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Istreliteli
02-25-2004, 11:12 PM
the I-185 is listed as a new plane. I cant find any screenshots of it or info on what it did/looked like/performed like in the war or during its tests
Any info?
And whats the new I-16 like?

UShtravnikov odin zakon odin konetz kalir rubi, fashistkaya brayagu,
viy luchikh lest, rupi tyen na grabiy, pro rif idut, shtrafnye batalione
http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=Yak-3/v=2/l=IVI/*-http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/downloads/yak3-3.jpg

Istreliteli
02-25-2004, 11:12 PM
the I-185 is listed as a new plane. I cant find any screenshots of it or info on what it did/looked like/performed like in the war or during its tests
Any info?
And whats the new I-16 like?

UShtravnikov odin zakon odin konetz kalir rubi, fashistkaya brayagu,
viy luchikh lest, rupi tyen na grabiy, pro rif idut, shtrafnye batalione
http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=Yak-3/v=2/l=IVI/*-http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/downloads/yak3-3.jpg

necrobaron
02-25-2004, 11:32 PM
The I-185 looks like a cross between an I-16 and a La-5. It was a Soviet prototype and was very impressive performance-wise,IIRC. I don't think it ever saw service,but it was an interesting plane. I didn't know we were getting a new I-16.

"Not all who wander are lost."

[This message was edited by necrobaron on Wed February 25 2004 at 11:09 PM.]

tenmmike
02-25-2004, 11:34 PM
http://www.aviapress.com/book/oth/oth188/oth188_5.jpg Polikarpov I-185
(Russia)
The I-185 was a wooden fighter monoplane, designed around the new M-90 engine. Later the M-81, M-71 and M-82 were tried; finally the M-71 was selected... and the I-185 was abandonded together with this engine. Performance was rated, to be excellent, and combat tests at the end of 1942 had good results.
Type: I-185-M-71
Function: fighter
Year: 1942 Crew: 1 Engines: 1 * 2000hp Shvetsov M-71
Wing Span: 9.80m Length: 8.05m Height: 2.50m Wing Area: 15.53m2
Empty Weight: 2709kg Max.Weight: 3629kg
Speed: 680km/h at 6170m Ceiling: 11000m Range: 1130km
Armament: 3*g20mm ShVAK, bombs 500kg


http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_50cal.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

TheGozr
02-25-2004, 11:55 PM
awesome..

-GOZR
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/images/pix/il2fbtmhlogosmall.jpg <--Uncensored version IL2fb here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/)

Stalker58
02-26-2004, 01:07 AM
It will be like La7 Late on steroids with roll rate like Fw190 and that all in '42 servers! And I bet the beast will NEVER overheat.Everyone will be flying it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Altitude, speed, manoeuvre and.... CRASH!

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
02-26-2004, 01:12 AM
Just remember to shout PULL!!! when you see one http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

jurinko
02-26-2004, 01:15 AM
correct is Istrebiteli, not Istreliteli.. (it means fighters in Russian)

----------------------
Letka.13/Liptow @ HL

M0NS
02-26-2004, 01:16 AM
680km/h? - wow! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

S!

M0NS

"So when Diogenes perceived that he was greatly excited and quite keyed up in mind with expectancy, he toyed with him and pulled him about in the hope that somehow he might be moved from his pride and thirst for glory and be able to sober up a little. For he noticed that at one time he was delighted, and at another grieved at the same thing, and that his soul was as unsettled as the weather at the solstices when both rain and sunshine come from the very same source."

(Dio Chrysostom "Discourse" 4.77-78)

BluesmanSF
02-26-2004, 01:19 AM
Why didn't the Russians use it? If it was so excellent why did they abandon it? I think I need a history lesson.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Cheers!

JR_Greenhorn
02-26-2004, 01:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BluesmanSF:
Why didn't the Russians use it? If it was so excellent why did they abandon it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Politics, if memory serves. I think the Polikarpov Design Bureau fell out of favour with Stalin, precluding use of any further designs from the firm.
My memory is failing me, so hopefully someone will come along to confirm/correct me.

tenmmike
02-26-2004, 01:58 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BluesmanSF:
Why didn't the Russians use it? If it was so excellent why did they abandon it? I think I need a history lesson.. ///read down abit and you will see the answer to your question http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/features/library/il-2/i-16/


http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_50cal.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

tttiger
02-26-2004, 02:30 AM
According to Soviet Combat Fighters of the Second World War Vol. 1, the I-185 could outperform every 1942 fighter. The 109F was 29mph (47kph) slower than the I-185 at sea level. At 6,000m, the 109F was 12.4 mph (20 kmh) slower than the I-185. The I-185 could reach 5,000m in 5.2 minutes compared to 6.3 minute for the 109F.

BUT the M-71 engine engine for the I-185 was extremely unreliable. The first prototype crashed due to an engine failure.

It ran almost as well on the M-82 engine, but those already were committed to the LA-5. There was not enough production capacity to produce the M-82 in sufficient numbers for both planes.

Soviet officials were extremely impressed with the I-185 and noted "it was simple and within the capabilities of pilots of low proficiency" but the engine around which it was designed apparently did it in. It was abandoned in February 1943 and never was used by line units. Polikarpov designed two improved versions, the I-187 and I-188, with new engines and they both outperformed the I-185. They were never built and he died in July 1944, according to the book.

This book is pretty candid about the politics of Russian aviation. It doesn't mention that Polikarpov personally fell out of favor, but I suppose that's open to question.

Personally, I don't like seeing any planes that didn't actually see combat service in the sim but fantasy seems to be St. Oleg's (and/or Ubi's) idea of good marketing these days. A pity, IMHO.

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

[This message was edited by tttiger on Thu February 26 2004 at 11:56 AM.]

LEXX_Luthor
02-26-2004, 02:35 AM
We will need I~185 so we can have a winning chance against Go~229 and P~80 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~WUAF_Badsight
I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait... ~Bearcat99
Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age ~ElAurens

JG77_Tintin
02-26-2004, 02:45 AM
Polikarpov didn't fall out of favour in Stalins eyes. He died in 1941 and Stalin had the U-2 series of biplanes reclassified as Po-2 in honour of his passing. It was just that as a designer, he was surpassed by his younger lietenants, who had worked with on Polikarpov projects. These men designed the Yak and MiG's.

JtD
02-26-2004, 03:15 AM
Well, looking at the data here it's obvious the design sufffered from a high wingloading. It is comparable to a FW 190. As we know, the Soviets needed planes that were easy to fly. They didn't have the time to produce highly qualified pilots. The 185 wouldn't match these requirements. Also, it was very important for them to produce large numbers and the introduction of another plane would certainly have reduced the total numbers produced.

These are two good reasons to abandon the design and it's still possible that there were dozens of others: technical, military, political.

tttiger
02-26-2004, 12:41 PM
Then why did the Soviets praise it for being an easy plane to fly for pilots with only minor skills?

"Well. looking at the data here, I'd say you're wrong." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The engine kept breaking. And the only engine that could replace it was not not avilable in sufficient quantities. They were all going to the LA-5s, which already were in production. Lack of production capacity (although Polikarpov apparently located a number of abandoned factories and proposed they by reopened to build his airplane, but there were no workers)

And if he died in 1941, how could he still be designing new planes in 1942 and 1943?

"Never let the facts get in the way of a good story." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

[This message was edited by tttiger on Thu February 26 2004 at 11:55 AM.]

[This message was edited by tttiger on Thu February 26 2004 at 11:59 AM.]

JR_Greenhorn
02-26-2004, 01:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG77_Tintin:
Polikarpov didn't fall out of favour in Stalins eyes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry to all for the misinformation I posted above. I posted what I had thought I remembered about the situation without verifying its accuracy. I shall try to aviod letting such a thing happen again.

il_gufo
02-26-2004, 02:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JR_Greenhorn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG77_Tintin:
Polikarpov didn't fall out of favour in Stalins eyes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry to all for the misinformation I posted above. I posted what I had thought I remembered about the situation without verifying its accuracy. I shall try to aviod letting such a thing happen again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't be so hard on yourself JR_Greenhorn, if you follow the link that tennmmike posted, it says that Polikarpov did lose favor with Stalin. Or at least it says he was "further removed from Stalin's patronage." Also, according to that book, he died in '44, not '41.

Chuck_Older
02-26-2004, 02:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:


And if he died in 1941, how could he still be designing new planes in 1942 and 1943?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just because the man was dead, it doesn't mean things he was working on prior to his death died at the same time. It also doesn't mean that his design bureau died. The post you are referring to indicates that Stalin posthumously named the planes in his honor.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

ZG77_Nagual
02-26-2004, 03:31 PM
Polikarpov was obviously brilliant - just look at the I-16 - probably the most advanced monoplane of it's day. Personally I like to see planes that didn't get alot of press but were combat ready. It's one of the great things about this simm.

Chuck_Older
02-26-2004, 03:57 PM
Not to take away from Polikarpov, but it has been argued that he borrowed from the GeeBee Racer's design.

*****************************
Did anyone prophesize these people? Only Travis. Come in Travis! ~ Clash

mortoma
02-26-2004, 06:21 PM
It will be assuredly banned from most servers on the basis of not having entered front line service in the war. Also to keep peace with the LW pilots.
And well it should be banned. There are lots of more appropriate planes that should be made flyable.

JR_Greenhorn
02-26-2004, 06:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
There are lots of more appropriate planes that should be made flyable.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Which of those are you modelling?

p1ngu666
02-26-2004, 06:58 PM
thought some flew in combat?

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

tttiger
02-26-2004, 10:20 PM
Chuck Older:

Do you have any idea what you are talking about when you write a post?

Polikarpov was born in 1892 and died in 1944. Every source I can find says so. NOT 1941. I already cited the book I found it in. Do a Google search and you'll see the same thing. Or, if you're too lazy, ask Tintin where he got 1941 from? Bet ya a beer he can't cite a credible source. Nope, he died in July 1944.

And where does this Gee Bee Racer stuff come from? Any sources you can cite? Yeah, the I-16 looks a tad like a Gee Bee, but that's about it.

Sri, Chuck, but I do not suffer fools gladly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And the real Chuck Older, who flew for the AVG and the 14th Air Force also was a lawyer and a judge (presided over the Charles Manson trial). How do I know? I look stuff up. You should try it some time. You sure ain't Chuck Older, LOL.

As Bugs Bunny would say: "What a maroon!"

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

[This message was edited by tttiger on Thu February 26 2004 at 09:28 PM.]

FltLt_HardBall
02-26-2004, 10:39 PM
They were "combat tested".

"Combat" is the key word here.

Cajun76
02-26-2004, 10:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
It will be assuredly banned from most servers on the basis of not having entered front line service in the war. Also to keep peace with the LW pilots.
And well it should be banned. There are lots of more appropriate planes that should be made flyable.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That takes care of the Do-335 too, dosen't it? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif And the Go-229. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif And the 109Z. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif To keep peace with the LW pilots.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I say bring them on. I'm not a great pilot, but a crappy pilot at the controls of a 109Z, Yak, I-185, or 190D is still a crappy pilot. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/Real_35a.gif
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

Mitlov47
02-27-2004, 12:15 AM
I want one of these...

---------------------------
I-16 and LA-5FN: real men fly radial.

drapis
02-27-2004, 01:26 AM
just several points:

- IIRC, Polikarpov died in 1944
- I-185 was originaly designed for new M-90 engine, then redesigned for usage of M-71 engine (unreliable) and finally M-82 (same as La-5) - that eliminates reliability issues
- too lazy to look right now, but it was combat tested (several machines with M-82 nad M-71 engines - IIRC) and even shot down several German planes and got VERY positive evaluation from combat pilots
- latest resources I've read about the crash of I-185 prototype crash and death of V. Ckalov state that Ckalov
himself broke his instruction to keep close to the test airfield and (even when he knew that the engine is
still unreliable) started to do "his own" testing of I-185, flew too far from the airfield and when the
prototype lost its engine, he was too far and too low to be able to glide back, and crashed during
and attempted crash landing. This story was later covered so as not to destroy the Chkalov legend of
a national hero (and Stalin's favourite pilot)

- the sad truth is that the most significant reason for not introducing this plane into VVS arsenal were
intrigues in USSR's usual struggle for power and Stalin's favor (Yakovlev is mentioned very often in this
context - and not only against Polikarpov)

S!

Killing for peace is like whoring for virginity.

LEXX_Luthor
02-27-2004, 01:31 AM
Chkalov died testing I~180 on December 1938. Polikarpov refused to approve the test flight, that may have helped save his butt. I heard the I~180 engine was left uncovered all night in -24C cold. It failed in flight.

__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~WUAF_Badsight
I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait... ~Bearcat99
Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age ~ElAurens

Stalker58
02-27-2004, 01:34 AM
If I185 will be modelled with its shortcoming (unreliable and easily overheating engine), then it's fine....

Altitude, speed, manoeuvre and.... CRASH!

JG77_Tintin
02-27-2004, 04:07 AM
Hi Greenhorn,

Didn't mean to be critical in any way. Was also quoting from memory and yes he did pass away on 30 July, 44, not 1941 as I said. So I guess I owe you and the other gentleman a beer. Look me up, if you are ever in Brisbane, Australia, there will be a XXXX waiting for you. We love our beer in this part of the world.

Thanks, Tintin.

Curly_109
02-27-2004, 05:30 AM
I-185 is good plane... too bad we won't get it... why everyone vote for P-51 and Hawk? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

tttiger
02-27-2004, 05:42 PM
LOL, tintin

Since I live in Hawaii, don't be too surprised if I show up looking for that beer. Been there many times. If I couldn't be a Yank, I'd want to be an Aussie http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

Mitlov47
02-27-2004, 06:54 PM
Wait, I'm confused. Will this aircraft be in Aces or won't it? If it won't I'm going to be HEARTBROKEN.

---------------------------
I-16: the killer corgi.

tttiger
02-27-2004, 07:02 PM
It's supposed to be there, so it probably will be.

But unless it's overmodeled, the engine will freeze up regularly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Another "Plane That Never Was."

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

JG77_Tintin
03-01-2004, 03:10 AM
G'day tttiger,

Guess I'll see you around sometime then. Just drop me an email on noseyparker@optusnet.com when you are next in Brisbane. Have twice visited USA, Hawaii and always enjoyed the experience. Good country, great people. Always have time to have a beer with our Yank cousins. Will catch up with you latter.

Bye, Tintin.

robban75
03-01-2004, 03:20 AM
Don't forget it was a prototype, which for Russian planes mostly means that for production machines retracting at least 20-30km/h off the topspeed isn't all that unrealistic. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!