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View Full Version : Its a shame to lose all the FB A/C when BOB comes out



Tempestate
01-25-2004, 04:22 PM
Is anyone aware of whether or not OLEg intends to include all that has been achieved so far in the new BOB game.

I mean I thought the best thing about Forgotten Battles when it came out was that it included all the A/C from the original IL2 Sturmovik.

A lot of hard work modelling A/C and camapigns etc has gone into this game. It would be a shame to lose it all and go back to having a tiny choice of A/C again.

My vision for Olegs sims would be to keep building on the product even if you have a new engine import all the A/C as you have already modelled the flight charactaristics and cockpits etc. This way eventually we have a product where we can fly on any front we want and have a huge ww2 campaign instead of having to switch games all the time.

Keeping what we have now in any future titles is I think half the point to still playing Olegs games. I mean the whole community moved over to FB when it came out it would be nice to keep that community strong and have everybody move over to BOB because it incorporated all Olegs ww2 flight sims to date. YOU WILLL GET MORE SALES THIS WAY

Tempestate
01-25-2004, 04:22 PM
Is anyone aware of whether or not OLEg intends to include all that has been achieved so far in the new BOB game.

I mean I thought the best thing about Forgotten Battles when it came out was that it included all the A/C from the original IL2 Sturmovik.

A lot of hard work modelling A/C and camapigns etc has gone into this game. It would be a shame to lose it all and go back to having a tiny choice of A/C again.

My vision for Olegs sims would be to keep building on the product even if you have a new engine import all the A/C as you have already modelled the flight charactaristics and cockpits etc. This way eventually we have a product where we can fly on any front we want and have a huge ww2 campaign instead of having to switch games all the time.

Keeping what we have now in any future titles is I think half the point to still playing Olegs games. I mean the whole community moved over to FB when it came out it would be nice to keep that community strong and have everybody move over to BOB because it incorporated all Olegs ww2 flight sims to date. YOU WILLL GET MORE SALES THIS WAY

WUAF_Badsight
01-25-2004, 04:26 PM
FB was based on IL2 Sturmovik

BoB is based on nothing , its entirely new

FB is great , BoB will be better

the 3D models are over twice as complex

BoB will not remain simply BoB , stuff has been mentioned that its going to expand thru to the rest of the war

& yes BoB will have a small amount of flyables
highly detailed flyables

you will still have FB , you will lose nothing

Tempestate
01-25-2004, 04:33 PM
I realise its a new and complex game engine but I just do not want to wait another lifetime to get to the same level of variety we have now.

Who wants to go backwards to FB after they have BOB, nobody in their right mind I think. This means in turn that you lose the hard fought A/C the community have strived for, especially the modellers like Gibbage.

I was dreaming thats all, dreaming of the ultimate ww2 flight sim.

BOB will only expand so far before another new engine will be needed!! We will not get to the ultimate flight sim in my lifetime I think.

U know the one that lets you refuel and fly the globe of ww2 if you want. Hell you should be able to ferry A/C over the atlantic http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif LOL

Its a shame to see the list shrink after all the hard work by Oleg and the community

Tempestate
01-25-2004, 04:36 PM
THey have to at least import all the FB A/C and maps in an expansion of BOB.

Should be a POLL on it

x__CRASH__x
01-25-2004, 04:38 PM
3D models are 3d models, right? So it probably won't be too hard to apply the new engine to the exsisting FM data. I would guess we will have an expansion early on that will include a lot of your FB favorites.

I would guess that the popularity of BoB will be limited until they expand to include years beyond '41.

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LEXX_Luthor
01-25-2004, 04:59 PM
Tempestate:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
BOB will only expand so far before another new engine will be needed!! We will not get to the ultimate flight sim in my lifetime I think.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The history of software will prove Tempstate's prediction correct. Oleg will be forced to abandon BoB and "start over" if the modders take twice as long to make planes with twice the complexity.

WUAF_Badsight:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>& yes BoB will have a small amount of flyables
highly detailed flyables<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No more apparent detail then we already have. How much "detail" do we notice in a dogfight? Still, when flying a mission, it will be comforting to know, on a purely intellectual academic level, that our planes have double the number of polygons. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The next move in flight sims should be all aircraft flyable. This will never happen if they keep loading down modders with invisible "detail."

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WUAF_Badsight
01-25-2004, 05:05 PM
ok well Gran Turismo 3 has more cars in it than TOCA

you export all the cars in the game GT3 to TOCA RD for me & ill export all of FBs planes to BoB

game codes are not simple beasts

saying the word "transfer" is easy

coding & programming is not

you still will have FB

LeadSpitter_
01-25-2004, 05:19 PM
Hopefully all models will be updated adding more polys giving the models better detail, the iar is hopefully many others will as well.

I think fb will do well for at least another year or two with the addons coming out

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Recon_609IAP
01-25-2004, 05:22 PM
Does this mean I should start my typical whining for flyable bombers now then?

I want to have flyable bombers in BoB - just like He111 and hopefully the B25 and Ju88.

Please!

S!
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Platypus_1.JaVA
01-25-2004, 05:24 PM
Knowing Oleg's high quality standards, he will probably never let a FB aircraft slip into BoB. (Thankfully) pls don't make this sim like CFS with all the half-finished and poorly looking add-on planes.

It is not that FB looks bad but, BoB aircraft is said to have twice as much poly's as FB aircraft.

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2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

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willyvic
01-25-2004, 05:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
Knowing Oleg's high quality standards, he will probably never let a FB aircraft slip into BoB. (Thankfully) pls don't make this sim like CFS with all the half-finished and poorly looking add-on planes.

It is not that FB looks bad but, BoB aircraft is said to have twice as much poly's as FB aircraft.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand your point and opinion. My concerns are with the negligable amount of aircraft we will see in BOB if in fact they do not harvest what is already available in FB. I am not naive enough to believe they would stop with the initial outlay of birds. But I am also not naive enough to believe that it won't turn into a profit gaining venture. IE: ya want more birds, pay for em.

I think our free ride is over in regards to addon aircraft and the lot. We are hooked and I believe will be presented with payware expansions and such. Whether we buy or not will depend on individual preference and probably be driven by compatbility issues between the addons and expansions. (EXAMPLE, if it comes to pass, BOB 1.0 being compatible with BOB 1.1).

When and if that time comes, the continued presentation of a closed architecture program may lead to the platforms downfall.

Mostly conjecture at this point. However, we shall see what we shall see.

As a flight sim enthusiast I unashamedly admit that I will be in line with others to add to my collection regardless of the outcome.

Cya round the lobby sometime.

http://www.rcaf-squadron.org/willyvic/images/mig3u.jpg

Tempestate
01-25-2004, 06:07 PM
I am hoping it will at least go like this

IL2 Original
IL2 FB - includes original planes and maps
IL@ ACES FB expansion - includes il2 and FB A/C

NEW COMPUTER needed at this point http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BOB - does not include any il2 A/C
BOB free patch - includes all il2 A/C and maps that olegs team have converted for BOB engine

BOB expansion1 - Late war Europe
BOB expansion2 - new A/C and the Med front and Afrika
BOB expansion3 - Pacific WArs

LEXX_Luthor
01-25-2004, 06:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is not that FB looks bad but...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I knew this would start not long after BoB was announced. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ...but, BoB aircraft is said to have twice as much poly's as FB aircraft.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Flyable polys only. AI less polys? I admit the flyable polys will be pretty, especially in the screen shots. During BoB night bomber/fighter missions, the AI fighters and AI gunners see in the dark, and the player can't see the new polys. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


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Bearcat99
01-25-2004, 06:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tempestate:
Who wants to go backwards to FB after they have BOB, nobody in their right mind I think. This means in turn that you lose the hard fought A/C the community have strived for, especially the modellers like Gibbage.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dunno.... I go back to IL2...and ikt IS a different sim BTW....sounds different , flies different,looks different... but it is STILL great!! FB is a classic. As long as I have a computer that runs it I will fly it. Maybe not as much once something better comes along...but as long as my computer can runit it will be there.

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Raider_356th
01-25-2004, 06:15 PM
ok, u guys lost me... Is the BoB the addon for FB thats gettin the P38 and P51B and the other birds, or is a a whole new game?

Wildman
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LEXX_Luthor
01-25-2004, 06:23 PM
Addon CD is...addon, for our FB, coming in Febuary (probably, June http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

BoB is a totally new flight sim, coming in 2005 (probably, 2006 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). From what Oleg has said, BoB will be the first step in building a world dominating Olegarchy of WW2 theaters covering all of WW2. BoB will be having France and Poland addons packs, according to Interview with Oleg over at simhq.

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crazyivan1970
01-25-2004, 06:27 PM
Take it easy folks http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Remember original IL2? What did we have? 30 something AC? And look what we`v got now. BOB is a brand spanking new concept, new graphics engine, new game engine, new everything. It will take of with few planes and based on that eventually turn into something much bigger but with whole new level of quality. BOB is expandable and more likely will turn into western theater one day... who knows, it could be another revolution in flight simming, like IL2 was back in the day. We shall wait and see

V!
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Aeronautico
01-25-2004, 07:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, ah! I like it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

As simple as that! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

A.

ZG77_Lignite
01-25-2004, 07:16 PM
Something thats not being said here (unless I missed it) is that the MODEL is only a small part of the inclusion of planes in any game. Above and beyond this, Damage Model, Flight Dynamics, Cockpits, Game Controls, AI, Mission/Campaign/etc are what make up the largest part of the workload for including planes (be it FB or BoB or CFS). The incompatability between FB and BoB has already been made apparent with the screen shot of the Hurricane. The level of details are simply impossible to 'transfer'. It is actually easier to start from scratch than to convert things. Regardless of how it is done, it is going to take time to include new aircraft in BoB. FB aircraft will be of very little help to BoB, and the workload to do as you (Tempstate) ask is restrictive.


P.S. This is not a slight against all the hard work that the great modelers have put into FB (and hopefully will continue for BoB). But no doubt they realize that just getting a finished model to Oleg does not mean the aircraft is ready for inclusion in FB (or BoB). Much more work must be done to fly it in-game.

LEXX_Luthor
01-25-2004, 07:19 PM
crazyivan:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It will take off with few planes and based on that eventually turn into something much bigger but with whole new level of quality.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks crazyivan. I did get a little Panic there. Okay, so they get BoB out the door, but they can addon the other AI flyables later? I can like that.


WUAFBadsight:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>you will still have FB , you will lose nothing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
NO, they make you send in your FB CD before you can upgrade to BoB. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

PANIC


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Aeronautico
01-25-2004, 07:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tempestate:
I am hoping it will at least go like this

IL2 Original
IL2 FB - includes original planes and maps
IL@ ACES FB expansion - includes il2 and FB A/C

NEW COMPUTER needed at this point http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BOB - does not include any il2 A/C
BOB free patch - includes all il2 A/C and maps that olegs team have converted for BOB engine

BOB expansion1 - Late war Europe
BOB expansion2 - new A/C and the Med front and Afrika
BOB expansion3 - Pacific WArs<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, you're missing at least another official expantion to IL-2, let alone Luthier's stand-alone sequel for Christmas 2004, including the whole FB.

BOB free patch? I don't think so...

BOB expansion1 looks like it's early war's days in Poland and the battle of France (what about Netherlands, etc.?).

new A/C and the Med front and Afrika seems to be, and hopefully is, the highest priority to Oleg.

Aero

Tempestate
01-26-2004, 01:34 AM
another official add-on WOW

And Luthiers stand alone sequel, point me to some details here, that sounds interesting. LIKE HOLLLY &#%@

Aeronautico
01-26-2004, 01:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tempestate:
another official add-on WOW<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Might be another disk (more likely?), or a freeware.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And Luthiers stand alone sequel, point me to some details here<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nothing is "official" yet, but it will involve a new theatre (new maps, new planes, etc.), a somehow improved IL-2 code, and probably will incorporate everything from FB (maps, planes, skins, maybe missions and campaigns), provided it's already on your HDD (sort of what EE:CH was to EE:AH). Some 3rd party modellers are already on it.

Aero

Aaron_GT
01-26-2004, 02:10 AM
A lot of work has been put into 3D models
and the research on the FMs. I don't see
that this is going to be lost. The existing
3D models can be used as the basis for more
detailed ones, saving time, and some of the
3D models in the game might even be low poly
versions of more detailed models existing
on the hard disks of the modellers.

I am sure that over the last 3 years it has
become clear to Oleg that the original IL2
and FB code base has shortcomings in design.
I also imagine that all sorts of fixes and
additions to the code to add or fix features
have made the code messy. Trying to reterofit
more things would lead to the code becoming
very hard to maintain. Thus, armed with all
the additional experience Oleg and team now
have at this sort of project, both from the
technical aspect, and the project management
perspective, it probably makes a lot of sense
to redesign now.

If you look at what Oleg has said it seems
that the new sim is a basis for expansion
to many theatres, so most likely from Oleg's
end of things, it is probably going to be
a better software architecture, more modular
and extensible. It will introduce new bugs,
but these are probably going to be easier
to hunt down than bugs in the IL2/FB code
base would be if it was used for another
two years, especially if new features were
reterofitted.

Total code redesign happens now and then
in many projects, or existing code bases
are junked, but ideas and techniques are
held over to new products. An obvious example
of this would be the windows 95-98-Me line.
This code base has been largely dropped for
NT based systems, but ideas have been reused.

Also starting again gives Oleg the chance
to put enhanced software engineering principles
in from the outset. I get the impression
that there have been a few hiccups in code
merges in the past. Having said that, given
the sheer complexity of the system, and the
comparatively small number of developers
involved it is actually an incredible
achievement. My wife is a senior software QA
analyst and she is frankly gobsmacked from
a professional perspective that the product
is so bug free. It does have the advantage
that it can withstand quite a number of soft
bugs (e.g. FMs slightly off, for example) but
even so... Plus it is not mission critical, of
course - getting a mission critical piece
of software of much less complexity (such
as JBoss) fully tested took 30 man YEARS!

SpinSpinSugar
01-26-2004, 03:55 AM
I would guess that the popularity of BoB will be limited until they expand to include years beyond '41.

You underestimate the power of crap-plane whiners. And besides, just because it doesn't include the P51 doesn't mean it can't be popular. IL2 did Ok, after all. Some people actually PREFER early war (shock! horror!).

I am glad BoB will be entirely new, I am glad it will focus on less aircraft in more detail, and I'm glad most people understand you can't just port flight models and so forth from one to the other.

As for expansions, I'd far rather they went in the other direction. Spain, Poland, the Lowlands, and France would be awesome and also shift a few more copies in the relevant countries. Besides, doing something that's not really been covered before would likely appeal to Oleg's sense of historical balance. Unfortunately I guess the dollar will prevail, but Ubi is a European company after all.

If we do advance forward, I'd far rather see the Mediterranean and North Africa in detail than the development of another 100+ aircraft 1945 survey Sim. We've pretty much got that in Forgotten Battles now. For the American market, a new look at the Pacific would (I'm guessing) sell more than another rehash of the Western Front. Aircraft carriers are a big draw. The Med and the Pacific could be a case of shared effort in that regard.

Cheers, SSS

Capt.LoneRanger
01-26-2004, 05:01 AM
I guess BOB will be even more popular than IL2FB ever was. One reason for that is the popular setting, since this was the most famous air-war in WW2.
Another point is the fact, that it is developed by the very same team, that made IL2 and FB so great and so popular.
Additionally, this will be a very sophisticated flightsim. Just look at the details on even the INTERNAL modelling of BOB a/c! We can only guess how complex the damage modell will be. Judging from the pure fact, that they even DID internal modelling promises a DM far beyond what is currently known from flightsims.
There will be less flyables in BOB, but hey, we'll trade that for a much more complex FM and AI, and you won't notice the difference, fighting against the promised 100-200 a/c simultaniously!!!

Sounds defiantely good to me!


greets
Capt.LoneRanger

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Fennec_P
01-26-2004, 05:19 AM
Less is more. Fewer planes, more complex and accurate depiction of each.

SpinSpinSugar
01-26-2004, 05:36 AM
Indeed Fennec_P, it will be interesting to see what direction the whining takes when things get more and more complex and realistic. "I should see fabric flapping to the RIGHT of the gunports in a left hand turn"; "Multiple birdstrikes with pigeons would CLEARLY cover the canopy with sticky red feathers", etc.

Can't wait for it, really can't. I see IL2:FB as a whole league ahead of it's contempories in the simming world, I'm sure BoB will make similar strides.

Cheers,

SSS

Fennec_P
01-26-2004, 06:06 AM
Not so much more complex, but more time to polish each airplane. For example, maybe all of the cockpit instruments will work in BoB, as opposed to FB where most of the instruments and switches are static.

If anyone whines about the birdstrike modelling, just tell them to try it themselves. As for the gun ports, tell them to stand in front of one.

Weather_Man
01-26-2004, 06:38 AM
And there will be bombers. Hundreds at once raining pure hell on the poor island. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I can't wait.

SpinSpinSugar
01-26-2004, 06:51 AM
....being scattered and sent home with their tails between their legs by plucky but determined attacks from Hurris and Spitfires, masterfully controlled with the aid of Radar.

Ah yes, it will be fun.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SSS

VVS-Manuc
01-26-2004, 07:43 AM
Bad News...NO P-51 in BoB !!!!!!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Fennec_P
01-26-2004, 07:48 AM
I think it would be worse news if the P-51 was in BoB. A little unfair to our German friends...

LEXX_Luthor
01-26-2004, 11:23 AM
Don't worry, the BoB P-51 will be Balanced by Ta-152. Simmers will Demand it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Less is more. Fewer planes, more complex and accurate depiction of each.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is a step backwards in flight sim development. The logic stated is the Single Plane Sim, like original DOS Flanker. One (1) flyable plane with complex and accurate depiction.

Only when all planes are flyable, then increase detail. Detail is Good, applied to all planes which are all flyable. For big bombers with many crew stations, not all stations need be modded. Pilot is assumed. Of course we will hear Whining about all crew stations need be modded, which if true no stations will be modded, ever.

Which is the case today.

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carguy_
01-26-2004, 11:41 AM
No problem for players who fly 2-3 their favorites.It`d be nice if I had to learn flying almost from the start again.

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Tempestate
01-27-2004, 12:52 AM
The idea for me would not be to build a casual flight sim with casual models but to do as Sturmovik has done and slowly build 50 or so super accurate flanker models over the years to get the mother of all super accurate flight sims.

As for Luthiers project the cats out of the bag

Its the pacific theatre!!!!!!!!!!! as a new game using the il2FB engine (not to be confused with the new BOB engine)