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View Full Version : ACCURATE LOOKING TRACER AND GUNFIRE PLEASE



RAAFVirtSqn
05-05-2004, 11:26 PM
What would be really excellent in terms of immersion is to have accurate looking tracer and gunfire from aircraft.

You all know what I mean. Reflect back on the many WW2 aircraft documentary and reels of aircraft attacking other aircraft or ground targets. The streak of tracer and gunfire does not go in a straight line (like in IL2/FB/AEP), it sort of wobbles all around the place.

For example, for those who have the Microprose sim B17 Flying Fortress sim can attest this correct gunfire effect can be acheived - especially when you hop into a fighter and spray a few rounds around.

Since this is technically possible can this same effect be created in FB as in Microprose B17?.

Accurate looking gunfire should be one of the key components of any aircraft battle sim that is trying to increase immersion and add a touch of realistic gameplay.

So the question is can and will this be looked at and acheived in PF?

_RAAF_Schuftie

RAAFVirtSqn
05-05-2004, 11:26 PM
What would be really excellent in terms of immersion is to have accurate looking tracer and gunfire from aircraft.

You all know what I mean. Reflect back on the many WW2 aircraft documentary and reels of aircraft attacking other aircraft or ground targets. The streak of tracer and gunfire does not go in a straight line (like in IL2/FB/AEP), it sort of wobbles all around the place.

For example, for those who have the Microprose sim B17 Flying Fortress sim can attest this correct gunfire effect can be acheived - especially when you hop into a fighter and spray a few rounds around.

Since this is technically possible can this same effect be created in FB as in Microprose B17?.

Accurate looking gunfire should be one of the key components of any aircraft battle sim that is trying to increase immersion and add a touch of realistic gameplay.

So the question is can and will this be looked at and acheived in PF?

_RAAF_Schuftie

tenmmike
05-06-2004, 12:14 AM
in il-2 fb/aep we dont have straight fire ,there is a ballistic arc and convergence ,so i dont know what your talking about, its very easy to test .....the only time the event that you are describing happens is when you dont have realistic gunnery turned on.

http://www.2-60inf.com/2-60_crest.gif 84-91

lbhskier37
05-06-2004, 12:15 AM
Guns only look squiggly in old films because the camera was shaking. Tracers fire straight, kinda like bullets http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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RAAFVirtSqn
05-06-2004, 12:25 AM
Mike thanks, I will try realistic gunnery selection if not turned on and test it out.

Do you have Mircoprose B17? If so do you see what I am talking about.

Also thanks lbhskier37, I appreciate what you mean about shaking gum camera's. I will try to get a screen shot from B17 to show you what I mean - e.g. tracers look like a squiglly line when fired.

Thanks for your clarifications.

RAAF Schuftie

tenmmike
05-06-2004, 12:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RAAFVirtSqn:
Mike thanks, I will try realistic gunnery selection if not turned on and test it out.

Do you have Mircoprose B17? If so do you see what I am talking about.

Also thanks lbhskier37, I appreciate what you mean about shaking gum camera's. I will try to get a screen shot from B17 to show you what I mean - e.g. tracers look like a squiglly line when fired.

Thanks for your clarifications.

RAAF Schuftie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>hello i did have that i gave to a forum member from here named yay1 as he said he wanted it ..i must tell you i didnt like it though to be honest i may not have given it a fair shake as i got it the same time as cfs 2 and 3 ( i then uninstalled them but still have them)personaly i thought the tracers were to bright in that game (judging from my own military expierience) btw you are talking b-17 the mighty eigth ....right?

http://www.2-60inf.com/2-60_crest.gif 84-91

RAAFVirtSqn
05-06-2004, 01:14 AM
Hi Mike

Correct, B17 the Might Eigth. Thanks for your posts. Yeah true it is the colour of the tracers looks a bit funny bright yellow, but more the effect I make reference to e.g. the squiggly pattern tracers form.

I will try to do a screen shot and post it up -to show you what I mean.

Thanks for your responses, tips and clarifications.

Cheers
_RAAF_Schuftie

[This message was edited by RAAFVirtSqn on Thu May 06 2004 at 12:33 AM.]

tenmmike
05-06-2004, 01:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RAAFVirtSqn:
deleted as duplicate

[This message was edited by RAAFVirtSqn on Thu May 06 2004 at 12:30 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> i guess then your talking about the twist of tracer smoke its very aperaint in many aircraft especaly the nose mounted cannon planes ,maybe your vid card does not(along with your other setteings) does not show that ..(i dont know ) any way good luck and good night

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tenmmike
05-06-2004, 01:42 AM
keep looking here sombody will answere you this is a great flight sim and there are some very good ppl here ......good night

http://www.2-60inf.com/2-60_crest.gif 84-91

FltLt_HardBall
05-06-2004, 02:18 AM
B-17 modelled the tracer effect innacurately. They modelled it to look like gun camera footage, but IRL tracers do not look squiggly to the human eye. We've just been conditioned to expect squiggly tracers because the only experience we've had is looking at gun camera footage.

Oleg got it right. Be sure.

[This message was edited by FltLt_HardBall on Thu May 06 2004 at 12:35 PM.]

hobnail
05-06-2004, 03:34 AM
As noted above, tracers in real life look more Starwars than intuition would suggest.

B17 developers admitted that they'd been trying to capture the look of guncam footage even though their WWII veteran consultants told em it wasn's so.

stansdds
05-06-2004, 04:20 AM
Tracers arc, just like any other other bullet. There is a differences in trajectory since the tracer bullet loses weight as the incindiary compound burns, so tracer fire is not perfectly accurate when compared to solid bullets, but it is close enough for most purposes. If you ever see tracers fired from a ground mounted machine gun, you will see that they do not squiggle, but have a gently arc. The squiggling in gun camera footage does come from the camera being vibrated, but this effect has been put into some sims, probably due to pressure from sim pilots.

JG7_Rall
05-06-2004, 04:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FltLt_HardBall:
B-17 modelled the tracer effect innacurately. They modelled it to look like gun camera footage, but IRL tracers do not look squiggly to the human eye. We've just been conditioned to expect squiggly tracers because the only experience we've had is looking at gun camera footage.

Oleg got it right. Be sure.

[This message was edited by FltLt_HardBall on Thu May 06 2004 at 12:35 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep. As stated, they only "squiggle" because the cameras are getting shaken all about. They do fire strait http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Latico
05-06-2004, 05:09 PM
One thing about tracer rounds that I haven't seen in any sim is the ricochue/deflection effect that you see as rounds hit an object.

I've seen this in WWII footage of air combat and straffing. I don't mean every tracy round bounced off in another dirction, but there were a few that would.

sugaki
05-06-2004, 06:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Latico:
One thing about tracer rounds that I haven't seen in any sim is the ricochue/deflection effect that you see as rounds hit an object.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I coulda swore CFS2 did this when strafing. If I'm wrong some other game did, I remember seeing it cus' I was so surprised.

-Aki

tenmmike
05-06-2004, 06:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Latico:
One thing about tracer rounds that I haven't seen in any sim is the ricochue/deflection effect that you see as rounds hit an object.

I've seen this in WWII footage of air combat and straffing. I don't mean every tracy round bounced off in another dirction, but there were a few that would.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> go shoot at a il-2 with mg fire you will see all kinds of ricoche bulets...i see it every time i shoot at one in fact the 20mm ap will bounce off as well,i just tested it

http://www.2-60inf.com/2-60_crest.gif

[This message was edited by tenmmike on Thu May 06 2004 at 05:45 PM.]

Art-J
05-07-2004, 07:33 AM
Months ago, somewhere on FB forum (maybe?) someone posted link to a site with many guncam color movies (but it was not well known Wiley's page). Between many "theme-mixes" available for download there was one titled "bounceoff". 36 secs of various, authentic, bouncing-only action. That looked cool! It would be fun to have similar effect in PF, but I doubt we'll get it. The only sim which has it is beta ver. of "Target Rabaul", but it seems to be little "overmodelled" since ALL tracers bounce there. Nevertheless, looking at it is fun. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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stansdds
05-07-2004, 12:04 PM
I would expect ricochets would be difficult to model with accuracy. The ricochet would be affected by impact velocity, impact angle, bullet construction, and the type of surface the bullet impacts.

VF-2_John_Banks
05-08-2004, 03:37 PM
PAW did that riquoche stuff, when hitting the water.

Sharpe26
05-09-2004, 03:13 AM
I would like to know what that other site is. and btw John you're right, I was reading through this and immediatly thought of PAW.

and as an afterthought, you CAN see some of that bouncing tracerfire on Willeys site as well, just look at the train and ship strafing amongst others.

VF-2_John_Banks
05-09-2004, 03:40 AM
Yeah, PAW was a great game and when it comes to carrier ops and the campaigns, it still beats the **** outta CFS2. Beside that, PAW would be compatible with TrackIR as well, IIRC. It featured a mouse panning view, whereas CFS2 does only support the POV Hat.
PAW was the reason why i started to collect all my WW2 aviation videos and books.

GT182
05-09-2004, 07:39 AM
If you'd have stayed with B17 tenmmike you would have seen the changes made to B17. The tracer's colors can and have been changed to look more realistic along with many other things in the game. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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