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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 01:51 PM
Well I read alot about this plane can take this many hits or my guns are to weak but how many of us know how many shots hit?

Try this program you will be very supprised how many bullets really hit the mark.

http://www.sturmolog.heatware.de/english/e_download.html

No1RAAF_Pourshot


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Ride it like ya stole it.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 01:51 PM
Well I read alot about this plane can take this many hits or my guns are to weak but how many of us know how many shots hit?

Try this program you will be very supprised how many bullets really hit the mark.

http://www.sturmolog.heatware.de/english/e_download.html

No1RAAF_Pourshot


http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG

Ride it like ya stole it.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 02:09 PM
7% is not that high. Average skills in shooting of most pilots - online - is around 10-18%.



"......und mein Herz steigt wie ein Falke in die Lüfte!"

EJGr.Ost Kimura

http://www.jagdgruppe-ost.de/image/ejgrost.gif



Message Edited on 09/16/0302:18PM by KIMURA

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 02:12 PM
I'm pretty good as long as I don't get my prop stuck in their rudder first. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 02:17 PM
I'm a terrible shot but a CEM edge riding mofo. I can outfly, out manuever and out dogfight any jock in FB which is awesome up til the point I call my wingman for him to make the kill.

Ahh, the wonderful ironies of online dogfighting.

TX-Zen
Black 6
TX Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM only)


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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 02:26 PM
I can't hit the broad-side of a barn if I press the gun against it. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

<p align="center">http://hometown.aol.de/Deathbrng/262sig.jpg</p><p align="center">No guns, no glory!'</p><p align="center">That is why I recommend 4 x 30mm MK108 pills!</p><p align="center">HL Nick = BLUE_Schnitter</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 02:28 PM
KIMURA wrote:
- 7% is not that high. Average skills in shooting of
- most pilots - online - is around 10-18%.
-
-
-

Actually, 7% is slightly above average for online pilots. The better shots average over 10%. Here is a link that summarizes the 3000+ pilots and their shooting skills. Of the 3000+ that have played on the server, only a handful (the top ten) are averaging over 10%.

Take a look: http://209.209.44.31/il2/stats/archivestats.html



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/_uimages/p47atm.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 05:10 PM
I'm risky. I just shoot at so short distances I can almost punch the target myself. So my stats are really high, 20-25% or so. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The bad part is that I tend to put myself in disadvantage & dangerous situations by trying desperately to retain the target in my sight, and collisions are frequent, too. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 06:42 PM
I HAVE 5 % in p47(AND I THINK ITS GOOD 4 that plane)
and I have about 20 when I fly p39...and about same in yak3, and 10-15 in LA/i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif <<<<GOOD????

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adlabs6
09-16-2003, 06:50 PM
I am not that good a shot. Sometimes I am most frustrated by this, especially when I've flown well and still can't finish the job.

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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 07:16 PM
Gunnery is BY FAR the most frustrating aspect of FB for me. At first I thought the gunnery was way toned down and I needed to just get used to it. After getting nailed repeatedly on deflection shots and from fairly long range, I have come to realize that somehow it's just that I can't catch on. Coming from Aces High where I was actually a pretty decent shot, I find myself taking long breaks after a very discouraging night of firing away and hitting nothing.

I don't mean to sound like I'm whinning here because I know it's just me as I see the other pilots hitting their targets. I have tried every convergence setting that can be tried and nothing seems to work. I have noticed however that I score hits a little better in the LW birds so I have come to pretty much stay with the 109s and 190s.

One thing that has helped me is using zoom. Once I get in the saddle, I find that if I zoom in before opening fire, I can see better where the shots are going and adjust a little better. I refused to do this for the longest time because I felt zooming was cheating. The frustration level has pushed me far enough to not care about that.

If anyone has any advice they'd be willing to share I would definitely appreciate it. I really love this sim but the frustration over gunnery is really stealing the joy.

After reading adlabs6's et. al. remarks I'm apparently not alone on this.

===
-mark
Bo.Deenamah

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 07:23 PM
I find deflextion shooting really hard /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
cannons tend to shake the plane about, putting u off target, short bursts and use limited ammo
force yourself to hit /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 08:07 PM
I wldnt rely too much on statistics bcause its hardly ever
acurate.(in any field of tests).

1. how acurate depends on so many things in combat even luck
so statisticly u even have to incorporate how many percent luck shall be calculated for example an average pilot.

2.Distance and weaponeffect is another parameter= from what distance did u hit ur target 20m or 600m, thats a big difference.

3. was it 1 on 1 combat or in a furball or Ace or novice that u downed. Was it in a "good" or "bad" plane?

this is a few thougths.

I use calculated spraying with my bullets alot. When a friendly is in trouble time is valuable and u have to get the bandit from his 6 imideatly. That means u cant always wait until u are close. so at great distance i spray against the foe to hit and show that I'm there. what I'm trying to say is that I may use up most of my ammo on distance shots and kill or damage the bandit= in the statistics it looks bad.= it dsnt really say anything about skills or not.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 08:10 PM
If I jumped from the roof - I couldn´t hit the ground. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
I´m crap at shooting but I can spend a whole lot of ammo!

S!

M0NS



"Blow up the outside world"

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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 08:20 PM
I think that deflextion shooting is easyer then shooting from the 6....I can use all my ammo in p39 and dont hit enemy from 6 especialy from close distance, but from long or just deflextion shooting I have no problems....I can hit with thaty 37mm cannon in many ways(impossible 2 others) /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif I just love when SOMEbody screems and calling me a cheater when I hit him from 0.70 or when he fly past me/i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 09:50 PM
Depends on the guns.

With the Hurricane .303s I'm getting as good as I was in CFS1 & 2. Which was pretty darned good! Just have the knack of deflection shooting with .303s. Great fun.

Mediocre with .50s. Average with IL2 canons and maybe below average with the larger cannons like on the P-39Q, IL2-3M, or the FW-190.



"Official Lancaster Whiner"

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:02 PM
Beirut wrote:
- Depends on the guns.
-
- With the Hurricane .303s I'm getting as good as I
- was in CFS1 & 2. Which was pretty darned good! Just
- have the knack of deflection shooting with .303s.
- Great fun.
-
- Mediocre with .50s. Average with IL2 canons and
- maybe below average with the larger cannons like on
- the P-39Q, IL2-3M, or the FW-190.
-
-
-
-
-
- *[B]"Official Lancaster Whiner"[B]*

ROTFLMAOOL

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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:04 PM
i feel that im a pretty good shot. i never just start shooting wildly when i see a plane, i try to sneak up on them and only shoot when i know i can hit them.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:07 PM
How good a shot am I? Silly question my son. Buffalo Bill was my great great grandfather. It's in the genes.


btw..Wolf is a cheater.

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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:07 PM
Thunderbolt56 wrote:

- Actually, 7% is slightly above average for online
- pilots. The better shots average over 10%. Here is a
- link that summarizes the 3000+ pilots and their
- shooting skills. Of the 3000+ that have played on
- the server, only a handful (the top ten) are
- averaging over 10%.

Really?? We made some testing after that tool came out in the early IL-2 days. Someone constantly had over 20%, IIRC around 23%. After some more training my average percentage rised close to 20%, but I didn't felt that as high. All tests were made on CME-server with FR settings.



"......und mein Herz steigt wie ein Falke in die Lüfte!"

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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:12 PM
snomhf, hey man I don't know why you think zooming would ever be considered a cheat all that does is make the recticle much closer to its real life size on most computers while giving up tons of SA that you would still have in RL. So it is in no way cheating. On the other hand I try not to use it because I don't want to give up my SA. But sometimes, for the longer range shots it is useful. What distance are you shooting at? For most guns I set convergence at 150 meters. At this distance it should be much easier to hit. After you have some practice at 150 try longer range shots. But normaly anything past 300 is pretty iffy.


Snoop Baron

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:21 PM
well when im in the me-262 my shot is damn good. if there are no external views, i can almost always kill a plane on one pass.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:24 PM
My online hit % is around 26%, offline it's even higher but that's not so strange once one has found out the weaknesses of the AI.

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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:27 PM
Sirtaxster,

Boy, you sure laugh easilly. What's your secret? Do you just find .303s ticklish or are you merely trollish?



"Official Lancaster Whiner"

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:27 PM
I can pierce your ears with a Mk108 at 1 meter.



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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:32 PM
Let's just put it this way--it's a good thing the ammunition is free because I'd have bankrupted a government or two flying in service.

Not so oddly, I have found myself gravitating to planes with greater one hit/kill ability like the P-39 and anything featuring a Mk108.

I find that on deflection shooting, I am better above and below than horizontally. Weird.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:36 PM
Depends on what plane you are using. In a P-47 I adverage about 9-15%.
S!
47|FC=-

fluke39
09-16-2003, 11:45 PM
VMF513_Wolf wrote:
- I think that deflextion shooting is easyer then
- shooting from the 6....I can use all my ammo in p39
- and dont hit enemy from 6 especialy from close
- distance, but from long or just deflextion shooting
- I have no problems....I can hit with thaty 37mm
- cannon in many ways(impossible 2 others)

yes - i am the same i can do some amazing long distance deflection shots sometimes - yet on 6 i miss loads.

i guess it's like pool or snooker - alot of people i know can do angle shots but not straight on shots.

<center><img src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flukelogo.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 01:41 AM
KIMURA wrote:
- Thunderbolt56 wrote:
-
-- Actually, 7% is slightly above average for online
-- pilots. The better shots average over 10%. Here is a
-- link that summarizes the 3000+ pilots and their
-- shooting skills. Of the 3000+ that have played on
-- the server, only a handful (the top ten) are
-- averaging over 10%.
-
- Really?? We made some testing after that tool came
- out in the early IL-2 days. Someone constantly had
- over 20%, IIRC around 23%. After some more training
- my average percentage rised close to 20%, but I
- didn't felt that as high. All tests were made on
- CME-server with FR settings.
-
-
-


KIMURA,

I'm not trying to argue or prove anything. Scroll through the stats an look at the %'s. Many pilots have very high %'s and others don't. You can also look at the number of shots fired. If I try really hard and only look at one sortie (1500 rds or so), I can stay over 30-40%. Especially if I specialize at bomber-busting. Yes, there are many variables, but 7% isn't bad.

This is not fact, but there were some interviews with some RL WWII aces who said they felt they were achieving about 10% strikes on average. (I know how you guys are so I'll look for the article)

It also depends on the Aircraft you fly. (duh) When I spent much time in the Yak 3 (which I rarely fly anymore), I averaged just under 20%.

For what it's worth.



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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 01:48 AM
Good enough to get you down before you get me.

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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 01:49 AM
I guess you guys arn't impressed by Buffalo Bill.

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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 02:01 AM
adlabs6 wrote:
- I am not that good a shot. Sometimes I am most
- frustrated by this, especially when I've flown well
- and still can't finish the job.
-

I just flat out stink. Last night, I had a Ju-87 flying low and slow, and I had a La5FN. Couldn't finish him off. He was doing a lot of jinking, and it was low so I had to be extra careful, blah blah, excuses excuses, laser rear gunner, waahhh. I'm a lamer shooter.

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 09:16 AM
lately ive been living up to my nickname

i can chase with the best of them ( that dont have trim sorted that is ) but my shooting is way more off since the patch

ive had over 50 % accuracy ( according to the IL2 Manager ) some nights but not since the patch



btw Buffalo Bill had so many Buffalo in front of his train he could trip fling his gun into the next carriage & still have ended up with a kill

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 09:43 AM
Rocrawler wrote:
- I guess you guys arn't impressed by Buffalo Bill.

Nope.

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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 09:45 AM
I think my best is around 15% although I don't shoot very much. I tend to hit a lot of aircraft, and down few. I typically get the pilot or if it's a BF-109 I blow out their engine.

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 09:58 AM
WUAF_Badsight wrote:
-
- btw Buffalo Bill had so many Buffalo in front of his
- train he could trip fling his gun into the next
- carriage & still have ended up with a kill

Not possible - Bill died in 1917 and the first Brewsters flew in 1938...

My hit% is usually pretty close to 15% - I fire only when I'm pretty sure about hitting anything (i.e. I'm on my target's six and less than 100 meters away). However, I don't get there too often so me killing someone online is pretty rare thing :-)


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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:13 AM
Well back in the day when I flew mostly Lagg3 43 my hit rate was around 20% or more but with the wing guns in the p40 it's much closer to 7-10%.

But the reason I started this thread was to let the people new to FB know about sturmolog it's a fun tool.

I would love to hear what they have to say about just how many shots hit the mark as compared to how many they thought was hitting /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif .

No1RAAF_Pourshot


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Ride it like ya stole it.

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 12:57 PM
VMF513_Wolf wrote:
- I think that deflextion shooting is easyer then
- shooting from the 6....I can use all my ammo in p39
- and dont hit enemy from 6 especialy from close
- distance, but from long or just deflextion shooting
- I have no problems....

I completely agree with Wolf; firing from the 6 is firing at a inverted'T' or cross, while deflection shooting is firing at a much larger target; with deflection, it all comes down to timing your shot and I managed to rip my victim's wing of with either one or two shots while passing me by. Favorite targets when flying my P-39N1 are the Fw [before & after the patch], probably because of their larger size. Without bragging too much, a one shot, one kill has happened on several occasions - but I'm very bad in shaking someone on my 6 off http://forums.ubi.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


The funniest thing about deflection is downing planes while flying a Il-2, which I tend to use as a fighter; you won't believe how many on-line pilots fly their plane in front of me after they tried to shoot me from my 6; such behaviour is just asking for it http://forums.ubi.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Roast

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 01:45 PM
A word (or two) from the inept.

I found practicing deflection shooting with the Stuka G helped.

Duuno why?

BG

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 02:18 PM
Tylymiez wrote:
- Not possible - Bill died in 1917 and the first
- Brewsters flew in 1938...

Who said anything about Brewsters, we are talking about this:

http://sunnyokanagan.com/nabuffalo/images/spades2.jpg




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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 02:02 PM
Snoop_Baron wrote:
- snomhf, hey man I don't know why you think zooming
- would ever be considered a cheat

Maybe because you can't do that in RL??

===
-mark
Bo.Deenamah

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 02:38 PM
snomhf wrote:
- Snoop_Baron wrote:
-- snomhf, hey man I don't know why you think zooming
-- would ever be considered a cheat
-
- Maybe because you can't do that in RL??
-
- ===
--mark
- Bo.Deenamah

Yes you can...the zoom feature essentially gives us what a pilot could do if he wanted to. Hunker up in the cockpit or just focus his eyes on the ret to get the best possible aim on target. The computer screen is POOR and INACCURATE compaired to the pilot actually sitting in the cockpit...the eye is on several magnitudes more accurate and more capable than your relatively "high definition" computer screen.

Compairing the experience is impossible. Computer screens will have to have much improved resolution and color depth to get close to equaling something that may have been seen by the human eye.

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 03:31 PM
Sometimes I'll get a luck shot at a distance, but normally I close to between .40 and .30 before I open fire. I can deflection shoot but not with any reasonable degree of accuracy so I mostly just try to boom and zoom or hang onto their tails for dear life!

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 04:09 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:

- Who said anything about Brewsters, we are talking
- about this:

http://sunnyokanagan.com/nabuffalo/images/spades2.jpg

Hmmm...that`s a screenshot from the upcoming free addon?

michapma
09-18-2003, 04:51 PM
For some reason I rarely hear people discussing gunnery, but it is the most fundamental and necessary skill involved in fighter combat. I always recommend to starters to work on their gunnery before starting with learning maneuvers. That doesn't mean that we all shouldn't continue to practice it after we have the basics down! Last month all members of my squadron were assigned four gunnery missions, and that was a fantastic idea. Some of our members have been flying for many years, and were commenting that they learned a lot doing these exercises. I think many people spend a very disproportionate amount of time on energy fighting, maneuvers, situational awareness, etc. and practically forget gunnery. That mentality is confirmed somewhat in this thread. It's fine if that's the way you like it, but it's a skill to be developed and can't be neglected if your goal is to be a dangerous combat pilot.

One very important factor in gunnery is knowing something about your gunsight and armament. Another factor is to learn a given weapons system by constant practice. By that I mean that if you're always changing plane types you're going to have more trouble adapting than if you always fly the same type. I couldn't hit someone at all with a 109F the other night and it's no wonder, I don't fly Messerschmitts all that often. The gunsight ring and the ticks and pipper are a system and more than just pretty decoration. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif They give you important information about range and how to "calculate" deflection shots, although the best way is just to develop a feel for the thing.

For anyone who is a decent pilot but either a poor shot or would like to improve, make a mission for yourself offline using the FMB and pracitce. Here are the ideas of the four gunnery missions we made for ourselves:

1. Create groups of friendly target drones, preferably fighters. We used 109s, just whatever you plan to be shooting at the most. Make sure they are on the same side so that they will fly fairly straight for you. See if you can down 8 or so with one ammo load using your plane. (More if the plane you're using has lots of ammo.)

2. Create the groups of drones and make sure you are the leader. Again make them friendly and of the type that you are likely to shoot at. Tell them to cover you with the radio commands so that they want to follow you, and then pratice deflection shots. If they level out and fly straight, command them to cover you again.

3. Similar to mission 1 so that they fly straight, but put your engine at 110%, open the radiator and leave your throttle there. You'll have to make passes with a closing speed to shoot, and shooting from 6 with a relatively high rate of closure is the point of the exercise. Your engine is likely to eventually conk out, so you are limited by both time and ammo. Again, see if you can get 8 or more planes.

4. Create a mission with 4 or so enemy drones at low AI. The point is not to outfly them, but gunnery. Make sure that your plane can easily outfly the enemy planes. They will be able to shoot back at you and will employ different techniques than friendly drones just trying to follow you. You will want to swoop down on them and make slashing attacks. This is a brilliant exercise and if you repeat it and focus on your gunnery you stand to learn a lot.


Absolutely use the zoom sight whenever you can. Toggle gunsight and the "zoom" views should be set as joystick buttons for effective fighting. As mentioned this is the proportions and sizes we would see in a real cockpit, meaning that the gunsight and enemy planes appear about the size they would in real life. The "normal" and wide views are meant to overcome the limitation of the lack of field of width due to monitor sizes. There are also the commands increase and decrease FOV (field of view) in the Controls section, experiment with them.

Of course the best solution is just to fly a FW-190. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif

Cheers,
Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

=69.GIAP=Chap

69.GIAP (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/giap/)</p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 05:38 PM
My hit percent is near 20% avg its been higher its been lower but the average is 20%

If I see your wing & your hangin id say its 89% to 99% /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1063229517.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:18 PM
Uh, ok Zen http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



TX-Zen wrote:


- I'm a terrible shot but a CEM edge riding mofo. I
- can outfly, out manuever and out dogfight any jock
- in FB which is awesome up til the point I call my
- wingman for him to make the kill.
-
- Ahh, the wonderful ironies of online dogfighting.
-
- TX-Zen
- Black 6
- TX Squadron CO
- http://www.txsquadron.com
-
- clyndes@hotmail.com (IM only)
-
-
- <img
- src="http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/tx-zen/Zen
- sig2.jpg">


Message Edited on 09/18/0312:19PM by Cragger

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:27 PM
After the patch I just can't hit anything........(and before the patch also )


but i still have lots of fun and thats fine to me .


( My kid is a lot better than me at IL-2 )


Salutt !

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:45 PM
This is great advice



michapma wrote:
- For some reason I rarely hear people discussing
- gunnery, but it is the most fundamental and
- necessary skill involved in fighter combat. I always
- recommend to starters to work on their gunnery
- before starting with learning maneuvers. That
- doesn't mean that we all shouldn't continue to
- practice it after we have the basics down! Last
- month all members of my squadron were assigned four
- gunnery missions, and that was a fantastic idea.
- Some of our members have been flying for many years,
- and were commenting that they learned a lot doing
- these exercises. I think many people spend a very
- disproportionate amount of time on energy fighting,
- maneuvers, situational awareness, etc. and
- practically forget gunnery. That mentality is
- confirmed somewhat in this thread. It's fine if
- that's the way you like it, but it's a skill to be
- developed and can't be neglected if your goal is to
- be a dangerous combat pilot.
-
- One very important factor in gunnery is knowing
- something about your gunsight and armament. Another
- factor is to learn a given weapons system by
- constant practice. By that I mean that if you're
- always changing plane types you're going to have
- more trouble adapting than if you always fly the
- same type. I couldn't hit someone at all with a 109F
- the other night and it's no wonder, I don't fly
- Messerschmitts all that often. The gunsight ring and
- the ticks and pipper are a system and more than just
- pretty decoration. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif They give you important
- information about range and how to "calculate"
- deflection shots, although the best way is just to
- develop a feel for the thing.
-
- For anyone who is a decent pilot but either a poor
- shot or would like to improve, make a mission for
- yourself offline using the FMB and pracitce. Here
- are the ideas of the four gunnery missions we made
- for ourselves:
-
- 1. Create groups of friendly target drones,
- preferably fighters. We used 109s, just whatever you
- plan to be shooting at the most. Make sure they are
- on the same side so that they will fly fairly
- straight for you. See if you can down 8 or so with
- one ammo load using your plane. (More if the plane
- you're using has lots of ammo.)
-
- 2. Create the groups of drones and make sure you are
- the leader. Again make them friendly and of the type
- that you are likely to shoot at. Tell them to cover
- you with the radio commands so that they want to
- follow you, and then pratice deflection shots. If
- they level out and fly straight, command them to
- cover you again.
-
- 3. Similar to mission 1 so that they fly straight,
- but put your engine at 110%, open the radiator and
- leave your throttle there. You'll have to make
- passes with a closing speed to shoot, and shooting
- from 6 with a relatively high rate of closure is the
- point of the exercise. Your engine is likely to
- eventually conk out, so you are limited by both time
- and ammo. Again, see if you can get 8 or more
- planes.
-
- 4. Create a mission with 4 or so enemy drones at low
- AI. The point is not to outfly them, but gunnery.
- Make sure that your plane can easily outfly the
- enemy planes. They will be able to shoot back at you
- and will employ different techniques than friendly
- drones just trying to follow you. You will want to
- swoop down on them and make slashing attacks. This
- is a brilliant exercise and if you repeat it and
- focus on your gunnery you stand to learn a lot.
-
-
- Absolutely use the zoom sight whenever you can.
- Toggle gunsight and the "zoom" views should be set
- as joystick buttons for effective fighting. As
- mentioned this is the proportions and sizes we would
- see in a real cockpit, meaning that the gunsight and
- enemy planes appear about the size they would in
- real life. The "normal" and wide views are meant to
- overcome the limitation of the lack of field of
- width due to monitor sizes. There are also the
- commands increase and decrease FOV (field of view)
- in the Controls section, experiment with them.
-
- Of course the best solution is just to fly a FW-190.
- /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif
-
- Cheers,
- Mike
-
- <table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0"
- cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle"
- bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3"
- align="center"><a
- href="http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/"
- target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none; color:
- #a2cd5a; font-size: small; font-family: Verdana,
- Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-weight:
- normal">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide
- project</a></a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td
- width="40%">FB engine management:
- <a style="color: #a2cd5a"
- href="http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.h
- tml" target="_blank">Manifold Pressure sucks</a>
- <a style="color: #a2cd5a"
- href="http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.h
- tml" target="_blank">Those Marvelous Props</a>
- <a style="color: #a2cd5a"
- href="http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.h
- tml" target="_blank">Mixture Magic</a>
- <a style="color: #a2cd5a"
- href="http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.h
- tml" target="_blank">Putting It All Together</a>
- <a style="color: #a2cd5a"
- href="http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.h
- tml" target="_blank">Those Fire-Breathing Turbos
- (Part 1 of 6)</a></td><td
- align="center">

=69.GIAP=Chap
-
- 69.GIAP (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/giap/)</p></td><td width="40%"
- align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
- <a href="http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html"
- target="_blank" style="color: #a2cd5a;">Flight
- Simulation Performance Analyzed</a>
- <a
- href="http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-
- topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv"
- target="_blank" style="color: #a2cd5a;">Building a
- home-made throttle quadrant step by step</a>
- <a
- href="http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/i
- ndex.html" target="_blank" style="color:
- #a2cd5a">Sound Can Be Hazardous for
- Games</a></td></tr></table>



<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1063229517.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:00 PM
the average skill is even worse than 7%.
these are the long-range "snipers".

i'm not shure, it depends from quite a lot of things, but my average is about 12% on normal days and bout 20% on the days where the forces are about equal.

just my 2cents



KIMURA wrote:
- 7% is not that high. Average skills in shooting of
- most pilots - online - is around 10-18%.
-
-
-
-
- "......und mein Herz steigt wie ein Falke in die
- Lüfte!"
-
- EJGr.Ost Kimura
-
- <img
- src="http://www.jagdgruppe-ost.de/image/ejgrost.gi
- f"> -
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
- Message Edited on 09/16/03 02:18PM by KIMURA



<div style="text-align: center;">
<hr style="width: 100%; height: 2px;">
<a href="http://ifh.firstones.com" target=_blank><img src=http://ifh.firstones.com/img/banners/banner01.jpg border=0<>

Mess with the best, die like the rest...

"Never argue with an idiot! They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." (S.U.X Infinity)

Message Edited on 09/18/0308:28PM by ToP_BlackSheep

michapma
09-18-2003, 07:14 PM
I figure the AI have a percentage between 1 and 2. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

=69.GIAP=Chap

69.GIAP (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/giap/)</p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:29 PM
Rocrawler wrote:
- I guess you guys arn't impressed by Buffalo Bill.

Err, who´s Buffalo Bill? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

GreyBeast_P39

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:48 PM
You guys wouldn't be so cocky if you were Buffalos. I'm deadly.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<center>
No Guts No Glory
<center>
http://www.jpmagazine.com/jpmag/eventcoverage/p95932_image_small.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:56 PM
edit

Message Edited on 09/18/0306:57PM by ToP_BlackSheep

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 09:00 PM
Lets just say I know the real reason as to why that German air traffic controller sounds so annoyed. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/180903-Ouch.jpg

<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/150903-Screensig.jpg

Whirlwind Whiner - First Of The Few

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:55 AM
my shooting is abysmal cannot hit a pe8 from 100 metres http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


I have found that offline practice helps though

If you are really having trouble even practice the deflection shots at half or quarter speed until you get your eye in.

Another useful trick is to record your practice sessions and play the track back from the TARGETS perspective.

Its a real eye-opener to do this and watch yourself shooting from the targets six and see all your shots skimming just above and below the wings without ever hitting .. brings home why deflection shooting is so important.

<center> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SQDLAtUWiWZ3BKw19!aryp7v3C1h1DuNwpHOOuqhlraGSyMAY KiPEOZAA1OBgsLu*Sa0UQ2my0PiFyvNkJ5K7Clsoy7yNtEvOXY nHDuPNiotpZACY2oJxw/aircraftround.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 04:42 AM
I suck , but especially in 190 and 109s and P_47s. For some reason I am much more proficient in Hurricane than any other plane. Such a clear view and a stable platform. Too bad it's not a faster plane.