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cawatrooper9
12-02-2015, 05:16 PM
Lately, I've been wondering how the various protagonists of the games would view each other's works, attitudes, and philosophies. Since they're all Assassins, you'd think they'd all be pretty much in agreement- but I'm not totally sure now. Here's my guesses- feel free to add your own! This is really just to act as a springboard for conversations on this topic, anyway, it's definitely not the definitive list by any means.

Altair
Deep mutual respect for Ezio.
Relates with Connor and Aveline's struggle, and admires their rebuilding of the brotherhood.
Sympathizes with Haytham's views for peace, but vehemently opposes his desire for control.
Admires and relates to Edward's journey of joining the Assassins.
He'd see the importance of freeing slaves, but would think Adewale's quest for the box should be his priority.
Hates Arno.
He'd actually think Shay was justified, though he'd grieve the fall of the American brotherhood.
He'd adore Evie, and find Shay amusing but that would get old fast.

Ezio
Deep mutual respect for Altair
Finds Connor very off-putting, though he admires his quest to help his people
He'd probably hit on Aveline.
Actually really likes Edward- though he's glad he gave up pirating to join the Assassins.
Would butt heads with Adewale, despite the fact that he views the man's work with helping slaves as of paramount importance.
Hates Arno
He'd probably kill Shay and Haytham.
He'd probably not like Jacob- they're both too Type A to get along.
He'd probably hit on Evie.

Connor

He probably views Altair as the ultimate role model when rebuilding his own brotherhood.
He'd actually probably very much dislike Ezio and his nonsense- though he might appreciate ACR era Ezio's wisdom.
Well, I guess he did meet Aveline- I think they were just glad to have another Assassin in the country.
We all know how he feels about Haytham.
Sadly, I think he'd hate Edward- he'd never forgive him for what he did as a pirate, even after joining the Assassins
He'd relate a lot with Addie, actually.
Hates Arno.
Personally, I think he'd agree with Shay's actions. Connor's allegiance seems to be more with the people's good than the Assassins.
He'd absolutely hate Jacob's attitude, but I think he'd appreciate his fight for the people.
He'd like Evie, but wouldn't understand why she prioritized finding the POEs so much.

Haytham
Somehow, I think he'd really respect Altair
Not sure if he'd also respect Ezio, or see him as a fool
We sort of know how he feels about Connor- but I think he's more proud than he lets on
I think he'd just be frustrated with Aveline
I bet source details how he feels about Edward, but I bet Haytham has some pretty serious daddy issues.
He'd view Adewale as incredibly naive.
Hates Arno.
Seems to think Shay is the golden child- though conveniently forgets about him during the Revolution.
Absolutely hates Jacob.
Indifferent toward Evie.


Aveline
Basically worships Altair and Ezio
Seems inspired by Connor
She'd kill Haytham and Shay, given the chance
I think she'd appreciate Edward far more than Connor would
She'd also really like Adewale and his work with the Assassins
Hates Arno
I think she'd get along well with the twins

Edward
Admires Altair
I think he would sort of have a rivalry with Ezio, but it would be one of those one sided rivalries where Ezio doesn't even know about it.
He'd be so proud of Connor- even though Connor likely is ashamed of his granddad.
I think he'd be pretty proud of Haytham too, in a different way- though he'd still regret his son's decisions.
He'd like Aveline's work.
He and Addie were total bros.
Hates Arno.
I think he'd get along well with the twins- Jacob's joking nature would appeal to him, and Evie's quest for POEs would relate to him (plus, he has no problem with women on his ship)

Adewale
Admires Altair, Ezio, Aveline, and Connor
Hates Haytham- but, out of respect for Edward, I don't think he'd personally kill him
Feels that Edward is wasted potential (but glad once he joins the Assassins)
Hates Arno
Wouldn't mind getting revenge on Shay
I don't think he and the twins would really have all that much in common


Arno

Admires Ezio, Altair, Connor, Aveline, Adewale, Evie, Jacob, Haytham, Shay and Edward

Shay
I think he has this "Golden Age of Assassins" view (much like many fans) where he'd really admire Altair and Ezio
He'd also appreciate Jacob and Evie's work
He'd relate with Connor's struggles since they were often with humanitarian intentions, even though he was a fully fledged Templar at the time.
Haytham is his role model, I guess
He'd view Aveline as just another target
Edward would basically be Exhibit A of what he hates about the Assassins.
Scratch that, Edward is Exhibit B. Arno is Exhibit A.


Jacob
Like everyone else, he'd adore Altair.
He'd like Ezio, even though the feeling may not be mutual.
He'd REALLY like Connor and Adewale, though that feeling definitely isn't mutual (largely why he likes them so much, to annoy them).
He'd relate to Edward a lot
He'd be kind of bored by Aveline and Haytham.
He'd make fun of Shay's "I make my own luck" catchphrase a lot.
Hates Arno
Loves Evie like a sister


Evie
Like everyone else, she'd adore Altair.
She'd like Ezio, but she'd kick him in the groin if he hit on her. Remember, she hates balls.
She'd love to talk with Connor, Addie, and Aveline to learn about their experiences.
She has a certain pride in being from London, much like the great Master Assassin Kenway.
She'd really, really dislike Haytham and Shay- she'd probably try to kill them.
Hates Arno.
Loves Jacob like a sister :rolleyes:

VestigialLlama4
12-02-2015, 05:57 PM
Lately, I've been wondering how the various protagonists of the games would view each other's works, attitudes, and philosophies. Since they're all Assassins, you'd think they'd all be pretty much in agreement- but I'm not totally sure now.

I am starting to feel bad for Arno since he's the guy who likes all the other Assassins but he's universally hated by everyone.

I think it would be more like this:
Altair
Likes - Connor, Adewale, Evie Frye (Altair likes English chicks after all), Revelations Ezio.
Neutral - Aveline, Edward, Arno Dorian.
Dislikes - Shay (betraying the Brotherhood is something Altair feels strongly about, he executed two people for that by his own hand), Haytham, Jacob Frye.
- The only Templars Altair has time for are those he can potentially sleep with which is why he and Arno would get along better than you think. Likewise Altair respected kings like Richard the Lionheart so he might understand why Arno is friends with Napoleon and the French monarchy.
- As for Jacob Frye, I think Altair would have issues with the anti-intellectualism of that guy and that he thinks being an Assassin is a chance to be his own adventure hero. Altair will make him Malik's assistant for a month and address him as "Novice".

Ezio
Likes - Altair (well we know for a fact that Ezio likes him), Edward, Connor, Aveline
Neutral - Connor, Arno Dorian, Evie Frye.
Dislikes - Haytham, Shay, Jacob Frye.
-I think Ezio would dislike Jacob's anti-intellectualism. Ezio was a cultured man, he knew his Dante and classics well and kept up to speed with developments in Renaissance Painting. As for Evie, well Ezio will see her as another Claudia Auditore.
- Ezio will hate Haytham because becoming a b-tch to the guy who murdered your Dad and sold your sister into slavery is the complete opposite of everything he believes and stands for.

Connor
Likes - Come on this is Connor he likes everyone and hates no one. Even Shay Cormac, if they met Connor wouldn't hesitate to sink his tomahawk into that traitor's skull but he will feel bad about it.
Neutral - Having said that I think he would be neutral towards Ezio and Arno.
- Connor would find that Ezio being an aristocratic Italian guy is a little too much like Haytham for him to relate with. So there might be issues there. But Ezio, unlike Haytham, isn't a snob so they would get along eventually.
- Arno well, Connor would find the fact that the guy doesn't have any care for his people or the revolution disturbing. He would relate to the whole Assassin-Templar thing but Connor who beat the dream of royalty out of George Washington wouldn't be caught dead with a royalist for longer than he has to.

Edward
Likes - Ezio (of course), Haytham (whatever else, he is Edward's son), Connor (for his sailing skills alone), Jacob. We know that he likes Adewale a great deal.
Neutral - Altair ("All frowns and furrowed brows), Aveline, Evie Frye.
Dislikes - Shay and Arno Dorian.
- I think Edward has a woman problem. He forbade his own daughter Jenny from becoming an Assassin while deciding that Haytham will recieve the great Assassin destiny. Yeah he fought alongside Mary Read and Anne Bonny but I think Edward's idea of a man is to protect his women and he sees his failure as the fact that he let Caroline and Mary Read down. So I don't think Edward would be okay with women assassins.
- Edward would see Shay as Hornigold Part 2: Electric Boogaloo...aka sellout. Arno Dorian would be a posh-git in his eyes and considering that Edward called King George a parasite, he would subscribe to the Pierre Bellec interpretation of the French Revolution.

Adewale
Likes - Altair, Connor, Evie Frye.
Neutral - Ezio
Dislikes - Shay and Haytham (we know for a fact that he hates them and calls the latter a family disgrace). Arno Dorian (the whole upholding French monarchy aka the-institute-who-brought-slavery to Haiti thing).

Arno Dorian
Likes - Ezio, Jacob Frye.
Neutral - Altair, Connor, Evie Frye.
Dislikes - Shay and Haytham, Edward.
Shay because of the whole I-killed-your-Dad thing, Haytham because guilt-by-association, Edward would remind Arno too much of Pierre Bellec, uncouth rabble.

Jacob Frye
Likes - Edward, Ezio, Arno.
Neutral - Altair, Connor, Adewale
Dislikes - Shay, Haytham
Jacob would be the only one who relates to Arno killing Pierre Bellec.

Evie Frye
Likes - Altair, Connor, Adewale, Arno.
Neutral - Ezio, Edward.
Dislikes - Shay and Haytham.

So there, the Frye Twins like Arno.

Assassin_M
12-02-2015, 05:58 PM
Lol, everyone hates Arno.



Altair
Deep mutual respect for Ezio.
Relates with Connor and Aveline's struggle, and admires their rebuilding of the brotherhood.
Sympathizes with Haytham's views for peace, but vehemently opposes his desire for control.
Admires and relates to Edward's journey of joining the Assassins.
He'd see the importance of freeing slaves, but would think Adewale's quest for the box should be his priority.
Hates Arno.
He'd actually think Shay was justified, though he'd grieve the fall of the American brotherhood.
He'd adore Evie, and find Shay amusing but that would get old fast.
I actually don't think Altair would relate with Aveline and Connor all that much. Aveline doubted the brotherhood a lot throughout her arc in liberation and it seems was the same way but he dealt with that by trusting his own judgement, an advice that he'd give to Aveline. Altair, on the other hand, never had such doubts, he was completely and utterly convinced of the Creed's mission and purpose, as he knew nothing else.

I also don't think Altair would view the box as a priority with Adewale. Remember, his whole arc in ACR is about seeing enough for one life, lamenting the fact that the Apple consumed him for so long.

He wouldn't hate Arno. I think it'd by the type of relationship where Bellec comes in and complains about Arno and Altair would laugh it off, saying he's being too hard on the young boy.

Nothing justifies Shay's childish tantrum. Plot induced miscommunication is the worst type of plot because it could have easily been avoided :nonchalance:

Yeah, I think Evie would remind him of Maria and be like the daughter he never had.



Ezio
Deep mutual respect for Altair
Finds Connor very off-putting, though he admires his quest to help his people
He'd probably hit on Aveline.
Actually really likes Edward- though he's glad he gave up pirating to join the Assassins.
Would butt heads with Adewale, despite the fact that he views the man's work with helping slaves as of paramount importance.
Hates Arno
He'd probably kill Shay and Haytham.
He'd probably not like Jacob- they're both too Type A to get along.
He'd probably hit on Evie.

I'm just gonna disagree with him hitting on every female :p

I don't think he'd find Connor off-putting. Ezio got along with many stoic and serious characters. I think they'd get along well and tell each other stories about their experiences with the ones who came before. They are the prophet and guardian, after all. I think Ezio would tell him to retire and start a family, though.

He'd probably not understand Aveline's struggle with doubting the methods of the Assassins, as he never doubted the Assassins himself.

I think he'd berate Edward for staying with the Assassins after starting a family as it could endanger their lives.

Arno would be the guy on the bench before Ezio died.

He'd think Jacob is too much of a joker, since Ezio is an old grump now.



Connor

He probably views Altair as the ultimate role model when rebuilding his own brotherhood.
He'd actually probably very much dislike Ezio and his nonsense- though he might appreciate ACR era Ezio's wisdom.
Well, I guess he did meet Aveline- I think they were just glad to have another Assassin in the country.
We all know how he feels about Haytham.
Sadly, I think he'd hate Edward- he'd never forgive him for what he did as a pirate, even after joining the Assassins
He'd relate a lot with Addie, actually.
Hates Arno.
Personally, I think he'd agree with Shay's actions. Connor's allegiance seems to be more with the people's good than the Assassins.
He'd absolutely hate Jacob's attitude, but I think he'd appreciate his fight for the people.
He'd like Evie, but wouldn't understand why she prioritized finding the POEs so much.

I don't think Connor would dislike any Assassin, especially not Ezio, since their journeys share a lot of similarities. Contrary to what Achilles thought, I think Connor would have very much liked a ceremony for his induction into the brotherhood. He seems to be the type to appreciate and respect tradition, history and noble work.

Nah, he'd never hate Edward. He speaks fondly of him to Faulkner in the tyranny DLC and sure, he was a pirate, but he was a free man out for himself. I think that's something Connor would respect.

He'd be bros with Ade, much as his grand father and mentor were.

He'd see his young impatient self in Arno and offer him advice on multiple matters.

No, he'll think Shay is an idiot for throwing a childish tantrum and not discussing matters with Achilles like an adult.



Haytham
Somehow, I think he'd really respect Altair
Not sure if he'd also respect Ezio, or see him as a fool
We sort of know how he feels about Connor- but I think he's more proud than he lets on
I think he'd just be frustrated with Aveline
I bet source details how he feels about Edward, but I bet Haytham has some pretty serious daddy issues.
He'd view Adewale as incredibly naive.
Hates Arno.
Seems to think Shay is the golden child- though conveniently forgets about him during the Revolution.
Absolutely hates Jacob.
Indifferent toward Evie.


I think he already does, misconstrued as it is. His speech about how the Assassins fought for a more noble goal, which is peace, is likely referring to Altair.

He'd use Arno's love for Elise to try and recruit him into the Order.

I think he'd hate the twins equally.




Aveline
Basically worships Altair and Ezio
Seems inspired by Connor
She'd kill Haytham and Shay, given the chance
I think she'd appreciate Edward far more than Connor would
She'd also really like Adewale and his work with the Assassins
Hates Arno
I think she'd get along well with the twins

I think she'd relate a lot with Arno, since they both initially viewed the Assassins as a means to their goals.

I think her and Evie would talk a lot about liking co-workers.



Edward
Admires Altair
I think he would sort of have a rivalry with Ezio, but it would be one of those one sided rivalries where Ezio doesn't even know about it.
He'd be so proud of Connor- even though Connor likely is ashamed of his granddad.
I think he'd be pretty proud of Haytham too, in a different way- though he'd still regret his son's decisions.
He'd like Aveline's work.
He and Addie were total bros.
Hates Arno.
I think he'd get along well with the twins- Jacob's joking nature would appeal to him, and Evie's quest for POEs would relate to him (plus, he has no problem with women on his ship)

No Shay? He'll think he's an idiot for throwing a childish tantrum and killing his best mate.



Adewale
Admires Altair, Ezio, Aveline, and Connor
Hates Haytham- but, out of respect for Edward, I don't think he'd personally kill him
Feels that Edward is wasted potential (but glad once he joins the Assassins)
Hates Arno
Wouldn't mind getting revenge on Shay
I don't think he and the twins would really have all that much in common

I think Ade comes to respect Edward deeply by the time Edward is killed.

Yeah, I think he'd be indifferent towards Arno, Jacob and Evie, even though Evie probably admires him a lot.





Arno

Admires Ezio, Altair, Connor, Aveline, Adewale, Evie, Jacob, Haytham, Shay and Edward
LOL



Shay
I think he has this "Golden Age of Assassins" view (much like many fans) where he'd really admire Altair and Ezio
He'd also appreciate Jacob and Evie's work
He'd relate with Connor's struggles since they were often with humanitarian intentions, even though he was a fully fledged Templar at the time.
Haytham is his role model, I guess
He'd view Aveline as just another target
Edward would basically be Exhibit A of what he hates about the Assassins.
Scratch that, Edward is Exhibit B. Arno is Exhibit A.
I totally don't think he'd appreciate the work of Evie and Jacob. They utilized the same methods that the colonial Assassins did to control NY.

I think he'd try to sway Arno to join the Templars.



Jacob
Like everyone else, he'd adore Altair.
He'd like Ezio, even though the feeling may not be mutual.
He'd REALLY like Connor and Adewale, though that feeling definitely isn't mutual (largely why he likes them so much, to annoy them).
He'd relate to Edward a lot
He'd be kind of bored by Aveline and Haytham.
He'd make fun of Shay's "I make my own luck" catchphrase a lot.
Hates Arno
Loves Evie like a sister

I think he'd view Ade, Connor, Ezio and Altair as odd, grumpy blokes.

He'd think Shay is an idiot for throwing a childish tantrum.

He'd get a long well with Arno, I think. I see them both getting wasted in some ditch.




Evie
Like everyone else, she'd adore Altair.
She'd like Ezio, but she'd kick him in the groin if he hit on her. Remember, she hates balls.
She'd love to talk with Connor, Addie, and Aveline to learn about their experiences.
She has a certain pride in being from London, much like the great Master Assassin Kenway.
She'd really, really dislike Haytham and Shay- she'd probably try to kill them.
Hates Arno.
Loves Jacob like a sister :rolleyes:

She'd probably fangirl at meeting all the past Assassins, except Arno. He's relatively new.

BananaBlighter
12-02-2015, 06:06 PM
Poor Arno :(

Agree with a lot, some bits not so much, but I don't have as much time and dedication as you guys for making such long posts lol! :p

cawatrooper9
12-02-2015, 06:20 PM
Lol, everyone hates Arno.




I am starting to feel bad for Arno since he's the guy who likes all the other Assassins but he's universally hated by everyone.


Yeah... Honestly, I think they'd all think he was selfish and had bad motivations. I don't actually think he'd necessarily like everyone else, but he's such a bland character that I didn't really know how to get in his head to be honest.



- The only Templars Altair has time for are those he can potentially sleep with which is why he and Arno would get along better than you think. Likewise Altair respected kings like Richard the Lionheart so he might understand why Arno is friends with Napoleon and the French monarchy.
Fair points.


I don't think Connor would dislike any Assassin, especially not Ezio, since their journeys share a lot of similarities. Contrary to what Achilles thought, I think Connor would have very much liked a ceremony for his induction into the brotherhood. He seems to be the type to appreciate and respect tradition, history and noble work.


Come on this is Connor he likes everyone and hates no one.
Haha, your interpretations of Connor are very different from mine.



I think Edward has a woman problem. He forbade his own daughter Jenny from becoming an Assassin while deciding that Haytham will recieve the great Assassin destiny. Yeah he fought alongside Mary Read and Anne Bonny but I think Edward's idea of a man is to protect his women and he sees his failure as the fact that he let Caroline and Mary Read down. So I don't think Edward would be okay with women assassins.
Interesting analysis, and one that I think has some merit- though I'm not sure if even the developers necessarily intended it.




Jacob would be the only one who relates to Arno killing Pierre Bellec.
I suppose that makes sense, somewhat similar to Roth. Is that the only reasoning for the twins liking Arno, though?


Altair, on the other hand, never had such doubts, he was completely and utterly convinced of the Creed's mission and purpose, as he knew nothing else.
You don't think Altair had doubts? Personally, I think he had plenty- but the tests that his faith in the brotherhood went through only served to strengthen his resolve (in a way, like Aveline). But yeah, I was more going for the fact that Aveline and Connor did a lot to rebuild their brotherhoods, much like Altair.



I think he'd berate Edward for staying with the Assassins after starting a family as it could endanger their lives.
Ah, good point. And he'd be right, too...


I totally don't think he'd appreciate the work of Evie and Jacob. They utilized the same methods that the colonial Assassins did to control NY.

Good point, not sure why I thought that.


I think he'd try to sway Arno to join the Templars.


Haha, much like Haytham as well. I get the feeling that the rest of the Assassins are probably like "Go ahead, take him!" :p

LoyalACFan
12-02-2015, 07:15 PM
I think Edward has a woman problem. He forbade his own daughter Jenny from becoming an Assassin while deciding that Haytham will recieve the great Assassin destiny. Yeah he fought alongside Mary Read and Anne Bonny but I think Edward's idea of a man is to protect his women and he sees his failure as the fact that he let Caroline and Mary Read down. So I don't think Edward would be okay with women assassins.

Yeah, I've noticed this too. I think it's mostly because Edward was originally created as a generic, stuffy British gentleman in Forsaken, and his character was retconned all to hell with AC4 by making him a proto-libertarian pirate. I think the best way to reconcile his refusal to let his daughter be an Assassin with his previous admiration for female fighters is to say that he wouldn't let her become an Assassin, not because she was a girl, but because he felt guilty and overprotective of her since he bailed on her mother.

VestigialLlama4
12-02-2015, 07:27 PM
Yeah, I've noticed this too. I think it's mostly because Edward was originally created as a generic, stuffy British gentleman in Forsaken, and his character was retconned all to hell with AC4 by making him a proto-libertarian pirate. I think the best way to reconcile his refusal to let his daughter be an Assassin with his previous admiration for female fighters is to say that he wouldn't let her become an Assassin, not because she was a girl, but because he felt guilty and overprotective of her since he bailed on her mother.

Nah. It's perfectly consistent to fight alongside women and be a sexist. Edward will be like, "Mary died in childbirth and Anne Bonny died giving birth. If they had good men to marry and protect them, they'd still be alive...from now on I'll do that, I'll be a family man and make sure my daughter is raised the right way with a baby brother to protect her." The fact is sexism isn't some one-dimensional thing, it can be more subtle and come from paternalism as well. Compare how Edward treated Jenny with how Evie's father treated her.

cawatrooper9
12-02-2015, 07:47 PM
Yeah, I've noticed this too. I think it's mostly because Edward was originally created as a generic, stuffy British gentleman in Forsaken, and his character was retconned all to hell with AC4 by making him a proto-libertarian pirate. I think the best way to reconcile his refusal to let his daughter be an Assassin with his previous admiration for female fighters is to say that he wouldn't let her become an Assassin, not because she was a girl, but because he felt guilty and overprotective of her since he bailed on her mother.


Nah. It's perfectly consistent to fight alongside women and be a sexist. Edward will be like, "Mary died in childbirth and Anne Bonny died giving birth. If they had good men to marry and protect them, they'd still be alive...from now on I'll do that, I'll be a family man and make sure my daughter is raised the right way with a baby brother to protect her." The fact is sexism isn't some one-dimensional thing, it can be more subtle and come from paternalism as well. Compare how Edward treated Jenny with how Evie's father treated her.

Both valid theories. I don't think we can say for certain one way or the other. I definitely get that Edward feels pretty guilty about not being there for Jen when she was younger... but it's totally possible that it stemmed from some chauvinism as well. I'm not sure it's fair to compare Edward and Jenny with Evie and her father though, people process and react to things in a wide variety of ways, you can't expect it to all be the same.

Namikaze_17
12-02-2015, 07:49 PM
Alta´r would deeply admire or be extremely sour at Evie for breaking his record.

cawatrooper9
12-02-2015, 08:14 PM
Alta´r would deeply admire or be extremely sour at Evie for breaking his record.

Sorry, this might be a stupid question, but you do you mean by "his record"?

Namikaze_17
12-02-2015, 08:25 PM
Sorry, this might be a stupid question, but you do you mean by "his record"?

The youngest age when granted the rank of Master Assassin.

Evie obtained hers at 21, while Alta´r did it at 23 or something.

I doubt Alta´r even noticed or cares, but it is an impressive feat indeed.

Assassin_M
12-02-2015, 08:28 PM
Sorry, this might be a stupid question, but you do you mean by "his record"?
Him being youngest Master Assassin. And technically, Jacob is the one who broke it since he's 4 minutes younger :p

I'm actually kind of salty about that too.

cawatrooper9
12-02-2015, 08:29 PM
The youngest age when granted the rank of Master Assassin.

Evie obtained hers at 21, while Alta´r did it at 23 or something.

I doubt Alta´r even noticed or cares, but it is an impressive feat indeed.

Him being youngest Master Assassin. And technically, Jacob is the one who broke it since he's 4 minutes younger :p

I'm actually kind of salty about that too.

Ahhh, interesting. I didn't know about that.

LoyalACFan
12-02-2015, 11:15 PM
Nah. It's perfectly consistent to fight alongside women and be a sexist. Edward will be like, "Mary died in childbirth and Anne Bonny died giving birth. If they had good men to marry and protect them, they'd still be alive...from now on I'll do that, I'll be a family man and make sure my daughter is raised the right way with a baby brother to protect her." The fact is sexism isn't some one-dimensional thing, it can be more subtle and come from paternalism as well. Compare how Edward treated Jenny with how Evie's father treated her.

I dunno. He wasn't opposed to women fighting even after Mary died, since he brought Anne along with him as backup during the last run to the Observatory, and later suggested that she should stay with the Assassins. At any rate, Edward is leagues more progressive on sex equality than an 18th-century Welshman has any right to be, even before he was exposed to Assassin philosophy.

VestigialLlama4
12-03-2015, 04:49 AM
I dunno. He wasn't opposed to women fighting even after Mary died, since he brought Anne along with him as backup during the last run to the Observatory, and later suggested that she should stay with the Assassins. At any rate, Edward is leagues more progressive on sex equality than an 18th-century Welshman has any right to be, even before he was exposed to Assassin philosophy.

Again, pay attention, Edward tells Anne Bonny to stay near him, he tells her to stay outside the Observatory and Anne Bonny doesn't actually fight alongside him once in the entire game (which Adewale does). I am not saying that Edward is a sexist but there's definitely stuff in the game to point in that direction. I am quite sure that if Forsaken was written after Black Flag (and to be honest it should never have been written), they would change and alter some of the issues. I think Jenny would likely die in that attack on the house saving Haytham or something.

Compare Edward to Ezio who is a huge macho lothario yet he recruited women into the Assassins and treated them equally and professionally. Ezio also fought beside women many times. Connor treats Myriam the Hunter and that one Assassin girl in New York fairly.

CrossedEagle
12-03-2015, 05:07 AM
I feel like Arno and Altair could bond over loving a Templar, or former Templar in Altair's case.

Poor Arno. I know he came from a glitchy game and Unity's story was crushed under the weight of everything they were trying to do, but he wasn't a horrible person.

D.I.D.
12-03-2015, 04:57 PM
I don't see why all these characters would hate Arno, any more than they'd hate Hideout Assassin #29. I don't think they'd have much of an opinion of him either way.

We shouldn't see every one of these characters as legends, or we're going to be stuck with a very specific kind of story where every person has to be his/her game's unequivocal hero and/or Moses. Arno's just a guy in the Paris order who had been forgotten until Shaun, Rebecca and Bishop's spotlight fell on him. It's only if you have to see every protag as a Master Assassin of huge importance that you have to imagine the biggest characters finding other disappointing.


I feel like Arno and Altair could bond over loving a Templar, or former Templar in Altair's case.

Poor Arno. I know he came from a glitchy game and Unity's story was crushed under the weight of everything they were trying to do, but he wasn't a horrible person.

Neither of them were ever Templars.

[edit] Aaaand malfunction. For some reason I misread "loving" as "being" and thought we were talking about the men. Oops.

cawatrooper9
12-03-2015, 05:46 PM
I don't see why all these characters would hate Arno, any more than they'd hate Hideout Assassin #29. I don't think they'd have much of an opinion of him either way.

We shouldn't see every one of these characters as legends, or we're going to be stuck with a very specific kind of story where every person has to be his/her game's unequivocal hero and/or Moses. Arno's just a guy in the Paris order who had been forgotten until Shaun, Rebecca and Bishop's spotlight fell on him. It's only if you have to see every protag as a Master Assassin of huge importance that you have to imagine the biggest characters finding other disappointing.


Well, it was a bit of a joke, but as I explained, I think almost any of the Assassins would dislike Arno for how he put his love of Elise before the brotherhood and before the common good. They might be sympathetic toward that, but they wouldn't agree with his choice.

And I totally agree that we need to steer away from legends. Ezio was the Prophet, Altair was the Mentor, Connor the Guardian, even Edward was a master Assassin. Unity and Syndicate's portrayals of important figures (yet ones that may not reach the pantheon of AC legend) is a double edged sword- it preserves the importance of some of the most important characters in the series, while making the more recent games seem like footnotes.

Which is why I think having a different protagonist in every single game is a formula that cannot sustain itself forever.

Ureh
12-03-2015, 06:42 PM
Neither of them were ever Templars.

Maria was a templar in AC1 right? And Elise was trained to be a Templar and meant to succeed her father. I haven't read the novels so I probably missed something.

pacmanate
12-03-2015, 07:13 PM
Edward would pee on Conr

I-Like-Pie45
12-03-2015, 07:17 PM
Edward would pee on Conr

not really

edwards welsh not irish, and connor looks like a potato not a sheep so I don't see how he'd be enticed to do so

D.I.D.
12-03-2015, 08:51 PM
Maria was a templar in AC1 right? And Elise was trained to be a Templar and meant to succeed her father. I haven't read the novels so I probably missed something.

I completely misread your post, sorry!

CrossedEagle
12-03-2015, 10:00 PM
Neither of them were ever Templars.

[edit] Aaaand malfunction. For some reason I misread "loving" as "being" and thought we were talking about the men. Oops.

It's all good. It was late when I typed that, perhaps I could have been more clear.