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joberrick
08-07-2004, 12:46 PM
Will the Devastator be in the games as ai or Flyable, also will the bomb bay doors open?

joberrick
08-07-2004, 12:46 PM
Will the Devastator be in the games as ai or Flyable, also will the bomb bay doors open?

Latico
08-07-2004, 01:37 PM
The Devestator didn't have an inclosed bomb bay. When a Torpedo was loaded the front half of it was visible. The Avenger had the inclosed Bomb bay with doors.

Burnin_777_AVG
08-07-2004, 02:56 PM
There will be a TBD eventually and it will be modelled correctly. I can't say anymore then that.

BV

zuiho
08-07-2004, 03:44 PM
I hope that the Devastator will be the plane... it's an excellent prey for the 20mm cannons... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AA_Trouble4u
08-07-2004, 03:47 PM
Someday with any luck it will be flyable and I could use it to change history by sinking a carrier at midway! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

heywooood
08-07-2004, 05:43 PM
c'mon Burnin'dude....show us your Devastator http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif....ermmm..you know what I mean.



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

jensenpark
08-08-2004, 03:44 PM
Did this bird have any successes at all in combat?

I'll admit I am not well read on PTO torp bombers, but I really haven't seen anything about it except it was slaughtered at Midway.

What about Coral Sea or other pre-Midway battles...?

http://www.corsair-web.com/thistler/rtfoxint.jpg
Buzz Beurling flying his last sortie over Malta, Oct.24, 1942

-dying non-stop online as silverdart

heywooood
08-08-2004, 04:04 PM
Not sure if the planes' relative success or failures will factor into the decision to include it...it was there. I want to fly it if possible..or escort it to the target...or try to shoot it down as an IJN pilot.



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

SkyChimp
08-08-2004, 04:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jensenpark:
Did this bird have any successes at all in combat?

I'll admit I am not well read on PTO torp bombers, but I really haven't seen anything about it except it was slaughtered at Midway.

What about Coral Sea or other pre-Midway battles...?

http://www.corsair-web.com/thistler/rtfoxint.jpg
Buzz Beurling flying his last sortie over Malta, Oct.24, 1942

-dying non-stop online as silverdart<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It had success.

It is credited with sinking the Japanese carrier Shoho during the Battle of the Coral Sea. It scored hits on other ships as well in other engagements. It was used successfully as a level bomber for attacks on Japanese land bases. The Battle Of Midway in June 1942, where it assisted in sinking the Japanese heavy cruiser Mikuma and heavily damage its sister ship Mogami, saw its last use as a front line torpedo plane. It was very slow and rather defenseless against fighters and suffered horrendous losses. By the beginning of the Battle for Guadalcanal in August 1942, it had been all but completely replaced by the Avenger.

One major problem was its cruise speed. It was MUCH lower than that of the escorting Wildcat. The Wildcat had to either throttle way back to cruise along, which would cause it to enter into the battle area at too low of a speed. Another method would be to have the slow Devestators leave for a strike first and have the faster Wildcats catch up close to target, which sometimes resulted in the escort not being able to find the torpedo planes. Another method was for the Wildcat to climb and zig-zag along with the Devestators, which caused considerably more fuel useage.

On the plus side, it was VERY advanced for a torpedo plane when it entered service in 1936. It was had very good flight and deck handling characteristics.

Regards,
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/signature.jpg

jensenpark
08-08-2004, 06:28 PM
Hey Chimp, thanks as always...

Good info. I never really see anything about it except its (unintended) role in dragging the Japanese defenders to sea level near the fleet, leaving the sky open for the Dauntlesses.

I remember having a fun/challenge with it in the old Aces over the Pacific (by Sierra?). I'm going to make the assumption we'll see it in PF.

Always had a bit of soft spot for it because of its obvious obsolesence - yet pilots still bravely flew it.

Hey, how come we don't see you much on the main board anymore?

http://www.corsair-web.com/thistler/rtfoxint.jpg
Buzz Beurling flying his last sortie over Malta, Oct.24, 1942

-dying non-stop online as silverdart

SkyChimp
08-08-2004, 06:32 PM
Dunno. Fewer interesting topics, I guess. I mainly post here, now.

Regards,
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/signature.jpg

Nimits
08-10-2004, 08:13 PM
THe TBD gets a bad rap and unfavorable comparisons to the B5N (with reason). But what alot of histroy books do not point out well is that at Coral Sea, where TBDs were (relatively) well-escorted against relatively light CAP, they survived as well as any other bomber and even managed to score a few hits (that there were not more was due as much to faulty torpedos as to the planes or pilots). That it was withdrawn immediately after Midway was in part a coincidence. The USN was already in the process of requipping the Hornet and Saratoga airwings with the TBD prior to Midway; the debacle of June 4 just sped up the process a little (and even the much accalaimed TBF was not fast or armed enough to surive without fighter escort).

The B5N's better reputation was mostly due to the fact that (1) it generally had plenty of Zeros to protect it against less than adaquate USN CAPs, and (2) it was armed with arguably the best aerial anti-ship torpedo of the war. What is not commonly realized is that when IJN planes went up against US fighters without strong escort, they suffered almost as badly as the Devestators at Midway.

Tater-SW-
08-10-2004, 10:07 PM
Excellent points about the TBD. TBs had a very short effective lifetime as a weapons platform. The TBF/Ms were used far more often as bombers than torpedo planes. Low and slow equals death in just about any crate. In general, carrier based bombers without fighter escort are meat on the table.

tater

Snootles
08-11-2004, 09:13 AM
Following the first early successes of the Ju 87 Stuka, the USAAF decided it had better jump on the dive-bombing train as well. It acquired models the SBD Dauntless under the designation A-24. Their combat performance was terrible, and there was a reason for this. They were being used the wrong way. Air Force doctrine had the A-24's come into a target as a first-strike force, without fighter cover and without preliminary flak supression. Dive-bombers get mauled if enemy fighters are not kept busy by something else. And it realy helps to have someone hit some of the AAA first. By 1942 the Air Force had all but abandoned its dive-bombing program, and the SB2C Helldivers ordered as A-25s were given back to the Marines.

Nimits
08-21-2004, 10:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Burnin_777_AVG:
There will be a TBD eventually and it will be modelled correctly. I can't say anymore then that.

BV<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you saying it will be in the game eventually as AI (pretty much a given, as trying to do a Pacific Sim without even an AI Devestator is like trying to do an Easter Front sim without, say, a Sturmovik)

Or are you saying that it will eventually be flyable?

VW-IceFire
08-21-2004, 11:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nimits:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Burnin_777_AVG:
There will be a TBD eventually and it will be modelled correctly. I can't say anymore then that.

BV<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you saying it will be in the game eventually as AI (pretty much a given, as trying to do a Pacific Sim without even an AI Devestator is like trying to do an Easter Front sim without, say, a Sturmovik)

Or are you saying that it will eventually be flyable?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think he's saying first and foremost that he won't say anymore than he has.

I'll take what he's said and make a solid guess that the game wouldn't ship without a AI Devastator (the plane was a crucial component of Coral Sea and Midway battles) and that work is being done to make it flyable eventually.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RAF No 92 Squadron
"Either fight or die"

Nimits
08-21-2004, 11:27 PM
It better be flyable, or else I'll threaten to just load up CFS2 and shoot carrier traps with the 1% TBD in there. The Devestator is my favorite bomber of all time, don't you know, and the first thing a plan to do in PF is start a Torpedo Bomber career.