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View Full Version : I just ran some speed tests and im not impressed.



Maple_Tiger
01-19-2004, 02:28 PM
I just ran some speeds tests on three aircraft, the P-51, La7 and Mig3U.

The La7 and Mig3U were able to reach there top speeds at alt and sea level without over heating. I used Default Amo and 100% fuel.

Should not the P-51 also be able to reach its top speed at alt with Default Amo and 100% fuel? Be nice if it could.

Or are just the Russion planes alowd to reach there top speed with full fuel load and amo?

Maple_Tiger
01-19-2004, 02:28 PM
I just ran some speeds tests on three aircraft, the P-51, La7 and Mig3U.

The La7 and Mig3U were able to reach there top speeds at alt and sea level without over heating. I used Default Amo and 100% fuel.

Should not the P-51 also be able to reach its top speed at alt with Default Amo and 100% fuel? Be nice if it could.

Or are just the Russion planes alowd to reach there top speed with full fuel load and amo?

SUPERAEREO
01-19-2004, 02:35 PM
Could it be because the P-51 fully loaded carried a massive 1018 litres of fuel?

Korolov
01-19-2004, 02:38 PM
Well I assume you were using TAS, but it'd be helpful to know what altitude you were at for the tests.

BTW, some info:
La-7 top speed 680kmh (423mph) at 5800m
MiG-3U top speed 707kmh (439mph) at 7100m
P-51 top speed 703kmh (437mph) at 7625m

Use those altitudes when testing and then come back and tell us what the results were.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Maple_Tiger
01-19-2004, 03:20 PM
In the objects vewer it says.

Mig-3U Sea level 551kmh TAS. At alt 7800m 660kmh TAS. not 707kmh TAS http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

La7 Sea level 612kmh TAS. At alt 6000m 680kmh TAS.

Yes, i was able to reach these speeds with the Mig3U and La7 at Sea level and at alt.


P-51 at 7620m 703kmh TAS. But does this mean with 100% fuel and Amo?

I can reach 680kmh TAS at 7620m with 100% fuel and amo but the engine over heats at like 670kmh TAS lol.

With 50% fuel and amo i reached 684kmh TAS at 7620m.

with 25% fuel and amo i reached 694kmh TAS, but i had to over heat the engine for over two min.

JG26Red
01-19-2004, 03:23 PM
rut ro, here comes the porked 51 conspiracy stuff again... sigh...

Maple_Tiger
01-19-2004, 03:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:
rut ro, here comes the porked 51 conspiracy stuff again... sigh...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I started this thread because i was not impressed. Not becuase I think the P-51 is Porked.

No where in my thread did i say any such thing as Porked or under modeled.

I simply want to know why the La7 and Mig-3U can reach there top speads with amo and 100% fuel without over heating. I also want to know why the P-51 has to be over heated to even get close to its top speed.

Any one have a good answer?

Like i said, i just want to know why.

Gibbage1
01-19-2004, 04:51 PM
The P-51's engine is geared for high alt performance, were the La-7 is geared for low alt. I think the Mig-3U is high alt, but not as high as the P-51. The earlier P-51's like the B and C also had better performance all around. Remember. The P-51 was a flying fuel tank compaired too the La-7 and Mig-3. The two soviet aircraft also had a better HP/weight ratio. The fact that it can even compete at all is a testimony too its design.

Gib

Korolov
01-19-2004, 04:56 PM
My answer - poor high altitude modeling + high altitude fighters = poor high altitude fighters.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Bull_dog_
01-19-2004, 05:09 PM
Ahhh...

All of the aircraft, I believe are work in progress, with several iterations and improvements with every patch. I agree that both the stang and jug are slower than advertised in FB...I'm only hoping this will be corrected.

I believe that if you can reach top speed in an La-7 and not in a P-51 then that is the way it is and that is how it was programmed. I only hope this is corrected.

This may be over simplified and I don't choose to engage in conspiracy theories...only that there is improvements to be made in the flight modeling of most aircraft and I hope the improvement continues as I really dislike being caught from behind when I fly a Jug or stang...especially from a Ki-84 or Fw-190A series who's top speed at that altitude is less than the aformentioned aircraft.

The one explanation that I hear quite often that sends shivers through me is where the test data comes from. If Oleg makes a statement like: "the Jug's role rate is correct according to our data" then I know it is not likely to be improved. I have not heard that with regard to speed so I am hopeful.

One thing I'll say is that the La series and Mig series have been around in the form of IL-2 for a lot longer than some other aircraft so it is possible the flight models are more polished and accurate. Yet it still puzzles me that speed would be off as I would think this would be one of the easier attributes to model vs. flight handling, pitch, stall and some of those other less concrete characteristics...

I don't think anyone other than Oleg can offer the logic or lack there of in why the aircraft are the way they are...we can all speculate and I really enjoy reading and participating in the debate but the aircraft are what they are.

I do hope though, that we get a stang that flys 437mph and a Jug that flys 428 with good roll rate and enormous dive speed, accelaration and zoom climb...but most importantly I hope that these improvements are made with the add-on and that Oleg models that P-38, Spits, and Tempest/Typhoon up to their potential....I feel really good about the P-40 now and contrary to many opinions I like the modeling of the P-39's as well. I don't fly the LW planes enough to have an opinion worth sharing only that I know on the recieving end...they are fast...most of the time faster than my favorite planes.

SlickStick
01-19-2004, 06:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bull_dog_:
Ahhh...

All of the aircraft, I believe are work in progress, with several iterations and improvements with every patch. I agree that both the stang and jug are slower than advertised in FB...I'm only hoping this will be corrected.

I believe that if you can reach top speed in an La-7 and not in a P-51 then that is the way it is and that is how it was programmed. I only hope this is corrected.

This may be over simplified and I don't choose to engage in conspiracy theories...only that there is improvements to be made in the flight modeling of most aircraft and I hope the improvement continues as I really dislike being caught from behind when I fly a Jug or stang...especially from a Ki-84 or Fw-190A series who's top speed at that altitude is less than the aformentioned aircraft.

The one explanation that I hear quite often that sends shivers through me is where the test data comes from. If Oleg makes a statement like: "the Jug's role rate is correct according to our data" then I know it is not likely to be improved. I have not heard that with regard to speed so I am hopeful.

One thing I'll say is that the La series and Mig series have been around in the form of IL-2 for a lot longer than some other aircraft so it is possible the flight models are more polished and accurate. Yet it still puzzles me that speed would be off as I would think this would be one of the easier attributes to model vs. flight handling, pitch, stall and some of those other less concrete characteristics...

I don't think anyone other than Oleg can offer the logic or lack there of in why the aircraft are the way they are...we can all speculate and I really enjoy reading and participating in the debate but the aircraft are what they are.

I do hope though, that we get a stang that flys 437mph and a Jug that flys 428 with good roll rate and enormous dive speed, accelaration and zoom climb...but most importantly I hope that these improvements are made with the add-on and that Oleg models that P-38, Spits, and Tempest/Typhoon up to their potential....I feel really good about the P-40 now and contrary to many opinions I like the modeling of the P-39's as well. I don't fly the LW planes enough to have an opinion worth sharing only that I know on the recieving end...they are fast...most of the time faster than my favorite planes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice read, Bull_Dog. I also agree that the American planes must be able to reach their top speeds and also must be able to make use of the same characteristics that helped them be so successful in WWII.

The dive speed, dive accel, zoom climb and roll were the factors that allowed the American pilots in P38s, for example, to take out better turning planes like the Zero and Ki-84. And as countless writings and data have shown, the P47 was acclaimed for each of those parameters you mentioned.

Yet, the 47's a bit sluggish to get going in a dive, roll has been proven too slow and it just doesn't feel like it wants to go fast. Like something is holding it back. Just speculation on my part of course, but I'll have to put more time in to see. These American planes used B and Z the same way the LW did.

Speaking of which and while we're talking about speed, the dive speed of LW birds in this game is scary. I've never looked at any real numbers before, but most of those late-model 109s and FWs can dive damned near 100km/h faster than any Russian plane in this game, save the rocket.

The LA7 (2-SHVAK) falls apart at 710, the 3xB20 at 740km/h and I don't remember any other planes at the moment, but I can't even remember the last time I went 740km/h in a Yak or P39.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As you wrote about, the planes that have been in the game since the beginning have become refined and tweaked over the past two years and I also believe that all the planes will always be looked at and adjusted as necessary, when more data becomes available.

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Maple_Tiger
01-19-2004, 07:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
My answer - poor high altitude modeling + high altitude fighters = poor high altitude fighters.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point Korolov and Gibbage.

p1ngu666
01-19-2004, 08:03 PM
must admit, id like a plane i can chase down 190s with
190s are a smidge faster

Jaws2002
01-19-2004, 08:17 PM
Fw-190 is loosing parts at around 900 km/h. Is it uber?????
La-7 turns 360 degrees in less then 14 seconds. Is it uber????? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jaws2002
01-19-2004, 08:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
must admit, id like a plane i can chase down 190s with
190s are a smidge faster<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
----------------------------------------
Pony is faster than all the fw's. It just needs longer to get the speed.

robban75
01-19-2004, 08:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I do hope though, that we get a stang that flys 437mph and a Jug that flys 428 with good roll rate and enormous dive speed, accelaration and zoom climb<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The P-47 has an enormous divespeed, it can outdive every other prop in the game. It really lacks in zoom climb though. Interestingly enough many planes in FB has the same zoom performance. For instance, set up a QMB, start at 1000m and accelerate to around 535/540km/h, then climb straight up, measure altitude reached when TAS shows 50km/h. I can tell you right now that the best zoomers in the game are the Ki-84, La-4 and the Bf 109K-4. The D-9, Yak-3 and P-51 being equal. Another funny thing is that since the Zero is unable to reach that airspeed at 1000m, I zoomed it at 460km/h instead and it came about 100m from the altitude reached by the D-9 and P-51.

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

TheGozr
01-19-2004, 11:35 PM
La-4 ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-GOZR
"TheMotorheads" All for One and One for All (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/)