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dvdk1940
04-16-2004, 04:37 PM
I am very interested in sub sims like SH2 and SH3. But i have never seen a SIMULATOR like the ones used in Flight Simulator. I think the Dev. team for SH3 should look at making you the captain and allowing you to walk to each station in a total 3D enviroment.
I would also like to see more gagues to be used as eye candy. Such as temp. gauges in the engine room to let you know when your going to overheat, etc..
I'd like to know what others think about this.

dvdk1940
04-16-2004, 04:37 PM
I am very interested in sub sims like SH2 and SH3. But i have never seen a SIMULATOR like the ones used in Flight Simulator. I think the Dev. team for SH3 should look at making you the captain and allowing you to walk to each station in a total 3D enviroment.
I would also like to see more gagues to be used as eye candy. Such as temp. gauges in the engine room to let you know when your going to overheat, etc..
I'd like to know what others think about this.

CB..
04-16-2004, 08:53 PM
in common with msn's flight sims will there allso be a commonly understood and available model file format in use for the games ships, subs etc?
this would surely ensure the games longevity and moddability with folks enhancing the game with new models to keep pace with current developments..not to mention the vast possibiities of converting the game to different eras and types of naval warfare, WW1 subs...american/italian subs...napoleonic war galleons ye gawds..the world yur ocean with the right model file format...so yep theres a lot to be gained from following some of the normal flight sim precepts.all in all either way it certainly sounds great so far....ive allways had a soft spot for role-playing games ala Final fantasy etc and wanted to have some of the stat building role-play interactions in a sim! great stuff...thats me happy anyhow...just dont play strange and bouncy musak evry time yu go into battle he!!! he!!
and one final thought no red targeting triangle PLEASE..yu have no idea just how much this ruins the game for anything other than arcade play...or at least have it an option or at the very least allow modders to access the graphic by storing as an external image file..

love the site!!!! im off to find some materia.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Egan2.0
04-17-2004, 12:16 PM
Yeah, the role playing element is something that gets overlooked so often in sims. I always enjoy sims that work hard on the atmospheric side as well as the technical which is something i really like about AOD. I can remember the first time i read a radio report asking Kreschmer to call in just after he was captured. little details like that make a heck of a difference.

From what i have read, the crew management in this looks great. I only hope that when you are transferred ( if it happens at all) to a new boat the new crew doesn't automatically have the stats of the old one. THat would be a great detail to have in the game. Perhaps even three month work ups in the Baltic? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

CB..
04-17-2004, 03:25 PM
Hi Egan!
yes if it is as involved and interesting as it's described. then it allso really cranks up the realism as far as your atitude towards risk managment during attacks...whereas in SH2 yur inclined to have on occasional a "oh well im dead doesnt really matter, no harm done" sense about things which gets frustrating , with the loss of yur entire crew and stats and work involved in evolving a good officer etc then it does matter....so it makes the sim more realistic because it widens and adds depth to the risks involved in making attacks...it's as close as can be (and would ever want to be) i reckon to "real life" yu really wont want to "die" , folks tend to think of realism as turning circles..top speeds ...gun ranges etc..i actual fact (beyond historical curiosity and the desire to have things right) they are the least important aspects of realism (ball park figure will do the job as long as it's balanced fairly per sides) ;
genuine realism comes from emotional conection to the game....via role-playing and genuinely felt and meaningful (in gameplay terms) RISK ,
it's this area that supplies the real heart of any games realims , the rest is just obsessing about what are in the end really rather minor details..so the castle is i knot faster in game than in real life? nonsense complete nonsense in gameplay terms .."stop the war, i demand a recount " that vessel has broken the rules , it's a war.. nonsense....absolute nonsense !!! i being a bit over the top here but in the end it's fairly close to the truth (as far as a game/simulation goes; everything is relative to the sim world created)

so it's the risks involed that create the tension and realism...in a far more meaningful way than tech details on turning circles etc..
if yu die it should be more than just a pain in the neck, yu need to desperately want not to "die" in order to create genuine realism;
frankly in SH2 yu don't give a damn..yu risk a replay and thats it

BRAVO UBI EUROPE!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

[This message was edited by CB.. on Sat April 17 2004 at 02:41 PM.]

Egan2.0
04-17-2004, 03:37 PM
Also its going to be interested seeing how the dev team incorporate 'abstracts' like morale. I meen, are the crew gonna start getting moody if you've been on patrol for six weeks in heavy winter seas and haven't sunk anything? What about the effect on them if your ordered past Gibralter. Lol, that would be cool but probably a bit more advanced than what we will get.

But here is something else. Will the crew improve if we run drills on board. Say we practice Crash dives, will the operation get faster? will it tail of if we over do it? that would be very cool to have; you would have a real reason to work the crew when not in direct action but have to make sure not to push it too far...

The more I think about it the more this crew management thing seems very interesting. At least, the possibility of it does.

CB..
04-17-2004, 03:54 PM
yes hopefully stuff along those lines will happen , mind yu from readin the discussion on the dev page of the site it actually sound far more invovling than just performance improving with training etc...mentions crew having individual service records etc names etc, this mean that if a crew member dies , thats the last yu'll ever see of him ...no respawning him as another crew member etc.., thinking beyond the performance improvements to emotional connections to the game it should finally mean the end of " DAH DAH!!!

"QUAKE DEATH EVENT SYNDROME"

oh im dead ..oh im alive again..oh im dead. oh i'm alive again..oh i'm dead , oh 'm alive again...repeat untill satiated...

whew what a relief, save that messing about for multi-player , "i'm the king of the castle" matches..yawn

Egan2.0
04-17-2004, 04:48 PM
Heh! Yeah, I wonder how complex it will get? d'you think we'll be able to transfer our 'Hitler Youth' XO off the ship or request replacements?

I can't wait to see whether we will get an engineer called Johann who freaks out on his ninth patrol! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Seriously though, you make a very good point about death of crew men. I'm wondering about the repurcussions of a death on your crew? How will they react if one of their number is killed, will there be noticable effect on morale?

Jeez, the more I think about this crew stuff the more possibilities spring into my head.

The Dev team should be congratulated on taking this step, no matter how it turns out. For my money its something pretty ground breaking and if it works, well, we have a winner on our hands!

CB..
04-17-2004, 07:25 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gifthis is absolutely daft to expect of course(?) but i know i'd love to see the very realistic (more realism!!!) boat chess tournaments , now with the 3d crew members who yu now know by name (wonder if they'll have unique face textures/uniform styles of clothes mannerisms etc as well? voice sound effects? could they build a voice synth into the game so it could red phrses from a text file and turn them into audible spoken conversations..it's do-able be great this as if it referenced an external text file yu could edit it and add your own conversations lol wonderfully endless fun that would be, and interesting too)


being able to during the long journeys out and in to sit at a table and play chess with variuos crew members as yu go along would be fantastic especailly if the engineer keeps beating you !!! yu could check the rankings on the boat notice board and read ships newspapers written by the crew..that really would be something to create a genuine "life" on board your boat, http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

LtBen
04-19-2004, 05:52 PM
heh, we could grow to hate our First Officer rom the way he eats. Hell, maybe you could load in a MIDI file and lyrics into the game and play Tipperary http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Going on with morale, it could also get worse with food quality, so if you've been on patrol for too long and the bread goes to mildew they'll be pretty pissed and reluctant.

One thing I didn't like about SHII was the robot crew. They never needed food or water, just oxygen.

They could also flip out if pushed over the edge, or pass out if worked too long. Maybe have a shellshock and panic effect, after all most of the Hunt was a mind game.

CDragon
04-19-2004, 08:56 PM
If you can save the game, and the save game feature actually works right http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, then resurrecting dead crewmen would be like time travel.

"Oh, I've lost my IWO Dieter and crewman Franz to that airplane I didn't see in time. But thats OK! I'll just step into the Edelweiss FuBar 650A time machine (courtesy of the folks at Castle Wolfie)..."

baaaaaaazaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap <-- sound of spinning hard disk as last save is reloaded

"Dieter! Franz! Below now! DIVE THE BOAT! Whew!"

Kejotikk
04-20-2004, 05:07 AM
Well of course you can load an older save, but I and many others who play AOD only save while in port. And some of the real hardcore realism freaks will restart the whole campaign when killed. So the people who want to ruin the realism by saving and loading alot can do that, and the people who want realism won't. That's how it's always been.

Drebbel
04-20-2004, 05:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Well of course you can load an older save<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess you never played SH2 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Drebbel

The Submarines of the Royal Netherlands Navy 1906 - 2004
http://www.DutchSubmarines.com/
We have a NEW FORUM:
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Kejotikk
04-20-2004, 06:45 AM
I did play SH2 actually and I know the save function was messed up but I doubt that will happen again with SH3. Although I wouldn't mind not being able to save while out at sea I know there are people who want to and it's always good to have a choice. Like I said in my previous post, the ones who want realism simply won't save and load just because something went wrong.

Egan2.0
04-20-2004, 10:52 AM
I find it really usefull to save whenever I want, especially on a long patrol. Strangely enough i don't think i have ever loaded from a save if i get killed in SH2, usually I sorta feel i deserve it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I do it all the time in FPS games though.

CB..
04-20-2004, 03:37 PM
I'm with Egan on this definitely, a working/reliable save function is pretty fundamental to any computer game , especailly in a a game that even using copious handfulls of time excelleration can comsume in excess of four hours per mission, it's just not rational to not be able to save for the purpose of being able to rejoin the mission the next day that's the main slant of the save function in a game like this..forget the reloading if yu die stuff , im sure it could be arranged for the save game to deleted if the player dies...SH2 actually does this by default..(a bit extreme perhaps tho as we all have the brain to be able make the choice)

SailorSteve
04-20-2004, 03:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kejotikk:
Like I said in my previous post, the ones who want realism simply won't save and load just because something went wrong.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree about "rescuing" a campaign reloading a saved game, and you're right about those of us who want realism. I like to play at a fairly low time compression, and I like war patrols that take all day; but sometimes you just have to do something else (like go to work!).

HKLE
04-21-2004, 12:53 AM
Hi folks

Well I did AOE and never really got aquainted with SHII - the save function was a nice one with AOE.

Going back to the top item - I would really like to see the possibility to walk around the boat even during combat. I think it would add a lot to the atmosphere. I am with the folks who are more into role play - this would make THE difference to all prior U-boat simulations in my opinion.

As far as I have read the FAQ, we shall be fixed to the usual stations again ....

Well - my wish lists includes the possibility to assign keys myself, a better AI than SHII and a campaign system like AOE had it. Oh - and the time acceleration should stop, when action is about to happen - like in AOE. SHII did not have this to my knowledge.

Drebbel
04-21-2004, 01:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As far as I have read the FAQ, we shall be fixed to the usual stations again <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you read about the conning deck ?

What the heck is that ? The little attack scope deck inside the conning tower ?

It coulkd mean that SHIII will be the first uboat sim that has the attack scope in the right place, inside the conning tower !


Drebbel

The Submarines of the Royal Netherlands Navy 1906 - 2004
http://www.DutchSubmarines.com/
We have a NEW FORUM:
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HKLE
04-21-2004, 01:22 AM
Hi drebbel

Well - no. I was trying to make a general point here - not being fixed to some rooms (even with 3D environment - but AOD already had some of it - like giving commands directly onto the instruments) but being able to walk around - from station to station (when they are accessible and not locked during combat).

The time acceleration is important for me, as I ususally do not have too much playing time at home ....

Shan_Hackett
04-29-2004, 06:02 AM
Oucha! "Time compression", Bah Humbug! thats for weenies. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

"Seriously". i never use time compression, its all played in "Real-Time". Which is where the ingame save feature IS needed. At least for me. I maybe an insane hardcore gamer, but i still need food, sleep, oh! And beable to go and out earn some pennies... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Willey
04-29-2004, 01:56 PM
C'mon, you don't play all those boring weeks in real time until you get a convoy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Although the encounters / events are much more immersive in RT. Something like one and a half hour of DC dodging, or sailing into the port in RT - it's just better.

Shan_Hackett
04-29-2004, 02:47 PM
Oh yea! Real-time junkie here. In the interum i'll pick up a good book (while at the desktop), be on the phone to work collegues/friends/family, small talk with the wife.
I exist in the real world, and have a life. it just revolves around the backdtop of submarining. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

jagtigermk2
04-30-2004, 12:20 PM
You telling me if you wanted to reach the east coast of America you would do it all in real time. (lol) I admire your hardcore gaming attitude.

Shan_Hackett
04-30-2004, 04:50 PM
I used to do deep sea fishing off the Irish coast, average voyage would last 3 months.
i used to sit on the stern and watch the ocean..The relaxing effects is just awesome. U have to be there to appreicate it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

SH2 after some graphical mods is good, but the water effecs of SH3, looks almost real, the best rendition of any ocean to date in a computer game.So real time is the only way for me.

u think thats mad, i obtained the PA mod for SH2, the pacific is 10 times bigger than the Atlantic...im in heaven http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

SailorSteve
04-30-2004, 08:23 PM
I served on a destroyer in the Pacific, and there are a huge variety of things to see, most of which I don't expect to live to see modelled in a game. That said, I'll use time compression to get anywhere I need to. Real time during the combat phase is pushing my available time limits.

______________________________
Always keep you clothes and your weapons where you can find them in the dark.

Shan_Hackett
05-01-2004, 07:16 PM
Im a hardcore nutcase, but having a time compression feature is essential, at least an option at the descretion of the player. Some like me (Dying breed) flat out refuse to use such a feature, but to the normal folks out there, with busy lives, a game of this genre just wouldn't sell without time compression.

Drebbel
05-02-2004, 01:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Some like me (Dying breed) flat out refuse to use such a feature<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you sail real time from Kiel to the US coast ???

How many months does it take you to complete a mission ?

Drebbel

The Submarines of the Royal Netherlands Navy 1906 - 2004
http://www.DutchSubmarines.com/
We have a NEW FORUM:
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FredFireFox
05-02-2004, 02:12 AM
what? you folks want to do all those missions in real time?? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif just immagine you would survive every single mission from 1939 till 1945 - you would need 6 years to complete the campagin once! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Shan_Hackett
05-02-2004, 07:29 PM
yup! Still not completed SH2 yet, and i got PA for it, thats me setup for the next 10 yrs http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Im a simple man, with simple needs. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Average mission, from Kiel/Wilhelmshaven, to the Western approaches, takes any thing from 6-8 weeks, depending on weather, contacts, damage, and supplies... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

SailorSteve
05-02-2004, 09:23 PM
I have just the opposite problem: I run parallel missions. I'm currently in mid 1941 with one each of the SHII campaigns (original, Second and Aces) and two AOD careers, all run by date. Once I reach December '41 I'll be adding SHI, PA and Destroyer command. I try to do each mission in order by date.

And people think YOU'RE weird! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

______________________________
Always keep you clothes and your weapons where you can find them in the dark.

Shan_Hackett
05-04-2004, 10:09 PM
LMAO! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

Thats way too much of a work-load, even for me. multiple careers ongoing all at the same time...Memeber of menser, or just a sadicist!?
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

SailorSteve
05-05-2004, 08:08 AM
No work at all, really. I just keep a sheet of paper with each captain's name and the date his last mission ended. I started it back when I played Red Baron and not much else. I'd look through the logbook for the pilot with the oldest mission, and I'd fly him next. Then I started doing the same thing with the original Silent Hunter. If one guy dies or retires I replace him with a new career starting that month.

______________________________
Always keep you clothes and your weapons where you can find them in the dark.

CDragon
05-05-2004, 08:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SailorSteve:
No work at all, really. I just keep a sheet of paper with each captain's name and the date his last mission ended. I started it back when I played Red Baron and not much else. I'd look through the logbook for the pilot with the oldest mission, and I'd fly him next. Then I started doing the same thing with the original Silent Hunter. If one guy dies or retires I replace him with a new career starting that month.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Holy Pen & Paper! I thought I was the only one who used old school charms to enchant my online world! I've done manual dynamic campaigns with SHII, using the original Shell to keep track of my progress, Kriegstanz to generate the missions, and my own ego-centric imagination for everything else!

Hfael
05-05-2004, 11:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dvdk1940:
I would also like to see more gagues to be used as eye candy. Such as temp. gauges in the engine room to let you know when your going to overheat, etc..
I'd like to know what others think about this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the idea of being able to wander around the sub is nice, but in general I'm not in favor of it for two reasons:

1) It's a *less* accurate simulation. You really think the captain of a sub races back and forth from station to station checking each gauge and dial, manning each station in turn to run the ship? That's what crew are for.

2) Wandering around my simulated ship without seeing crew hard at work would hurt the immersion factor, not help it.

In a totally ideal world, sure, it'd be cool to wander around the ship and interact with the crew, who were hard at work (or snoozing, or whatever). But given the compromises that would probably have to be made in development I'd rather just have the style that we're used to as opposed to a poorly done virtual implementation.

Pooks

CDragon
05-05-2004, 01:04 PM
My ideal virtual submarine would have a crew, and an animated crew at that, and would allow me to wander the boat. The only difference would be that my ideal virtual submarine would not allow me to operate it directly. Everything would be done through orders to the crew. As captain, I could operate the periscope, use the navigation table, it's instruments, and it's charts, keep the log, shoot a pistol, etc., I would do the captain thing. To do anything else, I would address the relevant member of the crew. I imagine the interface to have a little "chat window" like Multiplayer games have, but I'd be talking to the virtual crew, not another player. Addressing a crewman would be simply a matter of directly my order to him, either by facing him and being in close proximity, or prefacing my order with his name. Prefacing an order with a name would be a way of "shouting out" an order. Or you could create "macro" orders, along the lines of "ALARM!", where everyone knows what they're suppose to do and they do it. The speed and accuracy of the a crewman carrying out your orders would be dependent on his morale level, his experience level, and his level of training. Practive counts as training, so practicing your dives, your shooting, and all that would actually improve your crew. The more they do it, the better they become.

Of course, for those who don't type 80 words a minute, there'll be the voice command interface... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

CB..
05-05-2004, 04:15 PM
like it CD'

this would alow each player to actually develop his own style of command...and in fact the sim would become his own personal simulation of HIS career as a uboat commander ..rather than a generic sim where every-one is really role-playing the same "one size fits all" commander..

HeibgesU999
05-05-2004, 04:42 PM
I like it too CD. Maybe, like in Iron Coffins, you can relieve crew-members for poor performance.

And Shan you are a madman!!!! I always play RT when in contact with enemy, but you are head and shoulders above me with a RT crossing of the Atlantic.

Lets hope the game meets our high expectations.

Shan_Hackett
05-05-2004, 05:40 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif