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Piaggio108
02-21-2004, 08:01 AM
I have mostly flown the LaGG-3, and am good with it offline, but I have been trying to learn how to fly the bf.109, and I have had almost no luck. Does anyone have any tips on how to fly it?

Piaggio108
02-21-2004, 08:01 AM
I have mostly flown the LaGG-3, and am good with it offline, but I have been trying to learn how to fly the bf.109, and I have had almost no luck. Does anyone have any tips on how to fly it?

Chuck_Older
02-21-2004, 08:06 AM
My first suggestion is: fly with complex engine management. Then, in game, hit shift+0 (shift and the number zero) to make prop pitch manual.

The Bf109 has an automatic prop pitch control that can be turned off to allow you control of the pitch. It's a little touchy though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif You don't want to over-rev and smoke your own engine. But this helps me a lot in the Bf 109. I find acceleration in general benefits from manual prop pitch, but it does take some practice to do correctly- you can REALLY over rev the engine, or overheat it quickly.

My second suggestion is that under say 3000m or so, use 120% fuel mixture if you have the gas to do it.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

carguy_
02-21-2004, 08:39 AM
In combat don`t even try to push it with horizontal maneuvers.Vertical is at what Me109 is best.
The Me109 tactics are called Boom and Zoom.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

Pips_Piller
02-21-2004, 09:48 AM
In the "real" Me/Bf 109, in speeds in 300 mph, controls were easy to use. Once speeds went over that, they got very difficult to use. Approaching 400, they were almost imoveble.
The 109 was an "attack" plane, boom and zoom, is correct.
Adolph Galland, said to never get into a turning war............something I have to keep in mind. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

JG14_Josf
02-21-2004, 09:49 AM
Michapma hosts training tracks (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/tracks.htm)

Boom and Zoom or Hit and Run is one thing while Energy Tactics describe something else or at least a more specific description of tactical manuevering.

While Boom and Zoom or Hit and Run tactics dictate that the attacker maintain every advantage possible; Energy Tactics employ the enemies weaknesses against them even when the attack is made at a dissadvantage.

Boom and Zoom or Hit and Run tactics require that the Attacker maintains a high relative advantage in energy over the target. In order to accomplish this state of energy advantage the attacker must learn how to judge relative energy states and the attacker must know how to conserve energy.

Energy tactics require the same skill in maintaining and realizing relative energy advantage. However, in order to employ Energy Tactics the attacker must also know how to lure the enemy into burning energy at a higher relative rate. In other words; Hit and Run or Boom and Zoom makes no effort to control the enemies behavior, there are no allowances in Hit and Run tactics for controling the fight other than to maintain a relative higher state of energy, while Energy tactics specifically require that the attacker maneuver in such a way that the defender is inspired to manuever to his own disadvantage.

How is this done?

For one thing the Energy tactician must have a keener sense of realtive energy states. The Boom and Zoom or Hit and Run tactician can exit the fight at any time where the slightest hint of disadvantage exists. The Energy tactician can enter a fight even from a posstion of dissadvantage.
The Hit and Run attacker can avoid any situation where a target is believed to hold any advantage.
The Energy tactician must know just how much relative energy gap exists so as to know which maneuvers have the greatest chance of success.
The Boom and Zoom or Hit and Run attacker simply attacks at advantage and runs before the advantage is lost.

The player armed with all the skills required to effectivley employ Hit and Run or Boom and Zoom tactics can survive and destroy enemy planes as long as the relative energy state margin is solidly maintained in his favor.

The player armed with the skills to employ energy tactics can survive and destroy enemy planes even when the relative energy state margin is not in his favor.

Energy Tactics require that the player can judge relative energy states with greater precision.

Perhaps that is why it is called Energy Tactics.

While the Boom and Zoom player need only know how to fly straight at the enemy, shoot without turning, and exit in a straight run, the energy tactician must know how much turning can be acomplished during the attack before the relative energy margin swings too far in favor of the target.

The Energy Tactician must know when to employ the correct geometry i.e. nose to nose or nose to tail turns, lead turns, lag turns, pure pursuit too.

The Energy Tactician must know the relative energy cost of maneuvering at all speeds and g loads.

The Energy Tactician must know at which speeds his plane can turn the fastest tightest turn and at which speed his plane retains the ability to maneuver in the vertical plane.

The Energy Tacticain must know and look for human weakness in behavior in himself and his enemies.

Greed can be a devastating weakness.



Check the tracks on that page, consider taking the time to load the tracks as they are intended to be seen i.e. as Training Files in the IL2/FB training folder including the text files.

Pips_Piller
02-21-2004, 09:49 AM
Ooops, should have have said, "in speeds below 300 mph"

bodaw
02-21-2004, 10:24 AM
Hello, I'm also relatively new to 109s and still trying to learn the ropes. It's very challenging and also very rewarding. It really makes you think before you dive right into the furballs.

So far from my meager experiences with the Bf109 G6/AS, if it's an one on one fight, you could use both horizontal and vertical manuevers and dogfight pretty well. Ofcourse, one must manage the prop pitch, flaps and trim very well. But if it's more than one bandit, it's better off to use the boom and zoom.

It is critical to know the Vspeeds of the 109 you are flying. I'm still testing the G6/AS and still ways to go.

Don't get discouraged by the initial frustrations and keep practicing. It'll make you a better flyer in other planes as well.

Huxley_S
02-21-2004, 10:57 AM
Dude... the LaGG3 is my favourite plane and I tried several Bf109 models and found them all unsatisfactory until I tried the G6/AS model. Equip the nose-cannon and you will be amazed at how LaGG3y it feels.

It isn't as easy to fly and the visibility isn't as good and it isn't as robust and you will need to "re-learn" exactly when to pull the trigger because that feels different too. Take off and landing usually requires more care though. You need to be gentle.

I have really grown to love flying this plane.

Tip - make sure you press shift+F1 so that you are looking through the sight properly (it is set off to one side).

Have fun!

http://www.totallyradio.com/fb_shots/hux3.jpg

S77th-brooks
02-21-2004, 12:13 PM
he,s right g6 is great plane and just like it says it,s mid way between k4 and f4 ,so play with the mods becauses they all have there own feel and rolls to play .but the key words are MOTOR and E ,with out these and it flys like a dog and with these its a dream http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

BfHeFwMe
02-21-2004, 01:35 PM
Spot on analysis Josf, only thing I'd throw in is most virtual pilots confuse the B&Z and energy fighter 109 pilots, they fail to see distinctions. Often confuse a verticle scissors fight with B&Z, it all looks the same to them. The energy guy is the guy who doesn't ever run, but keeps you right at arms length and busy turning while it appears he's zooming. Don't worry, he won't zoom very far, he'll be back for ya. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Piaggio108
02-22-2004, 01:06 PM
Thanks, i'll try some of that, I am a early plane nut, so I have mostly been flying the E4 and E7. Should I use something later?

diomedes33
02-22-2004, 03:20 PM
I got caught in this today and am not sure what I did wrong. Its probably a noob mistake so it'll fit right in here.

I was cruising today at 2k (I know too low, but I had just taken off and was climbing to altitude) in a g6/as online. I think I was going about 400 kph in a gentle (vsi read 5) climb. I noticed an La7 approaching me head on about 500 m below and looked like to me 400-450 kph.

I leveled off and went to 100% throttle to get more airspeed to extend past. As soon as we past each other, the La7 did an immelmen (I think that's what it is split-s only up) I wasn't too concerned. He was about level with me now, but thought he had lost a great deal of airspeed in that maneuver.

Thinking that he was slower than I, tried to use it to my advantage and started a gentle climbing turn. Nothing drastic about 5 degree bank 5 degree pitch. Checked my six, he was still back there aways. I couldn't make out anything more then wings, 1 - 1.5 km maybe. I'm thinking keep climbing wait till he stalls out come back around and get him.

Well I must of severely miscalculated something, about 15 seconds after we merged he was sitting on my tail and giving me a generous gift of 20mms. By this time I was about 3k and going about 350 -375 kph.

Since all of the 109s have to deal with the dreaded yaks and las, how do we survive a merge like this?

----

Here's some tricks that I picked up since I started flying the 109.

Stay High - try cruising around 3k or more.
Try to stay out of turn fights

If you are caught at about the same energy level as your enemy, always be moving up or down. Its harder for the vvs planes to follow you or avoid you.

MW50 can be your best friend
http://www.public.asu.edu/~guthriec/ubi_sig.jpg

[This message was edited by diomedes33 on Sun February 22 2004 at 02:39 PM.]

Chuck_Older
02-22-2004, 03:39 PM
A lot of folks feel the La-7 has some unfair advantages, especially with regard to energy bleed- or, if youy prefer- it's seeming ability to not lose speed when manuevering.

Well, let me tell you- I certainly can make it lose speed when manuevering! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

There are ways to make an energy conserving turn or manuever that will not allow the defender to extend. Whether or not it should have happened in your case, I can't say, there are a lot of factors, but yes, it seems that the La-7 conserves energy very well, maybe a little too well.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

bodaw
02-22-2004, 06:34 PM
According to Hans (The Finnish ace), the best defense is to attack.

And also, the best cornering speed for G6/AS is around 350 kmh. If it's only one bandit I never hesitate to dogfight with the G6/AS. With good E management, it's quite capable.

DONB3397
02-22-2004, 09:53 PM
I tend to fly the 109 (G-2s, G-6s & K-4s)more than other planes. They accelerate in the air, climb well and have a whole range of control elements to play with. Just finished reading two books by and/or about LW 109 aces Helmut Lipfert and G. Rall. They are consistent on certain tactics:

- Try to begin every combat with an altitude advantage.

- Keep the a/c's speed at all costs, even if it means your turns are wide.

- Get as close to your target as possible before firing, then break so you don't cross in front.

- Squeeze off short bursts to confirm your aim, then fire canon and mg simultaneously to maximize impact.

Remember, you can kill speed with the radiator flaps, even in a dive. Keep them open one-step.

This plane accelerates and climbs well, rolls and scissors at speed, but the FB flight model doesn't give it great dive characteristics.

Visibility was a problem in the real a/c, and it's a problem in FB. If you're flying with externals off, fish tail to check six, before you set up your attack.

Come to think of it, these are about the same suggestions everyone else has posted. There must be comfort in numbers.

Winning isn't everything;
It's the only thing!
http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/3fe77b7e_1812a/bc/Images/Sig---1.jpg?BCbi4NAB.0s9LZQo