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View Full Version : I've just learned two more things about FB



Timex62
04-23-2004, 05:29 AM
I wonder if any of you have noticed this too:
1) It seems that tracer rounds are the only rounds that count. I was flying a P-40M against an Fw-190, approached from about 30 degrees left of head on, led my target and should have sprayed him. I was only 0.1 Km from him.
2) Less of a problem unless you get overly aggressive with ground targets like me; If you fly through the fire of an explosion your toast too!
I saved the track for a little post-game review and sure enough my tracers passed just in front of the Wulf and just past his tail by only a couple of feet. No damage at all to the 190. As for the explosion, I had just ripped apart a train and was passing over it by what should have been 25 feet but still trough the fire and the rear half of the fuselage disitegrated. Live and learn I guess (but not this time!).

Close to the Edge

Timex62
04-23-2004, 05:29 AM
I wonder if any of you have noticed this too:
1) It seems that tracer rounds are the only rounds that count. I was flying a P-40M against an Fw-190, approached from about 30 degrees left of head on, led my target and should have sprayed him. I was only 0.1 Km from him.
2) Less of a problem unless you get overly aggressive with ground targets like me; If you fly through the fire of an explosion your toast too!
I saved the track for a little post-game review and sure enough my tracers passed just in front of the Wulf and just past his tail by only a couple of feet. No damage at all to the 190. As for the explosion, I had just ripped apart a train and was passing over it by what should have been 25 feet but still trough the fire and the rear half of the fuselage disitegrated. Live and learn I guess (but not this time!).

Close to the Edge

SeaFireLIV
04-23-2004, 05:37 AM
Wrong!

I`ve fired shots with my Spitfire at a 110, and because I had very few cannon rounds I fired in VERY small bursts- just a touch on the trigger. I noticed at first a tracer round go for the enemy plane, but when I fired a very quick burst again I saw nothing, but the 110 reflected hits on it! You could hear the shot, see the impact hits, then bits flew away, even though it looked like nothing went there.

No, the bullets are definitely inbetween those tracers!

no. 2 Yes you`re right. Too close to an explosion is not good. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SeaFireLIV...



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tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-23-2004, 05:38 AM
Head on (even with 30 degrees offset) with a FW190 in a p-40 is prolly not the best idea http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif in the world but it sounds like he may have been inside your gun convergance maybe you should have fired earlier ?

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-23-2004, 05:41 AM
With regard to point 2

Skip bomb a few ships and you will also run into that little nugget heheh I found skip bombing with a p-51 and a 1000lb (or whatever the big one is) can be a little painfull to http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Timex62
04-25-2004, 10:07 AM
Hello to SeaFire and Balrog. All I can say is I watched the track at 1/4 speed and my tracers went just in front of th right wing and the second round of tracers went fust behind the tail. If the tracer rounds were loaded every fourth or fifth round I should have raked him. No strikes were evident, nothing came off, and it seemed to fly without any problems. I think I can figure out how to zip the track if you'd like to see it. I'm not trying to troll here, I was just curious.

Close to the Edge

VW-IceFire
04-25-2004, 10:19 AM
That is interesting...I'll double check that but all the other guns will show explosions, or impacts, or something even when the tracer is not present...

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Capt.LoneRanger
04-25-2004, 10:35 AM
Agreed Seafire.

The tracers are definately NOT the only projectiles calculated. Want an easy test: Shoot at the ground. You'll se a LOT more impacts than just tracers.

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

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Chuck_Older
04-25-2004, 11:16 AM
True, cap'n


We shouldn't assume that what we see visually represented in FB is what the sim actually calculates

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_VR_ScorpionWorm
04-25-2004, 11:21 AM
I wondered that myself....then I recorded a track....shot the ground and all was OK. The bullets probly just missed or you couldnt see the impact.....record and jump in the cockpit of the other plane and its there. BAM, BAM, BAM.....very loud and scary when you have earphones on and turned up pretty loud. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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CzechTexan
04-25-2004, 12:08 PM
sounds like a gun convergence issue to me. One set of wing guns firing at one side of the target and the other set of wing guns firing at the other side of the target; With the target in the middle and surrounded by bullets but none hitting.
Try setting gun convergence to 0.01 km http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Your guns may be sharply angled inward but you might hit the target with 'em.
I prefer nose guns instead of wing guns myself and that way I don't have to worry about the angle of my machine gun convergence.



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Clanktank
04-25-2004, 03:13 PM
Try it again in arcade mode, that'll leave tell-tale markers so you can see the hits and misses, even if no damage is shown.

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Timex62
04-25-2004, 05:29 PM
Folks take my word for this, it wasn't convergance that was the problem. I was more or less parallel to my target and he flew directly through my bullet stream. At that distance, with 6 .50's ripping into him, he should have been hurt.

Close to the Edge

clint-ruin
04-25-2004, 05:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Timex62:
Folks take my word for this, it wasn't convergance that was the problem. I was more or less parallel to my target and he flew directly through my bullet stream. At that distance, with 6 .50's ripping into him, he should have been hurt.

Close to the Edge<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

P51D static test dispersion, w/o recoil effects, at perfect convergence:

http://mitglied.lycos.de/jaytdee/fbg/P51.jpg

FB ROF tests summary .50 cal:
http://mitglied.lycos.de/jaytdee/fbg/rof.html

The average 0.50 Browning spits out 750rpm, but the true range is from 733 to 800 at least.

Browning .50 "gun by gun" comment:
http://mitglied.lycos.de/jaytdee/fbg/gunbygun.html


Browning 0.50: Again, the Browning is the standard for me. The apparent lack of hitting power mainly comes from it's huge dispersion, which makes it very hard to hit anything. So there are two things to mention:
1st: RoF is very strange. It differs from gun to gun, averaging around 750. Total number is about correct.
2nd: Dispersion is just to much. It might be correct if the barrels used were 0.52 or something...

Tracers are absolutely not the only rounds fired by the .50 cal.

Il-2 weapon data table:

Browning .50
// APIT - AP - HE - AP

APIT
mass = 0.0485
speed = 870.0
power = 0.002

AP
mass = 0.0485
speed = 870.0
power = 0

HE
mass = 0.0485
speed = 870.0
power = 0.00148


When firing the guns at any airbourne target you will see APIT tracer rounds [red tracer, solid arrow on impact], AP rounds [no tracer, solid arrow on impact], and HE rounds [no tracer, solid arrow + ~4 HE fragment arrows] in arcade mode. It is absolutely incorrect to say that tracers are the only rounds doing damage.

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Timex62
04-25-2004, 06:39 PM
OK, the more I look at the track, the more I believe I must have under shot my target though the tracer's angle made it look as if it should have hit. Lets hear it for instant replay! Arrrgh! Thanx all for taking the time to post.

Close to the Edge