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View Full Version : SPITTED PORK SIZZLING



gkll
05-22-2004, 01:45 AM
I mean the sizzling is the sound of
brit brains frying
and the spit is porked

Historically it was known as a good turnfighter.

Oh well - who knows what stuff is being fiddled with between patches.

The overall FM could be so complex that each patch is a series of guesses about what the changes are doing. That would explain a lot. Mainly it would explain why there are all sorts of anomalies with patch to patch revisions. They tweak some underlying flight model function, which applies to all planes, and it has all sorts of unintended consequences on individual planes.

The record is astounding - planes are all over the map between patches, always have been. Price you pay for complexity.

Back to sizzling Brit spits, in pits.

Fix the spit.

gkll
05-22-2004, 01:45 AM
I mean the sizzling is the sound of
brit brains frying
and the spit is porked

Historically it was known as a good turnfighter.

Oh well - who knows what stuff is being fiddled with between patches.

The overall FM could be so complex that each patch is a series of guesses about what the changes are doing. That would explain a lot. Mainly it would explain why there are all sorts of anomalies with patch to patch revisions. They tweak some underlying flight model function, which applies to all planes, and it has all sorts of unintended consequences on individual planes.

The record is astounding - planes are all over the map between patches, always have been. Price you pay for complexity.

Back to sizzling Brit spits, in pits.

Fix the spit.

DuxCorvan
05-22-2004, 01:59 AM
Spitfires I & II were good turnfighters. Spitfire V was just one common turnfighter, and Mk.IX was mostly used as BnZ fighter.

As they were faster, their ability to sustain tight turns was poorer.

Read books instead of attending myths. Hurricane was a far better turnfighter and a better gun platform, but Spitfire had a better overall performance.

BTW, Spitfire V was lame against 190 and other pure BnZ fighters. That's why they changed phylosophy with Spit IX, sacrificing manoeuver abilities for speed. They knew the future was for bouncing fighters.

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

ColoradoBBQ
05-22-2004, 02:04 AM
The XI variants are still very good turn fighters. I've won turning fights vs the late 109 variants and Ki-84s.

gkll
05-22-2004, 02:20 AM
yeah I have read a lot of stuff on the spit, Dux. It has good wing loading in all versions and was a turnfighter in all years - everyone else got fatter too. And it was already posted that the physics favor a IX over a g2, as well as pilot reports.

Just because pilots were taught to bnz that doesn't mean anything - the IX could do that too, and it is definitely the best way to get kills in RL. So is it tactics or planes you're talking?

HH Quazi
05-22-2004, 02:36 AM
The start of another controversial thread. Oh, well, that seems to be all alot us want to do and/or be a part of by posting to them, like me.

All I want to say is this isn't some 'romper room' game or 'paint by number' picture where when you paint outside the lines it changes the color of the other beside it. Each ac in FB has its' own parameters contained within its' own boundaries. A change in one dosen't necessarily spill over into another unless it is written to do so. There are areas of this sim where changes in one aspect does changes another. Such as the climate. When it rains, the humidity goes up and that affects ac performance. But it is all controlled. Everything is written in code. It's a computer game. Nothing happens unless it is written to do so. You could say every change made is deliberate. Meant to be, for whatever reason. And that is where a little trust comes into play. Oleg is the man with the numbers and the research. And I will trust his calculations based soley on the end result, the best sim out there, anywhere.

Fact is alot of work has gone into this patch and I believe they got it right because they were not in any rush to release it. It took nearly three months from the release of AEP. Complexity is a part of it, that is why the patch wasn't released long before now.

Personally, I don't think it could have been done any better. And why even complain a little about it. Instead just appreciate their efforts. That would go alot farther.

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/nightschpanker/QuasiPOWsmall.jpg

gkll
05-22-2004, 02:57 AM
"Each ac in FB has its' own parameters contained within its' own boundaries."

Well this is true Quazzie if there is not really a FM at all - like Warbirds. If you just have a table for each plane, and there is no real physics modelling, just curves modelling climbrate turnrate, turnrate=F(speed) etc etc then they would be separate.

But if you have a generalized plane which you model the physics on, and then have separate parameters for each plane like weight, wing conformation etc etc, then fiddling with the physics model effects all planes. However only 1c knows really....

As for the rest it is already up to page 4 on a separate thread I notice. I;ll go read that one, they'll get to turn rate eventually if they haven't already.

LeadSpitter_
05-22-2004, 07:10 AM
the spit is an excellent turn fighter, you people need to mess with your joystick settings.

the spit cant out turn the 109 f and g easy and they are the best turn fighters along with the yaks

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

arcadeace
05-22-2004, 08:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
the spit is an excellent turn fighter, you people need to mess with your joystick settings.

the spit cant out turn the 109 f and g easy and they are the best turn fighters along with the yaks
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've flown the IX extensively and it can match them, which is pretty good. And the Vb is better.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/222_1082457373_222_1082441075_airaces.jpg

Elite_Gizz
05-22-2004, 08:10 AM
it still kill sme how so manny piots think the spit is the ultimate turning fighter, it was good yes but it didnt turn 109's inside out, if you want to do that hop in a I-16, also i see so many spit pilots slow down for tighter turns when they have a 190 on there 6 in the hope they will shake him, the 109 seems to handle low speed turns pretty well ....(this is IMO from the spit side, i never fly the 109) the spit will do better in a mid speed turn were the 109 seems to struggle a little more to keep up the turn radius of the spit i duno if anyone else thinks the same but thats what i have found..

last night i had a 109 locked on to my 6 after the usual dance of death i pulled into a tight right hand break i saw the 109 break low and right and met me half way with about 5 cannon shells http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif, thats what ya get for under estimating ya enemy lol.

as regards the patch i think they have got the spit and cane pretty well sorted, the spit seems more sloppy in the air now for some reason, but responsive, while the hurricane is sollid in the air but not so responsive on the controlls, and biggy for me is that the haricane mk1 has some real guns now, i epect these were tweaked because there are deadly at close range imo..

Best Regards

Gizz
"CO" =Elite=

Platypus_1.JaVA
05-22-2004, 08:30 AM
Yep, the spit feels okay to me too. Somehow, I think they made the .303's stronger or, I shoot better. That's good also http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

Placed 3rd, with team, in the official european championship Il-2/FB

jada002
05-22-2004, 10:57 AM
&gt;the spit is an excellent turn fighter, you people need to mess with your joystick settings.

&gt;the spit cant out turn the 109 f and g easy and they are the best turn fighters along with the &gt;yaks


Ehmm i beg to differ, try to outturn a 109G-2 in any spit ! I would love to see you outturn that with ease. Its pretty even. Your statement that its easy to outurn a 109 in a spit is - well to use a term that suits your "with ease": Bull****. If you ask me the 109G-2 outturn the spit in the vertical and its about even in the horizontal. If its correct or not in terms of flight model and historical accuracy - well dont know. Never flown ither. If you talk about the other models of the 109G-6 n so forth yea, some spits outturn it, but never with ease.