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CaptainGelo
06-18-2004, 12:54 AM
I know its leaked patch and everything, but is that how 50cals must be?

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http://www.danasoft.com/sig/oleg86.jpg
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plane is 2slow, guns are 2weak and DM suck?...Then click here (http://www.hmp16.com/hotstuff/downloads/Justin%20Timberlake%20-%20Cry%20Me%20A%20River.mp3) | Fear british army. (http://216.144.230.195/Videos/Medium_WMP8/British_Attack.wmv)

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif
Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when they come for you..

CaptainGelo
06-18-2004, 12:54 AM
I know its leaked patch and everything, but is that how 50cals must be?

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''
http://www.danasoft.com/sig/oleg86.jpg
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''


plane is 2slow, guns are 2weak and DM suck?...Then click here (http://www.hmp16.com/hotstuff/downloads/Justin%20Timberlake%20-%20Cry%20Me%20A%20River.mp3) | Fear british army. (http://216.144.230.195/Videos/Medium_WMP8/British_Attack.wmv)

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif
Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when they come for you..

Gibbage1
06-18-2004, 01:30 AM
I think so! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif They are still worse then all other HMG's but not nearly as bad as they werel. I think its an acceptable middle ground.

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

Dawg-of-death
06-18-2004, 01:53 AM
Yep

BadM-F(Mongrel-Fighter)...... AKA Dawg-of-death
Former Member... Kelly Johnsons...Skunk Works

tttiger
06-18-2004, 02:13 AM
Some comments from Tony Williams (you may want to bookmark the link, it's a good reference):

"The American Browning .50 M2 is an undistinguished performer, particularly when compared with its closest competitor, the 12.7 mm Berezin. The relatively small incendiary content in the .50 API (0.9 g instead of 2 g) gives the Soviet round a flying start, which it adds to by its usefully higher rate of fire, then finishes off in style by being lighter as well, and thereby almost twice as efficient overall. The Browning also makes an interesting comparison with the Japanese Ho-5, which was basically the M2 slightly scaled up to take 20 mm cartridges.

"It may appear that this low score of the .50 M2 is in disagreement with the satisfactory experience the USAAF had with this weapon. The answer to this apparent contradiction is that the .50 M2 proved very effective against fighters and (not too sturdy) bombers, if installed in sufficient numbers. Six or eight guns were specified as standard armament, resulting in a destructive power total of 360 or 480, at the cost of a rather high installed weight. Most American fighters were sufficiently powerful to have a high performance despite this weight penalty. Incidentally, the mediocre efficiency score of the .50 M2 is not only an effect of the low chemical content of its projectiles. Even if only the kinetic energy were considered, the efficiency of this gun would remain inferior to that of the UBS, B-20, ShVAK or Hispano, although better than that of the MK 108 or MG-FFM. To sum up, the preferred US armament fit was effective for its purpose, but not very efficient by comparison with cannon.

"A further validation of the calculations is provided by the outcome of tests by the USN, which stated that the 20 mm Hispano was about three times as destructive as the .50 M2. In the above table, the ratio between their scores is 3.3."

Here's the link:

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm

From what I've read elsewhere, the decision to rely primarily on the .50 BMG in US planes came from a desire for more seconds of firing time than could be achieved with a cannon. The best in that regard was the Hellcat with 6x50 and 500 rounds per gun. Even the Jug with "Extra Ammo" holds only 350 rounds per gun.

Haven't tried the leaked patch yet (and won't), so I have no opinion on the fix. But, even if it is accurate, you aren't going to turn any American fighter into a Yak-9K.

The Mk-108 clearly was the most effective gun of the war so long as the ammo held out. I suspect that's why so many in here fly LW: They're making up for lousy gunnery by carring an elephant gun. I would say Noob gun, but I don't use that term http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If the dispersion on the .50 is improved, I'll be happy. Even with bad dispersion my Jug takes down lots of bad guyshttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Read through this web site if you haven't before. Lots of good stuff to argue about http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

Menthol_moose
06-18-2004, 02:39 AM
The accuracy is now fixed and is compariable to every other MG in the game.

As to the power, its still a very open debate !

Tully__
06-19-2004, 05:46 AM
Hokay, take 2 {snap}

Let's keep it civil this time. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

=================================================


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Salut
Tully

VW-IceFire
06-19-2004, 06:43 AM
Now that the shotgun is gone and its replaced by a very competent machine gun I have no problems with the .50cal. You do have to aim better now but the end result is that you have a concentrated stream of fire. You can now target areas on a fighter or bomber and rake that area with fire.

The end result I believe makes it look quite a bit more like the stuff I've seen in the gun camera footage. Multiple flashes followed by structural failure, fuel tank fire, engine going out, etc.

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RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Hoarmurath
06-19-2004, 06:46 AM
http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/thefarcebewithyou.jpg

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/)

crazyivan1970
06-19-2004, 07:05 AM
On noooo, not another 50 cal thread. Do you guys ever get tired of this? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

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VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

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http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Chuck_Older
06-19-2004, 07:35 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif I don't have any issue with the point fifties and I don't have the leaky patch. I don't expect enemy aircraft to disintegrate just because a 12.7mm wide chunk of metal hit it, I guess http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

Tully__
06-19-2004, 09:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
On noooo, not another 50 cal thread. Do you guys ever get tired of this? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should have seen it before I took the shears to it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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IL2 Forums Moderator
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Salut
Tully

BS87
06-19-2004, 10:49 AM
Yeah, me and some other kinda got outta hand. Good thing tully still keeps the extra large shears in the back http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hoarmurath
06-19-2004, 10:59 AM
According to a recent discussion in this forum, Me323 Gigant is one of the toughest planes in FB.

This track is 2.01

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/files/puny50.zip

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/)

LeadSpitter_
06-19-2004, 11:41 AM
To have a better understanding of weapon effectiveness check these gun camera tapes out showing gun camera from all nations

http://www.historicaviation.com/historicaviation/search_results.po;jsessionid=wadeNcl5JLEYjxbIdtdVF 6EB(0CppkxPt)?product=&category=&search=gun+camera

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

Dawg-of-death
06-19-2004, 11:44 AM
Waych out for that large stik.......LOL

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BS87:
Yeah, me and some other kinda got outta hand. Good thing tully still keeps the extra large shears in the back http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BadM-F(Mongrel-Fighter)...... AKA Dawg-of-death
Former Member... Kelly Johnsons...Skunk Works

CaptainGelo
06-20-2004, 04:03 AM
thx tully http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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http://www.danasoft.com/sig/oleg86.jpg
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''


plane is 2slow, guns are 2weak and DM suck?...Then click here (http://www.hmp16.com/hotstuff/downloads/Justin%20Timberlake%20-%20Cry%20Me%20A%20River.mp3) | Fear british army. (http://216.144.230.195/Videos/Medium_WMP8/British_Attack.wmv)

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif
Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when they come for you..

Owlsphone
06-20-2004, 07:39 AM
I wasn't going to download the patch until it was official but my squad flies with the leaked one so oh well...Anyway, flying a P51D in my first sortie with the patch and encounter a Sturmovik down low, dive down expecting a few passes to at least shred him up a little, quick burst of fire and his wing collapses. I almost flew into his spiraling wreck because i wasnt expecting to make an evasive maneuver after that little burst of fire.

Anyway, at convergence the fifties are awesome. They do take some aiming however so don't expect to spray and pray.

Vertically challenged since 1984.