PDA

View Full Version : Rate ACS's story [SPOILERS]



dimbismp
10-22-2015, 06:16 PM
For some of us,the story is the main reason we play (AC) games.

So,we are getting kind of mixed impressions about the story.(although almost everyone says that the ending is disappointing and anticlimactic).

How do you rate the story?What about it's length?
It would be helpful if you also compared it to the other games' story.Please avoid spoilers(if you absolutely have to say something spoilerish,use a spoiler tag)

VestigialLlama4
10-22-2015, 06:25 PM
Story I'll give it a 7.

dimbismp
10-22-2015, 06:31 PM
Story I'll give it a 7.
How would you rate ACU?

lothario-da-be
10-22-2015, 06:41 PM
Can the people giving ACS a score please give scores to some of the other ac games too. Comparing to Untiy only isn't really fair :p

bonehakker561
10-22-2015, 06:58 PM
Man I expected so mush from this game present day wise. But I think ubisoft has killed it. Now Thay are just stretching the story without any reason just for money. All the fans are crying for a proper present day story sequences with a new strong present day protagonist or bring desmound back. The shroud of Eden at the end of acs has opened the doors to bring desmound back so he can fight and save the world from juno. With this it would be a restart for the character. But if they can't do this then they can bring in a new modern day protagonist who is more interesting and strong to engage the long running fans of the series and bring back the long lost lore of assassin's creed. I know ubisoft that you don't give a damn about fans but please bring back the present day story but not with cgi or 1st person abstargo employe crap but with a playable character. Give us desmound back or a new strong hero. This is the only way you can win back the fans.
Story wise acs was good but present day was again disappointing and ending was horrible with that cgi stuff. I give 4 out of 10. Bring back the present day lore ubisoft!!!!

bonehakker561
10-22-2015, 07:06 PM
And for God's sake it's bin 3 years since juno was released but it isn't like its a big deal. She just shows here and there and say bullshift which makes no scence
When will she become a real threat .minerva hasn't shown up since then too. Bring her back too So that she could help defeat juno.

TimeLock09
10-22-2015, 07:12 PM
Man I expected so mush from this game present day wise. But I think ubisoft has killed it. Now Thay are just stretching the story without any reason just for money. All the fans are crying for a proper present day story sequences with a new strong present day protagonist or bring desmound back. The shroud of Eden at the end of acs has opened the doors to bring desmound back so he can fight and save the world from juno. With this it would be a restart for the character. But if they can't do this then they can bring in a new modern day protagonist who is more interesting and strong to engage the long running fans of the series and bring back the long lost lore of assassin's creed. I know ubisoft that you don't give a damn about fans but please bring back the present day story but not with cgi or 1st person abstargo employe crap but with a playable character. Give us desmound back or a new strong hero. This is the only way you can win back the fans.
Story wise acs was good but present day was again disappointing and ending was horrible with that cgi stuff. I give 4 out of 10. Bring back the present day lore ubisoft!!!!

The Modern Day story IS going somewhere, it's just taking alot longer than people expected. We have the movie next year and the present day story will be absolutely HUGE, it's gonna kickstart the whole thing off, you'll see. Then we have the comics. It's becoming it's own thing, even if we don't get to play in the present... as of yet. We don't need Desmond back, we've got Galina now for that. And so far she seems pretty cool, with the backflips and whatnot in Syndicate. Give MD/PD time. It needs time. They're thinking, they're creating. It will happen trust me, but for now we have to be even more patient and I know it sucks. But trust me when I say the movie will just light the fire on Modern Day. It has too. And it will.

TimeLock09
10-22-2015, 07:15 PM
I do think we are gonna play as Galina though in the not so distant future. It seems ... obvious now as she's in Syndicate. This also supports the theory we ARE actually going to Asia next year (well hopefully) Cause Galina does backflips and stuff in Syndicate. So they'd have to "re-work" the combat to martial arts and stuff. So hopefully Asia next year for the historical part, and playing as galina for the present. It adds up. It makes sence. I don't believe it'll be Japan, personally I believe it will be China. I just know Modern Day is just getting started. It's been slow yes, but it's gonna "wake up" pretty soon and Juno WILL become a threat ;)

VestigialLlama4
10-22-2015, 07:25 PM
How would you rate ACU?

Well if we are going to do this. If these are high numbers bear in mind I am a fan of these games so I am biased and these are pretty arbitrary.

AC1 - 9.5
AC2 - 9
ACB - 8
ACR - 8
AC3 - 8.5
Black Flag - 9
UNITY - 6.5
ROGUE - 5
Syndicate - 7

Storywise for me, AC1, AC2, AC3 and Black Flag were the best, with the lower numbers for AC3 being because of some structural issues at the final half.

AC1 is still the best story, best plot and most interesting characterization. AC2 is slightly less ambitious but still well structured. Black Flag is the best structured especially for using such a diffuse plot. AC3, well it had amazing set-up, conflict and characters but the structural issues ruined it near the climax.

Farlander1991
10-22-2015, 07:31 PM
I saw only the main story, so when it comes to secondary characters like Ned and such, this being an open-world game, a lot depends on how they're handled in side-missions (as it's a kind of game where a lot of side-missions are character-based rather than activity-based).

When it comes to the main story, my general reception is positive, though I think AC4 might stay my favourite AC story yet. But then again, I need to experience story in Syndicate myself, but here are some things that I can't say I think are great:
1) the character arc of Jacob and Evie, it seems to be quite stagnant in the middle, though I'm not sure, maybe I've missed some cutscenes or gameplay conversations. It's mostly moving in the first couple sequences and the last ones, and feels very sudden as a result.
2) I don't like the cutscenes between sequences with Jacob and Evie dialogue in the background of view of London. It makes transitions seem very sudden.
3) I don't like the post-boss scene with Queen Victoria, it just feels so.... strange.

Other than that, though, reactions are positive. I like the heroes, I like the Templars, and Starrick in particular, IMO, is a great character.

ModernWaffle
10-22-2015, 07:32 PM
Well if we are going to do this. If these are high numbers bear in mind I am a fan of these games so I am biased and these are pretty arbitrary.

AC1 - 9.5
AC2 - 9
ACB - 8
ACR - 8
AC3 - 8.5
Black Flag - 9
UNITY - 6.5
ROGUE - 5
Syndicate - 7

Storywise for me, AC1, AC2, AC3 and Black Flag were the best, with the lower numbers for AC3 being because of some structural issues at the final half.

AC1 is still the best story, best plot and most interesting characterization. AC2 is slightly less ambitious but still well structured.


So guess the story still hasn't returned to AC3/4 standard yet. What did you think about Jacob/Evie though? Do you think they have a chance to match the standards of Ezio or Edward for the fans or did they end up as one-dimensional characters?

VestigialLlama4
10-22-2015, 07:36 PM
Other than that, though, reactions are positive. I like the heroes, I like the Templars, and Starrick in particular, IMO, is a great character.

Yeah, I never expected he would be so impressive. It's not that he's as sympathetic as Haytham or noble minded as others, it's that he really does believe he's the hero and sees the Assassins as villains. He puts that across really well.

By the way, among the side missions, the World War 1 simulation is pretty good. It's better than Unity's Time Anomalies and well, I can't really say more without spoiling it, but I do like the surprising yet strangely familiar person we meet there.

Farlander1991
10-22-2015, 07:45 PM
Yeah, I never expected he would be so impressive. It's not that he's as sympathetic as Haytham or noble minded as others, it's that he really does believe he's the hero and sees the Assassins as villains. He puts that across really well.


Yeah. And the very first scene from the trailer is in a totally different context which makes you go, 'Yeah, you're acting inadequate but I understand your pain' rather than 'Holy **** that guy's just nuts and crazy"

VestigialLlama4
10-22-2015, 07:49 PM
So guess the story still hasn't returned to AC3/4 standard yet. What did you think about Jacob/Evie though? Do you think they have a chance to match the standards of Ezio or Edward for the fans or did they end up as one-dimensional characters?

I would say that the two of them together are better than their composite parts. If Jacob and Evie were individually the stars of their own game they wouldn't be interesting, which makes them weak. Adewale without Edward is pretty interesting for example. Haytham and Connor are pretty interesting separately and together. Desmond and Subject 16 are pretty interesting separately and together. Not so with these two.

The problem with Jacob and Evie is that there doesn't seem to be anything to them aside from being Assassins. There's nothing relatable about them. Connor is a Native American and outsider who has double identity, Ezio is a middle-class kid whose happy family was destroyed, Edward is a poor sailor who wanted money and opportunity, even Altair for whom "the Assassin were the only life he knew" during the Crusades, he has this notion of honor and former position to retain and then has to take the Order in a new way. On some fundamental level you related to them whereas Jacob and Evie are superheroes in Victorian London. There's no personal beef against Starrick which is good on one hand because it's not a revenge story, but on the other hand there's not a sense as in Connor or Edward that they are intimately involved in the struggles of that age.

The problem is the same as Unity. It's no longer the case where the setting exists and Assassins and Templars operate as metaphors for some aspects of history. You actually have the Assassin Brotherhood as a Gang of Hats, a Cult that drinks tea with the Lizard People. In the New World, the Assassins stood for immigrants, for slaves, for indigenous peoples, for the working poor. In the Renaissance, the Assassins stood for Renaissance Patrons, scholars, humanists, artists, thieves, mercenaries and prostitutes. In UNITY and SYNDICATE, the Assassins stand for Assassins and nothing else. To me this makes the setting lose immersion.

RVSage
10-22-2015, 07:52 PM
I saw only the main story, so when it comes to secondary characters like Ned and such, this being an open-world game, a lot depends on how they're handled in side-missions (as it's a kind of game where a lot of side-missions are character-based rather than activity-based).

When it comes to the main story, my general reception is positive, though I think AC4 might stay my favourite AC story yet. But then again, I need to experience story in Syndicate myself, but here are some things that I can't say I think are great:
1) the character arc of Jacob and Evie, it seems to be quite stagnant in the middle, though I'm not sure, maybe I've missed some cutscenes or gameplay conversations. It's mostly moving in the first couple sequences and the last ones, and feels very sudden as a result.
2) I don't like the cutscenes between sequences with Jacob and Evie dialogue in the background of view of London. It makes transitions seem very sudden.
3) I don't like the post-boss scene with Queen Victoria, it just feels so.... strange.

Other than that, though, reactions are positive. I like the heroes, I like the Templars, and Starrick in particular, IMO, is a great character.

hmm so many views on the game, I have to wait till Nov 19 for the game

king-hailz
10-22-2015, 08:02 PM
I'd give it a 6.5/10.
I'd give Unity a 6/10 in terms of story.

It's about the same, presented well, boring plot, however the difference is that this has better protagonists than Unity's Arno.

VestigialLlama4
10-22-2015, 08:03 PM
Yeah. And the very first scene from the trailer is in a totally different context which makes you go, 'Yeah, you're acting inadequate but I understand your pain' rather than 'Holy **** that guy's just nuts and crazy"

Totally. Since Syndicate is done by the same team as TYRANNY OF KING WASHINGTON, if you go back you'll see that King Washington has a similar characterization as Starrick. He goes between sudden violence and calm, and believes himself a hero. Syndicate also took from King Washington Part III, the motif of brief scenes showing the bad guys from their point of view. There they justified it by the Apple being shared between Connor and Washington but here well, it's not clear but since it is on a cloud maybe they pulled Starrick's memories and rendered that there?

ModernWaffle
10-22-2015, 08:15 PM
Yeah. And the very first scene from the trailer is in a totally different context which makes you go, 'Yeah, you're acting inadequate but I understand your pain' rather than 'Holy **** that guy's just nuts and crazy"

*Sigh* Really glad to hear that. Going to see what the context is, but seems like it was a bad idea to use that in the trailer as it just makes Starrick seem so generic.



I would say that the two of them together are better than their composite parts. If Jacob and Evie were individually the stars of their own game they wouldn't be interesting, which makes them weak. Adewale without Edward is pretty interesting for example. Haytham and Connor are pretty interesting separately and together. Desmond and Subject 16 are pretty interesting separately and together. Not so with these two.

The problem with Jacob and Evie is that there doesn't seem to be anything to them aside from being Assassins. There's nothing relatable about them. Connor is a Native American and outsider who has double identity, Ezio is a middle-class kid whose happy family was destroyed, Edward is a poor sailor who wanted money and opportunity, even Altair for whom "the Assassin were the only life he knew" during the Crusades, he has this notion of honor and former position to retain and then has to take the Order in a new way. On some fundamental level you related to them whereas Jacob and Evie are superheroes in Victorian London. There's no personal beef against Starrick which is good on one hand because it's not a revenge story, but on the other hand there's not a sense as in Connor or Edward that they are intimately involved in the struggles of that age.

The problem is the same as Unity. It's no longer the case where the setting exists and Assassins and Templars operate as metaphors for some aspects of history. You actually have the Assassin Brotherhood as a Gang of Hats, a Cult that drinks tea with the Lizard People. In the New World, the Assassins stood for immigrants, for slaves, for indigenous peoples, for the working poor. In the Renaissance, the Assassins stood for Renaissance Patrons, scholars, humanists, artists, thieves, mercenaries and prostitutes. In UNITY and SYNDICATE, the Assassins stand for Assassins and nothing else. To me this makes the setting lose immersion.

Guess they're taking it 'safe' with Jacob and Evie then :(. Don't know if this is given from the game, but I was expecting it to show Jacob as a pessimist who doubts the inherent good of people and Evie as the optimist - with both learning a bit from each other and finding the right medium in the end.

VestigialLlama4
10-22-2015, 08:35 PM
*Sigh* Really glad to hear that. Going to see what the context is, but seems like it was a bad idea to use that in the trailer as it just makes Starrick seem so generic.

Well I personally like that a game can surprise or mislead you with promotion without actually changing anything. Context really does matter.


Guess they're taking it 'safe' with Jacob and Evie then :(. Don't know if this is given from the game, but I was expecting it to show Jacob as a pessimist who doubts the inherent good of people and Evie as the optimist - with both learning a bit from each other and finding the right medium in the end.

Something of that is there in the dynamic, but not to the same extent. If you look closely you can get a sense that Jacob wasn't close to his father and he felt jealous of Evie being Daddy's girl, and so he takes out some of his resentment towards his Dad towards Evie. The thing is it's more an elder-younger sibling dynamic (Evie being older than Jacob) than a twin dynamic, and ultimately it's not something you really relate to.

I mean in Forsaken you have the relationship betwen Haytham and Jenny and that was the best part of that and you can relate to that dynamic because the family issues are something familiar. Likewise with Ezio and Claudia, Ezio takes a while to see Claudia as "more than kid sister I have to protect and tune out".

harsab
10-22-2015, 10:46 PM
Can someone just tell me how much AC lore we explore in the game? as long as it's more then Unity i'm happy.

cawatrooper9
10-22-2015, 10:51 PM
AC1- 8.3
AC2- 7.3
ACB- 7.0
ACR- 9.0
AC3- 8.3
ACBF- 8.6
ACU- 6.0
ACRO- 8.5
ACS- (haven't played, but based on what little I've heard I'll predict at 8.2)

RVSage
10-22-2015, 10:53 PM
I will reserve my rating after Nov 19

AquilaTempestas
10-22-2015, 10:57 PM
I've just seen the Syndicate ending, and I can safely say, that was crap.

Black Flag remains my favourite.

harsab
10-22-2015, 11:32 PM
I've just seen the Syndicate ending, and I can safely say, that was crap.

Black Flag remains my favourite.

BF for me was the most boring generic ending ever, so i hope i think the opposite of syndicate. AC2/Brotherhood/revelations had the best endings. Endings that left you wanting for more, not shed a tear & think ''what? that's it?''

cawatrooper9
10-23-2015, 03:19 PM
BF for me was the most boring generic ending ever, so i hope i think the opposite of syndicate. AC2/Brotherhood/revelations had the best endings. Endings that left you wanting for more, not shed a tear & think ''what? that's it?''

Black Flag was a very human ending. In the end, that makes sense for Edward. Sure, he got involved with the Assassins, and we know he continues work with them after the game, but he was always a man before an Assassin.

It may not have contributed much to the lore, but I think Edward got the ending he deserved, and that's not a bad thing at all.

dimbismp
10-27-2015, 03:50 PM
The story was ok(better than Unity),but far from great.Here are some things that i didn't like:

Starrick was underused
He was a really interesting character and he had the potential to become the second best Templar ever(after Haytham ofc).However he was underused IMO.We only properly interacted with him in the final mission.For example,Cesare was nothing special,but he was given so much screen time,that he became really memorable.If only this was the case with Starrick...

The story was a little bit too lighthearted
1.All the historical figures are your allies and they are reduced to caricatures.
2.There are no twists,no dilemmas,no tragedy,almost no disagreements between the twins.
3.The writers weren't sure about how to portray the Templars.Some of them seem more morally grey(Elliotson,Brewster,Starrick),others do what they do for their own personal good(the transportation woman,Ferris,Twopenny),while others are just maniacs(Roth and also the politician a little bit)
The quest to liberate London was not that difficult
At the beggining we were told that London had been under Templar rule for a century.The whole system is controlled by the Templars,corruption rules everywhere etc.The assassins themselves fear to face the Templars.
However,the twins just go to London and kill target after target,while Starrick does nothing to stop them.

MD is decent though
The story is finally progressing.

So,overall:
Twins story=7/10
Twins+MD=7,5/10

For comparison,here's how i rate all the stories:
AC:7
Ac2:8
ACB:6,5
ACR:8
AC3:7
AC4:8,5
ACRo:7,5
ACU:6
ACS:7

Farlander1991
10-27-2015, 04:10 PM
For example,Cesare was nothing special,but he was given so much screen time,that he became really memorable.If only this was the case with Starrick...

Starrick has much more screen time than Cesare overall. Biggest amount of screen-time for Cesare is focused on the very last part of ACB, and even there, after the talk with the pope, it's spent mostly running away.


2.There are no twists,no dilemmas,no tragedy,almost no disagreements between the twins.

Really, almost no disagreements? Like, not even that little spat at the end of sequence 3 that has broken their relationship to the point that they've actually spent little time together and whenever they had there was an air of annoyance and resentment? ;)


3.The writers weren't sure about how to portray the Templars.Some of them seem more morally grey(Elliotson,Brewster,Starrick),others do what they do for their own personal good(the transportation woman,Ferris,Twopenny),while others are just maniacs(Roth and also the politician a little bit)

Just like AC1 then ;) :p


However,the twins just go to London and kill target after target,while Starrick does nothing to stop them.

He sends Thorne to take care of them, he tells to double the Templar presence around the city and make sure it's held, he was trying to make sure that the Parlament is under his control, and when all those people he delegated the work to failed, he went to take care of it himself.

You might say that he doesn't do a lot of 'field work' throughout the game, but he's essentially like Al Mualim in that regard ;)

dimbismp
10-27-2015, 04:39 PM
Starrick has much more screen time than Cesare overall. Biggest amount of screen-time for Cesare is focused on the very last part of ACB, and even there, after the talk with the pope, it's spent mostly running away.
Well,i am talking about field work.Cesare appears at the siege,during the Caterina rescue mission,during the Banker assassination,during the apple mission,and at almost all the final missions.
On the other hand,Starrick physically appears only during the conversation with his cousin and the final mission.At least there are plenty end-sequence cutscenes and we get glimpses of his greatness(although they cannot be justified by the animus technology)




Really, almost no disagreements? Like, not even that little spat at the end of sequence 3 that has broken their relationship to the point that they've actually spent little time together and whenever they had there was an air of annoyance and resentment? ;)
I was expecting more actual disagreements regarding their different methods and the Creed and not the "Father told that","I clear up your mess" type of disagreements.Anyway,the story is lighthearted.Someone may love this,but i don't





Just like AC1 then ;) :p
Well,yes.




He sends Thorne to take care of them, he tells to double the Templar presence around the city and make sure it's held, he was trying to make sure that the Parlament is under his control, and when all those people he delegated the work to failed, he went to take care of it himself.
Thorne was just after the PoE.The "double the guards" thing had no impact on the next missions.I mean,i was expecting from him to send proper Assassin hunters against Jacob and/or to try to reoccupy the lost boroughs.[/quote]

Journey93
10-27-2015, 05:00 PM
I would give the story a 5/10 at best.
Very underwhelming, I expected a lot more.

The twins weren't bad or anything but hardly memorable. The story was too lighthearted (Black Flag was the best mix), there were no real stakes no tension.
The villians were jokes

The ending is probably the worst of the series

At least London is fun to explore

VestigialLlama4
10-27-2015, 05:26 PM
Best Story
1) AC1
2) Black Flag
3) AC3
4) AC2
5) Syndicate
6) Revelations
7) Brotherhood

Of course when I say Syndicate has a better story than Revelations and Brotherhood, I am not saying it's a better game, its just that story and plot wise, those two games individually don't have what Syndicate has. Needless to say Rogue and Unity are so bad that they don't qualify in a list of Best Story.


Starrick was underused
He was a really interesting character and he had the potential to become the second best Templar ever(after Haytham ofc).

I actually think Starrick is better than Haytham as a villain and character. Haytham is not a complex character at all. He's misunderstood as this really cool, deep guy chiefly because he came after Rodrigo and Cesare but by himself he's not complex as Rogue proves clearly. He only became complex because of his relationship to Kanieh;tio and Connor. Starrick is more interesting since he defines and embodies what Templars believe and practise and he's got a code of honour and intelligence to him. Starrick's also more charismatic than Haytham and gives better speeches and moreover his plan makes sense. Haytham keeps repeating that his way of turning America into a dictatorship would be better than George Washington being President (just no...). While Starrick demonstrates and practises what he preaches. He proves himself right (that big tea speech about people who depend on him) by being so indispensable to London that it can't run effectively without him.


However,the twins just go to London and kill target after target,while Starrick does nothing to stop them.

Yeah...that part made no sense to me.

Hans684
10-27-2015, 06:59 PM
1. Acr
2. Ac3
3. Ac4:bf
4. AC
5. Acro
6. Acs
7. ac2/acb
8. acu

Journey93
10-27-2015, 08:29 PM
My ranking:

1. Ezio Trilogy (its one big story for me, might be unfair for the others but I don't care), Revelations was the best then 2 and then Brotherhood
2. AC1
3. AC4
4. AC3
5. AC Rogue
6. AC Syndicate
7. AC Unity


For me these last two years have been **** from a story and characters perspective.
The cities are still fun to explore but thats about it.

LoyalACFan
10-28-2015, 03:47 AM
Spoilers maybe, but I'm in Sequence 5, and for some reason totally unbeknownst to me, I have a street gang at my command.

I mean, I get that they did that little speech on top of the carriage about standing up to Starrick and his cutthroats, but seriously? The Rooks are supposed to be a MAJOR theme in the game, right? But as of now, they're just a random bunch of dudes in yellow shirts who cry out a greeting when they see me in the street and occasionally ask me how my brother's doing. There are literally ZERO identifiable characters in the gang. Not one. (Agnes I guess? Kinda?) I had a similar complaint about the totally disposable crew in AC4, but at least there I had Adewale as a major player and a figurative voice for them, plus the guys who sang the shanties who gave the crew a little personality.

But the Rooks... man. They're just... there, for some reason. And loyal to the death, for some other, more perplexing reason. Did I miss something by playing as Evie all the time? Was there like a Jacob-centric cutscene somewhere that I missed?

Hans684
10-28-2015, 06:23 AM
The gangs wasn't needed, simple as that. You said it yourself, even the crew in Adéwalé, Edward and Shay's skips are more important. They have voices and someone to represent them.

VestigialLlama4
10-28-2015, 07:05 AM
The Rooks are supposed to be a MAJOR theme in the game, right? But as of now, they're just a random bunch of dudes in yellow shirts who cry out a greeting when they see me in the street and occasionally ask me how my brother's doing. There are literally ZERO identifiable characters in the gang.

Well what did you expect...the freaking Homestead?

LoyalACFan
10-28-2015, 05:19 PM
Well what did you expect...the freaking Homestead?

No, but I expected there to at least be a couple of Rooks who had names, character arcs, and relevant input in the story, versus a random pack of yellow-shirted hooligans crashing on my couch in the train. I mean, what did these people do before Jacob showed up, and why the hell are they so eager to follow him? And even if they had a great story with a ton of identifiable characters, the mechanic itself feels very half-baked and unnecessary IMO. To date, I haven't consciously used the Rooks in gameplay a single time. In fact, I've actually found them to be a hindrance when they do show up (they wreck my multi-finisher setups).

cawatrooper9
10-28-2015, 06:55 PM
No, but I expected there to at least be a couple of Rooks who had names, character arcs, and relevant input in the story, versus a random pack of yellow-shirted hooligans crashing on my couch in the train. I mean, what did these people do before Jacob showed up, and why the hell are they so eager to follow him? And even if they had a great story with a ton of identifiable characters, the mechanic itself feels very half-baked and unnecessary IMO. To date, I haven't consciously used the Rooks in gameplay a single time. In fact, I've actually found them to be a hindrance when they do show up (they wreck my multi-finisher setups).

Have you upgraded them at all? I've found the gang upgrades to be invaluable.

As for the impersonal nature of the gang...
Well, I definitely always liked how attached I got to each of my Assassin recruits in ACB and ACR. I don't necessarily feel the same way here, but I guess that's what happens when you scale a relatively small Brotherhood for a city-wide gang takeover. Remember how random citizens would grab guards in ACB so you could escape? You didn't know their names either, and I think that's pretty much what's going on here.

LoyalACFan
10-29-2015, 02:37 AM
Have you upgraded them at all? I've found the gang upgrades to be invaluable.

As for the impersonal nature of the gang...
Well, I definitely always liked how attached I got to each of my Assassin recruits in ACB and ACR. I don't necessarily feel the same way here, but I guess that's what happens when you scale a relatively small Brotherhood for a city-wide gang takeover. Remember how random citizens would grab guards in ACB so you could escape? You didn't know their names either, and I think that's pretty much what's going on here.

Yeah, the gang upgrades are super useful, but they don't make me feel invested in the gang whatsoever. They could have just as easily put all of the gang upgrades in the regular skill tree, and left out the gang thing altogether.

I don't know, it just seems really strange to me that the game's marketing was SUPER heavy on the Rooks (even the box art, with its "Welcome to the Family" tagline and host of random Rooks the same size as Evie on the front) when they're such a comically superfluous influence in the game. The civilians who grab guards in ACB make for a good analogy, actually, because I feel exactly the same amount of connection to the Rooks as I did those random civilians on the street, and the Rooks are supposed to be my loyal employees who answer directly to me. I just never could buy the fact that Jacob just popped up in the city one day and IMMEDIATELY had a gang at his back as soon as he got the notion.

BananaBlighter
10-29-2015, 10:03 AM
No, but I expected there to at least be a couple of Rooks who had names, character arcs, and relevant input in the story, versus a random pack of yellow-shirted hooligans crashing on my couch in the train. I mean, what did these people do before Jacob showed up, and why the hell are they so eager to follow him? And even if they had a great story with a ton of identifiable characters, the mechanic itself feels very half-baked and unnecessary IMO. To date, I haven't consciously used the Rooks in gameplay a single time. In fact, I've actually found them to be a hindrance when they do show up (they wreck my multi-finisher setups).

I wasn't expecting anything great, but I totally agree. I never use them, they are a hindrance and there's just not enough control over them. Would have felt so much better if there were identifiable rooks, maybe people to replace the gang leader in each borough (say, Jacob/Evie are the equivalent of Maxwell Roth while each borough under your control gets a new unique leader).

BananaBlighter
10-29-2015, 10:06 AM
Yeah, the gang upgrades are super useful, but they don't make me feel invested in the gang whatsoever. They could have just as easily put all of the gang upgrades in the regular skill tree, and left out the gang thing altogether.

I don't know, it just seems really strange to me that the game's marketing was SUPER heavy on the Rooks (even the box art, with its "Welcome to the Family" tagline and host of random Rooks the same size as Evie on the front) when they're such a comically superfluous influence in the game. The civilians who grab guards in ACB make for a good analogy, actually, because I feel exactly the same amount of connection to the Rooks as I did those random civilians on the street, and the Rooks are supposed to be my loyal employees who answer directly to me. I just never could buy the fact that Jacob just popped up in the city one day and IMMEDIATELY had a gang at his back as soon as he got the notion.

You know what would've been cool, if we actually had to take on missions for some of the upgrades. For example we would have to infiltrate some factory before we could bribe the Blighter repairman to leave the country, or we'd have to hijack a train for a special supply of carriage parts to upgrade our own, or literally go 'poison the well' in a gang stronghold.


Yeah, the gang upgrades are super useful, but they don't make me feel invested in the gang whatsoever. They could have just as easily put all of the gang upgrades in the regular skill tree, and left out the gang thing altogether.

I don't know, it just seems really strange to me that the game's marketing was SUPER heavy on the Rooks (even the box art, with its "Welcome to the Family" tagline and host of random Rooks the same size as Evie on the front) when they're such a comically superfluous influence in the game. The civilians who grab guards in ACB make for a good analogy, actually, because I feel exactly the same amount of connection to the Rooks as I did those random civilians on the street, and the Rooks are supposed to be my loyal employees who answer directly to me. I just never could buy the fact that Jacob just popped up in the city one day and IMMEDIATELY had a gang at his back as soon as he got the notion.

You know what would've been cool, if we actually had to take on missions for some of the upgrades. For example we would have to infiltrate some factory before we could bribe the Blighter repairman to leave the country, or we'd have to hijack a train for a special supply of carriage parts to upgrade our own, or literally go 'poison the well' in a gang stronghold.

When the achievements leaked something about loyalty, I was expecting this to be tied to your gang, but soon found out it was nothing more than a way to get rewards. I swear if next year truly is some sort of multiplayer expansion for this game, it's likely they'll be working on the rooks a lot, so y'know, we can have gang wars with eachother.

RaggedTyper
10-29-2015, 02:49 PM
I would say that the two of them together are better than their composite parts. If Jacob and Evie were individually the stars of their own game they wouldn't be interesting, which makes them weak. Adewale without Edward is pretty interesting for example. Haytham and Connor are pretty interesting separately and together. Desmond and Subject 16 are pretty interesting separately and together. Not so with these two.

I agree but I don't think that's a bad thing. If Evie and Jacob were strong alone then we wouldn't need dual protaonists and they would cannabalise each other. They're awesome because of how they play off each other.

cawatrooper9
10-29-2015, 05:00 PM
Yeah, the gang upgrades are super useful, but they don't make me feel invested in the gang whatsoever. They could have just as easily put all of the gang upgrades in the regular skill tree, and left out the gang thing altogether.

I don't know, it just seems really strange to me that the game's marketing was SUPER heavy on the Rooks (even the box art, with its "Welcome to the Family" tagline and host of random Rooks the same size as Evie on the front) when they're such a comically superfluous influence in the game. The civilians who grab guards in ACB make for a good analogy, actually, because I feel exactly the same amount of connection to the Rooks as I did those random civilians on the street, and the Rooks are supposed to be my loyal employees who answer directly to me. I just never could buy the fact that Jacob just popped up in the city one day and IMMEDIATELY had a gang at his back as soon as he got the notion.

Yeah, I'd agree that the development isn't as strong- I wish there were missions specifically about the founding of the Rooks, much like Ezio's missions of gathering followers in ACB and ACR.

I guess I'm not too bothered that Jacob treats his gang like tools rather than people because it fits his character. Ezio enjoyed taking on trainees because that was who he was, a mentor. Jacob just wants to gather up people, start a gang, and bust in some faces.

AquilaTempestas
10-29-2015, 10:22 PM
Some things I thought could've been done better in relation to story:

- Giving the Rooks some personality. Even names would be nice. In this game, they're just dull characters who get in your way and make things more difficult. At least in the trailers they had a voice. I felt this was one of the big disappointments of Syndicate. As other posters have already mentioned, I would've liked to have heard their stories - why are they so eager to support Jacob and Evie? I would've liked to have seen some sort of conflict between the Rooks as well - maybe trying to work out if they should trust Jacob or not. Some sort of depth would've been nice.

- George. I would've liked to have known more about him, or at least have him show up in London at the end of the game to check up on the twins. Wasn't he supposed to be their mentor?

- Actual disagreements between the siblings. They had a few spats. but nothing major. I was half-expecting Evie to try and reason with her brother. A few discussions about the Creed, some more background information on their father's teachings, maybe Jacob storming off in a fit of rage after an argument... What we saw in the game was 'angst' influenced by Disney 'angst' stuff. Where was the depth? I would've liked to have seen Jacob questioning the ways of the Creed, and justifying why there's nothing wrong with his ways. I also would've liked Jacob actually having a few chats with the Rooks. He is supposed to be the leader, but I certainly didn't feel like he was.

- Twin backgrounds. How did Evie become Master? How come Jacob isn't a Master? Why does Jacob prefer fighting the way he does, rather than following the Creed's teachings? What were their early years like? So many questions, yet none were answered. With a deeper story, Jacob and Evie could;ve easily been the most charismatic and interesting characters in the series. Maybe Ubisoft spent more time on the actual game play and rushed the story instead.

- Henry. Why was Henry even in this game? I feel like they kinda just added him there to be Evie's love interest. Again, there was no chemistry between the two at all and felt very forced. No development. A few short scenes with one or two lines of dialogue does not equate to 'a strong loving relationship'

- Villains. I thought Roth was the most interesting. The other villains didn't do much, nor had much story to tell.

Out of all the AC games, Syndicate had the most promising story - there was so much potential for drama on all levels, but nothing memorable happened.