assassinations in a more stealthy way, like make it look like accidents or untracable poison and weapons, destroy evidence and bodies and so on.

It could potentially be the stealthiest game yet.

Good luck translating that into gameplay though, I mean, of course there'll be moments where this will work, but we'll also have a lot of awkward moments such as Abstergo agents using baton sticks instead of pointing a gun to the protagonist to stop him (and assuming they need him alive, shooting his legs if he fails to do that), a modern setting would inevitably turn AC into a shooter if they want to avoid weird situations such as this, because when hell breaks loose we'll have to use guns and it makes zero sense for the enemies don't use theirs as well, IMO I don't think most AC fans would like that. It looks good on paper (when we think about how it would make stealth a more viable choice), but in practice, I think things would be a lot different, especially in an open world environment...

VestigialLlama4
12-10-2015, 10:06 AM
Good luck translating that into gameplay though, I mean, of course there'll be moments where this will work, but we'll also have a lot of awkward moments such as Abstergo agents using baton sticks instead of pointing a gun to the protagonist to stop him (and assuming they need him alive, shooting his legs if he fails to do that), a modern setting would inevitably turn AC into a shooter if they want to avoid weird situations such as this, because when hell breaks loose we'll have to use guns and it makes zero sense for the enemies don't use theirs as well, IMO

Well that's only if you decide to enter into combat. In my way to do modern day, make it solely Stealth/Parkour/Evasion. Combat works only in close counters and groups of three or four. And do it in the open world, where using guns will accidentlaly kill civilians and cause desynchronisation.

Likewise, in a modern day, thanks to increased communication technology you won't really be having a great deal of police to deal with. In real-life we don't have guards on every rooftop like we do in medieval worlds. In fact I doubt very much if they had that even then. Every building or bank would have building security, loosely armed and minimal threat, there's usually only two or three of them. They can also probably be bribed or infiltrated. Police will only be a serious threat if you indulge in vehicular violence and hijinks, so there will be a balance between foot and car that you can work in (which again Syndicate failed to do).

So I think a MD a-c game would be the most socially stealthy game yet. You would have more layered social interactions and ways to hide and blend.

The fact is that it can be done for sure. And it can be entertaining because there are multiple ways to play the game.

Ureh
12-10-2015, 11:42 PM
Oh yes I think we're all wondering if they have any good plans for going further back to the roots. Lots of rich gold mines to revisit, plenty of great ideas brought up by our fellow Assassins and Templars. I wouldn't be surprised if the devs and pubs were thinking about it too, but I'm guessing they'll want to reuse the 18th-19th century assets for a little while longer. I think there were 2-4 memories in the ACU helix selector that we haven't relived yet... Jazz Age, Hibernia, Bladed Cross and another. Maybe one of them is the next setting... or not?

I guess it won't hurt if keep bringing it up everywhere and every chance we get, and every time any of us get a survey concerning potential settings we let them know.

Civona
12-11-2015, 02:47 AM
you stated exactly why it would be hard to do the core gameplay of AC in modern times and then you seem to think they'll still do all of the extra work they'd need to for that? Lol. Also Watch Dogs exists and it's already about modern third person shooting and in ubisoft's mind that already covers the market that would want a modern third person open world shooter.

LoyalACFan
12-11-2015, 12:39 PM
Interestingly, the traditionally historical AC is going forwards in time, while Far Cry is doing just the opposite. I'd love nothing more than for AC to go waaay farther back into times that aren't so fetishized in the modern popular consciousness, but I fear that they may favor sticking close to the present so it's easier to justify new tech gizmos like the rope launcher, which allow them to pretend like the gameplay isn't stagnating. Basically, it's easier to slap a bunch of new doodads on every year and cry "innovation" rather than going back to more primitive times with no such distractions, and actually deliver the goods with the foundation mechanics.

dxsxhxcx
12-11-2015, 12:52 PM
Interestingly, the traditionally historical AC is going forwards in time, while Far Cry is doing just the opposite. I'd love nothing more than for AC to go waaay farther back into times that aren't so fetishized in the modern popular consciousness, but I fear that they may favor sticking close to the present so it's easier to justify new tech gizmos like the rope launcher, which allow them to pretend like the gameplay isn't stagnating. Basically, it's easier to slap a bunch of new doodads on every year and cry "innovation" rather than going back to more primitive times with no such distractions, and actually deliver the goods with the foundation mechanics. Well put and it's a shame that things have gone this way. I would love to visit a setting close to the era of one of the other legendary Assassins whose statues can be found in the sanctuary below the Villa (Darius comes to mind), but unfortunately, given the current situation, I doubt Ubisoft would go through the "hassle" of having to elaborate on how the Orders acted before they became known as Assassins and Templars, they would probably copy and paste everything and create a poor excuse to justify the Orders' rites.

dannykd
12-11-2015, 01:38 PM
the series can always go back and a new story story can always be told :)
the only thing im worried about in this franchise is it dending 1 day... i've loved it so far and hope we get many more games out of it

VoXngola
12-11-2015, 01:42 PM
Interestingly, the traditionally historical AC is going forwards in time, while Far Cry is doing just the opposite. I'd love nothing more than for AC to go waaay farther back into times that aren't so fetishized in the modern popular consciousness, but I fear that they may favor sticking close to the present so it's easier to justify new tech gizmos like the rope launcher, which allow them to pretend like the gameplay isn't stagnating. Basically, it's easier to slap a bunch of new doodads on every year and cry "innovation" rather than going back to more primitive times with no such distractions, and actually deliver the goods with the foundation mechanics.

Well said. I wish the AC team would be more bold and go crazy. It just seems like they are fond of their comfort zone they are in and don't want to leave anytime soon.

ImaginaryRuins
12-11-2015, 01:58 PM
With all those new elements introduced into the series, going back into the past isn't going to be easy. Like what LoyalACFan said, older settings mean no gadgets. Not many players would want to be able to use only throwing knives, one hidden blade, fists, and one sword only, as Altair did.

sharpblade1508
12-11-2015, 07:56 PM
I definitely want the series to go back in time. One of the things I love most about the assassins is the menacing hoods, and the more modern we get, the more ubisoft feels the need to take that away and make you look like just some guy. I personally want to see ancient Rome or ancient Greece. We could still have gadgets so to speak, but they would just be different, for example, instead of the rope launcher, we could have a bow where we fire an arrow with a rope attached to it and thus create some sort of zip-line. Also there could be some new features an ancient time period (especially Greece or Rome) with shields, those were a big part of combat back then. Since an assassin wouldn't carry a big shield like a soldier would, give them a more compact version of one that they could easily throw on their back when not in use. Maybe add Greek fire bombs, and have slings as well as throwing knives. Sure, some of these features would be more primitive and on the simplistic side, but it's stuff we haven't used in the series before and could be pretty entertaining to use. Really, going back in time I think would really help this series feel like AC again.

D.I.D.
12-11-2015, 09:35 PM
I think they just have to be careful about how many things are added during a period of high technology like the eras we're seeing now. The original hidden blade mechanism was a huge anachronism, and the early games had Leonardo marvelling at how impossibly well-crafted it was for its age. There was a hint in this that maybe the hidden blade had a mysterious history of its own, like perhaps it was First Civ originally or made by humans who had a technological headstart because of tools or materials they'd used in First Civ settings. Maybe it's a bit too late to do it, but perhaps the series should have us uncovering new impossible gadgets in the same way that we used to find artefacts. Ubisoft could decide which gadgets stayed and went by explanation of the difficulties with maintaining or reproducing these gadgets for Assassin engineers.

cawatrooper9
12-11-2015, 09:57 PM
I think they just have to be careful about how many things are added during a period of high technology like the eras we're seeing now. The original hidden blade mechanism was a huge anachronism, and the early games had Leonardo marvelling at how impossibly well-crafted it was for its age. There was a hint in this that maybe the hidden blade had a mysterious history of its own, like perhaps it was First Civ originally or made by humans who had a technological headstart because of tools or materials they'd used in First Civ settings. Maybe it's a bit too late to do it, but perhaps the series should have us uncovering new impossible gadgets in the same way that we used to find artefacts. Ubisoft could decide which gadgets stayed and went by explanation of the difficulties with maintaining or reproducing these gadgets for Assassin engineers.

I think Arkham Origins is a relevant example here. At its time, it showcased the most modern and well equipped Batman in the series to date, even though the game occurred chronologically years before the next game in the series. Why Bruce got rid of Electrocutioner's shock gloves, we'll never know. Well, I'm sure someone knows the BS answer that the devs gave. But I guarantee you that's nothing but backpedaling.

AC could be the same way. Look at it this way- let's take one of the most common tools in the series now, smoke bombs (though, I don't remember... were they in Syndicate this year?). Smoke bombs are great, they help with both stealth and combat, they're ninja-esque, they're just all around a very handy tool to have. Now, let's say we go to a very requested setting- let's say, Ancient Greece. Here, we can have all the gear we want- smoke bombs, darts, etc... but that begs the question: If Assassin X in Ancient Greece had smoke bombs, why didn't seemingly any of the Assassins from Masyaf, arguably the best garrisoned, stockpiled, and organized Assassin headquarters in history?

D.I.D.
12-11-2015, 10:10 PM
AC could be the same way. Look at it this way- let's take one of the most common tools in the series now, smoke bombs (though, I don't remember... were they in Syndicate this year?).

Yes they were :)


Smoke bombs are great, they help with both stealth and combat, they're ninja-esque, they're just all around a very handy tool to have. Now, let's say we go to a very requested setting- let's say, Ancient Greece. Here, we can have all the gear we want- smoke bombs, darts, etc... but that begs the question: If Assassin X in Ancient Greece had smoke bombs, why didn't seemingly any of the Assassins from Masyaf, arguably the best garrisoned, stockpiled, and organized Assassin headquarters in history?

I guess you can always explain things by divided geography and simple loss over time. There are technologies like mileometers and water drills which have been abandoned by one culture only to turn up independently in another, and if you count advanced mathematics as a technology then the same things have happened to that kind of knowledge. If what you need is a cloud of smake to obscure yourself, then it's not too much of a stretch to imagine unconnected cultures arriving at the same solution (and for cultures in the intervening time to have had nothing like that). Famously, at one time Greek fire was a technological wonder of warfare, the kind of thing you can't imagine a culture ever losing, and yet it did and we still can't reproduce it.

cawatrooper9
12-11-2015, 10:24 PM
I guess you can always explain things by divided geography and simple loss over time. There are technologies like mileometers and water drills which have been abandoned by one culture only to turn up independently in another, and if you count advanced mathematics as a technology then the same things have happened to that kind of knowledge. If what you need is a cloud of smake to obscure yourself, then it's not too much of a stretch to imagine unconnected cultures arriving at the same solution (and for cultures in the intervening time to have had nothing like that). Famously, at one time Greek fire was a technological wonder of warfare, the kind of thing you can't imagine a culture ever losing, and yet it did and we still can't reproduce it.

That's true, I guess I'm just worried about the Levantine Assassins looking like a bunch of chumps. As of now, each game has been significantly after them, so it's understandable that progress has been made, but if we find out that the most advanced weapon they had were throwing knives, even when others had far superior technology centuries before them, I can't help but see their legacy as a bit tainted- even though geography could certainly have had a part to play in that.

ze_topazio
12-11-2015, 10:40 PM
Or concrete, used by the Romans in pretty much all their constructions, after the collapse of the Roman Empire the formula for making concrete was lost for centuries.

I-Like-Pie45
12-11-2015, 11:38 PM
The Roman concrete was faked along with all other achievements of the Empire, the Romans lived in mud huts and did everything with husks of corn and their territorial claims only stretched to the very border of Northern Syldavia, everything to the contrary was placed by the aliens to convince you otherwise.

ze_topazio
12-12-2015, 12:36 AM
Those pesky aliens must be in cahoots with Tintin.

I-Like-Pie45
12-12-2015, 04:08 AM
Talk to Milou, only he knows the truth that has fallen upon the blind eyes and deaf ears of the feeble men who have been enveloped by the alien manipulations of the First Civilization!

SunderedStar
12-12-2015, 06:19 AM
You should play MSGV. The game is a modern stealth game that is only about guns if you screw up and don't stealth well enough. Yes, you get silencesd sniper rifles and such, and you can be REALLY effective with said guns, but the core of the game is stealth, close encounters. The idea that assassins creed games can't move into modern times seems silly when you consider what has been done. Also consider games like arkham knight and the like.