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Fatal-Feit
11-26-2015, 06:02 PM
http://blog.ubi.com/for-honor-what-we-learned-from-player-feedback/ Everything is copied and pasted from here.

''Since the announcement of For Honor at E3 2015, thousands of players have tried the game at different events such as Gamescom and PAX. Those events were a tremendous opportunity for us to introduce the game and receive interesting comments about the experience.


For Honor


In the interest of gathering even more feedback on our core gameplay mechanics, we recently invited a limited number of players to a closed alpha on PC.


It was a great opportunity to find out what they already like, and what they’d want us to improve in the months to come. Their experience included a very small work-in-progress slice of the final experience (two Heroes, one multiplayer mode, three maps), but their input has already identified three interesting points.


LEARNING CURVE


For Honor is a sword-fighting fantasy for everyone, so making our game accessible is one of our top priorities. We also want For Honor to have long-term appeal, so we want to create enough depth and content to keep players engaged for as long as possible. It’s paramount that we manage to build a true easy-to-learn/hard-to-master experience that will please new and seasoned players alike.


For Honor


Obviously, the development team has been playing For Honor for quite some time already, so we thought we’d have to hold back when fighting “regular” players, but we were happily mistaken. That’s confirmed by all the data we gathered: Most players grasped the basics quickly (according to a forum poll created specifically for alpha users, 56.61% of players found that learning how to fight was either very easy, somewhat easy or just right), but at the same time a majority of them also felt that they were improving and getting better the more they played. More than three out of four players polled felt that their fighting skills were improving over time.


Many players also found that dealing with several opponents at the same time was pretty challenging. This was reinforced by Dominion being a team-based mode that rewards players who work together and are able to outnumber their enemies. The team is already working on new features and mechanics that will make lopsided fights easier to handle without undermining efficient teamwork.


BALANCING


While we continue to develop the campaign, this alpha was focused solely on multiplayer gameplay and when it comes to multiplayer, balancing is key. Our challenge with balancing is that the multiplayer’s mix of skill-based melee combat and team tactics makes it very much its own beast, so we can’t rely on pre-existing rules and design practices. The playable mode in our closed alpha was Dominion, a 4v4 objective-based mode featuring NPCs, and it was a good testing ground for how our multiplayer components work together on a larger scale.


For Honor


What we found is that we’re on the right track here: the three playable maps were already well balanced, with 51% victories for the Attackers and 49% for the Defenders on the Citadel Gate map; 52% Attackers/48% Defenders for the Overwatch map; and 45%/55% on the Sanctuary Bridge map. It’s reassuring, especially for our level design team, as it proves that their approach to creating our multiplayer maps fosters the balanced experience we’re aiming for.


DIVERSITY


During the closed alpha, players could try out two Heroes: The Warden, part of the Legion faction, and the Oni, part of the Chosen faction. We will have many more playable Heroes at launch, but the closed alpha was a good opportunity to check if those two are perceived as different enough from each other. Here again, the data and feedback from the players tells us we’re in the right spot. In the post-alpha survey, 89.04% of respondents agreed that playing as the swift, offense-driven Oni felt like a different experience than the more all-around, defense-capable Warden.


For Honor


Another great thing we learned from this closed alpha is that we have a growing community of fans that are passionate about the game we’re creating. We have been amazed by the positivity and the motivation of our closed alpha testers, and we can’t wait to put For Honor in the hands of more players.''

Written by ours truly, SpaceElephant (http://forums.ubi.com/member.php/1256655-SpaceElephant).

WYRDB0Y
11-26-2015, 09:25 PM
Thanks for posting this!

It's good to see the feedback matched their expectations pretty much,
gives me confidence that I can trust that this game will be well done.

I'm foremost happy about the combat system not needing any dumbing down and also about the maps being well balanced.

There's also new info I didn't know, there were 3 maps in the alpha? Good to know!

Fatal-Feit
11-27-2015, 06:13 AM
Thanks for posting this!

It's good to see the feedback matched their expectations pretty much,
gives me confidence that I can trust that this game will be well done.

I'm foremost happy about the combat system not needing any dumbing down and also about the maps being well balanced.

There's also new info I didn't know, there were 3 maps in the alpha? Good to know!

You are very welcome. It's good to see you again, WYRDB0Y. :)

The maps were fantastic. I didn't expect 3 maps either. Each of the new ones were just as detailed and rich as the one we've all seen in the demo. The second one included pitfall traps where you can toss enemies off and the third one had trapped gates you can trigger to kill unsuspecting enemies heading towards your capture point..

MisterWillow
11-27-2015, 06:48 AM
Allow me to express my appreciation, admiration, optimism and yet utmost envy.


Obviously, the development team has been playing For Honor for quite some time already, so we thought we’d have to hold back when fighting “regular” players, but we were happily mistaken. That’s confirmed by all the data we gathered: Most players grasped the basics quickly (according to a forum poll created specifically for alpha users, 56.61% of players found that learning how to fight was either very easy, somewhat easy or just right), but at the same time a majority of them also felt that they were improving and getting better the more they played. More than three out of four players polled felt that their fighting skills were improving over time.

That is the sort of information that REALLY makes me happy. It points to the staying power of the fighting system, as well as the ease in which new players can be introduced into the player base several months (or even years) after launch and not feel completely put off by it.


Many players also found that dealing with several opponents at the same time was pretty challenging. This was reinforced by Dominion being a team-based mode that rewards players who work together and are able to outnumber their enemies. The team is already working on new features and mechanics that will make lopsided fights easier to handle without undermining efficient teamwork.


I feel like that's going to be a very delicate balancing act. I mean, fighting two people should be challenging, but it would be a mistake, I think, for it to be an automatic death sentence---and I've yet to see a piece of footage where one person won a two-on-one fight. But perhaps that will come with experience. For now, I'm not quite sure I like that they're thinking about tweaking something like this.


What we found is that we’re on the right track here: the three playable maps were already well balanced, with 51% victories for the Attackers and 49% for the Defenders on the Citadel Gate map; 52% Attackers/48% Defenders for the Overwatch map; and 45%/55% on the Sanctuary Bridge map. It’s reassuring, especially for our level design team, as it proves that their approach to creating our multiplayer maps fosters the balanced experience we’re aiming for.

While the numbers are great, I can't help but be excited for more maps!!

Can't wait to see what they look like.


During the closed alpha, players could try out two Heroes: The Warden, part of the Legion faction, and the Oni, part of the Chosen faction. We will have many more playable Heroes at launch, but the closed alpha was a good opportunity to check if those two are perceived as different enough from each other. Here again, the data and feedback from the players tells us we’re in the right spot. In the post-alpha survey, 89.04% of respondents agreed that playing as the swift, offense-driven Oni felt like a different experience than the more all-around, defense-capable Warden.


That's good to hear. I was a bit worried when I saw a few posts early on complaining that, basically, the Oni seemed faster, but was more or less a re-skin of the Warden.


Another great thing we learned from this closed alpha is that we have a growing community of fans that are passionate about the game we’re creating. We have been amazed by the positivity and the motivation of our closed alpha testers, and we can’t wait to put For Honor in the hands of more players.''


Any idea on when that might be? Because I can't wait any more!!


Written by ours truly, SpaceElephant (http://forums.ubi.com/member.php/1256655-SpaceElephant).

Thanks again. :D

WYRDB0Y
11-27-2015, 02:37 PM
You are very welcome. It's good to see you again, WYRDB0Y. :)

The maps were fantastic. I didn't expect 3 maps either. Each of the new ones were just as detailed and rich as the one we've all seen in the demo. The second one included pitfall traps where you can toss enemies off and the third one had trapped gates you can trigger to kill unsuspecting enemies heading towards your capture point..

I tend to lurk around here every once in a few days looking for new posts, but not much is happening, I guess the discussions are now on the test forums.
It's good to see you too, I felt like you left some time ago.

Wooow, those sound really cool, different nuances on every map to change up the playstyle.

I still have hope that they'd make a mode similar to Assault in UT or Rush in Battlefield, where you progress through a map by completing objectives as the attackers, thus having a changing battlefield throughout the course of a match.

premiumart
11-27-2015, 05:29 PM
I feel like that's going to be a very delicate balancing act. I mean, fighting two people should be challenging, but it would be a mistake, I think, for it to be an automatic death sentence---and I've yet to see a piece of footage where one person won a two-on-one fight. But perhaps that will come with experience. For now, I'm not quite sure I like that they're thinking about tweaking something like this.


Any idea on when that might be? Because I can't wait any more!!


Thanks again. :D

On the other hand people hadnt had that much time to play. Even in a FPS game 2 vs 1 can be hard to pull off, also you d need basic knowledge of the possible incomming attacks.

The wait is even worse when you totally missed alpha XD like me.

DraxeI
11-27-2015, 07:50 PM
It feels good to know that we're being listened to and making a difference in the development.

I think they summarized everything pretty well.

Fatal-Feit
11-27-2015, 10:46 PM
I feel like that's going to be a very delicate balancing act. I mean, fighting two people should be challenging, but it would be a mistake, I think, for it to be an automatic death sentence---and I've yet to see a piece of footage where one person won a two-on-one fight. But perhaps that will come with experience. For now, I'm not quite sure I like that they're thinking about tweaking something like this.

Mhm. From what I've played and seen, it HAS been an automatic death sentence since there's no way to counter multiple enemies and succeed besides running away and hoping to god a teammate will flank them. I think the only time I came out victorious was because one of the guys were already at 1 health bar so a single heavy attack took him out. But it was hardly 2v1 then.

Even the best players could not take on multiple enemies. And when I say best, I mean those guys with a K/D of like 12/1s. So I'm really happy to hear they are working on this because it's probably the only real downside of the closed alpha, so far.


That's good to hear. I was a bit worried when I saw a few posts early on complaining that, basically, the Oni seemed faster, but was more or less a re-skin of the Warden.

Yeah, at first they felt similar because of the whole AOB system at its core, but they are very distinct and completely changes your tactics. With a Warden, I'm more open to tanking, using heavy attacks, and throwing enemies off platforms, but with the Oni, I'm more about being tactical with their speed and dashing around the enemies and spamming the lunging counter attack to confuse them (forgot the name of it, but the Oni basically takes a leap backwards and uses a charging attack). I don't know about those guys, but there was a tremendous difference for me.

Something that may have not been discussed are that the areas do play a big role in combat. If you're an Oni and you're fighting a Warden, stay the hell away from locations where they can toss you off. :p


I tend to lurk around here every once in a few days looking for new posts, but not much is happening, I guess the discussions are now on the test forums.
It's good to see you too, I felt like you left some time ago.

Yeah, the forum has been quiet... But I'm back and I'm going to try and keep the discussions going. :)

MisterWillow
11-27-2015, 11:42 PM
On the other hand people hadnt had that much time to play. Even in a FPS game 2 vs 1 can be hard to pull off, also you d need basic knowledge of the possible incomming attacks.

That's what I mean about it being a possible learning experience. However, from every bit of footage I've seen (and what Fatal-Feit said), there isn't an effective way of countering and/or attacking multiple opponents. It seems that you can stay alive if you're good at blocking, but there doesn't seem to be an effective way of fighting back, so you're on perpetual defense until a teammate arrives to help you out.


The wait is even worse when you totally missed alpha XD like me.

I know!! I'm on PS4 only, so I wasn't even eligible for the alpha. Hopefully the beta (which I presume will include consoles) will come soon. ;)


Mhm. From what I've played and seen, it HAS been an automatic death sentence since there's no way to counter multiple enemies and succeed besides running away and hoping to god a teammate will flank them. I think the only time I came out victorious was because one of the guys were already at 1 health bar so a single heavy attack took him out. But it was hardly 2v1 then.

Even the best players could not take on multiple enemies. And when I say best, I mean those guys with a K/D of like 12/1s. So I'm really happy to hear they are working on this because it's probably the only real downside of the closed alpha, so far.

In writing that bit above to premiumart, I was thinking that it could also be a Hero/class issue. Perhaps the two Hero/classes we've seen just aren't that great at dealing with multiple opponents, but there are ones that are---say, Hero/classes with polearms---that we just haven't seen yet.

Regardless, it's nice to know that this is really the only mechanical problem. It speaks volumes for their control system.


Yeah, at first they felt similar because of the whole AOB system at its core, but they are very distinct and completely changes your tactics. With a Warden, I'm more open to tanking, using heavy attacks, and throwing enemies off platforms, but with the Oni, I'm more about being tactical with their speed and dashing around the enemies and spamming the lunging counter attack to confuse them (forgot the name of it, but the Oni basically takes a leap backwards and uses a charging attack). I don't know about those guys, but there was a tremendous difference for me.

I've seen that in footage and was wondering if that was specific to the Oni, since I noticed the Warden didn't ever do anything like that. Is it like a dash attack?


Something that may have not been discussed are that the areas do play a big role in combat. If you're an Oni and you're fighting a Warden, stay the hell away from locations where they can toss you off. :p

Good to know...

WYRDB0Y
11-28-2015, 12:08 AM
Something that may have not been discussed are that the areas do play a big role in combat. If you're an Oni and you're fighting a Warden, stay the hell away from locations where they can toss you off. :p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgvXnDuvj-g&t=4m17s

And what about this move? Is this viable, or is the grab unblockable and thus you should minimize the chances of being thrown off?

Fatal-Feit
11-28-2015, 12:24 AM
I know!! I'm on PS4 only, so I wasn't even eligible for the alpha. Hopefully the beta (which I presume will include consoles) will come soon. ;)
Please let the beta be for all platforms, Ubisoft. :)

The discussions will be so much better once everyone active here have tried the game.



In writing that bit above to premiumart, I was thinking that it could also be a Hero/class issue. Perhaps the two Hero/classes we've seen just aren't that great at dealing with multiple opponents, but there are ones that are---say, Hero/classes with polearms---that we just haven't seen yet.

I forgot to mention, if you press both triggers at the same time, you will perform a wide swing that hits all enemies near you. IIRC, it's meant to help with 2v1, but so far it have only been useful against fodders since it drains a lot of stamina (which runs out pretty quickly and is another disadvantage in lopsided fights). That seems like an attack heroes with naginatas and perhaps polearms would take full advantage of. I imagine they would have increased distance and reduced stamina when they use it.


I've seen that in footage and was wondering if that was specific to the Oni, since I noticed the Warden didn't ever do anything like that. Is it like a dash attack?

It's specific to the Oni, yep. You perform it by pressing the dodge/side step button which is X or A depending on which controller you use and holding on to the heavy attack trigger. The direction it attacks depends on which left or right stance you were in prior to charging it. It's sort of like another counter since it goes through any enemy attacks. It's a great way of disorienting the enemy because you attack their side, so they take a second or two to adjust after the blow (9/10 times, I get a free heavy attack after it). It's quick, easy to pull off and arguably the most deadly move of the Oni.

Now that I think about it again, it's one of those attacks that really bridge the gap between balance and OP...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgvXnDuvj-g&t=4m17s

And what about this move? Is this viable, or is the grab unblockable and thus you should minimize the chances of being thrown off?

The grab can be blocked just like the Warden's. It's generally used to avoid getting knocked off of platforms, not the other way around. xD That scene was very staged. Notice how LadyAnn did half of the job herself.

coma987
11-28-2015, 12:33 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgvXnDuvj-g&t=4m17s

And what about this move? Is this viable, or is the grab unblockable and thus you should minimize the chances of being thrown off?

Thing about the warden is that he can push you around. While the Oni re positions himself. So the fall has to be behind you for the oni to be able to push you of. No more info from me cuz I don't know how strict the NDA is.

Fatal-Feit
11-28-2015, 12:37 AM
Thing about the warden is that he can push you around. While the Oni re positions himself. So the fall has to be behind you for the oni to be able to push you of. No more info from me cuz I don't know how strict the NDA is.

You can speak descriptively about the closed alpha all you want on the official forum. However, the most you can say outside of the forum is that you participated and whether or not you enjoyed/liked it.

WYRDB0Y
11-28-2015, 12:51 AM
Wait, I don't understand, I was talking about the Warden grab which AFAIK can be used to push you off (that's why you said you should avoid ledges?) and whether it's unblockable or not.
Is that move in the video the Oni's version of that throw?

Yes it looks a bit staged haha!

Fatal-Feit
11-28-2015, 12:59 AM
Wait, I don't understand, I was talking about the Warden grab which AFAIK can be used to push you off (that's why you said you should avoid ledges?) and whether it's unblockable or not.
Is that move in the video the Oni's version of that throw?

Yes it looks a bit staged haha!

Ah! Yes. The Oni and Warden have their own version of grab. The Oni's grab repositions himself like in the video whereas the Warden throws the enemy. In case this part confused anyone, the Oni knocked the Warden off with a light attack, not a throw.

WYRDB0Y
11-28-2015, 01:08 AM
Ah! Yes. The Oni and Warden have their own version of grab. The Oni's grab repositions himself like in the video whereas the Warden throws the enemy. In case this part confused anyone, the Oni knocked the Warden off with a light attack, not a throw.

Thanks!
What's also interesting is that the Oni can either kick the enemy away or flip over to the other side, are they both the same move (done in a different direction I guess)?
Does the Warden different moves like that?

I've seen these moves since the beginning, but never thought about the difference they make on classes, it's gonna be great if all classes get unique moves like these.

Fatal-Feit
11-28-2015, 01:28 AM
What's also interesting is that the Oni can either kick the enemy away or flip over to the other side, are they both the same move (done in a different direction I guess)?
Does the Warden different moves like that?

Hm... I just reviewed the video and I don't remember the kick being usable. I remember a group of us Onis were in an area with a lot of pitfalls and the Wardens completely massacred us because tossing was only accessible to them. May someone else who've played the closed alpha confirm for me? Or a mod maybe? It could have been a removed feature, but I'm not certain. I could be wrong. =O

The Warden grabs enemies with his/her hand and toss them the direction the player choose. The Oni has a bit more variety in terms of animation.


I've seen these moves since the beginning, but never thought about the difference they make on classes, it's gonna be great if all classes get unique moves like these.

Yeah, there's actually a surprising amount of depth and difference between the two heroes. I'm quite surprise there are players who felt they were too similar. At its core, they both are using the AOB system, but every aspect of it is distinct. For example, the Oni can only temporarily block a side whereas the Warden can hold it forever. Dodging an attack on with the Oni gives him/her a free swift attack unlike the Warden. And they each have their own unique mesh of combos.

Willaguy2010
11-28-2015, 02:16 AM
Maybe with a shield defending against two or more players would be easier. I know in one of the articles or videos they posted they said that the dev team's best defensive player could hold off 3 enemies at once for a good while.


Hm... I just reviewed the video and I don't remember the kick being usable. I remember a group of us Onis were in an area with a lot of pitfalls and the Wardens completely massacred us because tossing was only accessible to them. May someone else who've played the closed alpha confirm for me? Or a mod maybe? It could have been a removed feature, but I'm not certain. I could be wrong. =O

The Warden grabs enemies with his/her hand and toss them the direction the player choose. The Oni has a bit more variety in terms of animation.



Yeah, there's actually a surprising amount of depth and difference between the two heroes. I'm quite surprise there are players who felt they were too similar. At its core, they both are using the AOB system, but every aspect of it is distinct. For example, the Oni can only temporarily block a side whereas the Warden can hold it forever. Dodging an attack on with the Oni gives him/her a free swift attack unlike the Warden. And they each have their own unique mesh of combos.

In the demo I played at PAX Prime one of the devs taught me how to kick someone off of a ledge by double tapping the guard break button, maybe that's the kick that you've seen in the video.

MisterWillow
11-28-2015, 03:22 AM
The discussions will be so much better once everyone active here have tried the game.

Yes... yes it will.


I forgot to mention, if you press both triggers at the same time, you will perform a wide swing that hits all enemies near you.

O_O

That sounds like it would be very helpful.


IIRC, it's meant to help with 2v1, but so far it have only been useful against fodders since it drains a lot of stamina (which runs out pretty quickly and is another disadvantage in lopsided fights). That seems like an attack heroes with naginatas and perhaps polearms would take full advantage of. I imagine they would have increased distance and reduced stamina when they use it.

Wait... there's stamina? How did I miss that bit of information?

How much does that play into combat, outside of that specific manoeuvre?


It's specific to the Oni, yep. You perform it by pressing the dodge/side step button which is X or A depending on which controller you use and holding on to the heavy attack trigger. The direction it attacks depends on which left or right stance you were in prior to charging it. It's sort of like another counter since it goes through any enemy attacks. It's a great way of disorienting the enemy because you attack their side, so they take a second or two to adjust after the blow (9/10 times, I get a free heavy attack after it). It's quick, easy to pull off and arguably the most deadly move of the Oni.

Now that I think about it again, it's one of those attacks that really bridge the gap between balance and OP...

I could be wrong, especially from my position of having not played it, but as long as you can block it I don't think it should be considered OP. It's just something that'll keep you on your toes if you're fighting Samurai. All part of strategy and faction differentiation. ;)


I've seen these moves since the beginning, but never thought about the difference they make on classes, it's gonna be great if all classes get unique moves like these.

It makes me even more curious about the Vikings...


Yeah, there's actually a surprising amount of depth and difference between the two heroes. I'm quite surprise there are players who felt they were too similar. At its core, they both are using the AOB system, but every aspect of it is distinct. For example, the Oni can only temporarily block a side whereas the Warden can hold it forever. Dodging an attack on with the Oni gives him/her a free swift attack unlike the Warden. And they each have their own unique mesh of combos.

So that's why the Oni seems to have a 'neutral' stance (where the sword is basically held basically at the crotch, but then moves it whenever a direction is pressed). Interesting. I imagine that could be used to play head games with your opponent.


Maybe with a shield defending against two or more players would be easier. I know in one of the articles or videos they posted they said that the dev team's best defensive player could hold off 3 enemies at once for a good while.

Given the differences in just these two Hero/classes, I'm really excited to see the others. The shield bearing Knight and shield bearing Viking could operate in at least a moderately different way and require different tactics to use properly and/or defeat.

premiumart
11-29-2015, 05:04 PM
Please let the beta be for all platforms, Ubisoft. :)





I think usually there are tests on all platforms just to be sure. I mean there were games with problems specific to certain consoles, so actual testing would make sense.




The discussions will be so much better once everyone active here have tried the game.




Amen to that. All i know about this games are legends, myths and rumors. :D

premiumart
11-29-2015, 05:18 PM
Wait... there's stamina? How did I miss that bit of information?

How much does that play into combat, outside of that specific manoeuvre?




Good question. The more you learn about this game the more questions you have. And there are people who already know a little what they are talking about.






It makes me even more curious about the Vikings...





I see Headbutts comin.... maybe :D would be a bit silly though.





So that's why the Oni seems to have a 'neutral' stance (where the sword is basically held basically at the crotch, but then moves it whenever a direction is pressed). Interesting. I imagine that could be used to play head games with your opponent.





Indeed, i already play mindgames in shooters, but standing directly infront of your foe adds a whole new level. he....he....he







Given the differences in just these two Hero/classes, I'm really excited to see the others. The shield bearing Knight and shield bearing Viking could operate in at least a moderately different way and require different tactics to use properly and/or defeat.

Well considering how a flail is different from a sword i would assume so. XD When you keep in mind that these classe need to be balanced they might not be as easy to play as it seems since they might not have a good range to their attacks and also lack power.

Fatal-Feit
11-29-2015, 09:44 PM
In the demo I played at PAX Prime one of the devs taught me how to kick someone off of a ledge by double tapping the guard break button, maybe that's the kick that you've seen in the video.

It should be, but for some reason, I couldn't execute that. Is it simply double tapping the guard break button with NO direction on the analog? THAT would explain a lot. xD


Wait... there's stamina? How did I miss that bit of information?

How much does that play into combat, outside of that specific manoeuvre?

Yes, there is stamina. I think it was just introduced in the closed alpha, so don't worry about not knowing about it.

Stamina has multiple bars like health and it plays an important role in the combat. You need it to perform attacks and stuff. It's generally what helps keeps players from spamming and going Leeroy Jenkins on everyone. It really helped kept people from farming fodders too quickly as well. IIRC, running, rolling, dodging, blocking, and a handful of other stuff don't drain stamina.

Players can see each other's stamina bar so it's an extra addition to the combat. i.e When an opponent runs out of stamina, that gives you a chance to become offensive with no repercussion.


I could be wrong, especially from my position of having not played it, but as long as you can block it I don't think it should be considered OP. It's just something that'll keep you on your toes if you're fighting Samurai. All part of strategy and faction differentiation. ;)

Mhm. At first, it's very tricky to go up against because it can really confuse you, but it's defendable once you get adapted to it. I played better as a Warden and I was able to comfortably kill Onis once I fully understood how they played. Left or right is what you predominantly need to worry about when fighting them.


So that's why the Oni seems to have a 'neutral' stance (where the sword is basically held basically at the crotch, but then moves it whenever a direction is pressed). Interesting. I imagine that could be used to play head games with your opponent.

It really makes you ponder about how other heroes will play. Other heroes in the same factions could follow a similar formula or maybe they all will be different. And then there's the Vikings. I'm SUPER curious about how they defend. The fact that they haven't shown anything could mean that they are incredibly different from the other two factions.

MisterWillow
11-30-2015, 04:54 AM
Good question. The more you learn about this game the more questions you have. And there are people who already know a little what they are talking about.

Yep. I don't think I've ever followed the development of a game as closely as I've followed this one, simple because of all the little intricacies and nuances that comes from the mechanics. And given how little we know about the other Hero/classes, not to mention an entire faction (which is to say, nothing), we're barely getting started.


I see Headbutts comin.... maybe :D would be a bit silly though.

A bit... but things like that are what make Vikings fun. :p

p.s. I really want headbutts in combat somewhere...


Well considering how a flail is different from a sword i would assume so. XD When you keep in mind that these classe need to be balanced they might not be as easy to play as it seems since they might not have a good range to their attacks and also lack power.

I actually meant that they could use their shields differently. One could have a shield charge, where the other could parry more easily. Things like that.

I think you're right, though, about them probably having less power overall. Although, I have to imagine the shield-Knight is going to be much stronger---in terms of damage---than the shield-Viking, considering how devastating a flail is. But then, the shield-Viking could be slightly faster, more nimble, or have combos incorporating the shield---strike with it, then the weapon---that the shield-Knight does not. Who knows?


Yes, there is stamina. I think it was just introduced in the closed alpha, so don't worry about not knowing about it.

Stamina has multiple bars like health and it plays an important role in the combat. You need it to perform attacks and stuff. It's generally what helps keeps players from spamming and going Leeroy Jenkins on everyone. It really helped kept people from farming fodders too quickly as well. IIRC, running, rolling, dodging, blocking, and a handful of other stuff don't drain stamina.

Players can see each other's stamina bar so it's an extra addition to the combat. i.e When an opponent runs out of stamina, that gives you a chance to become offensive with no repercussion.

You know, now that I think about it, all (or most) of the footage that's been released seemed to be just that---two players constantly spamming attacks at each other. This seems like that one layer of strategy that was missing (even though it looked great already), especially if dodges and blocks don't drain it (or drain it very little/slowly).

For some reason, I was about to get worried that they were adding too many variables, but that sounds like a fantastic addition, both from a mechanical perspective and a realism angle.


It really makes you ponder about how other heroes will play. Other heroes in the same factions could follow a similar formula or maybe they all will be different. And then there's the Vikings. I'm SUPER curious about how they defend. The fact that they haven't shown anything could mean that they are incredibly different from the other two factions.

I'm super curious about them in general (if that wasn't obvious already). I want to know how they move, their attacks, if axes will behave differently than swords, their Feats, etc.

But I'm also deeply interested in the other factions, and their other Hero/classes. It's going to be so fun to talk strategy once everyone's been revealed. :D

Fatal-Feit
11-30-2015, 08:35 PM
You know, now that I think about it, all (or most) of the footage that's been released seemed to be just that---two players constantly spamming attacks at each other. This seems like that one layer of strategy that was missing (even though it looked great already), especially if dodges and blocks don't drain it (or drain it very little/slowly).

For some reason, I was about to get worried that they were adding too many variables, but that sounds like a fantastic addition, both from a mechanical perspective and a realism angle.

Absolutely. I think it could use a bit more tweaking in its current state, but so far it's a completely welcome feature. Because it creates limitations, it allows the devs to add more variety of attacks with less consequences like the one I mentioned.

premiumart
12-05-2015, 05:37 PM
Yep. I don't think I've ever followed the development of a game as closely as I've followed this one, simple because of all the little intricacies and nuances that comes from the mechanics. And given how little we know about the other Hero/classes, not to mention an entire faction (which is to say, nothing), we're barely getting started.





I cant remember when i was that active on forums for an upcomming game, probably never. Also the complexity is starting to worry me, more nuanced problems arent fun. XD





A bit... but things like that are what make Vikings fun. :p

p.s. I really want headbutts in combat somewhere...




deep down inside a secret litle part of me wants to see it too thats why i brought it up ; )




I'm super curious about them in general (if that wasn't obvious already). I want to know how they move, their attacks, if axes will behave differently than swords, their Feats, etc.

But I'm also deeply interested in the other factions, and their other Hero/classes. It's going to be so fun to talk strategy once everyone's been revealed.




I hope axes arent as complex as in monster hunter where i realized after being very bad at it that there is a whole sublevel of longswords that deal different amounts of damage depending on what part of the blade hits the target. :confused:


Also guys about the "getting ganged up on"-problem, how about forming teams ? ;)

Remember your fellow active forum guys care as much about for honor as you do. XD

Easy Solution .

Fatal-Feit
12-06-2015, 04:49 AM
Also guys about the "getting ganged up on"-problem, how about forming teams ? ;)

Remember your fellow active forum guys care as much about for honor as you do. XD

Easy Solution .

Hehe. Speaking of which, we should def form our own clans here when we get more info. :)

Maybe even create a single clan that spans on all 3 platforms.

premiumart
12-06-2015, 08:48 PM
Hehe. Speaking of which, we should def form our own clans here when we get more info. :)

Maybe even create a single clan that spans on all 3 platforms.

We got plenty of time and the most active members here will probably be active in the game, also we are already deeply invested in the game. XD

Willaguy2010
12-07-2015, 04:03 AM
We got plenty of time and the most active members here will probably be active in the game, also we are already deeply invested in the game. XD

Sounds good to me.

MisterWillow
12-07-2015, 05:15 AM
Sounds good to me.

Me too. :D

premiumart
12-08-2015, 10:48 AM
I look forward to meet all of you on the battlefield, well at least those i can meet since i play on ps4 . :(

To all ps 4 warriors lets show em that there good gamers on consoles aswell not just pc :cool:


If possible i might visit pc beta.

P.S. MisterWillow if you need a shield brother for plundering and looting i think im able to channel some berserker rage. ;)

Fatal-Feit
12-09-2015, 03:14 AM
Picking up another copy for the PS4 to play with you guys wouldn't be a bad idea if cross-platform doesn't happen. :)

MisterWillow
12-09-2015, 05:29 AM
I look forward to meet all of you on the battlefield, well at least those i can meet since i play on ps4 . :(

To all ps 4 warriors lets show em that there good gamers on consoles aswell not just pc :cool:


If possible i might visit pc beta.

P.S. MisterWillow if you need a shield brother for plundering and looting i think im able to channel some berserker rage. ;)


Picking up another copy for the PS4 to play with you guys wouldn't be a bad idea if cross-platform doesn't happen. :)

Everyone to the Mead Hall!!!!!!!!

handheld brando
12-09-2015, 08:48 AM
It feels good to know that we're being listened to and making a difference in the development.

I think they summarized everything pretty well.

The best thing about this is alot of us alpha players advice was really taken into consideration. They touched on the 1v2 battles and how difficult they are. It was pretty unanimous amongst us that 1v2s should be really difficult but there should be a chance.

premiumart
12-09-2015, 05:23 PM
Picking up another copy for the PS4 to play with you guys wouldn't be a bad idea if cross-platform doesn't happen. :)

Wow that would be epic. ;)

dervishness
01-11-2016, 05:11 PM
Why is the "learning curve" and accessibility so important?

When I hear those two words in the context of a video game that has, max, 8 control inputs, what I hear is:

"We want to level the playing field so that beginners have a chance to kill experts."

Hope they haven't turned sword combat into this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRW6_7PtdhY

But it looks like a cognitive flexibility game--three options + match the stimulus, with no tactics or other degrees of freedom. its been boiled down to the point where intelligence or skill has zero effect assuming you've got a similar number of reps in the game. (And I bet the time to convergence of ability, in terms of reps, is close to 100, much like the Lumosity game I linked to. That means that, after 100 duels, you will be roughly *as good* at the game as you will be after 1000, or 10000 duels...which means the game has no lasting appeal).


But accessibility isn't an issue! We don't care if it takes a while to learn the game. (think: FIFA, Dark Souls). This is only nonsense the execs come up with when they survey non-gamers about why they don't play: oh, no female characters? put female characters in; oh, the controls are too hard? make them easier...etc.

But the reality is: they don't play because it doesn't appeal to them; quit catering to these people...the industry has hit its market cap...live with it, and quit spending money on suits, and work on making good games!



Here is a working strategy for accessibility and depth:

Have a recursive control scheme, just like fifa: have basic fighting tools at the top layer...then, as you hold down triggers and tabs, you get access to more advanced control structures (which they did), have a directional block scheme (which they have) interruptible with a directional dodge with a single click (like releasing the trigger)...With no on screen prompts for which direction to block in, and a timing based riposte, like dark souls...and a few chained attacks/stun frames...and possibly a trick stick, where you get to swing the sword yourself, a la FiFa dribbling, where you initiate canned moves with a series of inputs (i.e., Jedi Academy lightsaber combat with the mouse). These moves may have guard break properties, but they can be dodged...and can always be countered with a timed parry, etc.

Add in a couple of difficult to implement mechanics, like the demon's souls kick, where you have to match the left stick movement with a button push exactly (and make all guard breaks like this difficult, rather than simply a matter of selecting an option in a dialogue--which feels like a turn based RPG at this point).

Just keep the baseline simplicity, but add dimensions. For instance, a piercing attack that bypasses directional blocks, and requires a timed parry.


If you time a directional block perfectly, you might get a stun effect or riposte...if you do it to early, it might be weak and only slightly block the blow.



If you launch a chain attack, then a directional block doesn't halt your chain...so that the defender has to keep blocking until he gets a parry/riposte, or the chain stops.

Further, a perfectly timed dodge should generate a riposte opportunity.

If you have a ranged attack, a jumping attack, directional block, directional dodge, with chainable attacks, parries and ripostes, and the swing stick (as versus Fifa trick-stick) I would think the combat would be good...


Also, if they implemented all of that, and wanted to guarantee accessibility, then they could just implement an AI algorithm to interpret user's swing stick inputs. That way, the game becomes a test of tactics rather than manual dexterity. The user would have his own HMM algorithm trained during the training phase based on his own movements as he attempts to produce the various moves the game asks him to do with joystick manipulations. They could advertise it as a feature: you can try to implement the moves out of the box, or spend time to "train" your warrior. The tighter the AI is able to set its parameters, the larger your move "vocabulary" would become (I mean, manual dexterity will eventually become the limiting factor...but everyone would be able to add at least 4 or five stick moves to their character, once the AI declares that it can recognize the move at some accuracy threshold)...but the game would still be immediately accessible.



But if it stays the way it looks on the gameplay videos, I don't see any way players don't converge on their absolute ability within 100-reps...

ZenBearV13
01-11-2016, 09:12 PM
I'm definitely game for joining a forum clan. I'm buying on PC.

So are we able to discuss our experiences in alpha here? I don't know exactly how strict the NDA is and I never got to post in the alpha forum (log in issues). I'm chomping at the bit to talk brass tacks with others who have actually played. I found the learning curve to be just right and every tactic had a counter. Skill came into play in deciding the best tactic for the moment, changing strategy on the fly to catch your foe off guard. Attack spamming only happened between newbs, once you figured out parrying you could stomp them. Same thing with guard break spam, gank squads, etc. The only thing I had a real hard time with was 1vMore because I couldn't figure out how to smoothy swap targets, and even that has a mechanic in place to mitigate the issue.

MisterWillow
01-13-2016, 02:41 AM
Why is the "learning curve" and accessibility so important?

Learning curve and accessibility is important for anything focused on multiplayer because it increases the game's lifespan the lower the basic learning curve is---and higher the accessibility---the larger the overall player-base is likely to be.

Anything too difficult to introduce to somebody new might have a very dedicated player-base that is really committed to trudge through all the controls and rules and whatnot, but it probably won't extend beyond that, because new players---especially if said game has been out for a while and is populated by a bunch of players that are really good---are more likely to become frustrated by not only a potentially convoluted control system, but being constantly thrashed by people who've been playing since day one.


When I hear those two words in the context of a video game that has, max, 8 control inputs, what I hear is:

"We want to level the playing field so that beginners have a chance to kill experts."

But it looks like a cognitive flexibility game--three options + match the stimulus, with no tactics or other degrees of freedom. its been boiled down to the point where intelligence or skill has zero effect assuming you've got a similar number of reps in the game. (And I bet the time to convergence of ability, in terms of reps, is close to 100, much like the Lumosity game I linked to. That means that, after 100 duels, you will be roughly *as good* at the game as you will be after 1000, or 10000 duels...which means the game has no lasting appeal).

It's about knowing what to do when, similarly to a fighting game. Everything has a counter, it's mostly about reading your opponent.


But accessibility isn't an issue! We don't care if it takes a while to learn the game. (think: FIFA, Dark Souls). This is only nonsense the execs come up with when they survey non-gamers about why they don't play: oh, no female characters? put female characters in; oh, the controls are too hard? make them easier...etc.

But the reality is: they don't play because it doesn't appeal to them; quit catering to these people...the industry has hit its market cap...live with it, and quit spending money on suits, and work on making good games!

What doesn't appeal to them? The concept? The aesthetic? The control system?

In terms of the Souls series, there are plenty of people, myself included, that everything about it appeals to them, but they find it very frustrating and/or tedious to run through a certain area or other dying repeatedly, primarily in the early game, since you can die from a small amount of strikes, especially considering how sturdy some enemies are (depending on player class, of course), so when you mistime something, it could mean your death, and then you have to make your way back through the hordes you've already killed to get back to where you are, and if you were right at the end of an area you've already been through three or four times, and are already frustrated, you're more likely to just want to get back to where you were, and charge into combat with the mindset of quickly killing something without taking into consideration the damage they can do, and get careless and end up dying earlier, losing all your souls (or maybe that's a personal thing :p).

I also find Souls combat to be rather slow and somewhat boring. Bloodborne improved this, which is probably why it was my favourite---of course the aesthetic and heavy Lovecraftian overtones added to my enjoyment.

It's also fairly rudimentary. Most of it relies on patience, timing and knowing enemy attack patterns, but the actual strategy beyond that is very shallow.

They also haven't made the controls any easier. To my knowledge, they haven't changed them at all, though I did see that they might make some tweaks so that fighting two people isn't impossible.


Have a recursive control scheme, just like fifa: have basic fighting tools at the top layer...then, as you hold down triggers and tabs, you get access to more advanced control structures (which they did), have a directional block scheme (which they have) interruptible with a directional dodge with a single click (like releasing the trigger)

Dodge is X (on Playstation), the direction you're moving indicates the direction you'll dodge (as far as I know).

http://static9.cdn.ubi.com/resource/en-US/game/forhonor/game/aob_controller_image_article_208796.jpg


...With no on screen prompts for which direction to block in

People have asked for options to disable aspects of the UI and/or a Hardcore Mode that disables the HUD.


and a timing based riposte, like dark souls...

There is a timing-based parry, where you heavy attack in the direction of an incoming attack the moment before the attack lands.


and a few chained attacks/stun frames...and possibly a trick stick, where you get to swing the sword yourself, a la FiFa dribbling, where you initiate canned moves with a series of inputs (i.e., Jedi Academy lightsaber combat with the mouse).

Not sure if this counts, but you can feint be starting an attack in one direction and switching direction part of the way through.


These moves may have guard break properties, but they can be dodged...and can always be countered with a timed parry, etc.

There's already a dedicated guard break (see controller layout above).


Just keep the baseline simplicity, but add dimensions. For instance, a piercing attack that bypasses directional blocks, and requires a timed parry.

I made a thread about thrusting that I think would add that (in my signature). I think it should be another direction and not require a parry, though.


If you launch a chain attack, then a directional block doesn't halt your chain...so that the defender has to keep blocking until he gets a parry/riposte, or the chain stops.

Pretty meh on this. Maybe as a Feat. That would be interesting.

Directional blocks also don't stop heavy attacks, and cause chip damage.


Further, a perfectly timed dodge should generate a riposte opportunity.

It's arguable that that feature is already present, since dodging out of the way of an attack opens the attack up to a counterattack.


If you have a ranged attack, a jumping attack, directional block, directional dodge, with chainable attacks, parries and ripostes, and the swing stick (as versus Fifa trick-stick) I would think the combat would be good...

The only things absent in your list is a jumping attack, chainables (unless heavy attacks count), and swing stick. There's a ranged Feat (Oni's shuriken), so I'm guessing we'll see others.


But if it stays the way it looks on the gameplay videos, I don't see any way players don't converge on their absolute ability within 100-reps...

I think I've watched all the gameplay videos more than 100 times, and I'm still extremely interested, and I'm guessing there were people in the Alpha who played more games than that and still felt they were learning tactics and strategy.

We also only have real knowledge of two classes. It's going to be more interesting once we get info on shield-bearers and polearm classes, and how all the different classes would be able to play off one another---for example, how an Oni is going to effectively fight a Knight with a spear or the Viking with two axes will probably be much different than how they effectively fight the Warden.

Even if players reach their 'absolute ability' within 100 duels, it doesn't mean they'll stop playing, especially if they're still having fun.

Willaguy2010
01-13-2016, 11:34 AM
There're combos by the way, which is what I assume you mean when you say chainables, as in doing certain attacks in a certain order will yield a specific move at the end of the attack.

premiumart
01-17-2016, 07:08 PM
In terms of the Souls series, there are plenty of people, myself included, that everything about it appeals to them, but they find it very frustrating and/or tedious to run through a certain area or other dying repeatedly, primarily in the early game, since you can die from a small amount of strikes, especially considering how sturdy some enemies are (depending on player class, of course), so when you mistime something, it could mean your death, and then you have to make your way back through the hordes you've already killed to get back to where you are, and if you were right at the end of an area you've already been through three or four times, and are already frustrated, you're more likely to just want to get back to where you were, and charge into combat with the mindset of quickly killing something without taking into consideration the damage they can do, and get careless and end up dying earlier, losing all your souls (or maybe that's a personal thing :p).

I also find Souls combat to be rather slow and somewhat boring. Bloodborne improved this, which is probably why it was my favourite---of course the aesthetic and heavy Lovecraftian overtones added to my enjoyment.

It's also fairly rudimentary. Most of it relies on patience, timing and knowing enemy attack patterns, but the actual strategy beyond that is very shallow.

They also haven't made the controls any easier. To my knowledge, they haven't changed them at all, though I did see that they might make some tweaks so that fighting two people isn't impossible.



Dodge is X (on Playstation), the direction you're moving indicates the direction you'll dodge (as far as I know).



Also In the souls game one feels quite powerless, facing giant monstrosities that laugh at your miserable attempts to harm them. Even though the moment you finally triumph over a superior foe feels even better you might just quit trying forever.

And that pretty much sums up my experience with Demon's Souls. I only played that very first game in the series.


Also the controls arent that easy i mean in demon's souls there already was blocking, a riposte, a heavy attack and a light attack and it only got more complex after that with stances and combos and what not.

Btw All forms of combat kinda rely on patience, timing and knowing the enemys attack patterns and this pretty much is the strategy of fighting in general wait, analyse, strike, survive.

Well i hope you arent bothered by the fact that you kinda described For Honors core as a system you dont like in another game. XD

Fatal-Feit
01-17-2016, 11:21 PM
Souls and For Honor share a similar combat style, but the difference is that Souls pvp usually end up like this.


http://img.memecdn.com/dark-souls-pvp_o_2970083.jpg

premiumart
01-18-2016, 06:23 PM
Souls and For Honor share a similar combat style, but the difference is that Souls pvp usually end up like this.


http://img.memecdn.com/dark-souls-pvp_o_2970083.jpg

Which is totally different to dodging and using guard break near a ledge ? XD

MisterWillow
01-19-2016, 10:58 AM
Also In the souls game one feels quite powerless, facing giant monstrosities that laugh at your miserable attempts to harm them. Even though the moment you finally triumph over a superior foe feels even better you might just quit trying forever.

And that pretty much sums up my experience with Demon's Souls. I only played that very first game in the series.

Pretty much.


Also the controls arent that easy i mean in demon's souls there already was blocking, a riposte, a heavy attack and a light attack and it only got more complex after that with stances and combos and what not.

I think they're simple enough; that is, they're no more complex than any other third-person action game.

What makes the games so hard is that most of your attacks are clunky in a way that makes the precision required in a majority of encounters difficult to achieve, so you're more prone to making mistakes. Like I said in the other post, Bloodborne improved this considerably for most weapons, and the fact that you can properly dash instead of the Souls' games measly side-step/roll makes it feel a bit more like Devil May Cry or something, with the Souls' games trademark 'get hit once and lose half your life' (in the early game, anyway) brand of difficulty. It also helps that shooting an enemy at nearly any point of a major attack animation with your gun acts as a parry, which means you don't have to be on the specific frame the proper Souls' games want you to be to swat an attack away and stagger an enemy.


Btw All forms of combat kinda rely on patience, timing and knowing the enemys attack patterns and this pretty much is the strategy of fighting in general wait, analyse, strike, survive.

True, but the Souls' games punish you much more for not exercising those strategies than other games, which, in most cases, is artificial difficulty. If you're fighting more than two people, then yes, a greater strategy would need to come into play---isolating enemies, trying not to get surrounded, etc.---but for most encounters it's 90% waiting for them to attack first.


Well i hope you arent bothered by the fact that you kinda described For Honors core as a system you dont like in another game. XD

Well, For Honor's combat is much different than the Soul's games, and its PVP seems to have more strategy than strafing around an enemy waiting for an opportunity to roll behind them for a backstab. :p

premiumart
01-20-2016, 08:21 PM
Pretty much.


Well, For Honor's combat is much different than the Soul's games, and its PVP seems to have more strategy than strafing around an enemy waiting for an opportunity to roll behind them for a backstab. :p

Well as if side stepping wouldnt be good in For Honor aswell iv seen it in the first gameplay demo, there ll probably not be a backstab but it would totally be insta win getting struck from behind repeatedly. Side stepping might not be as effective as in souls though.

ZenBearV13
01-21-2016, 02:06 AM
There better not be a backstab in For Honor. That and riposte are the dumbest mechanics in Souls. It breaks the flow of combat and is too powerful by far. It's plenty good enough to strike your opponent normally when they present such an opening, no need for a canned animation and insane damage.

MisterWillow
01-21-2016, 05:19 AM
Well as if side stepping wouldnt be good in For Honor aswell iv seen it in the first gameplay demo, there ll probably not be a backstab but it would totally be insta win getting struck from behind repeatedly. Side stepping might not be as effective as in souls though.

I seriously doubt it will.

Movement in the Souls games is more... floaty (for lack of a better word) than For Honor, so it's much easier to roll (or walk, in some cases) behind an opponent and score an easy 12000-points of instant damage. You take fairly deliberate steps in For Honor, which means you move slower, and even the dash---aside from a couple of circumstances---I don't think affords you enough movement to skirt around to your opponent's back. And even if it does, with the lock-on system, you should quickly re-focus on said opponent. That's not to say a well-evaded attack won't leave you open---it will, from every indication---but it won't be enough for the sorts of things you see in Souls PVP.

Being hit from behind will be of more concern, and be more frequent, while fighting multiple opponents than in strict duels.

Fatal-Feit
01-21-2016, 04:01 PM
I seriously doubt it will.

Movement in the Souls games is more... floaty (for lack of a better word) than For Honor, so it's much easier to roll (or walk, in some cases) behind an opponent and score an easy 12000-points of instant damage. You take fairly deliberate steps in For Honor, which means you move slower, and even the dash---aside from a couple of circumstances---I don't think affords you enough movement to skirt around to your opponent's back. And even if it does, with the lock-on system, you should quickly re-focus on said opponent. That's not to say a well-evaded attack won't leave you open---it will, from every indication---but it won't be enough for the sorts of things you see in Souls PVP.

Being hit from behind will be of more concern, and be more frequent, while fighting multiple opponents than in strict duels.

You're right. Back attacks (if you're excluding the Oni's counterattack) only really occur when you're fighting against 2 or more opponents, and when you're distracted and an enemy gets the jump on you. Luckily there's non of that awful backstab mechanic from Souls.

But yeah, you're on the mark with what you said. Side-stepping is no easy task. Compared to Souls, it's more weighty and 7 out of the 10 times, it may get you hit (which makes timing parrying more handy).

The Oni DOES have a bit of an exploit with side-stepping, though. As I've spoke about a while ago, side-stepping and loading the lunging counterattack (still don't know the name of it) is a super effective combo! If side-stepping doesn't confuse your opponent and leave them open already, the lunging attack will. And even if you're not planning to damage the enemy, the quick jump backwards to load the lunging attack makes a great dodge mechanic. That was my be all and end all when playing the Oni. :p

premiumart
01-21-2016, 05:20 PM
I seriously doubt it will.

Movement in the Souls games is more... floaty (for lack of a better word) than For Honor, so it's much easier to roll (or walk, in some cases) behind an opponent and score an easy 12000-points of instant damage. You take fairly deliberate steps in For Honor, which means you move slower, and even the dash---aside from a couple of circumstances---I don't think affords you enough movement to skirt around to your opponent's back. And even if it does, with the lock-on system, you should quickly re-focus on said opponent. That's not to say a well-evaded attack won't leave you open---it will, from every indication---but it won't be enough for the sorts of things you see in Souls PVP.

Being hit from behind will be of more concern, and be more frequent, while fighting multiple opponents than in strict duels.

yeah, yeah.

Side stepping probably is more of a master swordsman kind of thing. XD

guest-7lONTXP5
03-13-2016, 01:35 PM
The only things absent in your list is a jumping attack, chainables (unless heavy attacks count), and swing stick. There's a ranged Feat (Oni's shuriken), so I'm guessing we'll see others.


I'm not that much up to date (only real news are the stamina system, the throw/push thing concerning knight and samurai and the attack vs more targets if I didn't overlook something) but considering older gameplay we saw a jumping attack (4:58) performed by a character using Shield and Sword as he dashed into battle, probably a Viking. A little bit later in the same fight (5:08) he did a swirling attack (the knight evaded it/got out of range if I saw it correctly) and than used his shield to attack/push the foes sword aside and swung his sword right after it. Next he started, what I think was an heavy attack and his shield got out of position (which looked bad if it was because of the heavy attack...maybe for balancing).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOjwxYzwQPk --- Play it at 0.25 speed --- Watch the knight Pascal and his enemy --- Quality is rather bad but I think It's enough to make the mentioned moves out


Btw. I would hate to see a swing stick feature, AOB is enough for me and probably doesn't need that much money to be good. And man I'm so ready for some Polearm news. Pretty excited how they will handle those and if they get some nice animations. :rolleyes:

TidalSpiral
03-16-2016, 02:25 AM
There better not be a backstab in For Honor. That and riposte are the dumbest mechanics in Souls. It breaks the flow of combat and is too powerful by far. It's plenty good enough to strike your opponent normally when they present such an opening, no need for a canned animation and insane damage.

I can't see that unless it's a timed special ability type thing, the game seems to push you towards a face to face duel by nature. I might be misjudging it but even when a third person interrupts a fight by hitting an enemy, it seemed to do less damage than a normal successful attack would have. It also jars you though and helps the person you are engaging get a clean strike but that's fair enough when outnumbered.