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View Full Version : The Modern Day Problem - What is the solution?



Sorrosyss
11-14-2015, 03:33 PM
From the very original Assassin's Creed, the modern day has remained a part of the overarching story. For those of us who have followed the franchise since the beginning, it has been fundamental in deciding where we go within the historical eras, as the hunt for the Pieces of Eden escalated by both Abstergo and the Assassins.

However, not everyone enjoyed the modern day story. For many, it felt as if you had been torn away from the fun historical sections, to frankly, stand around talking as Desmond. Following AC3, we lost the 3rd person protagonist entirely and took on the new role of playing as ourselves within AC4. Again here though, many players did not enjoy playing a faceless, voiceless entity. Things went even further within Unity and Syndicate where we were reduced to merely cutscenes, in a completely passive experience.

The reduction in the Modern Day relevance has been gradual, but it is apparent to many long term fans that they miss what came before. Throughout the net I see polls on fansites, where fans appear to overwhelmingly support the return to a third person protagonist, such as this one that went around social media recently.

http://i.imgur.com/WnywXV3.png


[http://www.poll-maker.com/poll329854xf52F4892-12]

But herein lies the issue now. We have had 9 major game releases, as well as about 13 other games (Bloodlines, Identity etc), filled with storyline now. If you are a new player to the franchise wanting to enjoy the latest release, how on earth does Ubisoft balance the Modern Day story to cater for these people with no prior narrative knowledge? We can't really expect players to sit through a 15 minute recap each time.

To recap then, Ubisoft needs to balance across several groups of players now for future titles;

- Those who love the Modern Day and want a third person character back.
- Those who hate the Modern Day and want it removed.
- Those who are happy playing as themselves, and wants things to stay as they are.
- New players who have no knowledge of the previous storyline.

On reflection, this is a very difficult situation for them to balance now. If they add in a massive amount of playable Modern Day, or add an entire sequel around it they risk alienating a portion of the existing player base, as well as newcomers. After all, the Assassin's Creed franchise is very much known for its historical tourism now, and such a release would inevitably draw comparisons with the much derided Watch Dogs. Some people have suggested that we make the Modern Day sections optional, but from Ubisoft's standpoint I can see that as being undesirable - do you really want to spend time and resources on a section that alot of players may not even participate in? Doing so would naturally reduce the length of the historical section as well.

http://i.imgur.com/hml9kAD.png

So what is the solution? If you want my suggestion, I feel we should look at DLC. Why? Well look at it this way. If Ubisoft can continue to make the historical portion of the main releases the primary focus, the Modern Day will not have to become part of the equation if it is repackaged as the DLC. Think about it, it gives players the option of partaking in the Modern Day portion entirely by their own volition, but not impacting or affecting those who purely want to play their main historical storyline. In turn, it does not expose Ubisoft to the risk factors of damaging the franchise reputation by including too much Modern Day to the main release. In the grand scheme of things, the DLCs Freedom Cry and Dead Kings did not really add that much to the historical stories, and were very much self contained. I can imagine Jack The Ripper will be the same. If we were to instead replace them with playable Modern Day stories, with a 3rd person protagonist such as playing as Galina, it would allow the Modern Day story to once more be properly told to those who want to experience it.

http://i.imgur.com/evWThVn.png

I appreciate many fans have an aversion to paying for DLC, but those of us who enjoy the Modern Day stories have often resorted to purchasing the recent comics and books that embellish the timeline anyway, such as the recent Titan Comics. In the end, we are already spending money on the narrative, and in my view I would much rather spend the same money on a proper playable Modern Day DLC and experience it as we once did, rather than through the tertiary expanded universe. Let us not forget that we have had a Modern Day DLC before, in AC Revelations. The Lost Archive was very much focused on the themes of the Modern Day, and both explored and added to the existing lore. As such, there is a precedent for such a DLC. Given the obvious desire from a substantial amount of the player base for the Modern Day to return, it makes sense to me as a possible solution to give all of the playerbase what they desire.

Would love to hear your thoughts. :)

Keyenuta6y
11-14-2015, 04:02 PM
I think they should either make a assassin's creed game were you can create a present day character and play as him/her and be able to go on missions and kill people or make it like they did Evie and Jacob that you can switch between present and past but if create character you can choose voice skin have a bunch of different hair styles how the body looks and clothes but you could also start it like something like desmond but I also see a bunch of people complaining about modern and Desmond stuff so I would like to see someone else's ideas

Farlander1991
11-14-2015, 04:02 PM
Outside of the stuff I mentioned in the other modern day thread, the solution to make everyone happy is to actually keep the modern day narrative simple. This doesn't mean no lore or details or secondary characters, this means to keep the main path simple and easy to follow. Which is actually very hard to do, and AC quite frankly sucks at it.

AC1 has set up what could be a simple story. There's Desmond, our unwilling protagonist who needs to raise up for the challenge while at danger from, as it turns out, going crazy. There's our allies, the Assassins, represented by Lucy, who want to keep peace and humanity's free will and battle against the Templars, our antagonists represented by Vidic, who believe that humanity needs to be controlled and intend to do so with the main macguffin artifact. That's actually enough for the amount of time AC games can delegate to Modern Day (cause history is still the main star). If the modern day in Desmond's Saga would be a straight line from that starting point, people wouldn't have any real problems in keeping up. Like, lore, side characters, mysteries, stuff like subject 16, that has to be to the side, to make the world more detailed for those who're into it, but to not have problems explaining anything to those who get from the beginning.

But AC keeps raising up the required knowledge and making the plots more complicated (without having enough playtime in the game to justify it, while we're at it) which keeps raising the bar of entry. The bar of entry for AC2 in terms of Modern Day was very low, due to what AC1 has set up, but by the time of AC3... You need to know who Subject 16 is, because he became an important character, you need to know who The First Civ are, you need to know that the First Civ has different factions, in AC3 you need to know who a character is who wasn't mentioned in the game at all before (that being Daniel Cross) and AC3 itself tries to somehow quickly explain it to people, because the guy is more present in AC3 than Vidic and he's essentially our main Templar antagonist in that game, you need to know that there are two different main plots going on - the satellite one and the solar flare one.... And the problem is, it's to the detriment of the main story itself - it needs so many elements that it can't resolve any of them in a satisfying manner because there's not enough time for that.

And the thing is, despite AC4 kind of resetting that bar somewhat, the stuff started piling up again with Sages, Juno, introducing elements from transmedia like Galina, etc. etc.

ACZanius
11-14-2015, 04:12 PM
The poll gives me big smile :p

I really believe that biggest fanbase are the original people or early people who liked modern day and miss it a lot, i love this idea of a DLC and i would buy it in a heart beat if there was some sort of episodic modern day type of DLC, i'm glad to say Syndicate was good game and it was not a filler like previous AC4, Rogue and Unity, it really did advance the modern day but it could be so much more than that, i would absolutely love again to have 3rd person protagonist, playable and being part of main events and doing big things in the world, but much more evolved and bigger example



A: Third Person Protagonist, male or female does not matter with Assassin training

B: Hideout, Where we interact with other characters in dialogues, pick out our gear for the missions, upgrades etc

C: Linear missions, like AC3 did but way more evolved, for example having to infiltrate a Abstergo facility and eliminating a Templar agent, as weapons i can see military cross bows, modern hidden blade, drones etc no need to go overboard with firearms because at the end of the day we are trying to look subtle

C: An amazing modern day plot, where it's race against time, have a strong reason to go out there in the world to hunt and go after the objective, make it crucial and interesting




I tried to be realistic as possible with my knowledge of gaming development which is basic regarding budgets costs of stuff and time, now to go from my feelings in full, i would buy in a heart beat a full modern day Assassin's Creed game day 1, or like you had a great suggestion the DLC or rather a "Spin Off" Expansion title or some sort, i have full faith that the Teams at Ubisoft are more than capable of doing such thing with what they have created so far it is truly mind blowing when you take 2 steps back and see it all.


@Farlander1991 You have some ties into gaming development give us your take on 4 points i said above and if you have anything to expand...

ModernWaffle
11-14-2015, 04:25 PM
Outside of the stuff I mentioned in the other modern day thread, the solution to make everyone happy is to actually keep the modern day narrative simple. This doesn't mean no lore or details or secondary characters, this means to keep the main path simple and easy to follow. Which is actually very hard to do, and AC quite frankly sucks at it.

AC1 has set up what could be a simple story. There's Desmond, our unwilling protagonist who needs to raise up for the challenge while at danger from, as it turns out, going crazy. There's our allies, the Assassins, represented by Lucy, who want to keep peace and humanity's free will and battle against the Templars, our antagonists represented by Vidic, who believe that humanity needs to be controlled and intend to do so with the main macguffin artifact. That's actually enough for the amount of time AC games can delegate to Modern Day (cause history is still the main star). If the modern day in Desmond's Saga would be a straight line from that starting point, people wouldn't have any real problems in keeping up. Like, lore, side characters, mysteries, stuff like subject 16, that has to be to the side, to make the world more detailed for those who're into it, but to not have problems explaining anything to those who get from the beginning.

But AC keeps raising up the required knowledge and making the plots more complicated (without having enough playtime in the game to justify it, while we're at it) which keeps raising the bar of entry. The bar of entry for AC2 in terms of Modern Day was very low, due to what AC1 has set up, but by the time of AC3... You need to know who Subject 16 is, because he became an important character, you need to know who The First Civ are, you need to know that the First Civ has different factions, in AC3 you need to know who a character is who wasn't mentioned in the game at all before (that being Daniel Cross) and AC3 itself tries to somehow quickly explain it to people, because the guy is more present in AC3 than Vidic and he's essentially our main Templar antagonist in that game, you need to know that there are two different main plots going on - the satellite one and the solar flare one.... And the problem is, it's to the detriment of the main story itself - it needs so many elements that it can't resolve any of them in a satisfying manner because there's not enough time for that.

And the thing is, despite AC4 kind of resetting that bar somewhat, the stuff started piling up again with Sages, Juno, introducing elements from transmedia like Galina, etc. etc.

Spot on - and unfortunately this means there is no solution for MD unless you completely restart it and stick to the new plot wholeheartedly. However, this can't work either since AC4 tried to set a new MD narrative (which wasn't a bad attempt at that) but then Rogue and Unity killed it with random new narratives - essentially giving us 3 new unnamed protagonists who aren't followed up on.

I appreciate that Syndicate at least acknowledges that the past MD exists (loved that moment of Shaun respecting Desmond's sacrifice) and as a self-contained story it made sense, though everything's too convoluted at this point for there to be any consistency with the MD story as a whole.

The situation can be made better - DLC for MD sounds good for example - but realistically Ubisoft will never do this since not enough people want it. I honestly wish I could have been at the 'Ubisoft meeting' when they were discussing MD story plans for Rogue and Unity, didn't they realise that AC wasn't ending with those games and that maybe, just maybe, this would ruin any chance for MD to be logically kept.

Sorrosyss
11-14-2015, 04:36 PM
The situation can be made better - DLC for MD sounds good for example - but realistically Ubisoft will never do this since not enough people want it.

I respect your opinion, but I'll respectfully disagree on this point. I only linked one of many polls that show large support for the Modern Day element. But I suppose the only way we'll ever know is if they do a playable DLC, and find out what the sales are. As I said though, thats still a lower risk to them than doing it with the main release.

As farlander1991 said, simplifying the Modern Day may be an answer, as would rebooting it as the DLC. I agree that alot of the convoluted plot has come about due to the reduced Modern Day playtime, so I would imagine a multi hour DLC story would be much better placed to try and resolve a lot of the lingering plot threads that we simply ordinarily don't have time for. Thats another reason alot of it ended up in Initiates and the comics too.

kosmoscreed
11-14-2015, 04:44 PM
Total reboot, make the Montreal team oversee everything but have another team developing it. Keep it separate from the helix simulation, first you play the simulation and then you play the modern day, this way you can have a modern day with decent length and not small chunks you play now and then,

Farlander1991
11-14-2015, 04:51 PM
I respect your opinion, but I'll respectfully disagree on this point. I only linked one of many polls that show large support for the Modern Day element.

Except polls like these would be visited mostly be people who care about Modern Day in the first place, heck maybe even the same people a lot of times.

Besides, that's some exceptionally small number of people voting. The particular poll you've linked to has 835 people in 165 days, based on the info from the poll, when, based on sales info, most AC games have at least 10 million players. That's the opinion of 0.01% of player base.

I'm sure Ubisoft has knowledge about the opinions of a much bigger percentage than that.

ACDumi911
11-14-2015, 04:53 PM
Completely agree with you. Actually I was thinking mostly the same. I think the modern day should be extended in the season pass and a bit offered as an episodic things (something like adding things to the plot every 3 months). However, I'll not cut on historical DLC (as Freedom Cry) as players like this and I guess it's do not cost plenty to produce it.

Sorrosyss
11-14-2015, 05:01 PM
Except polls like these would be visited mostly be people who care about Modern Day in the first place, heck maybe even the same people a lot of times.

Besides, that's some exceptionally small number of people voting. The particular poll you've linked to has 835 people in 165 days, based on the info from the poll, when, based on sales info, most AC games have at least 10 million players. That's the opinion of 0.01% of player base.

I'm sure Ubisoft has knowledge about the opinions of a much bigger percentage than that.

Oh I agree that its a small portion, but you need only look at the comments sections of articles on gaming sites, or Youtube comments, or even how many threads related to the Modern Day there are on these very forums. There is a lot of love out there, and I personally feel it is a large portion of the playerbase from what I've seen, but as you say only Ubisoft knows from their own surveys.

jellejackhammer
11-14-2015, 05:02 PM
Outside of the stuff I mentioned in the other modern day thread, the solution to make everyone happy is to actually keep the modern day narrative simple. This doesn't mean no lore or details or secondary characters, this means to keep the main path simple and easy to follow. Which is actually very hard to do, and AC quite frankly sucks at it.

AC1 has set up what could be a simple story. There's Desmond, our unwilling protagonist who needs to raise up for the challenge while at danger from, as it turns out, going crazy. There's our allies, the Assassins, represented by Lucy, who want to keep peace and humanity's free will and battle against the Templars, our antagonists represented by Vidic, who believe that humanity needs to be controlled and intend to do so with the main macguffin artifact. That's actually enough for the amount of time AC games can delegate to Modern Day (cause history is still the main star). If the modern day in Desmond's Saga would be a straight line from that starting point, people wouldn't have any real problems in keeping up. Like, lore, side characters, mysteries, stuff like subject 16, that has to be to the side, to make the world more detailed for those who're into it, but to not have problems explaining anything to those who get from the beginning.

But AC keeps raising up the required knowledge and making the plots more complicated (without having enough playtime in the game to justify it, while we're at it) which keeps raising the bar of entry. The bar of entry for AC2 in terms of Modern Day was very low, due to what AC1 has set up, but by the time of AC3... You need to know who Subject 16 is, because he became an important character, you need to know who The First Civ are, you need to know that the First Civ has different factions, in AC3 you need to know who a character is who wasn't mentioned in the game at all before (that being Daniel Cross) and AC3 itself tries to somehow quickly explain it to people, because the guy is more present in AC3 than Vidic and he's essentially our main Templar antagonist in that game, you need to know that there are two different main plots going on - the satellite one and the solar flare one.... And the problem is, it's to the detriment of the main story itself - it needs so many elements that it can't resolve any of them in a satisfying manner because there's not enough time for that.

And the thing is, despite AC4 kind of resetting that bar somewhat, the stuff started piling up again with Sages, Juno, introducing elements from transmedia like Galina, etc. etc.

this so much!make it simpler but for the love of god keep as much as possible in the games aswell.
they always open up new arcs in the game via the assassin intell and all wich would be great if they actually give us a conclusion to it.
and then they decide to expand these arcs via commics and other media wich means you have to buy those aswell to get the conclusion!
it's already hard to keep up sometimes with all the stuff going on and by putting stuff in the commics it makes it even more drawn out and leaves the actual game itself very empty MD wise.
thank god they got rid of that facebook game xd

pacmanate
11-14-2015, 05:30 PM
MD should not be packaged as DLC.

The reason I liked MD was that it ran parallel to the game. You would go into the Animus looking for a specific thing relevant to the problem occuring in MD.

If the DLC was just modern day I wouldn't like it.


Ubisoft won't listen to us for that we want another 3rd person character or just scrap it. Because lets face it, they don't know what they are doing.

1. 1st person tablet guy
2. "you are the person" and all you get are stupid updates that pull you out the game
3. "You are the person" again and start seeing operatives in the field

They have changed how MD works 3 games in a row. If they knew where Juno was heading, well, we have had 4 games, FOUR games since AC3 and Juno does not seem like a threat at all still.


Honestly, if Juno is such a big threat I don't want to 1st person the Modern Day and see other people fight her.

I want to fight her, with a 3rd person character. It only makes sense that way. Otherwise it just feels like some random thing happening outside my animus experience.

ModernWaffle
11-14-2015, 05:36 PM
I respect your opinion, but I'll respectfully disagree on this point. I only linked one of many polls that show large support for the Modern Day element. But I suppose the only way we'll ever know is if they do a playable DLC, and find out what the sales are. As I said though, thats still a lower risk to them than doing it with the main release.

As farlander1991 said, simplifying the Modern Day may be an answer, as would rebooting it as the DLC. I agree that alot of the convoluted plot has come about due to the reduced Modern Day playtime, so I would imagine a multi hour DLC story would be much better placed to try and resolve a lot of the lingering plot threads that we simply ordinarily don't have time for. Thats another reason alot of it ended up in Initiates and the comics too.

Actually to say not enough people want it is kind of a sweeping generalisation when I don't have the figures with me so fair point; however, the sad part is even if there were a significant proportion who want it I highly doubt Ubisoft will do anything to put MD back on its proper course.

For one it's hard to fix, even if they wanted to reboot it and keep a simple narrative going this is going to be challenge and no doubt take time / money / creative effort to tie all the loose ends. Doesn't help that they're sticking to the annulaisation schedule which leaves them little room to rethink everything.

Secondly, it's an investment that's not worth going through with from Ubisoft's perspective - not having a concentrated MD alone is probably not going to stop a lot of current fans from dropping the franchise since it's not a big enough part of the games. So why risk the move of losing precious production time and potential new fans (who arguably will care less about MD since its so complicated) in order to gain one proportion of the fanbase's respect? DLC MD would be something I would definitely welcome but again, I assume a DLC continuing the historical plot will generally be more popular with the over-arching fanbase and hence offer a better opportunity to get more money.

Admittedly I think game companies should try to respect all their fans, but realistically this can't be done and as always, Ubisoft is understandably a business first so what they're doing does make practical sense to me even if a part of me doesn't want to accept it.



I'm sure Ubisoft has knowledge about the opinions of a much bigger percentage than that.

Just continuing on from my previous point, whatever the percentage of people who want MD back to how it used to be is probably over-weighed by those who don't want it back. I take this from how Ubisoft has reduced the role of MD in recent years from third-person, then to first-person and then to cinematics only.

I-Like-Pie45
11-14-2015, 06:33 PM
current modern day, along with the open world gameplay model, are amongst the things that plague the series and prevent it from reaching its full potential as they encourage a lack of ideas and lazy recycling of gameplay due to the yearly model. As such I believe that the game would be thoroughly improved by removing the "freedom" gameplay and making the entire game - modern day and the other stuff - an interactive movie like a Telltale game because kids love those.

crusader_prophet
11-14-2015, 08:55 PM
Would love to hear your thoughts. :)

I can empathize with your concerns about newcomers of the franchise, and the breadth of lore that AC currently has created for itself. However, I also think that artists and developers need not be limited by these concerns. If they believe or need to rely on past lore to create a compelling modern day narrative that will be the skeleton of the historical settings, then they should do that without hesitation. Because in the end it will create a product that will be adored by everyone. For example, a new gamer like me, I started playing the Witcher series, Mass Effect series, Fallout series, Dragon Age series from a point when there was already huge amount of lore out in the media. But that actually got me more excited and curious. It led me to buy the previous games and also do insane amount of research from alternative mediums. And I did that because I found each game that was produced later in the series were made with the intent to create a complete game with passion and love and a piece of art, and not to cater to the business objectives of the publisher. Money eventually followed, because they deserved it.

Also, DLCs and alternative media should not be an avenue for core experience (if modern day remains a core experience per the developers).

In short, I am trying to say is that while the polls may indicate various preferences out there, what should really drive UbiSoft in modern day space is the creative passion of their developers and the natural next step in the narrative that celebrates the past as well as creates a strong platform to build a future on, and not necessarily driven by numbers or rants.

RVSage
11-14-2015, 09:02 PM
The MD as a DLC is a good idea. But again, it may not satisfy everybody. I feel that Ubisoft should just do what they , feel like doing and what they think offers a good experience to most fans. Because when Ubi caters to specific fan needs we get things like Rogue, dull and boring

dxsxhxcx
11-17-2015, 03:09 PM
Some people have suggested that we make the Modern Day sections optional, but from Ubisoft's standpoint I can see that as being undesirable - do you really want to spend time and resources on a section that alot of players may not even participate in? Doing so would naturally reduce the length of the historical section as well.

IMO this is the best solution, there's no point in forcing people who don't want to be bothered by the MD to play it either, and I feel that by allowing them to skip this part of the game when they see fit, this might make their interest in playing it grow once they are done with the historical tourism.




I want to fight her, with a 3rd person character. It only makes sense that way. Otherwise it just feels like some random thing happening outside my animus experience.

We'll end up in a boss fight against her inside the animus, using the ancestor's avatar..

cawatrooper9
11-17-2015, 03:20 PM
As such I believe that the game would be thoroughly improved by removing the "freedom" gameplay and making the entire game - modern day and the other stuff - an interactive movie like a Telltale game because kids love those.

Oh, Pie... I'm terrible at reading sarcasm over the internet (and in real life, I'm basically a robot) but I hope you're not being serious here...

Sorrosyss
11-21-2015, 01:15 PM
Received a Ubisoft survey today. The modern day cropped up a fair few times. Nice to see it remains a factor in future considerations.

http://i.imgur.com/BtPNhmi.png

http://i.imgur.com/hP2CyJR.png

dxsxhxcx
11-21-2015, 02:25 PM
Received a Ubisoft survey today. The modern day cropped up a fair few times. Nice to see it remains a factor in future considerations.

Share the link to the survey.. :) (if you don't mind, of course)

D.I.D.
11-21-2015, 05:55 PM
Received a Ubisoft survey today

Is that the survey that asks you right at the beginning not to share or screenshot any of the information in the survey? :D

As for my opinion on MD: wrap it up and scrap it, like they did with the "Desmond's ancestors" requirement. There have been so many times when someone asks me to explain AC because they're thinking about playing it, and it all goes wobbly when I have to explain the modern day and TWCB. Either they're put off by the sound of that because they wanted to play a historical adventure, or they swerve because it sounds like too much to catch up on.

There isn't a problem with archaeological relics having magical powers in a video game. We don't need a dense story for it. We're disappointed and surprised if relics *don't* have powers. We can still have those sometimes, and maybe it'll be fun not to have them. If the fight was purely over political power at a pivotal moment in history, that would be fine for me - maybe even better.

I wouldn't be against the occasional game having a modern day half and a historical half when there's a good storyline to support both, but Shaun and Rebecca need to go. Their recurrence is part of this continual expectation of modern day stories and the form they must take, and it's a huge restriction that the series can't bear. I'd rather see the makers exploiting the freedom to tie any modern day struggle to any historical one, and then come up with the right characters for that story.

AdultShotaro
11-21-2015, 07:00 PM
Oh, Pie... I'm terrible at reading sarcasm over the internet (and in real life, I'm basically a robot) but I hope you're not being serious here...

Honestly, I'd would be down for a game like that if it was a spin-off. Especially as it would leave more room for Modern Day. Telltale Games' Assassin's Creed. And I know he's just jerkin' around, but it struck a nerve. It's called an ADVENTURE GAME. It's been around for years. Just Quantic Dream caused a renaissance.


Received a Ubisoft survey today. The modern day cropped up a fair few times. Nice to see it remains a factor in future considerations

http://i.imgur.com/BtPNhmi.png

http://i.imgur.com/hP2CyJR.png

Must have and Must have. Though I would like to play an Initiate now in combat than doing I.T-esque work/Initiate-Damsel (think Rock in Black Lagoon or James Bond in every story he's been in!) who must only survive by puzzle gameplay. More EU characters like Charlotte, Saeko, Chiu, the Ninidze Brothers and micromanagement content for hub worlding/collectables (say eating ramen noodles. collecting souveniers like in Mass Effect.) and to make the world more organic. The way AC4/Rogue did it was pretty hubby but it felt like... just do optional stuff and play the main game. A few side quests wouldn't wouldn't hurt.

Sorrosyss
11-21-2015, 08:06 PM
Is that the survey that asks you right at the beginning not to share or screenshot any of the information in the survey? :D

Hmm, didn't say that on mine? It's just the standard post game survey you get every year, and loads of people posted about last year's.

If there was some warning, it certainly didn't appear for me. Oh well. As with the game, the survey is buggy. :p

D.I.D.
11-21-2015, 08:16 PM
:) I don't think it's possible for it to skip a page, and there can't be more than one official survey right now. Maybe you clicked past it. It was right at the start, and most people have an anti-T&C reflex!

Sorrosyss
11-22-2015, 12:54 AM
I'm still convinced I didn't see any such page, but I'll take your word for it. My apologies to Ubi, for any upset caused. Really wasn't my intent. I'll let a rep delete the above and the quotes if they are not happy with them.

Barlog06
12-06-2015, 03:10 PM
I wanted to write this post a long time ago. About all the things I think Ubisoft did wrong in MD. I will not talk about lack of gameplay in past few games, I’d like to talk about atmosphere.
My favorite MD was in AC1-ACB (Especially ACB). It was great. But then they changed a lot. For example:

1) We don’t need a man with big genealogy of interesting ancestors anymore. In first games we needed the man in the animus. A real man with real story. If Abstergo or assassin’s wanted to know something from the past, they needed to find descendant, kidnap him or talk him into working with you. That was a part of the story! The whole plot with Desmond’s escape, Lucy’s betrayal was possible only because of that. What do we have now? Everyone can search everyone’s memories. Just need to have DNA and that’s all. We don’t need a plot anymore, we don’t need a person. Just put some nameless workers in the animus and they can do all the work. Or Initiates can. Yeath, you play as yourselves… you know what, in real life I don’t fight Templars. The fact that I “play as myself” just ruining all the atmosphere.
2) Animus. It was some really cool machine. You could feel it’s power, technology. You needed to get inside to search for the past. What do we have now? Now animus is just like playstation with virtual reality helmet. It don’t feel like real machine anymore! I personally hate this whole plot with Abstergo entertainment with their computer games. I know that it’s kinda logical, but I still hate it.
3) Conspiracy theory atmosphere. We had it. Mostly because of subject 16. It was awesome! For me it was one of the main cool things in MD. Being in laboratory an AC1, running from Abstergo without knowing what’s going on in AC2. Listening and watching Clay’s messages, listening his paranoid voice. Blood paintings on the wall! Or this message about a man calling in technical support and someone is knocking at his doot right at the end of phone call!
They ruined it back in ACR. You know why? Because what happened after all this strange messages and a final dialogue with Clay? After all this “It’s too late to save them”, “Everything you hope to become, everything you hold dear. It’s already gone”, “Find Eve. The key. Her DNA”. What’s happened when they actually meet? Did they talk about it? No! Didn’t even mention! They talked about some strange things like “Desmond, do you have regrets?”. Yeath, of course, that’s what I couldn’t wait to know about…
And they change the whole conspiracy thing with mystery’s and puzzles to some B-movie sci-fi with precursors , who want to rule the world :/
4) Cliffhangers. We used to have them. And it was awesome! It actually makes you to wait the next game, search info, think of theories. And now every game is on its own. MD is not a full value story anymore. It’s just a set of some facts. If you didn’t play previous games it doesn’t matter anymore. We now don’t even need for “previously on Assassin’s Creed”.


In the end, I’m not really talking about gameplay. IMHO, the whole story, the whole atmosphere is messed-up (In old Initiates site they had this atmosphere back, I think. It was great). And even if they make third person char like Galina in the next game, I don’t think that would work. AC3 had third person Desmond and full missions, but I still hate it. I think MD shouldn’t be about action in modern NY or Brazil. It should be about conspiracy theory, mysteries, plot twists, visiting cool places from old times like Monteriggioni or Colosseum, or mb something like Egyptian Pyramids. And mb some hacking as well to learn secret information like in “The Truth”.

At least, I see it that way. I’m not asking Ubisoft to do something that takes a lot of time, like doing missions similar to AC3. Just put me in some cave or old ruins, not even big and hard to do, make it small. Give me some other characters to talk to. Return the mystery. Give me cliffhanger to wait for MD for the next game.
Make some plot twists. In Q&A I heard, that MD is hard to do and it requires resources. But, for example, main MD plot twist in AC2 (“The rest is up to you, Desmond”) didn’t even happen in modern times, it happened in the past! It didn’t require any actual resources to make, just mind of writer! Main location in AC2 was some storage, was it hard to make? But it was amazing! We need more things like that!
And please, finish this plot with Juno. It just going and going. And nothing really happening.


P.S. Sorry for my english

Sesheenku
12-06-2015, 07:16 PM
As sad as it is to say... use Deus ex machina to bring Desmond back. That's about it. It's not like the writing is any better anyways so hell at least go ham with it and make it interesting again...

I don't particularly care for Desmond but holy crap this is annoying as hell getting interrupted by 5 second cutscenes. Either gimme something to play or remove it okay?

Look at me Ubisoft. LOOK AT ME. You do not have the ability to write a story with "us" as the protagonist. You can't do it. Stop trying. Stop it. STOP. Bad Ubisoft. No treats for you this week. (≧_≦ᚌ)

Ureh
12-06-2015, 10:37 PM
Make William relive his son's memories, get the bleeding effect! Done, now you've got a 30 yr old guy in the body of his mid-60s father. Then they could use one of the PoE to reverse Bill's aging.

It could work...

Megas_Doux
12-07-2015, 03:19 AM
Modern day has ALWAYS been a stillborn:

1 When its story mattered, the mechanics of the franchise outside parkour/navigation were really sub-par, incapable of sustaining a game or even something of a decent size. Do I have to remind you that Abstergo -the all-mighty, supreme and all almost omniscient company in charge of everything and anything in the world- trusted their dreams of total world domination in the hands people that instead of this:

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--SeW6ZxMX--/194yrfojto6z5jpg.jpg

Looked more like this:

http://bltcommunications.com/content/2009/e6177b46992e414b28c35c004002e10f/7da71b574ba5ec179e0235568c5c2dc2/asset.jpg

The escape of Abstergo in AC II and the 'infiltration' mission in AC III are one of the most cringe worthy things EVER in the franchise. And now that, the mechanics are decent, the story is just dead. They clearly don't know what to do with it and annualization is not exactly helping....

Ureh
12-07-2015, 07:29 PM
The AC-gameplay, translated directly, just doesn't really work in modern day. They would have to create a whole new set of rules and tools and everything else. Sneaking, crouching, air assassinations, parkour, corner kills, batons, hidden blades, etc... those won't work by themselves because it's not convincing enough or practical in a modern day setting. There was hardly any stealth in some of the missions. Parkour would be a lot harder to include in a cities that should have wide streets and skyscrapers. What little parkour that was present in the linear missions did feel appropriate but can't compare to the open world in the animus. It's kinda like the cities in the animus are real world and the present day missions are a bad dream (I don't blame anyone who doesn't want to take the red pill). We're expecting Abstergo agents to be equipped with x-ray goggles, super duper laser x-ray checkpoints, attack dogs/cats, machine guns, hunting knives, reverse engineered hidden blades, booby trapped rooms, gas bombs, stun grenades, and super duper ultra defensible fortresses (both above and below ground). Instead they got one handgun that takes a few seconds to fire and batons.

Assuming it wasn't a ruse by Lucy/Vidic to trick Desmond, he was also supposed to be rescued by 5-6 Assassins but it didn't go very well remember? I'm guessing this is how Desmond should've ended up when he was escaping Abstergo HQ, then escaping the hideout, infiltrating Abstergo again, and all the events that happened in between them:

2 pages from AC The Fall epilogue

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dsZU5RPqkdo/UUekh-5iEvI/AAAAAAACSok/YxMkgdCv-tQ/w800-h800/AssassinsCreed_007.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JnY1q6OeGNY/UUek7VowvdI/AAAAAAACSo8/cRMTCMyFF_k/w800-h800/AssassinsCreed_010.jpg


Hopefully one day - but not too late - they go all out with the present day but will also retain the gameplay quality in the animus. They've built multiple in a single game before. Except this time two cities... one in the present, one in the past. I think after all this time we know the devs can do it! Let them do it! Do it! Do it!

Civona
12-07-2015, 10:52 PM
solution: stop trying to make it like the other ones or fulfill whatever promise people thought was made. use it in interesting ways that aren't just aimed at furthering a huge mega-story.

orionsrise
12-09-2015, 01:45 AM
This is a complicated question that I've been pondering since Black Flag and unfortunately I don't think I have a great answer for it. Ubisoft has spit-balled quite a few ideas since the death of Desmond (whether the first person Immersive of black flag, the couch potato version field operative of Both Unity and Syndicate, Which kind of stem from the failed Initiates initiative which kind of stem from the multiplayer narrative. More on that soon.) I loved the Desmond storyline and was essential to the games. We NEEDED an interruption from the future to drive the urgency factor to remind you that there is a goal to complete in the past. The question now is, do we STILL need a modern day character like Desmond, or can that need be filled by an avatar of ourselves the way the devs are trying to do now? I think it can be accomplished using the avatars of ourselves in a unique and fun filled way and it might not go over real well but here me out with this idea........ Re-institute the multiplayer. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO, DON'T TURN AWAY YET, NO NO NO NO NO NO HEAR ME OUT PLEASE!!!!! :)
What takes the longest time is the research bout all the relevant topics of the specific time frames of the history they want to explore, next longest is building the world from scratch and coding it. Add to it all the looming deadlines when everything has to be crystalized and moved on to the next hands. All these things can lead to the devs having great ideas and concepts but laying a turd of a release. My solution with the multiplayer is two fold, to provide a constant platform that can be updated while still allowing to immerse ourselves in the modern day narrative. And two, solve the yearly release conundrums of poor executions. With the Multiplayer set in modern times we can actually fight it out amongst ourselves while trying to unlock the stories as the unfold in front of us. We can even re-think how the missions work entirely because I know not everyone likes how the old way worked. Smaller updates to this kind of platform yearly while the structure is still in place allows for more time to work on the historical narratives and polish the hell out of them. Well it's an idea at least.

D.I.D.
12-09-2015, 03:14 AM
solution: stop trying to make it like the other ones or fulfill whatever promise people thought was made. use it in interesting ways that aren't just aimed at furthering a huge mega-story.

Maybe they could make modern day but in the past, and write each moment as an contained event that can be understood and wrapped up within each game.

For example, "modern day" in 1977 - the young William Miles stealing the first Animus blueprints, sneaking back to HQ with them, and learning secrets about Abstergo's observations and progress as he goes. Or maybe a group of assassins breaking into an Abstergo facility and barricading themselves inside an Animus lab while one of their team uses an early prototype machine to locate a PoE in the past. Or the assassins using their first self-built Animus. You could even have a modern day portion set further in the past - what if the assassins once found a PoE with the ability to allow the bearer to relive past lives? That PoE could be the inspiration for the Animus technology in the first place.

cawatrooper9
12-09-2015, 03:45 PM
Maybe they could make modern day but in the past, and write each moment as an contained event that can be understood and wrapped up within each game.

For example, "modern day" in 1977 - the young William Miles stealing the first Animus blueprints, sneaking back to HQ with them, and learning secrets about Abstergo's observations and progress as he goes. Or maybe a group of assassins breaking into an Abstergo facility and barricading themselves inside an Animus lab while one of their team uses an early prototype machine to locate a PoE in the past. Or the assassins using their first self-built Animus. You could even have a modern day portion set further in the past - what if the assassins once found a PoE with the ability to allow the bearer to relive past lives? That PoE could be the inspiration for the Animus technology in the first place.

Interesting thought- and that way, even if we "needed" an actual MD, we could still have our non-interactive cutscenes as well, explaining that we're using the genetic memories of who ever the subject from the '70s is.

dxsxhxcx
12-09-2015, 05:02 PM
Maybe they could make modern day but in the past, and write each moment as an contained event that can be understood and wrapped up within each game.

For example, "modern day" in 1977 - the young William Miles stealing the first Animus blueprints, sneaking back to HQ with them, and learning secrets about Abstergo's observations and progress as he goes. Or maybe a group of assassins breaking into an Abstergo facility and barricading themselves inside an Animus lab while one of their team uses an early prototype machine to locate a PoE in the past. Or the assassins using their first self-built Animus. You could even have a modern day portion set further in the past - what if the assassins once found a PoE with the ability to allow the bearer to relive past lives? That PoE could be the inspiration for the Animus technology in the first place.

While I think the main problem with the MD isn't story related but gameplay related (the story is OK, the problem is its execution), you have some interesting ideas here, the one about a bunch of Assassins barricading themselves inside an Animus lab is pretty interesting, I could totally see the modern day sections starting as an infiltration mission where our team pretend to be Abstergo employees (from janitors to scientists, what could lead to different kind of interactions and gameplay opportunities during the modern missions), making night visits to the Animus to relive someone's ancestor, but that goes wrong at some point (near the end of the game) forcing them to barricate themselves inside the lab, with the animus' user starting to show the side effects of the Bleeding Effect... :)

SunderedStar
12-12-2015, 07:34 AM
I feel like they could make an interesting game if they went into the near future instead of relying exclusively on the world as it currently is. For example, a world war 3 scenario where the cities inhabitants are subject the the brutal rule of the invading forces, executing inhabitants, rationing food and whatnot. The assassins are working to end that rule. Would combine large crowded modern cities with a warlike atmosphere, with enemy troops on every street corner, as it were. So the assassins going full soldier would be expected.

Sorrosyss
12-12-2015, 03:49 PM
This is a complicated question that I've been pondering since Black Flag and unfortunately I don't think I have a great answer for it. Ubisoft has spit-balled quite a few ideas since the death of Desmond (whether the first person Immersive of black flag, the couch potato version field operative of Both Unity and Syndicate, Which kind of stem from the failed Initiates initiative which kind of stem from the multiplayer narrative. More on that soon.) I loved the Desmond storyline and was essential to the games. We NEEDED an interruption from the future to drive the urgency factor to remind you that there is a goal to complete in the past. The question now is, do we STILL need a modern day character like Desmond, or can that need be filled by an avatar of ourselves the way the devs are trying to do now? I think it can be accomplished using the avatars of ourselves in a unique and fun filled way and it might not go over real well but here me out with this idea........ Re-institute the multiplayer. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO, DON'T TURN AWAY YET, NO NO NO NO NO NO HEAR ME OUT PLEASE!!!!! :)
What takes the longest time is the research bout all the relevant topics of the specific time frames of the history they want to explore, next longest is building the world from scratch and coding it. Add to it all the looming deadlines when everything has to be crystalized and moved on to the next hands. All these things can lead to the devs having great ideas and concepts but laying a turd of a release. My solution with the multiplayer is two fold, to provide a constant platform that can be updated while still allowing to immerse ourselves in the modern day narrative. And two, solve the yearly release conundrums of poor executions. With the Multiplayer set in modern times we can actually fight it out amongst ourselves while trying to unlock the stories as the unfold in front of us. We can even re-think how the missions work entirely because I know not everyone likes how the old way worked. Smaller updates to this kind of platform yearly while the structure is still in place allows for more time to work on the historical narratives and polish the hell out of them. Well it's an idea at least.

Well Ubisoft has released two games a year before. If they were to spin off the mulitplayer into its own game cycle, it certainly would be a great way to explore the Modern Day, if we and all of our friends could create our own characters. Something akin to GTA Online, with a persistent world I like to think of. But then this still comes back to the original question, if Ubisoft is willing to risk such a move with the franchise reputation of historical tourism. For the record, I love the idea though.

SWalker82
12-18-2015, 01:53 AM
The original Modern Day Story hooked people because they wrote it out and knew how they wanted it to end. I don't think they thought the game would be so successful to be able to carry on for 10 or so games.

Now they are stuck with the unknown. What I mean by this is that they do not know if the series will be 2-3 more games or 5 for example. So in my opinion they won't have a good modern day story until they figure out how many games they have left in the tank.

Although they can simple just create a modern day story and have it end after a couple of games and just have a new modern day story every couple of games or something of the sort.

Sesheenku
12-18-2015, 03:06 AM
This isn't even hard...

The answer is in front of them. What did they do with Ezio when he had gained vengeance over everything? Why not let one of the groups win? Then instead of conflict in the story it is a time of technological and philosophical advancement in the modern day. Bring rise to modern day pirates and explorers anew somehow or hell make the assassins more like their old fashioned selves and bring them full circle.

They are foolishly letting themselves be rooted to realism and the contemporary time period, they need to allow themselves a bit more room to grow.

Imagine the groups waging little battles throughout the world all of them aided by pieces of eden, unstoppable by the common militaries and law enforcement, battling bitterly to find some more artifacts in the modern day in a race to defeat each other. **** make an excuse that guns don't work as well by having the Templars/Assassins mass produce a slightly less effective artifact of eden that slows and decreases bullet damage.

The only thing that is stopping them MODERN day wise is the box they refuse to exit that they created for themselves in the first place.

orionsrise
12-18-2015, 06:32 AM
Well Ubisoft has released two games a year before. If they were to spin off the mulitplayer into its own game cycle, it certainly would be a great way to explore the Modern Day, if we and all of our friends could create our own characters. Something akin to GTA Online, with a persistent world I like to think of. But then this still comes back to the original question, if Ubisoft is willing to risk such a move with the franchise reputation of historical tourism. For the record, I love the idea though.
Thanks for the space to explore it :) . The modern day story is what got me hooked into the AC series way back in AC1. (that ending tho am I right) Concerns about the PvP of the Multi-player needs to be addressed though. While I think that it should be a part of it, it can't hold it together by itself. Wolfpack Isn't a solid solution either, so I really don't have a fully fleshed out idea but it's something. Maybe put in a "hacking" mode, a puzzle solving thing like subject 16 messages in AC2 and Brotherhood. A recon mode for other mission setups. Just spitballin I guess. As to whether or not Ubisoft has the Constitution to try an Idea like this? I have no answer, Business decisions are extremely tight for Ubi right now. So an idea has to be wholly solid in order for them to do ANY thing, let alone out of the box.

Civona
12-18-2015, 08:19 AM
the solution is to try to tell a more integrated dual narrative, where people in the present are actually paying attention to and making observations about the past they're experiencing, and then applying that not only in a literal sense (we found where he hid the key) but in a philosophical sense (how can we become better through what we've learned about this assassin's life?).

more specifically: make us play as a character who is their own distinct person, but whose role is in leadership/support, not in running around stabbing stuff. So it would make more sense that they'd be the one sifting through genetic memories and then occasionally doing something or going somewhere. Leave all the active free-roaming to the animus portions, make the modern day focused entirely on storytelling. dialogue choices would be a cool thing to let you engage with when exploring a small out-of-animus area, as would reading emails.

DeceivingEric
12-18-2015, 08:46 PM
Basically, bring back a Desmond-like present day (like Brotherhood's). That's what I'm waiting for since the end of AC3, but instead we got Black Flag's boring story/gameplay and then Unity's cutscenes and useless story (ugh). No wonder why newcomers aren't attrated to the MD, Ubi isn't even trying to make it appeling anymore. Even Syndicate with its cutscenes filled with action are boring, I'm not here to watch a short film, but to play a video game. The only hope I have left of a good MD is the movie's, the first pistures shows Abstergo so I'm expecting something good.