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View Full Version : Roll-rate of P47 at higher-speeds fixed yet?



FG56th-S.G.
01-21-2004, 11:50 AM
Why is it so difficult to get the P47 to roll better at higher-speeds?

FG56th-S.G.
01-21-2004, 11:50 AM
Why is it so difficult to get the P47 to roll better at higher-speeds?

Maple_Tiger
01-21-2004, 12:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FG56th-S.G.:
Why is it so difficult to get the P47 to roll better at higher-speeds?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldn't get your hopes up. The P-51 still over heats at 670kmh to 680kmh TAS at 7624m.

Mayby Oleg should change the data in the Ojects vewer saying,


P-51D's top speed of 703kmh TAS at 7624m can only be reached if you turn off the Over Heat setting. lol

SkyChimp
01-21-2004, 06:48 PM
That, my friend, will never be fixed. By now, there is no doubt that the poor and completely ahistorical roll-rate is intentionally botched.

Regards,
SkyChimp
http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/skychimp.jpg

Dnmy
01-21-2004, 07:22 PM
Try using aileron trim at high speeds.

But since trim is so slow it'll take a while to get the thing rolling but once it does it's fast.

LuftKuhMist
01-21-2004, 10:09 PM
Well boohoo... Communist conspiration.

http://www.ckoi.com/ckoi2/images/comiques/normales/0000022.JPG

Diablo_777_AVG
01-22-2004, 06:56 AM
As Skychimp said.....P-47 rollrate will never get fixed. I have jsut learned to live with it and go on. Just learn where the refly button is and use it often.....well in my case anyway.

http://777AVG.com/sigs/sig09.gif

BM357_ZoD
01-22-2004, 11:08 AM
use the rudder with the aliron then i think it rolls just fine but thats just my opinion

LuftKuhMist
01-22-2004, 11:44 AM
No it ain't right because american rollrate is the best.

http://www.ckoi.com/ckoi2/images/comiques/normales/0000022.JPG

Maple_Tiger
01-22-2004, 01:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftKuhMist:
No it ain't right because american rollrate is the best.

http://www.ckoi.com/ckoi2/images/comiques/normales/0000022.JPG <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


LuftKuhMist, to be honest i would trust american data over russion data.

Besides, SkyChip and others have shown charts and data to us and have sent them to Oleg.

Oleg and team have slightly improved the roll rate with each patch for the D27. But from looking at the charts and data i beleave the roll rate is still too slow.

If you take the P-47D10 out for a spin and test it's roll rate at 400kmh TAS youl notice it's about right.

But the issue is with the D27. Now take this D27 out for a spin and test the roll rate at 400kmh TAS wich i think is its max roll rate and then try it at 500kmh TAS. Any way, my point is that some of us dont think the D27 should roll about 40 to 50% less then the D10. Thats crazy and i dont know what Oleg and Team where thinking.


Also, some of us may or may not know but from looking at a roll rate chart it looks as if the P-51's roll rate is also incorrect. The P-39's roll rate looks to be too fast. I might be wrong but i beleave the P-40's roll rate should be faster then the P-39.

Notice how the P-39 has always had a good FM compared to the P-40's and P47's? Thats because the Russions loved the P-39.

Ask your self this, why did it take until 1.21 to improve the roll rate for the P-40? Why was it wrong in the first place? Why was it not corrected in 1.11?

Why does SkyChimp and a few others have to show and send charts to Oleg and team to get some improvement on FM's of some planes?

Do you hear people complaning about under modeled russion planes? Why is that i wonder?



So LuftkuhMist, take the D27 out fly around in it then come back here tell us that it's roll rate is just fine. Then record your results and show US a chart that proves that the Roll rate is correct. Otherwise go troll some where els.

LuftKuhMist
01-22-2004, 01:23 PM
Ok, first I often fly the P47. I score kills with it, I love that plane, it's a great fighter.

Second, if american data is as authentic as american kill counting, I'd even prefer African data over american data.

Third, I won't do a stupid graph just to prove that my favorite plane is undermodelled and that the eeevil german and commi planes are overmodelled. You want me to roll a P47 in a game with a chronometer in my hand all day just to prove I'm right and then open photoshop to do a graph to stuff in the game developer's face? That's just geek.

By the way, I did that graph for a friend and that's the only graph I'll ever do.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Maybe the P47 roll is off, I never flew one, I don't think anyone here has I can't say. All the stuff I read says the P47 is not the greatest dogfighter but a VERY good high altitude escort plane, which seems right in IL2.

I will never run in circles my hands in the air crying NATIONAL CONSPIRACY! MY GAME IS NOT RIGHT!!!

If you do not agree, I am sad for you.

http://www.ckoi.com/ckoi2/images/comiques/normales/0000022.JPG

ShVAK
01-22-2004, 01:44 PM
Hehe - as another P-47 lover I tend to support this thread. I'll stick with D10 until a fix arrives.

Secondly, what about the historical D22, D27 prop improvement? This also seems to be lacking.

Finally, the add-on sees another jet which barely saw combat and also introduces the king of all Focke-Wulfs.

So where is the P-47M?

VW-IceFire
01-22-2004, 02:12 PM
Nobody modeled it. But it would be nice to have the P-47M...and if indications are correct any problems associated with roll stability on the bubble canopy was solved with this version and the redesigned tail. Not to mention more range, HVARS, and cool new wings.

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/spit-sig.jpg

JG26Red
01-22-2004, 02:43 PM
I dont see the fasination with the P47, i fly it once and awhile and find it to be a POS imo... if it has something to do with not being modelled correctly thats unfourtunate... at least its durable and takes alot of punishment for you diehard jug fans.. and kudos to anyone who makes it work...

FG56th-S.G.
01-22-2004, 04:01 PM
No one is stating that the P47 was a GREAT turn-fighter -- it wasn't.

The only advantages the P47 had were speed, zoom-climb, dive, and ROLL-RATE.

The P47 had good roll-rate at high-speeds. The D27 in IL2 does not. It's not exactly rocket-science, LuftKueMist.

SkyChimp
01-22-2004, 08:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftKuhMist:
Ok, first I often fly the P47. I score kills ...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In other words, you don't have anything useful to add.

Regards,
SkyChimp
http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/skychimp.jpg

Stalker58
01-23-2004, 04:54 AM
LuftKuhanything, please can you hint me to some VVS guncam footage from WWII? I would like see some kill of those VVS aces..
Oh, there are not any available? I wonder why...

Altitude, speed, manoeuvre and.... CRASH!

LuftKuhMist
01-23-2004, 02:37 PM
These are very intelligent posts... clap clap clap... bravo bravo...

VVS aces have something to do with P47 rollrate... Yeah yeah... The top ace of the VVS has more kills than Bong... so much for your "crappy VVS aces".

Give me your postal address, I'll send you a trophee, you're my hero!

Oh, Chimp, I don't have anything useful to add, but at least I don't PRETEND I have with graphs.

Anyway go ahead with your crusade, I don't care much. I wish you a good rolling thunderbolt!

http://www.ckoi.com/ckoi2/images/comiques/normales/0000022.JPG

ElAurens
01-23-2004, 03:42 PM
LuftKuhMist...

The P47 roll rate charts that SkyChimp posted are the oficial US test charts for that aircraft. They are NOT made up.

Why are you so seemingly afraid of a properly modelled P47 D27? That is what I am seeing in your juvenile replys in this thread...fear.

Just another Luftwhiner afraid of the truth.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

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Korolov
01-23-2004, 03:46 PM
Well I think we ought to make it so all LW planes roll at 1 degree a second, take 5 minutes to climb to 500 meters, and give them a max speed of 300kmh.

Then you'll all be on the same boat! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Maple_Tiger
01-23-2004, 05:16 PM
lol Korolov, that was good.

Ok check this out.

Change it so that all the russion planes overheat 15kmh TAS before they reach there top speeds. Then reduce there roll rate by 15%, reduce there climb by 15% and reduce there Zoom climb by 15%.

This way they have to rely on pilot skill.

Man oh man am i going to get flamed big time. Oh well, it was just a thought.

p1ngu666
01-23-2004, 06:56 PM
how was the roll on the real p47 d27 ?
i think it might have been better cos of less side area. (compaired to the earlier ones) well perhaps.

Maple_Tiger
01-23-2004, 08:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
how was the roll on the real p47 d27 ?
i think it might have been better cos of less side area. (compaired to the earlier ones) well perhaps.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Your not going to beleave this, but i just spent over an hour in the QMB flying around in the D10, D22, D27 and P-51.

Well it apears that the D10, D22 and D27's roll rates have been redused. In 1.21 i noticed that the D10 had a good roll rate. I swear, it does not have a good roll rate now.

I do beleave that the P-47's manuver and hold there E a little better, but i could very well be wronge. I do fly these planes quit abit.

ElAurens
01-24-2004, 12:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maple_Tiger:
Oh well, it was just a thought.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But a good one......

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HellToupee
01-24-2004, 12:56 AM
just what difference will a sligh improvement in roll rate make, it will still be out rolled climbed turned and gunned by a 190, 109 will still fly rings around it online.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

SkyChimp
01-24-2004, 06:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HellToupee:
just what difference will a sligh improvement in roll rate make, it will still be out rolled climbed turned and gunned by a 190, 109 will still fly rings around it online.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A "slight improvement?" The roll rate is off by 100% at some speeds.

Regards,
SkyChimp
http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/skychimp.jpg

p1ngu666
01-24-2004, 07:47 AM
i remmber reading a pilots comments that it could roll with a 190 easily.
the roll rate would be handy cos it cant climb or turn